If you use the optional rules from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, wizards get Divination. Aside from that, wizards don't get any 4th level spells that seem appropriate for use as rituals, most of them are either outright combat spells, or else they have effects that get improved by upcasting (like Private Sanctum). Nothing really looks like it should have been a ritual, being able to cast, say, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound without using a spell slot every time you go to bed would be really powerful.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
As far as I can tell nothing in the rules says you can only cast a ritual spell as a ritual.
Phantom Stead takes a minute to cast normally but 11 minutes to cast as a ritual.
But it does say that any spell cast as a ritual is cast at its lowest level because ritual spells do not use a spell slot and thus can not take advantage of the 'up casting' rule. Pretty much the same as scrolls.
Though I can see no merit in having a ritual spell with a duration is less than the time it takes to cast the spell.
Ritual spells are always powerful for their level, if you have the time to use them.
As far as I can tell nothing in the rules says you can only cast a ritual spell as a ritual.
Phantom Stead takes a minute to cast normally but 11 minutes to cast as a ritual.
But it does say that any spell cast as a ritual is cast at its lowest level because ritual spells do not use a spell slot and thus can not take advantage of the 'up casting' rule. Pretty much the same as scrolls.
Though I can see no merit in having a ritual spell with a duration is less than the time it takes to cast the spell.
Ritual spells are always powerful for their level, if you have the time to use them.
Rituals
Certain spells have a special tag: ritual. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or the spell can be cast as a ritual. The ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal. It also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level.
To cast a spell as a ritual, a spellcaster must have a feature that grants the ability to do so. The cleric and the druid, for example, have such a feature. The caster must also have the spell prepared or on his or her list of spells known, unless the character’s ritual feature specifies otherwise, as the wizard’s does.
I can see that some of their 4th level spells could be ritual spells.
Could you give examples of 4th level spells that could be useful as ritual spells as well as wouldn't be made OP if they were ritual spells?
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I think spells such as Conjure Minor Elementals could be a good candidate for a ritual spell, if you have some time then there is a themnatic, and dare i say "stereotypical" reason for them to be rituals. You could apply that to any spell that animates, summons or conjures a creature or item from Animate Dead upwards.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
A summon spell that has a creature that fights for you is a combat spell no matter how you cast it.
Here are spells that have a casting time of 1 action or bonus action and are rituals. Most are definitely not combat spells and more utility. I didn’t go through all of them but things like Silence can be a good combat spell or utility.
You'd never cast Conjure Minor Elementals in combat, having a casting time of 1 minute. The objection, I think, is that it would allow you to have those combat goodies effectively for free - certainly after short and long rests.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Why would you use a combat spell as ritual? Or a ritual spell in combat?
Locate creature.
Just because a spell can or is used in combat doesn't mean it must be only used in combat.
Nobody made that claim. Unseen servant is not a combat spell but could be used to pull a lever during combat to drop a chandelier on an enemy. Silence can be used in combat to shut down a spell caster or used as a ritual out of combat in a stealth mission while trying to break down a door or smash something without alerting anyone nearby. But something that summons a creature specifically to fight for you is a combat spell. If you choose to use an earth elemental as a butler during downtime that’s up to you. But it’s not reason enough to make it a ritual.
Here's why summoning spells should never be rituals: because any time you get at least ten minutes of prep time, you can simply send some disposable minions to trigger any traps while you remain safely away from them and bypass any puzzles or obstacles that might get in your way. Ritual casting is meant for spells that are useful in very narrow circumstances, not spells you'd want to spam all day long.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
A summon spell that has a creature that fights for you is a combat spell no matter how you cast it.
Here are spells that have a casting time of 1 action or bonus action and are rituals. Most are definitely not combat spells and more utility. I didn’t go through all of them but things like Silence can be a good combat spell or utility.
But that's the point. Summoned creature(s) can do things other than fight for you, and if you aren't going to use it in combat when casting time matters, why not make it a ritual cast?
If you want to make a balance argument that it should still cost a spell slot to conjure a fire elemental to melt through a metal door, or a blink dog for your halfling to ride around on for an hour, that's fine. Ritual summonings and conjurings are a very weird absence from the game though
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Here's why summoning spells should never be rituals: because any time you get at least ten minutes of prep time, you can simply send some disposable minions to trigger any traps while you remain safely away from them and bypass any puzzles or obstacles that might get in your way.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
A summon spell that has a creature that fights for you is a combat spell no matter how you cast it.
Here are spells that have a casting time of 1 action or bonus action and are rituals. Most are definitely not combat spells and more utility. I didn’t go through all of them but things like Silence can be a good combat spell or utility.
But that's the point. Summoned creature(s) can do things other than fight for you, and if you aren't going to use it in combat when casting time matters, why not make it a ritual cast?
If you want to make a balance argument that it should still cost a spell slot to conjure a fire elemental to melt through a metal door, or a blink dog for your halfling to ride around on for an hour, that's fine. Ritual summonings and conjurings are a very weird absence from the game though
Sure summoned creatures can do more than just fight for you, but when their primary purpose, as described in their spell description, is combat then it is a balance issue.
You think it is fine (and not overpowered) to have your highest level summons up and running 24 hours a day because once per hour (or whatever their duration is) you can spend 10 minutes summoning them over and over?
A summon spell that has a creature that fights for you is a combat spell no matter how you cast it.
Here are spells that have a casting time of 1 action or bonus action and are rituals. Most are definitely not combat spells and more utility. I didn’t go through all of them but things like Silence can be a good combat spell or utility.
But that's the point. Summoned creature(s) can do things other than fight for you, and if you aren't going to use it in combat when casting time matters, why not make it a ritual cast?
Because they're powerful spells already so being able to use them all the time without worrying about running out of spell slots would be crazy OP.
Here's why summoning spells should never be rituals: because any time you get at least ten minutes of prep time, you can simply send some disposable minions to trigger any traps while you remain safely away from them and bypass any puzzles or obstacles that might get in your way.
Who would ever have 10 minutes an hour to cast a ritual spell over and over?
Plus you still need all the material components for it each time.
In the end it's no different than having a stack of scrolls you made ahead of time.
Conjure animals, no M component. Conjure Fey, no M component. Conjure Minor Elemental, no M component, conjure celestial, no M component, conjure elemental, has M component but doesn’t say they are consumed, one time cost (maybe the burning incense would have to be replaced but spell doesn’t specify) etc, etc.
Not the cost you are assuming for some spells
Edit: some groups take short rests after every combat so 10 minutes every hour could be done with some groups and wouldn’t be looked at unkindly.
I must have missed something. New to 5th edition.
Why are there no 4th level ritual spells for wizards?
I can see that some of their 4th level spells could be ritual spells.
I must be missing something obvious.
Thanks for any answer.
If you use the optional rules from Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, wizards get Divination. Aside from that, wizards don't get any 4th level spells that seem appropriate for use as rituals, most of them are either outright combat spells, or else they have effects that get improved by upcasting (like Private Sanctum). Nothing really looks like it should have been a ritual, being able to cast, say, Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound without using a spell slot every time you go to bed would be really powerful.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
As far as I can tell nothing in the rules says you can only cast a ritual spell as a ritual.
Phantom Stead takes a minute to cast normally but 11 minutes to cast as a ritual.
But it does say that any spell cast as a ritual is cast at its lowest level because ritual spells do not use a spell slot and thus can not take advantage of the 'up casting' rule. Pretty much the same as scrolls.
Though I can see no merit in having a ritual spell with a duration is less than the time it takes to cast the spell.
Ritual spells are always powerful for their level, if you have the time to use them.
Rituals
Certain spells have a special tag: ritual. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or the spell can be cast as a ritual. The ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal. It also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level.
To cast a spell as a ritual, a spellcaster must have a feature that grants the ability to do so. The cleric and the druid, for example, have such a feature. The caster must also have the spell prepared or on his or her list of spells known, unless the character’s ritual feature specifies otherwise, as the wizard’s does.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
The duration starts after the ritual is complete, not when it starts.
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Could you give examples of 4th level spells that could be useful as ritual spells as well as wouldn't be made OP if they were ritual spells?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think spells such as Conjure Minor Elementals could be a good candidate for a ritual spell, if you have some time then there is a themnatic, and dare i say "stereotypical" reason for them to be rituals. You could apply that to any spell that animates, summons or conjures a creature or item from Animate Dead upwards.
Given that such spells are combat spells? No.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
They wouldn't be if cast as a ritual
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Why would you use a combat spell as ritual? Or a ritual spell in combat?
Locate creature.
Just because a spell can or is used in combat doesn't mean it must be only used in combat.
A summon spell that has a creature that fights for you is a combat spell no matter how you cast it.
Here are spells that have a casting time of 1 action or bonus action and are rituals. Most are definitely not combat spells and more utility. I didn’t go through all of them but things like Silence can be a good combat spell or utility.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
You'd never cast Conjure Minor Elementals in combat, having a casting time of 1 minute. The objection, I think, is that it would allow you to have those combat goodies effectively for free - certainly after short and long rests.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Nobody made that claim. Unseen servant is not a combat spell but could be used to pull a lever during combat to drop a chandelier on an enemy. Silence can be used in combat to shut down a spell caster or used as a ritual out of combat in a stealth mission while trying to break down a door or smash something without alerting anyone nearby.
But something that summons a creature specifically to fight for you is a combat spell. If you choose to use an earth elemental as a butler during downtime that’s up to you. But it’s not reason enough to make it a ritual.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Here's why summoning spells should never be rituals: because any time you get at least ten minutes of prep time, you can simply send some disposable minions to trigger any traps while you remain safely away from them and bypass any puzzles or obstacles that might get in your way. Ritual casting is meant for spells that are useful in very narrow circumstances, not spells you'd want to spam all day long.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
But that's the point. Summoned creature(s) can do things other than fight for you, and if you aren't going to use it in combat when casting time matters, why not make it a ritual cast?
If you want to make a balance argument that it should still cost a spell slot to conjure a fire elemental to melt through a metal door, or a blink dog for your halfling to ride around on for an hour, that's fine. Ritual summonings and conjurings are a very weird absence from the game though
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
unseen servant says hi
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Sure summoned creatures can do more than just fight for you, but when their primary purpose, as described in their spell description, is combat then it is a balance issue.
You think it is fine (and not overpowered) to have your highest level summons up and running 24 hours a day because once per hour (or whatever their duration is) you can spend 10 minutes summoning them over and over?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Because they're powerful spells already so being able to use them all the time without worrying about running out of spell slots would be crazy OP.
Unseen servant is far more restrictive than any summoning spell.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Who would ever have 10 minutes an hour to cast a ritual spell over and over?
Plus you still need all the material components for it each time.
In the end it's no different than having a stack of scrolls you made ahead of time.
Conjure animals, no M component. Conjure Fey, no M component. Conjure Minor Elemental, no M component, conjure celestial, no M component, conjure elemental, has M component but doesn’t say they are consumed, one time cost (maybe the burning incense would have to be replaced but spell doesn’t specify) etc, etc.
Not the cost you are assuming for some spells
Edit: some groups take short rests after every combat so 10 minutes every hour could be done with some groups and wouldn’t be looked at unkindly.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?