So I am playing a Kensei Monk that is lvl 9. My party and I are in this massive dungeon and at one point I had a charm imbued on me that caused my character to grow to over 20 ft tall. At one point prior to growing so tall I remembered our DM describing this massive hammer (9ft long) that was laying on the ground. With this in mind I chose my next Kensei weapon to be a warhammer since I had not chosen my level 6 Kensei weapon and doubled back to pick the hammer up to use. After I did this because by that point I was big enough and strong enough with a strength over 20 he said alright but it is not a monk weapon. To which I said but it is a Kensei weapon because of my abilities. He then became a little flustered about it and said no I won't allow that, I then said but my abilities allow me to do this and my character is more than large enough to easily handle this hammer. He then replied with alright fine but I'm going to crank up the difficulties on all your encounters. Mind you we are underleveled for most of our encounters already. BARELY surviving most of them with 2/3 of our party almost on the brink of going insane due to magical sickness so I decided alright screw it I will just leave the hammer then because even though it will do good damage it won't turn the tide that much. My question with all this is is he being reasonable? I felt it was a really cool moment and that things fit perfectly for this really neat thing to happen. If I had not found that charm or had not remembered him describing the hammer it would have not even been an option and then I felt really shut down afterwards.
1) Was the massive hammer (9ft long) explicitly stated to be a "warhammer." Not all hammers in 5e are warhammers, even those usually available to PCs. If the DM wanted, they could have called it something like a "Dire Hammer" and made it ineligible that way
2) The DM ultimately seemed okay with you using the hammer the way you wanted, but in that same vein you did something that surprised them. It is entirely within the DM's rights to rebalance encounters on the fly to make sure they still fit the difficulty they envisioned (within reason).
3) Asking random people on the internet if they agree with your DMs rulings is sometimes in bad form. I appreciate you giving your story, but at this point we have only heard one side.
Overall, you had a clever idea. Your DM pushed back on it a little, but ultimately allowed you to do exactly what you wanted. The only thing they said they would do in response was alter the difficulty of the encounter to account for a variable they had not originally planned for, which is within their right. So I would say they are being reasonable. Ruling & changing things on the fly is entirely what a DM is supposed to do.
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It was not handled well, but there's a bunch of converging homebrew here that was making his job really hard.
The first part was a charm that made you huge and gave you crazy strength. That's not an official thing and messing that much with PC size and strength is always going to have complications.
The second part was spotlighting this giant hammer that no one could use. The game does not support players using oversize weapons even when they are temporarily made larger - look how small the damage bonuses are from enlarge/reduce or the Rune Knights embiggen feature. Giants do 6d6 with their hammer because they are monsters that need to do 6d6 to challenge a party of a certain level. Giving PCs access to that same kind of damage breaks the game in all sorts of ways. In general it's good to think of damage values as a property of a monster, not the weapon it's wielding.
So I'd say the DM screwed up and is just not being very graceful in their backpedaling. I would have let you wield the hammer, but I probably would have given it like +1d6 damage over a normal hammer or something. But really I wouldn't have set up the circumstances that led to this in the first place.
I understand it is not the best look I DM quite a bit. I just wanted to know if I was in the wrong headspace or not. I understand it is within his right to do it but to almost threaten the players with jumping the difficulty seemed wrong to me.
Everything was legitmate and was in the module. According to him at least. No homebrew, we are playing through the Rime of the Frostmaiden right now.
Unless the module itself presented rules on players wielding that hammer (which it sounds like it didn't) then it comes down to the DM to determine how it will work mechanically, including simply barring players from using it for the sake of balance. Your DM went another route and (after some arguing) let you have the hammer and use it as a monk weapon, but also was open and clear they would change the balance, likely since the module may not have accounted for the party having a 9ft hammer.
I would also like to point out that a weapon has to lack the Heavy and Special properties to be kensei weapon. While normal-sized warhammers fit the bill, I am pretty sure this 9 ft long hammer would have the Heavy property.
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It was not handled well, but there's a bunch of converging homebrew here that was making his job really hard.
I'd agree with scatterbraind's assessment in that your DM seems to be more indelicate in handling the situation versus being unreasonable. Again, we only have your point of view and interpretation of said situation, but he seemed to be unprepared for the connection of having a character grow to such giant size (and strength) and then intend to use the massive hammer that was previously introduced. It's a clever concept on your part, but clever ideas aren't always well received in the spur of the moment. Not sure what benefits that particular hammer would provide, but DM had a "oh crap" moment and could have probably handled it more smoothly.
I would also like to point out that a weapon has to lack the Heavy and Special properties to be kensei weapon. While normal-sized warhammers fit the bill, I am pretty sure this 9 ft long hammer would have the Heavy property.
Also a very good point. If the enlarged character grew to 20+ feet tall, but the hammer is 9 feet long, I would honestly view the weapon as more of a maul than a warhammer. The big hammer would still be almost half the size of the giant character, so I'd expect it to have the heavy and two-handed properties.
So we only have your point of view, and while I'm not saying you are intentionally trying to make it seem like you are the "victim"? I think it's important for me specifically to note that as I talk about your post.
"I had not chosen my level 6 Kensei weapon" to me is the first red flag. The DM really should have forced you to choose this at level 6. Character features/upgrades are just that. They are something to be selected right then and not altered unless the DM says so or there is a rule that allows it to be modified at a future date. This specifically caused that issue.
The charm in Rime ends up giving you a strength of 23, but you're literally cursed with being 21 feet tall and 7700 pounds. Those are not advantages, those are detriments. Feeding someone that large is basically impossible without magical intervention, and sadly completely trivialized by a level 1 casting of Goodberry. You cannot get into a lot spaces and existing in towns is impossible for the purposes of standard lodging, which in Rime is a big deal since Winter is basically permanent.
There's a further comment about Kensei weapons requiring their weapon to not be Heavy which is 100% spot on. This basically goes to "I read the rules far enough to get my way" and not "Let's check the entire text to see what I can and cannot do". It's really important in these odd edge cases to do that EVEN if it invalidates your wants because it establishes that relationship of trust between you and the DM. If I'm taking your words at the spirit, it seems like you asked, the DM said no, you remembered you hadn't selected the L6 ability and then the DM started to get on edge and it snowballed. While a traditional Warhammer does not have the Heavy property, I would totally rule that a hammer taller than everyone but you and EVEN at you it would stand waist high is considered Heavy.
Finally, I do fault the DM for some language at the table too. Publicly showing frustration and then outwardly stating that he is going to make things harder is just bad form. You can totally make those adjustments without even saying anything and 8/10 times the party just won't notice. Saying it out loud though is going to create animosity.
All in? Shitty situation on all fronts by all sides. Go back to the person and explain your side. Then find a way to clear that affliction since being 21 feet tall in Rime is the best way to die.
"I had not chosen my level 6 Kensei weapon" to me is the first red flag. The DM really should have forced you to choose this at level 6. Character features/upgrades are just that. They are something to be selected right then and not altered unless the DM says so or there is a rule that allows it to be modified at a future date. This specifically caused that issue.
To be fair, this is a really silly thing to say. Obviously the DM would have said “hey, you forgot to pick something” if they noticed it, but, since they didn’t, it’s pretty darn obvious they did not see the error. Maybe they don’t micromanage character sheets or maybe they, like the OP, just missed it.
It isn’t a “red flag” to miss something on the character sheet - it’s a simple and common mistake many players make if they are new, using a different builder than they are used to, not paying attention to all the different tabs, etc. The proper thing to do is just say “choose it now,” even if they have meta knowledge that might change how they would have otherwise chosen it.
Which seems to be what happened here. The DM got slightly annoyed with the error, they came to an accord, everything worked out. Other than being stuck playing RotF instead of well-written content (I jest… sort of), it seems the problem resolved itself exactly how it should under a healthy player-DM relationship.
I feel like the DM could have handled it better, but so could you OP.
This whole scenario feels like something that should have been discussed ahead of time if you wanted to wield the hammer. What you did, even if it wasn't your intent, kind of comes across as trying to ambush your DM with the bit about your kensei mechanics and really putting them on the spot.
imo would have been better handled as just mentioning your ability up front and telling them you want to try wielding that hammer in between sessions and seeing if you two could work out a plan. It might have gone smoother doing it that way.
"I had not chosen my level 6 Kensei weapon" to me is the first red flag. The DM really should have forced you to choose this at level 6. Character features/upgrades are just that. They are something to be selected right then and not altered unless the DM says so or there is a rule that allows it to be modified at a future date. This specifically caused that issue.
To be fair, this is a really silly thing to say. Obviously the DM would have said “hey, you forgot to pick something” if they noticed it, but, since they didn’t, it’s pretty darn obvious they did not see the error. Maybe they don’t micromanage character sheets or maybe they, like the OP, just missed it.
It isn’t a “red flag” to miss something on the character sheet - it’s a simple and common mistake many players make if they are new, using a different builder than they are used to, not paying attention to all the different tabs, etc. The proper thing to do is just say “choose it now,” even if they have meta knowledge that might change how they would have otherwise chosen it.
Which seems to be what happened here. The DM got slightly annoyed with the error, they came to an accord, everything worked out. Other than being stuck playing RotF instead of well-written content (I jest… sort of), it seems the problem resolved itself exactly how it should under a healthy player-DM relationship.
It's a red flag for this specific scenario because it's what drove the interaction. I'm also trying to extrapolate in my head how they'd have missed it naturally since Rime does involve milestone leveling and the playtime from 6-9 isn't going to be one session. Which means going into the character builder multiple times and revising options which then means seeing this feature with its blue box altering you to "Hey you need to do stuff here".
I'd be curious to know what types of conversations preceeded this around this level 6 feature but we'll never know.
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So I am playing a Kensei Monk that is lvl 9. My party and I are in this massive dungeon and at one point I had a charm imbued on me that caused my character to grow to over 20 ft tall. At one point prior to growing so tall I remembered our DM describing this massive hammer (9ft long) that was laying on the ground. With this in mind I chose my next Kensei weapon to be a warhammer since I had not chosen my level 6 Kensei weapon and doubled back to pick the hammer up to use. After I did this because by that point I was big enough and strong enough with a strength over 20 he said alright but it is not a monk weapon. To which I said but it is a Kensei weapon because of my abilities. He then became a little flustered about it and said no I won't allow that, I then said but my abilities allow me to do this and my character is more than large enough to easily handle this hammer. He then replied with alright fine but I'm going to crank up the difficulties on all your encounters. Mind you we are underleveled for most of our encounters already. BARELY surviving most of them with 2/3 of our party almost on the brink of going insane due to magical sickness so I decided alright screw it I will just leave the hammer then because even though it will do good damage it won't turn the tide that much. My question with all this is is he being reasonable? I felt it was a really cool moment and that things fit perfectly for this really neat thing to happen. If I had not found that charm or had not remembered him describing the hammer it would have not even been an option and then I felt really shut down afterwards.
1) Was the massive hammer (9ft long) explicitly stated to be a "warhammer." Not all hammers in 5e are warhammers, even those usually available to PCs. If the DM wanted, they could have called it something like a "Dire Hammer" and made it ineligible that way
2) The DM ultimately seemed okay with you using the hammer the way you wanted, but in that same vein you did something that surprised them. It is entirely within the DM's rights to rebalance encounters on the fly to make sure they still fit the difficulty they envisioned (within reason).
3) Asking random people on the internet if they agree with your DMs rulings is sometimes in bad form. I appreciate you giving your story, but at this point we have only heard one side.
Overall, you had a clever idea. Your DM pushed back on it a little, but ultimately allowed you to do exactly what you wanted. The only thing they said they would do in response was alter the difficulty of the encounter to account for a variable they had not originally planned for, which is within their right. So I would say they are being reasonable. Ruling & changing things on the fly is entirely what a DM is supposed to do.
Four-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
It was not handled well, but there's a bunch of converging homebrew here that was making his job really hard.
The first part was a charm that made you huge and gave you crazy strength. That's not an official thing and messing that much with PC size and strength is always going to have complications.
The second part was spotlighting this giant hammer that no one could use. The game does not support players using oversize weapons even when they are temporarily made larger - look how small the damage bonuses are from enlarge/reduce or the Rune Knights embiggen feature. Giants do 6d6 with their hammer because they are monsters that need to do 6d6 to challenge a party of a certain level. Giving PCs access to that same kind of damage breaks the game in all sorts of ways. In general it's good to think of damage values as a property of a monster, not the weapon it's wielding.
So I'd say the DM screwed up and is just not being very graceful in their backpedaling. I would have let you wield the hammer, but I probably would have given it like +1d6 damage over a normal hammer or something. But really I wouldn't have set up the circumstances that led to this in the first place.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Everything was legitmate and was in the module. According to him at least. No homebrew, we are playing through the Rime of the Frostmaiden right now.
I understand it is not the best look I DM quite a bit. I just wanted to know if I was in the wrong headspace or not. I understand it is within his right to do it but to almost threaten the players with jumping the difficulty seemed wrong to me.
Unless the module itself presented rules on players wielding that hammer (which it sounds like it didn't) then it comes down to the DM to determine how it will work mechanically, including simply barring players from using it for the sake of balance. Your DM went another route and (after some arguing) let you have the hammer and use it as a monk weapon, but also was open and clear they would change the balance, likely since the module may not have accounted for the party having a 9ft hammer.
I would also like to point out that a weapon has to lack the Heavy and Special properties to be kensei weapon. While normal-sized warhammers fit the bill, I am pretty sure this 9 ft long hammer would have the Heavy property.
Four-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
I'd agree with scatterbraind's assessment in that your DM seems to be more indelicate in handling the situation versus being unreasonable. Again, we only have your point of view and interpretation of said situation, but he seemed to be unprepared for the connection of having a character grow to such giant size (and strength) and then intend to use the massive hammer that was previously introduced. It's a clever concept on your part, but clever ideas aren't always well received in the spur of the moment. Not sure what benefits that particular hammer would provide, but DM had a "oh crap" moment and could have probably handled it more smoothly.
Also a very good point. If the enlarged character grew to 20+ feet tall, but the hammer is 9 feet long, I would honestly view the weapon as more of a maul than a warhammer. The big hammer would still be almost half the size of the giant character, so I'd expect it to have the heavy and two-handed properties.
So we only have your point of view, and while I'm not saying you are intentionally trying to make it seem like you are the "victim"? I think it's important for me specifically to note that as I talk about your post.
"I had not chosen my level 6 Kensei weapon" to me is the first red flag. The DM really should have forced you to choose this at level 6. Character features/upgrades are just that. They are something to be selected right then and not altered unless the DM says so or there is a rule that allows it to be modified at a future date. This specifically caused that issue.
The charm in Rime ends up giving you a strength of 23, but you're literally cursed with being 21 feet tall and 7700 pounds. Those are not advantages, those are detriments. Feeding someone that large is basically impossible without magical intervention, and sadly completely trivialized by a level 1 casting of Goodberry. You cannot get into a lot spaces and existing in towns is impossible for the purposes of standard lodging, which in Rime is a big deal since Winter is basically permanent.
There's a further comment about Kensei weapons requiring their weapon to not be Heavy which is 100% spot on. This basically goes to "I read the rules far enough to get my way" and not "Let's check the entire text to see what I can and cannot do". It's really important in these odd edge cases to do that EVEN if it invalidates your wants because it establishes that relationship of trust between you and the DM. If I'm taking your words at the spirit, it seems like you asked, the DM said no, you remembered you hadn't selected the L6 ability and then the DM started to get on edge and it snowballed. While a traditional Warhammer does not have the Heavy property, I would totally rule that a hammer taller than everyone but you and EVEN at you it would stand waist high is considered Heavy.
Finally, I do fault the DM for some language at the table too. Publicly showing frustration and then outwardly stating that he is going to make things harder is just bad form. You can totally make those adjustments without even saying anything and 8/10 times the party just won't notice. Saying it out loud though is going to create animosity.
All in? Shitty situation on all fronts by all sides. Go back to the person and explain your side. Then find a way to clear that affliction since being 21 feet tall in Rime is the best way to die.
To be fair, this is a really silly thing to say. Obviously the DM would have said “hey, you forgot to pick something” if they noticed it, but, since they didn’t, it’s pretty darn obvious they did not see the error. Maybe they don’t micromanage character sheets or maybe they, like the OP, just missed it.
It isn’t a “red flag” to miss something on the character sheet - it’s a simple and common mistake many players make if they are new, using a different builder than they are used to, not paying attention to all the different tabs, etc. The proper thing to do is just say “choose it now,” even if they have meta knowledge that might change how they would have otherwise chosen it.
Which seems to be what happened here. The DM got slightly annoyed with the error, they came to an accord, everything worked out. Other than being stuck playing RotF instead of well-written content (I jest… sort of), it seems the problem resolved itself exactly how it should under a healthy player-DM relationship.
I feel like the DM could have handled it better, but so could you OP.
This whole scenario feels like something that should have been discussed ahead of time if you wanted to wield the hammer. What you did, even if it wasn't your intent, kind of comes across as trying to ambush your DM with the bit about your kensei mechanics and really putting them on the spot.
imo would have been better handled as just mentioning your ability up front and telling them you want to try wielding that hammer in between sessions and seeing if you two could work out a plan. It might have gone smoother doing it that way.
It's a red flag for this specific scenario because it's what drove the interaction. I'm also trying to extrapolate in my head how they'd have missed it naturally since Rime does involve milestone leveling and the playtime from 6-9 isn't going to be one session. Which means going into the character builder multiple times and revising options which then means seeing this feature with its blue box altering you to "Hey you need to do stuff here".
I'd be curious to know what types of conversations preceeded this around this level 6 feature but we'll never know.