The Fighter requires a DEX or STR score of 13 to multiclass into another class because fighter builds can go either direction. I think the same should apply to Paladins and Rangers. Then the requirements for multiclassing would be:
Paladin - CHA 13 and (DEX 13 or STR 13)
Ranger - WIS 13 and (DEX 13 or STR 13)
There's an available workaround by turning off the requirements in the character builder, but it seems like this should be a standard option.
The default rules on DDB aren't going to change unless there's an update to the actual core rules, which likely wouldn't happen until the '5.5' thing whatever form it ends up taking in a couple years.
The default rules on DDB aren't going to change unless there's an update to the actual core rules, which likely wouldn't happen until the '5.5' thing whatever form it ends up taking in a couple years.
This is just a side note: It is less than 17 months till 2024. It is coming up fast!
I like the multi classing requirements on Paladin, it's a strong multi class and the STR requirement keeps it in check for something to multiclass into. It's main weakness is that it's supposed to be dependent on multiple stats, I don't see why that should be removed, it really helps with the game balance. With Ranger I could see STR instead of DEX as a good option as DEX is by far a more powerful stat than STR.
The default rules on DDB aren't going to change unless there's an update to the actual core rules, which likely wouldn't happen until the '5.5' thing whatever form it ends up taking in a couple years.
This is just a side note: It is less than 17 months till 2024. It is coming up fast!
The default rules on DDB aren't going to change unless there's an update to the actual core rules, which likely wouldn't happen until the '5.5' thing whatever form it ends up taking in a couple years.
This is just a side note: It is less than 17 months till 2024. It is coming up fast!
It's more than 24 months until December 2024 ;-)
Edit: Moving this off topic discussion to new thread.
_Nano, a dexterity based paladin still has to have high stats in CHA, CON, and DEX. And, giving up STR also means giving up the ability to wear full plate which results in a lower AC. At 1st level, you'll probably be at best 17 AC (with studded leather, shield, and +3 DEX) while a standard paladin would be 20 AC (plate and shield). And a DEX based paladin is less effective with weapons too as they're handicapped when using anything other than a finesse weapon like a rapier. I think it still balances out fairly well.
_Nano, a dexterity based paladin still has to have high stats in CHA, CON, and DEX. And, giving up STR also means giving up the ability to wear full plate which results in a lower AC. At 1st level, you'll probably be at best 17 AC (with studded leather, shield, and +3 DEX) while a standard paladin would be 20 AC (plate and shield). And a DEX based paladin is less effective with weapons too as they're handicapped when using anything other than a finesse weapon like a rapier. I think it still balances out fairly well.
I get your overall point, but if you've ever played a paladin in plate armor at level 1 you have a far more generous DM than I've ever played with. It'd be 16 or 18 for a new paladin depending on if they use a shield or go for a 2h weapon.
A "dexadin" is still MAD, but for the price of that 1 AC they get more skills boosted, better initiative, and better saves on a major save stat. It's not so much a flaw with the paladin class, but rather a flaw with DEX just being so much better than STR. That's the only reason a dex-based paladin is even viable.
So for that reason, I'm with Nano. Ranger is a legitimate flex class because they support a wide array of weapon types. But Paladins are supposed to be knights in shining armor and STR needs all the help it can get, so I prefer their requirements stay the same. And this is coming from someone who's two last MC characters were PLD/RNG and PLD/Rogue. Figuring out the stat spread was a fun challenge.
While we're at it, let's work out a STR/WIS monk too.
_Nano, a dexterity based paladin still has to have high stats in CHA, CON, and DEX. And, giving up STR also means giving up the ability to wear full plate which results in a lower AC. At 1st level, you'll probably be at best 17 AC (with studded leather, shield, and +3 DEX) while a standard paladin would be 20 AC (plate and shield). And a DEX based paladin is less effective with weapons too as they're handicapped when using anything other than a finesse weapon like a rapier. I think it still balances out fairly well.
I get your overall point, but if you've ever played a paladin in plate armor at level 1 you have a far more generous DM than I've ever played with. It'd be 16 or 18 for a new paladin depending on if they use a shield or go for a 2h weapon.
Yeah, sorry about that. My brain was saying that plate mail was a starting item for Paladin, forgot it's Chain.
I think it's just WotC's way of trying to distance Paladin and Ranger from Fighter... similar to Ranger not being proficient in Heavy Armour (which is nonsense).
Them having access to all armour goes back to OD&D and the Strategic Review!
Like, don't get me wrong, 90% of rangers won't want heavy armour. Mythril Plate is less effective than +2 Half Plate, but there's still no reason why they need to lose out on heavy armour, a spellcasting focus, and divine casting in their original design... especially since they have Strength as a save instead of Intelligence like Druids.
I can't speak for past editions of D&D but when I think Ranger I tend to think like ARagorn as a ranger or World of Warcraft hunters etc, where medium armor feels more appropriate to me. It'd feel weird to have them nimbly moving through the environment while in full plate armor imo.
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The Fighter requires a DEX or STR score of 13 to multiclass into another class because fighter builds can go either direction. I think the same should apply to Paladins and Rangers. Then the requirements for multiclassing would be:
There's an available workaround by turning off the requirements in the character builder, but it seems like this should be a standard option.
The default rules on DDB aren't going to change unless there's an update to the actual core rules, which likely wouldn't happen until the '5.5' thing whatever form it ends up taking in a couple years.
This is just a side note: It is less than 17 months till 2024. It is coming up fast!
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I like the multi classing requirements on Paladin, it's a strong multi class and the STR requirement keeps it in check for something to multiclass into. It's main weakness is that it's supposed to be dependent on multiple stats, I don't see why that should be removed, it really helps with the game balance.
With Ranger I could see STR instead of DEX as a good option as DEX is by far a more powerful stat than STR.
It's more than 24 months until December 2024 ;-)
Edit: Moving this off topic discussion to new thread.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
_Nano, a dexterity based paladin still has to have high stats in CHA, CON, and DEX. And, giving up STR also means giving up the ability to wear full plate which results in a lower AC. At 1st level, you'll probably be at best 17 AC (with studded leather, shield, and +3 DEX) while a standard paladin would be 20 AC (plate and shield). And a DEX based paladin is less effective with weapons too as they're handicapped when using anything other than a finesse weapon like a rapier. I think it still balances out fairly well.
I get your overall point, but if you've ever played a paladin in plate armor at level 1 you have a far more generous DM than I've ever played with. It'd be 16 or 18 for a new paladin depending on if they use a shield or go for a 2h weapon.
A "dexadin" is still MAD, but for the price of that 1 AC they get more skills boosted, better initiative, and better saves on a major save stat. It's not so much a flaw with the paladin class, but rather a flaw with DEX just being so much better than STR. That's the only reason a dex-based paladin is even viable.
So for that reason, I'm with Nano. Ranger is a legitimate flex class because they support a wide array of weapon types. But Paladins are supposed to be knights in shining armor and STR needs all the help it can get, so I prefer their requirements stay the same. And this is coming from someone who's two last MC characters were PLD/RNG and PLD/Rogue. Figuring out the stat spread was a fun challenge.
While we're at it, let's work out a STR/WIS monk too.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Yeah, sorry about that. My brain was saying that plate mail was a starting item for Paladin, forgot it's Chain.
I think it's just WotC's way of trying to distance Paladin and Ranger from Fighter... similar to Ranger not being proficient in Heavy Armour (which is nonsense).
Them having access to all armour goes back to OD&D and the Strategic Review!
Like, don't get me wrong, 90% of rangers won't want heavy armour. Mythril Plate is less effective than +2 Half Plate, but there's still no reason why they need to lose out on heavy armour, a spellcasting focus, and divine casting in their original design... especially since they have Strength as a save instead of Intelligence like Druids.
I can't speak for past editions of D&D but when I think Ranger I tend to think like ARagorn as a ranger or World of Warcraft hunters etc, where medium armor feels more appropriate to me. It'd feel weird to have them nimbly moving through the environment while in full plate armor imo.