My personal preference would be for something like Relics and Rarities (one of Deborah Ann Woll’s streams). The show followed the same basic group of adventurers (with guest stars each episode), but each episode was its own mostly self-contained story, tied in briefly to the major story. The pacing was well-done, they generally kept on track, and it often had fun puzzle elements and props, rather than just watch people talk or throw dice in combat. The combination of characters and a greater story one could grow attached to with more episodic vignettes is far more accessible and digestible than, say, a campaign hundreds upon hundreds of hours long where the entire 44-episode-long third arc is a glorified fetch quest with no relevance to the greater plot established in the other arcs.
I don't care about format, I care about content. I want characters that have depth and an actual story, but I also want combat and properly/consistently used mechanics (even if they don't match RAW). I want all the pillars. That can be accomplished more easily the more time you have, but it's certainly accomplishable in short campaigns or oneshots if you have a good cast.
I'd prefer each episode to be self contained. Or rather, I can pick up a random episode and not need to know what happened before or what will happen after to enjoy it or understand what is happening. I don't mind there being an overall story...so long as the episodes don't rely on it. I don't have the regular time to sit down and watch it, so it'll only ever be when I have spare time and may not be able to keep up. I like the idea of watching it, but the episodes of CR are long, and it becomes daunting to think that I'm so far behind.
Then again, being so intermittent in my viewing...I may not be your target audience and therefore my opinion may not be applicable.
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It depends. With a professional cast like those on Critical Role, I love a good long campaign with a complex story played by a bunch of entertaining players. Something coming from a cast of regular people however, I do not want to go back and watch 100 episodes to know what is going on and would prefer one shots or small campaigns just a few sessions long.
I'd prefer each episode to be self contained. Or rather, I can pick up a random episode and not need to know what happened before or what will happen after to enjoy it or understand what is happening. I don't mind there being an overall story...so long as the episodes don't rely on it. I don't have the regular time to sit down and watch it, so it'll only ever be when I have spare time and may not be able to keep up. I like the idea of watching it, but the episodes of CR are long, and it becomes daunting to think that I'm so far behind.
Then again, being so intermittent in my viewing...I may not be your target audience and therefore my opinion may not be applicable.
Yeah, I definitely get that 3 hour episodes are tough to fit into a real life sched. When we filmed our Ready to Roll series, we went for around 1 hour-ish, but those are edited episodes, not live stream. And they'd have been a bit longer had Covid not screwed our plans for a lot of live re-enactment shoots. Instead we have had to make a few short stand alone addons for a few of the episodes :(
On the streams, we generally see about 2-3 hours. For oneshots, you pretty much need that or it's way too short I think. But for a regular ongoing series I think maybe shooting for closer to 2 hours per episode may be a good length.
I find myself falling off after a few episodes of just about any live play content. The only one I've ever finished was The Adventure Zone, and that was quite a while back -- I don't listen to any podcasts these days, and I was listening to, like, six back then.
Dimension 20, Legends of the Multiverse, Folk and Dagger, Critical Role... I just can't really do it for more than 4 or 5 episodes.
I find myself falling off after a few episodes of just about any live play content. The only one I've ever finished was The Adventure Zone, and that was quite a while back -- I don't listen to any podcasts these days, and I was listening to, like, six back then.
Dimension 20, Legends of the Multiverse, Folk and Dagger, Critical Role... I just can't really do it for more than 4 or 5 episodes.
Meanwhile you have given me more to look into. :P
Kidding aside, what caused the change? I myself have found it more difficult to keep up with CR once I finished uni. I was silly enough to think I would have more time once I graduated.
Time is the primary reason I am reluctant to try out new shows with an unprofessional cast; I simply cannot afford to spend 3 to 4 hours on a maybe. That is definitely not the fault of the streamer, but for me, it weighs in heavily on my decision.
To the OP:
Some things I consider when floating around on Twitch looking for a D&D show are things like sound quality. If the players have microphones that sound like they dug them out of the bin behind a RadioShack, I am probably not going to stick around. I am definitely cool with theater of the mind, but that means the DM has to be comfortable painting a picture. Table conflicts are super cringe when streaming (hello Orion), so make sure you have players that are pretty comfortable with each other and relatively stable. Having at least one person who is funny will help. Just some ideas from a random guy on the web.
Table conflicts are super cringe when streaming (hello Orion), so make sure you have players that are pretty comfortable with each other and relatively stable.
This is good advice, and I think every streamer should watch the last couple episodes of CR with Orion just for a primer on how not to act on camera (Orion was a problematic creep from day one, but it is most notable toward the end of his time). In particular, one should pay attention to Sam and Taliesin alongside Orion—Orion does some of the same things as Sam and Taliesin (making dirty jokes and touching the female party members respectively), but he does so with a general air of sleaziness and a clear lack of consent from the others at the table. It is really, really bad, but the foil between those three can be a useful lesson for streamers.
I also think it is useful to clarify that table conflicts are different than party conflicts. A conflict within the party can make for some really compelling television—it gives something that adds depth to characters, allows viewers to debate what side is “right” (which is great if you want to keep folks engaged when not actively streaming), and can really define storylines in a way that hooks viewers as they wait to see what side of the party wins (after all, viewers can reasonably expect the party will win in the party vs DM dynamic—inter party conflict can be a little less fait accompli)….
…. But all of this only works if the players get along and do not let the party conflict spill into the real world. Watching characters get into disagreement is fun, watching the players get angry at one another can quickly turn off the viewer.
The only video format live play I've stuck with (after a break because baby) is oxventure. It's one long campaign, some storylines can get cut up into more than one episode, but overall it follows the same characters.
On podcasts I've only followed longer campaigns. "Dungeons and daddies", and I'm trying to get into "not another dnd podcast" but I'm having a bit of a hard time with it, mainly because it seems to be very combat heavy. I like playing combat in dnd, but when it's on a podcast it's less fun for me. Also it seems like Emily is a "one up" type of person, which, mixed with being the loudest in the room, can get a bit grating (I'm sure she is a nice person, she just gets a bit eager I think)
Writing It all out I guess it's plain to see that I mostly enjoy sheenagians and role play in dnd, when watching others, while rule following is less important.
The only one I've ever finished was The Adventure Zone, and that was quite a while back -- I don't listen to any podcasts these days, and I was listening to, like, six back then.
Kidding aside, what caused the change? I myself have found it more difficult to keep up with CR once I finished uni. I was silly enough to think I would have more time once I graduated.
It's two things, really. First, I used to have a 30ish minute walk to work every day, that I don't have anymore. Second, I used to have very limited data on my phone plan, so I would download entertainment onto it with my home wifi. Now I can freely stream or play games or whatever.
I also think season 1 of TAZ was uniquely compelling. I was still in the same situation when the later seasons aired, but I didn't finish any of them.
2nd Relics and Rarities. I also think GlassCannon has a good format. "New Game Who Dis" does a one shot with a new to the cast game system over threeish episodes (6-7 hours usually). I just got into their longer form stuff, I think they have a couple of or a flagship "long campaign" but the one's I'm liking seem intended for 12 episodes.
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I chose the "one-shot" option, but mostly because when it comes to watching D&D sessions I'm a channel surfer. I don't have much loyalty to one or the other. I'll watch Critical Role one moment, then Dungeons & Cosmonauts the next, with the ongoingness going over my head. Just wanna watch some D&D, I guess. :/
Some things I consider when floating around on Twitch looking for a D&D show are things like sound quality. If the players have microphones that sound like they dug them out of the bin behind a RadioShack, I am probably not going to stick around. I am definitely cool with theater of the mind, but that means the DM has to be comfortable painting a picture. Table conflicts are super cringe when streaming (hello Orion), so make sure you have players that are pretty comfortable with each other and relatively stable. Having at least one person who is funny will help. Just some ideas from a random guy on the web.
I think one difference we have is that almost everyone in the company is from film/movies. So on live streams we have people running sound specifically, camera control, etc. On our shot then produced before release shows like Ready to Roll, it's getting production done by folks who did that for tv shows/movies.
Definitely, I agree about how players interact. Characters having conflicts can make for great entertainment, but actual conflict between the players is not cool, and we don't want to see that.
Love the feedback, and truly appreciate everyone taking time to vote and comment!
I voted long campaign, but I'm currently watching High Rollers D&D's campaign Aerois, which so far has 158 three hour episodes. Though admittedly, I started watching four years late, so I'm only on episode 121 right now. I'm also watching Nights of Eveningstar, it's the first D&D show that I actually started watching and it got me into Aerois. It also helped spur me to play a lot more. Before I had only played like 30 hours, now I've played 250.
Anyways, what determines whether or not I like a show, is the players & plot & DM, not how long it runs. Mark Hulmes, who DM's both Eveningstar and Aerois, is an excellent storyteller and a great DM, and even if he does get a few rules wrong every now and then, it happens. I tried watching Critical Role C3, but I stopped 12 or so episodes in, because I found there wasn't that much of a continuos plot, or greater threat. It was just the same people doing a bunch of different adventures.
I like streams with combat, but I also like roleplaying. I want it to be interesting, but I also want it to be a story with a greater arc. Do you know what I mean or am I just writing in circles?
I find myself falling off after a few episodes of just about any live play content. The only one I've ever finished was The Adventure Zone, and that was quite a while back -- I don't listen to any podcasts these days, and I was listening to, like, six back then.
Dimension 20, Legends of the Multiverse, Folk and Dagger, Critical Role... I just can't really do it for more than 4 or 5 episodes.
You should try anything DMed by Mark Hulmes. He's my favorite DM & D&D streamer.
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For my own viewing I'll provide the caveat that I don't actually like watching a live stream but instead prefer to watch at my own leisure on YouTube. I also enjoy the 3 and a half hour episodes the most, but if we're talking about a major story or combat episode, I am 100% down for 4 and a half hours.
I also have an interest in watching higher level games, since I rarely get to run such myself but wish I did.
I'm in the group of mini-series. As a big fan of Dimension20, I've watched most of their series to completion. While there are notable style differences between Dimension20 and Critical Role, I have to agree that the most off-putting thing for me is simply the length of CR. Each episode being about 3hrs long weekly means that being two episodes behind is 6hrs to catch up. And it only goes up exponentially. I don't have the time to watch it, even on the side, especially once we're talking about a full length campaign of over 100 episodes. I hate missing out on the various inside jokes that my friends make of CR when they talk about the latter parts of season 2, but there's absolutely no reasonable way that's gonna happen for me since there's so much context and character development that apparently makes it all better.
To sorta put in my opinion on the group rather than time, I'd say group formulas are definitely important, too. A DM that's flexible and a good storyteller (entertaining for both his party and the viewers). Players that understand in-party tension and resolution is separate from real life on top of fun dynamics. Thing is, your focus on different elements is simply going to attract different people. Some people prefer mostly or all RAW mechanics, others want rule of cool. I'm a mostly-RAW guy myself with some exceptions. I think what it comes down to, really, is that everyone is having fun and sincerely enjoys being around each other without any brooders; in-character brooding is fine, people who sit back and are not active is not fun to watch. The only times I've enjoyed a typically quiet player are moments when they introduce sorely-needed levity or perception. Quiet players are as important as loud players in any D&D table, but imo they don't largely fit when discussing entertaining audiences. Engaged players is an engaged audience.
Back to the original point of the thread, I like an overall story in a shorter campaign (8-12 episodes) because I like conclusions. I may love the characters and the story, but sometimes they just go on and on and on and I'll burn out, just like tv shows. Whether they are ~3hrs or shorter is almost irrelevant if I know the campaign length wouldn't literally take me months (or even a year) to finish. 50 episodes at 3hrs each? That's 150hrs. Considering if it's finished, even if I watched 10hrs a week (which is really pushing it), that's still 15 weeks straight of consuming virtually no other media. For me, that not only makes me not want to even try, but it also lowers rewatchability. Imho, CR is one of very few that can do it well because of how they practically started the whole genre professionally and are able to continue growing due to an already established presence. Maybe a shorter campaign type would be of more benefit just to get yourselves out there more, and with a following you can determine future projects from that and what people like about you. There's a possibility it won't be as lucrative if you just jump into something long-form and you don't get many new followers over time as you would short.
Thanks for reading the opinion of a stranger that's in the 25% opinion bracket and virtually no professional experience, lol.
Rather than the length of a campaign, the length of a story arc is more relevant. I'd go with a middling length with episodes about an hour each. Each story arc should be mostly self contained and may or may not be part of the same campaign.
That said, D&D is kind of a terrible system for streaming/podcasts. The focus of the rules is on tactical gameplay and attrition based difficulty. The streamers that use D&D to great success generally do it by avoiding everything the system is actually good at and instead focusing on a good narrative.
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Hey all, the content studio I work at is deciding on format/length for new shows.
Considering everything from 1 episode single shot adventures to the very long campaigns (like critical role).
So please vote as it will help a lot! And any feedback is helpful.
My personal preference would be for something like Relics and Rarities (one of Deborah Ann Woll’s streams). The show followed the same basic group of adventurers (with guest stars each episode), but each episode was its own mostly self-contained story, tied in briefly to the major story. The pacing was well-done, they generally kept on track, and it often had fun puzzle elements and props, rather than just watch people talk or throw dice in combat. The combination of characters and a greater story one could grow attached to with more episodic vignettes is far more accessible and digestible than, say, a campaign hundreds upon hundreds of hours long where the entire 44-episode-long third arc is a glorified fetch quest with no relevance to the greater plot established in the other arcs.
I don't care about format, I care about content. I want characters that have depth and an actual story, but I also want combat and properly/consistently used mechanics (even if they don't match RAW). I want all the pillars. That can be accomplished more easily the more time you have, but it's certainly accomplishable in short campaigns or oneshots if you have a good cast.
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I'd prefer each episode to be self contained. Or rather, I can pick up a random episode and not need to know what happened before or what will happen after to enjoy it or understand what is happening. I don't mind there being an overall story...so long as the episodes don't rely on it. I don't have the regular time to sit down and watch it, so it'll only ever be when I have spare time and may not be able to keep up. I like the idea of watching it, but the episodes of CR are long, and it becomes daunting to think that I'm so far behind.
Then again, being so intermittent in my viewing...I may not be your target audience and therefore my opinion may not be applicable.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It depends. With a professional cast like those on Critical Role, I love a good long campaign with a complex story played by a bunch of entertaining players. Something coming from a cast of regular people however, I do not want to go back and watch 100 episodes to know what is going on and would prefer one shots or small campaigns just a few sessions long.
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Yeah, I definitely get that 3 hour episodes are tough to fit into a real life sched. When we filmed our Ready to Roll series, we went for around 1 hour-ish, but those are edited episodes, not live stream. And they'd have been a bit longer had Covid not screwed our plans for a lot of live re-enactment shoots. Instead we have had to make a few short stand alone addons for a few of the episodes :(
On the streams, we generally see about 2-3 hours. For oneshots, you pretty much need that or it's way too short I think. But for a regular ongoing series I think maybe shooting for closer to 2 hours per episode may be a good length.
1 hour is a great episode run-time, and the more recaps are posted, the longer it can be and be epic.
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I find myself falling off after a few episodes of just about any live play content. The only one I've ever finished was The Adventure Zone, and that was quite a while back -- I don't listen to any podcasts these days, and I was listening to, like, six back then.
Dimension 20, Legends of the Multiverse, Folk and Dagger, Critical Role... I just can't really do it for more than 4 or 5 episodes.
Meanwhile you have given me more to look into. :P
Kidding aside, what caused the change? I myself have found it more difficult to keep up with CR once I finished uni. I was silly enough to think I would have more time once I graduated.
Time is the primary reason I am reluctant to try out new shows with an unprofessional cast; I simply cannot afford to spend 3 to 4 hours on a maybe. That is definitely not the fault of the streamer, but for me, it weighs in heavily on my decision.
To the OP:
Some things I consider when floating around on Twitch looking for a D&D show are things like sound quality. If the players have microphones that sound like they dug them out of the bin behind a RadioShack, I am probably not going to stick around. I am definitely cool with theater of the mind, but that means the DM has to be comfortable painting a picture. Table conflicts are super cringe when streaming (hello Orion), so make sure you have players that are pretty comfortable with each other and relatively stable. Having at least one person who is funny will help. Just some ideas from a random guy on the web.
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This is good advice, and I think every streamer should watch the last couple episodes of CR with Orion just for a primer on how not to act on camera (Orion was a problematic creep from day one, but it is most notable toward the end of his time). In particular, one should pay attention to Sam and Taliesin alongside Orion—Orion does some of the same things as Sam and Taliesin (making dirty jokes and touching the female party members respectively), but he does so with a general air of sleaziness and a clear lack of consent from the others at the table. It is really, really bad, but the foil between those three can be a useful lesson for streamers.
I also think it is useful to clarify that table conflicts are different than party conflicts. A conflict within the party can make for some really compelling television—it gives something that adds depth to characters, allows viewers to debate what side is “right” (which is great if you want to keep folks engaged when not actively streaming), and can really define storylines in a way that hooks viewers as they wait to see what side of the party wins (after all, viewers can reasonably expect the party will win in the party vs DM dynamic—inter party conflict can be a little less fait accompli)….
…. But all of this only works if the players get along and do not let the party conflict spill into the real world. Watching characters get into disagreement is fun, watching the players get angry at one another can quickly turn off the viewer.
The only video format live play I've stuck with (after a break because baby) is oxventure. It's one long campaign, some storylines can get cut up into more than one episode, but overall it follows the same characters.
On podcasts I've only followed longer campaigns. "Dungeons and daddies", and I'm trying to get into "not another dnd podcast" but I'm having a bit of a hard time with it, mainly because it seems to be very combat heavy. I like playing combat in dnd, but when it's on a podcast it's less fun for me. Also it seems like Emily is a "one up" type of person, which, mixed with being the loudest in the room, can get a bit grating (I'm sure she is a nice person, she just gets a bit eager I think)
Writing It all out I guess it's plain to see that I mostly enjoy sheenagians and role play in dnd, when watching others, while rule following is less important.
It's two things, really. First, I used to have a 30ish minute walk to work every day, that I don't have anymore. Second, I used to have very limited data on my phone plan, so I would download entertainment onto it with my home wifi. Now I can freely stream or play games or whatever.
I also think season 1 of TAZ was uniquely compelling. I was still in the same situation when the later seasons aired, but I didn't finish any of them.
2nd Relics and Rarities. I also think GlassCannon has a good format. "New Game Who Dis" does a one shot with a new to the cast game system over threeish episodes (6-7 hours usually). I just got into their longer form stuff, I think they have a couple of or a flagship "long campaign" but the one's I'm liking seem intended for 12 episodes.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I chose the "one-shot" option, but mostly because when it comes to watching D&D sessions I'm a channel surfer. I don't have much loyalty to one or the other. I'll watch Critical Role one moment, then Dungeons & Cosmonauts the next, with the ongoingness going over my head. Just wanna watch some D&D, I guess. :/
I think one difference we have is that almost everyone in the company is from film/movies. So on live streams we have people running sound specifically, camera control, etc. On our shot then produced before release shows like Ready to Roll, it's getting production done by folks who did that for tv shows/movies.
Definitely, I agree about how players interact. Characters having conflicts can make for great entertainment, but actual conflict between the players is not cool, and we don't want to see that.
Love the feedback, and truly appreciate everyone taking time to vote and comment!
I voted long campaign, but I'm currently watching High Rollers D&D's campaign Aerois, which so far has 158 three hour episodes. Though admittedly, I started watching four years late, so I'm only on episode 121 right now. I'm also watching Nights of Eveningstar, it's the first D&D show that I actually started watching and it got me into Aerois. It also helped spur me to play a lot more. Before I had only played like 30 hours, now I've played 250.
Anyways, what determines whether or not I like a show, is the players & plot & DM, not how long it runs. Mark Hulmes, who DM's both Eveningstar and Aerois, is an excellent storyteller and a great DM, and even if he does get a few rules wrong every now and then, it happens. I tried watching Critical Role C3, but I stopped 12 or so episodes in, because I found there wasn't that much of a continuos plot, or greater threat. It was just the same people doing a bunch of different adventures.
I like streams with combat, but I also like roleplaying. I want it to be interesting, but I also want it to be a story with a greater arc. Do you know what I mean or am I just writing in circles?
You should try anything DMed by Mark Hulmes. He's my favorite DM & D&D streamer.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.100+ Episode Campiagn
For my own viewing I'll provide the caveat that I don't actually like watching a live stream but instead prefer to watch at my own leisure on YouTube. I also enjoy the 3 and a half hour episodes the most, but if we're talking about a major story or combat episode, I am 100% down for 4 and a half hours.
I also have an interest in watching higher level games, since I rarely get to run such myself but wish I did.
I'll be wrapping up this soon, so anymore votes, get them in! And any other feedback, let'er rip!
I'm in the group of mini-series. As a big fan of Dimension20, I've watched most of their series to completion. While there are notable style differences between Dimension20 and Critical Role, I have to agree that the most off-putting thing for me is simply the length of CR. Each episode being about 3hrs long weekly means that being two episodes behind is 6hrs to catch up. And it only goes up exponentially. I don't have the time to watch it, even on the side, especially once we're talking about a full length campaign of over 100 episodes. I hate missing out on the various inside jokes that my friends make of CR when they talk about the latter parts of season 2, but there's absolutely no reasonable way that's gonna happen for me since there's so much context and character development that apparently makes it all better.
To sorta put in my opinion on the group rather than time, I'd say group formulas are definitely important, too. A DM that's flexible and a good storyteller (entertaining for both his party and the viewers). Players that understand in-party tension and resolution is separate from real life on top of fun dynamics. Thing is, your focus on different elements is simply going to attract different people. Some people prefer mostly or all RAW mechanics, others want rule of cool. I'm a mostly-RAW guy myself with some exceptions. I think what it comes down to, really, is that everyone is having fun and sincerely enjoys being around each other without any brooders; in-character brooding is fine, people who sit back and are not active is not fun to watch. The only times I've enjoyed a typically quiet player are moments when they introduce sorely-needed levity or perception. Quiet players are as important as loud players in any D&D table, but imo they don't largely fit when discussing entertaining audiences. Engaged players is an engaged audience.
Back to the original point of the thread, I like an overall story in a shorter campaign (8-12 episodes) because I like conclusions. I may love the characters and the story, but sometimes they just go on and on and on and I'll burn out, just like tv shows. Whether they are ~3hrs or shorter is almost irrelevant if I know the campaign length wouldn't literally take me months (or even a year) to finish. 50 episodes at 3hrs each? That's 150hrs. Considering if it's finished, even if I watched 10hrs a week (which is really pushing it), that's still 15 weeks straight of consuming virtually no other media. For me, that not only makes me not want to even try, but it also lowers rewatchability. Imho, CR is one of very few that can do it well because of how they practically started the whole genre professionally and are able to continue growing due to an already established presence. Maybe a shorter campaign type would be of more benefit just to get yourselves out there more, and with a following you can determine future projects from that and what people like about you. There's a possibility it won't be as lucrative if you just jump into something long-form and you don't get many new followers over time as you would short.
Thanks for reading the opinion of a stranger that's in the 25% opinion bracket and virtually no professional experience, lol.
Rather than the length of a campaign, the length of a story arc is more relevant. I'd go with a middling length with episodes about an hour each. Each story arc should be mostly self contained and may or may not be part of the same campaign.
That said, D&D is kind of a terrible system for streaming/podcasts. The focus of the rules is on tactical gameplay and attrition based difficulty. The streamers that use D&D to great success generally do it by avoiding everything the system is actually good at and instead focusing on a good narrative.