A lot of that was pretty expected given UA, but "one spell with a spell slot per turn" is certainly a lot less likely to cause confusion than the existing rule for bonus action spells. I will say that the way Hiding works seems... not fixed, just broken in new and different ways.
I am very fond of the Bonus Spell/Leveled Spell change. The old rule was extremely annoying to explain to new players and even some veteran players.
100% agreed. I think that makes it extremely simple and as Treantmonk explained, opens up some other options for those who have species' inherent magic or feats that don't use spell slots. Pretty neat.
It's actually an incredibly simple concept, "one leveled spell per turn"
Except that wasn't the rule. That is what it got simplified down to.
Yes and no. It's one spell slot to cast spells per turn. Free castings are not restricted in this way. Whether by being a cantrip, a ritual, or from an item (scroll, staff, wand) or special ability (Favored Enemy).
If it doesn't require a slot, you can cast it in the same turn as a spell with a slot.
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It's actually an incredibly simple concept, "one leveled spell per turn"
Except that wasn't the rule. That is what it got simplified down to.
Yes and no. It's one spell slot to cast spells per turn. Free castings are not restricted in this way. Whether by being a cantrip, a ritual, or from an item (scroll, staff, wand) or special ability (Favored Enemy).
If it doesn't require a slot, you can cast it in the same turn as a spell with a slot.
Yes. "One spell slot per turn" is easier than "One leveled spell except when blah blah blah etc"
It's actually an incredibly simple concept, "one leveled spell per turn"
Except that wasn't the rule. That is what it got simplified down to.
Yes and no. It's one spell slot to cast spells per turn. Free castings are not restricted in this way. Whether by being a cantrip, a ritual, or from an item (scroll, staff, wand) or special ability (Favored Enemy).
If it doesn't require a slot, you can cast it in the same turn as a spell with a slot.
Every caster that doesn't get free-casting features is now disadvantaged to a massive degree in favor of those who do.
That's 2024 5e design. "Screw you for playing the wrong build."
I think it depends on what that free casting feature is that will affect how advantageous or not it is, power-wise. Obviously free castings are always an advantage. And Magic Initiate is a background feat so even there you can pick up something if you don’t get it elsewhere.
I get what you are saying and I do wish that was addressed. (Edit: at least for species free castings. Not that concerned about class feature free castings)
It's actually an incredibly simple concept, "one leveled spell per turn"
Except that wasn't the rule. That is what it got simplified down to.
Yes and no. It's one spell slot to cast spells per turn. Free castings are not restricted in this way. Whether by being a cantrip, a ritual, or from an item (scroll, staff, wand) or special ability (Favored Enemy).
If it doesn't require a slot, you can cast it in the same turn as a spell with a slot.
Every caster that doesn't get free-casting features is now disadvantaged to a massive degree in favor of those who do.
That's 2024 5e design. "Screw you for playing the wrong build."
It is an interesting place you occupy on these new rules: where the 2024 Ranger is deeply underpowered for having free castings of a 1st level spell, but 2024 casters with free castings of a 1st level spell are now 'massively advantaged' over those without.
It's actually an incredibly simple concept, "one leveled spell per turn"
Except that wasn't the rule. That is what it got simplified down to.
Yes and no. It's one spell slot to cast spells per turn. Free castings are not restricted in this way. Whether by being a cantrip, a ritual, or from an item (scroll, staff, wand) or special ability (Favored Enemy).
If it doesn't require a slot, you can cast it in the same turn as a spell with a slot.
Every caster that doesn't get free-casting features is now disadvantaged to a massive degree in favor of those who do.
That's 2024 5e design. "Screw you for playing the wrong build."
“Disadvantaged to a massive degree” by something someone else can do 1/day? I think I must have a different idea of what massive means.
And, of course, those casters without a free casting feature have something else going for them. Different species abilities, different feat benefits, what have you. And sometimes, those other abilities will be just the right one to save the day. Then who’s disadvantaged to a massive degree, I wonder?
Every caster that doesn't get free-casting features is now disadvantaged to a massive degree in favor of those who do.
The vast majority of free-casting features are irrelevant, either because the class has no way to exploit this issue, or because it's not a spell where being able to cast it in the same turn as another spell is particularly useful.
As far as I know, the only classes that get free castings are Rangers, Paladins, or Warlock. Aside from the Warlock invocations, almost all free castings are limited to 1/day or a small number (based on an ability modifier).
Spells from scrolls or other magic items also more universal to most spellcasting classes. Though some magic items may be more restricted (like Staff of Power).
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It is an interesting place you occupy on these new rules: where the 2024 Ranger is deeply underpowered for having free castings of a 1st level spell, but 2024 casters with free castings of a 1st level spell are now 'massively advantaged' over those without.
As far as I know, the only classes that get free castings are Rangers, Paladins, or Warlock. Aside from the Warlock invocations, almost all free castings are limited to 1/day or a small number (based on an ability modifier).
Spells from scrolls or other magic items also more universal to most spellcasting classes. Though some magic items may be more restricted (like Staff of Power).
There are several more (Wizard Spell Mastery/Signature, Cleric Divine Intervention, Land Druid Natural Recovery etc) but in all cases those are balanced by slotless spells being cast at their minimum power level. I can't think of any free spells that are overpowered for the level you get them, even if you can then cast a different leveled spell on the same turn.
As far as I know, the only classes that get free castings are Rangers, Paladins, or Warlock.
Well, there's wizard spell mastery. There's also some free spells granted by species and feats. Hard to see either one being super important, though.
Wizard Spell Mastery is also somewhat tamed by being restricted to spells which take an Action to cast, so no casting Misty Step or Shield ad infinitum. We need to see the actual spells, but I’m not sure which ones would be problematic. Currently, most of the 1st level damage spells are outperformed by cantrips by the time you get that feature.
Because that particular 1st-level is mediocre unless you're running a specific build to get four attacks per turn, and isn't exploitable with anything else the Ranger gets.
You don't need a 4-attack build. Even 2 attacks (+2d6) per round is okay damage for a 1st-level slot, and most builds can get to 3 without trying. For comparison, Witch Bolt is +1d12 per round from the same slot, which is actually less damage on average, and ends early if the enemy leisurely strolls away from you on top of being a less reliable damage type. The fact that Rangers who optimize even slightly can get more attacks than that is a good thing.
This is after you've spent countless days deriding anyone who played Ranger for any reason other than Hunter's Mark and who think Ranger should be playable if you aren't running one specific build and subclass.
1) Ranger is quite playable without running one specific build and subclass. If you don't know how to build one I'll be happy to help you.
2) I play Rangers for lots of reasons besides Hunter's Mark. That I prefer the spell and its associated features to the nothing ribbons we got in 2014 doesn't mean my Rangers wouldn't be doing other things too.
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Interesting video
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Rangers are going to be great melee fighters in water. Very nice. 22:55.
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A lot of that was pretty expected given UA, but "one spell with a spell slot per turn" is certainly a lot less likely to cause confusion than the existing rule for bonus action spells. I will say that the way Hiding works seems... not fixed, just broken in new and different ways.
I am very fond of the Bonus Spell/Leveled Spell change. The old rule was extremely annoying to explain to new players and even some veteran players.
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100% agreed. I think that makes it extremely simple and as Treantmonk explained, opens up some other options for those who have species' inherent magic or feats that don't use spell slots. Pretty neat.
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Except that wasn't the rule. That is what it got simplified down to.
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ModeratorYes and no. It's one spell slot to cast spells per turn. Free castings are not restricted in this way. Whether by being a cantrip, a ritual, or from an item (scroll, staff, wand) or special ability (Favored Enemy).
If it doesn't require a slot, you can cast it in the same turn as a spell with a slot.
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Yes. "One spell slot per turn" is easier than "One leveled spell except when blah blah blah etc"
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Exactly!
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Thank goodness the bonus action spell casting rule is gone
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I think it depends on what that free casting feature is that will affect how advantageous or not it is, power-wise. Obviously free castings are always an advantage. And Magic Initiate is a background feat so even there you can pick up something if you don’t get it elsewhere.
I get what you are saying and I do wish that was addressed. (Edit: at least for species free castings. Not that concerned about class feature free castings)
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It is an interesting place you occupy on these new rules: where the 2024 Ranger is deeply underpowered for having free castings of a 1st level spell, but 2024 casters with free castings of a 1st level spell are now 'massively advantaged' over those without.
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“Disadvantaged to a massive degree” by something someone else can do 1/day? I think I must have a different idea of what massive means.
And, of course, those casters without a free casting feature have something else going for them. Different species abilities, different feat benefits, what have you. And sometimes, those other abilities will be just the right one to save the day. Then who’s disadvantaged to a massive degree, I wonder?
The vast majority of free-casting features are irrelevant, either because the class has no way to exploit this issue, or because it's not a spell where being able to cast it in the same turn as another spell is particularly useful.
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ModeratorAs far as I know, the only classes that get free castings are Rangers, Paladins, or Warlock. Aside from the Warlock invocations, almost all free castings are limited to 1/day or a small number (based on an ability modifier).
Spells from scrolls or other magic items also more universal to most spellcasting classes. Though some magic items may be more restricted (like Staff of Power).
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Well, there's wizard spell mastery. There's also some free spells granted by species and feats. Hard to see either one being super important, though.
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ModeratorYeah. One of those is at 18th level. The other is available to all classes.
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I call it Schrodinger's Ranger-Hate.
There are several more (Wizard Spell Mastery/Signature, Cleric Divine Intervention, Land Druid Natural Recovery etc) but in all cases those are balanced by slotless spells being cast at their minimum power level. I can't think of any free spells that are overpowered for the level you get them, even if you can then cast a different leveled spell on the same turn.
Wizard Spell Mastery is also somewhat tamed by being restricted to spells which take an Action to cast, so no casting Misty Step or Shield ad infinitum. We need to see the actual spells, but I’m not sure which ones would be problematic. Currently, most of the 1st level damage spells are outperformed by cantrips by the time you get that feature.
You don't need a 4-attack build. Even 2 attacks (+2d6) per round is okay damage for a 1st-level slot, and most builds can get to 3 without trying. For comparison, Witch Bolt is +1d12 per round from the same slot, which is actually less damage on average, and ends early if the enemy leisurely strolls away from you on top of being a less reliable damage type. The fact that Rangers who optimize even slightly can get more attacks than that is a good thing.
"Doing a thing the designers intended you to be able to do" isn't "abuse."
1) Ranger is quite playable without running one specific build and subclass. If you don't know how to build one I'll be happy to help you.
2) I play Rangers for lots of reasons besides Hunter's Mark. That I prefer the spell and its associated features to the nothing ribbons we got in 2014 doesn't mean my Rangers wouldn't be doing other things too.