My brother decided to join me in a Descent into Avernus campaign and he asked me for advice to build a Rogue. However, I never played a Rogue and dont know how to properly build one. Could you guys chip in?
Best Subclasses? *He kinda likes the Swashbuckler and Arcane Trickster.
Races?
Backgrounds?
Builds?
Good ol' tips?
edit: Ok, now he said he likes both Swashbuckler and Arcane Trickster.
There is no best subclass. They each have a very different niche and none of them strictly obsoletes another. If your brother enjoys the Swashbuckler, why not go with that one?
The best races for combat are generally the ones that increase Dexterity or give you the ability to hide in unusual circumstances (e.g. Wood Elf, Lightfoot Halfling.) Any race that boosts DEX is good enough though. Outside of combat, intelligence, wisdom and charisma can all be useful depending on whether they want to focus on scouting, finding traps, or social interactions.
Backgrounds rarely matter for optimization; they're mainly there to round out your story and give your DM some narrative hooks. Pick one that fits your story.
The Rogue relies far more on the stealth and hiding rules than any other class. Those rules are inherently DM-dependent. Make sure you understand those rules well and double-check with your DM how they handle common hiding scenarios. As for swashbucklers, the subclass is designed to exploit two-weapon fighting more so than other rogue archetypes.
The main difference in the subclasses is in their level 3 ability. Trickster uses magic, assassin takes advantage of surprise when possible, inquisitive can analyze opponents to get sneak attack, mastermind helps allies land their attacks, scout can run away after someone moves up to them, swashbuckler can sneak attack 1v1, thief uses items.
Arcane Trickster is probably the most versatile rogue class, since you can cover for a lot of the features of other rogue classes through smart spell choices.
The one thing you can also think about as a rogue is whether or not you want to be a skill monkey with a proficiency for any occasion, or if you wanna go full damage. With expertise, rogues can be good at skills most people ignore, or you can be extra good at standard rogue stuff like stealth and stuff.
Arcane Trickster is probably the most versatile rogue class, since you can cover for a lot of the features of other rogue classes through smart spell choices.
How is Arcane Trickster compared to Swashbuckler in terms of difficulty?
Cause he is also not an experienced player, as you might already imagined. He played like 3 campaigns with me, all of them incomplete. I would say he played somethin like 30 sessions or so. So he is like me, beginner/intermediate level.
All Caster classes are a little more challenging if only because there's more bookkeeping involved... you've got to keep track of spell slots, read all the spell options to decide which to learn, and then know when and where to use specific spells. Swashbuckler is probably one of the easier Rogue types to really take advantage of... you get more opportunities for Sneak Attack without needing to do elaborate set ups or anything, and it gives you increased mobility options. If they're just wanting to have fun in combat and aren't good at keeping up with pages of spells and abilities, then Swashbuckler is one of the better choices.
Arcane trickster is harder because of spells. Spell mechanics can be difficult. Swashbuckler is pretty easy. They basically always get sneak attack damage except for when fighting two enemies right next to eachother by yourself.
As far as Races go I prefer High Elf for arcane trickster - gain an extra cantrip & +1 intelligence score bump. For the other sub classes I prefer Wood Elf - 35' movement, mask of the wild feature, & +1 wisdom score bump (helps with perception). Also, both Elves give +2 to Dex score.
In my opinion the most interesting rogues from an RP or non-combat standpoint are the inquisitive and Mastermind. The swashbuckler can be super fun though. I mean... You're basically a pirate. You could model it after pretty much any pirate from history or literature. Jack Sparrow? Anne Bonny? Count of Monte Cristo?! So many awesome characters to pull inspiration from.
AT I think can get into a lot of mischief. That's how I'd play it anyway. Constantly using invisible mage hand to pick pockets or start fights so you can dip into the cash register without anyone noticing. Or play it more magnanimously and only do that to people that deserve it like a magical Robin hood. Loki is a great character to model an arcane trickster after.
In my opinion the most interesting rogues from an RP or non-combat standpoint are the inquisitive and Mastermind. The swashbuckler can be super fun though. I mean... You're basically a pirate. You could model it after pretty much any pirate from history or literature. Jack Sparrow? Anne Bonny? Count of Monte Cristo?! So many awesome characters to pull inspiration from.
The interesting thing about the Swashbuckler class is that there's really nothing about the class (other than the name) that has anything to do with Piracy. So while there's plenty of pirates to draw inspiration from, you can really play the character any way you want... Robin Hood is actually a good example of a character who fits the Swashbuckler mould (in particular, specializing in acts charisma and one-on-one combat) who doesn't have any obvious relation to piracy.
In my opinion the most interesting rogues from an RP or non-combat standpoint are the inquisitive and Mastermind. The swashbuckler can be super fun though. I mean... You're basically a pirate. You could model it after pretty much any pirate from history or literature. Jack Sparrow? Anne Bonny? Count of Monte Cristo?! So many awesome characters to pull inspiration from.
The interesting thing about the Swashbuckler class is that there's really nothing about the class (other than the name) that has anything to do with Piracy. So while there's plenty of pirates to draw inspiration from, you can really play the character any way you want... Robin Hood is actually a good example of a character who fits the Swashbuckler mould (in particular, specializing in acts charisma and one-on-one combat) who doesn't have any obvious relation to piracy.
Arcane trickster is harder because of spells. Spell mechanics can be difficult. Swashbuckler is pretty easy. They basically always get sneak attack damage except for when fighting two enemies right next to eachother by yourself.
That said, I would still recommend someone just starting out with D&D try some casting with their first character, not just to give them a taste of the broader span of character options, but also so they're not totally overwhelmed when they do first try a casting class.
A 1/3rd caster like Arcabe Trickster or Eldritch Knight is in my opinion, the perfect amount of casting for a new player to familiarize themselves with the game.
Arcane trickster is harder because of spells. Spell mechanics can be difficult. Swashbuckler is pretty easy. They basically always get sneak attack damage except for when fighting two enemies right next to eachother by yourself.
That said, I would still recommend someone just starting out with D&D try some casting with their first character, not just to give them a taste of the broader span of character options, but also so they're not totally overwhelmed when they do first try a casting class.
A 1/3rd caster like Arcabe Trickster or Eldritch Knight is in my opinion, the perfect amount of casting for a new player to familiarize themselves with the game.
I don't necessarily disagree. I was just commenting on which was easier. There is plenty to learn even without spells.
Best advice, think about what rogues inspire your character, then pick the closest thing. Nothing beats playing a character just because you like them.
5th Edition is fairly forgiving and I feel that it can be hard to make a bad character. More important is making a character that appeals to your brother, rather than worry about making an optimal character. An attack score isn't going to keep players coming back to the table, however, an interesting character will. Beyond that, 5E is set up to tutorialise players with their skills, so just playing a rogue from 1st level should teach him how to play a rogue. Ideally, anyhow.
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My brother decided to join me in a Descent into Avernus campaign and he asked me for advice to build a Rogue. However, I never played a Rogue and dont know how to properly build one. Could you guys chip in?
edit: Ok, now he said he likes both Swashbuckler and Arcane Trickster.
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The main difference in the subclasses is in their level 3 ability. Trickster uses magic, assassin takes advantage of surprise when possible, inquisitive can analyze opponents to get sneak attack, mastermind helps allies land their attacks, scout can run away after someone moves up to them, swashbuckler can sneak attack 1v1, thief uses items.
I think you asked a similar question in a thread titled "Warlocks & Rogues", didn't you?
Also, this kind of thing should go in the Rogue forum. You will find a lot of Rogue enthusiasts there.
Yes! I showed him that thread and thats when he got interested in Rogue! =)
edit: He just read more about Arcane Trickster and said that he liked that one too
Arcane Trickster is probably the most versatile rogue class, since you can cover for a lot of the features of other rogue classes through smart spell choices.
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The one thing you can also think about as a rogue is whether or not you want to be a skill monkey with a proficiency for any occasion, or if you wanna go full damage. With expertise, rogues can be good at skills most people ignore, or you can be extra good at standard rogue stuff like stealth and stuff.
How is Arcane Trickster compared to Swashbuckler in terms of difficulty?
Cause he is also not an experienced player, as you might already imagined. He played like 3 campaigns with me, all of them incomplete. I would say he played somethin like 30 sessions or so. So he is like me, beginner/intermediate level.
All Caster classes are a little more challenging if only because there's more bookkeeping involved... you've got to keep track of spell slots, read all the spell options to decide which to learn, and then know when and where to use specific spells. Swashbuckler is probably one of the easier Rogue types to really take advantage of... you get more opportunities for Sneak Attack without needing to do elaborate set ups or anything, and it gives you increased mobility options. If they're just wanting to have fun in combat and aren't good at keeping up with pages of spells and abilities, then Swashbuckler is one of the better choices.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Arcane trickster is harder because of spells. Spell mechanics can be difficult. Swashbuckler is pretty easy. They basically always get sneak attack damage except for when fighting two enemies right next to eachother by yourself.
As far as Races go I prefer High Elf for arcane trickster - gain an extra cantrip & +1 intelligence score bump. For the other sub classes I prefer Wood Elf - 35' movement, mask of the wild feature, & +1 wisdom score bump (helps with perception). Also, both Elves give +2 to Dex score.
And how do you feel about them off-combat? RPing, solving problems, etc...
In my opinion the most interesting rogues from an RP or non-combat standpoint are the inquisitive and Mastermind. The swashbuckler can be super fun though. I mean... You're basically a pirate. You could model it after pretty much any pirate from history or literature. Jack Sparrow? Anne Bonny? Count of Monte Cristo?! So many awesome characters to pull inspiration from.
AT I think can get into a lot of mischief. That's how I'd play it anyway. Constantly using invisible mage hand to pick pockets or start fights so you can dip into the cash register without anyone noticing. Or play it more magnanimously and only do that to people that deserve it like a magical Robin hood. Loki is a great character to model an arcane trickster after.
The interesting thing about the Swashbuckler class is that there's really nothing about the class (other than the name) that has anything to do with Piracy. So while there's plenty of pirates to draw inspiration from, you can really play the character any way you want... Robin Hood is actually a good example of a character who fits the Swashbuckler mould (in particular, specializing in acts charisma and one-on-one combat) who doesn't have any obvious relation to piracy.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Very true! But when in doubt, play a pirate :)
Yaarrrrrr
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That said, I would still recommend someone just starting out with D&D try some casting with their first character, not just to give them a taste of the broader span of character options, but also so they're not totally overwhelmed when they do first try a casting class.
A 1/3rd caster like Arcabe Trickster or Eldritch Knight is in my opinion, the perfect amount of casting for a new player to familiarize themselves with the game.
I don't necessarily disagree. I was just commenting on which was easier. There is plenty to learn even without spells.
Best advice, think about what rogues inspire your character, then pick the closest thing. Nothing beats playing a character just because you like them.
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5th Edition is fairly forgiving and I feel that it can be hard to make a bad character. More important is making a character that appeals to your brother, rather than worry about making an optimal character. An attack score isn't going to keep players coming back to the table, however, an interesting character will. Beyond that, 5E is set up to tutorialise players with their skills, so just playing a rogue from 1st level should teach him how to play a rogue. Ideally, anyhow.