I have came across some gold bars, however I'd like to break it down into smaller more manageable and 'barter-able' sizes. I doubt most tavern owners can 'break a 5,000' haha Is there any skills, alchemy for example and so on, or spells, that could help me break them down to smaller sizes without damaging the bars a substantial amount? Any advice is appreciated!
Well, the most appropriate would probably either be jeweler's tools, or tinker's tools. It really all depends on which one your DM would apply to whitesmithing. Blacksmiths worked with ferrous metals like iron/steel, whitesmiths worked with metals like gold or silver. But honestly, if you don’t need to be too careful, all you really need is proficiency with an axe.
If you aren't minting new coins(which would probably get you in big trouble), you are just selling gold by weight. Uneven chunks, bits and dust would be irrelevant.
Fabricate would certainly work and be thequickest way for breaking down into small pieces. Making coins wouldrequire a "high degree of craftsmanship" so would require proficiency in apporriate artisans tools (probably blacksmith or jeweller's).
For a more mundane approach the easist way would probably to get access to a blacksmiths forge, melt it down and caste it into smaller pieces.
Cutting woud also be possible, probably best with a saw, this would however create quite a bit of dust, it wwould be up to your DM (andyour inginuity) to determine how much of that dust you are able to gather.
Well, the most appropriate would probably either be jeweler's tools, or tinker's tools. It really all depends on which one your DM would apply to whitesmithing. Blacksmiths worked with ferrous metals like iron/steel, whitesmiths worked with metals like gold or silver. But honestly, if you don’t need to be too careful, all you really need is proficiency with an axe.
Blacksmiths work precious metals as well. Minimum, mithril is associated more with silver than with iron, but on a more mundane level, silvered weapons are a thing and so are inlays. An axe would be a bad idea, actually. If looking at that level of accuracy, using an axe would be a bad idea, since even though gold is a relatively soft metal, it is still very dense and attempting to chop it would not be good for a blade.
Mithral, doesn’t exist IRL.
IRL, blacksmiths that are not also whitesmiths usually either send their work out for things like precious inlays, or employ a whitesmith in-house for exactly that type of work.
They have an “app” for that, it’s called the application of a whetstone.
One of my closest friends, our group’s most prolific DM, and a player in almost every campaign I have DMed for the last 20 years happens to be a blacksmith.
The rules difference between a blacksmith and a whitesmith in D&D is that there isn't one. So you can go to somebody who can change a gold ingot into gold coins if you want to look.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The rules difference between a blacksmith and a whitesmith in D&D is that there isn't one. So you can go to somebody who can change a gold ingot into gold coins if you want to look.
Technically, a Tinker is a whitesmith, as tin is a nonferrous metal. Also, a jeweler would be a whitesmith. So someone proficient with either Tinker's Tools or Jeweler's Tools would be a whitesmith.
Well, the most appropriate would probably either be jeweler's tools, or tinker's tools. It really all depends on which one your DM would apply to whitesmithing. Blacksmiths worked with ferrous metals like iron/steel, whitesmiths worked with metals like gold or silver. But honestly, if you don’t need to be too careful, all you really need is proficiency with an axe.
Blacksmiths work precious metals as well. Minimum, mithril is associated more with silver than with iron, but on a more mundane level, silvered weapons are a thing and so are inlays. An axe would be a bad idea, actually. If looking at that level of accuracy, using an axe would be a bad idea, since even though gold is a relatively soft metal, it is still very dense and attempting to chop it would not be good for a blade.
Mithral, doesn’t exist IRL.
IRL, blacksmiths that are not also whitesmiths usually either send their work out for things like precious inlays, or employ a whitesmith in-house for exactly that type of work.
They have an “app” for that, it’s called the application of a whetstone.
One of my closest friends, our group’s most prolific DM, and a player in almost every campaign I have DMed for the last 20 years happens to be a blacksmith.
I am quite certain, though, that the OP is not asking how one would handle the situation in real life. In real life one would not pay one's bar tab with any other form of gold other than perhaps a gold credit card. But that would be made of plastic and almost certainly contain no actual gold whatsoever.
Ask your friend though if he thinks an axe is a wise tool to use to break up gold bars. Whetstones are all very well and fine but there are limits to how much damage they can compensate for.
At one point, people did use actual gold to purchase things. In fact, I could go to a bar with gold dollar coins and still purchase a beer.
And his answer would be that it depends on the type of axe and the thickness of gold. One would never use a weapon to chop up an ingot, but a tool would be highly appropriate.
In context with that, personally I would say that blacksmithing covers all metalwork....
Then you would be wrong. Why the heck do you think they bothered with tinker's tools then? Do you not realize that “tinker” is another term for “tin smith,” or is it that you don't know that tin is a metal? Are you unaware that most jewelers are by default “gold/silver smiths” as part of their frikin’ jobs?!? Or are you just unaware that “tin smithing” and “silver smithing” are both forms of “whitesmithing?”
It's like you actively look for things I say that you can try to disprove only to show your ignorance in the process.
Thank you for all the replies. You all answered the question and other questions I was going to ask after that! The gold bars could be as large as 25,000gp in value. So I was looking to 'cut' them down to sections around 500gp or less each. That way they're in a more manageable size that can be bartered with.
Sorry. Another user in another forum made a highly insensitive remark that applied directly to one of my players, and some family members, and I was a bit extra irritable.
The reasons why blacksmiths don’t work with metals like gold are the same reasons why a Tinker’s work with steel or iron is limited in scope. They require different equipment.
Blacksmiths weld metals and work with temperatures inappropriate for softer metals. Their crucibles would be full of “impurities” that would devalue the gold, and the gold residue left in the crucible would leave “impurities” that would taint further ironwork or steelwork. Blacksmiths forges are specifically designed to help get carbon into the metal. Blacksmiths also wouldn’t likely have dies or molds that would produce anything smaller than the original ingot.
Whitesmiths like Tinkers or Jewelers solder metal pieces together, which requires different equipment and certain chemicals. Their crucibles and temperatures, dies, molds, would all be highly appropriate for working with gold. Their forges are better designed to keep all impurities out.
So, while a Blacksmith could technically do it, they would probably charge more because they would need new equipment, the purity of the gold would be much lower, and the pieces would less regular. Of course, most likely, the blacksmith would not even bother melting the ingot, they would likely just do the same thing that the Tinker would do as their 1st step: break the ingot down into smaller pieces with a chisel and a hammer. Only difference, the blacksmith would give you back raw chunks, the tinker could give you back small slips (like baby ingots), and the jeweler could jive you back hack-bracelets. (Back in the day, people just made bracelets out of gold or silver and would literally just cut chunks off with a sharp knife to pay for stuff.)
Looking at a dictionary there are two possible definitions of a tinker that are possible relevent for tinker's tools in D&D:
a person (traditionally a *****) who traveled from place to place mending pots and kettles and other metal utensils as a way to earn a living
a person who enjoys fixing and experimenting with machines and their parts
I have always assumed that the second definitions due to the cost of the tools and the magical tinkering ability of the artificer (that requires tinkers tools). I was not aware of tinker being another term for tinsmith, I noticed it is in wikipedia but not in my doctionary.
Looking at a dictionary there are two possible definitions of a tinker that are possible relevent for tinker's tools in D&D:
a person (traditionally a *****) who traveled from place to place mending pots and kettles and other metal utensils as a way to earn a living
a person who enjoys fixing and experimenting with machines and their parts
I have always assumed that the second definitions due to the cost of the tools and the magical tinkering ability of the artificer (that requires tinkers tools). I was not aware of tinker being another term for tinsmith, I noticed it is in wikipedia but not in my dictionary.
Tinker’s started repairing things because they had the tools and the skills as tinsmiths who often created those pots and pans new as well. Working copper and tin basically require the same tools. And smelting copper and tin together made bronze. Those tools involve soldering irons and small clamps, crimps, and other equipment. Those are also appropriate tools to create and repair small machines. All three of those definitions all arose from the use of the same sets of tools.
And in D&D, those things follow the Tool Proficiency, not any Skill.
Sorry. Another user in another forum made a highly insensitive remark that applied directly to one of my players, and some family members, and I was a bit extra irritable.
The reasons why blacksmiths don’t work with metals like gold are the same reasons why a Tinker’s work with steel or iron is limited in scope. They require different equipment.
Blacksmiths weld metals and work with temperatures inappropriate for softer metals. Their crucibles would be full of “impurities” that would devalue the gold, and the gold residue left in the crucible would leave “impurities” that would taint further ironwork or steelwork. Blacksmiths forges are specifically designed to help get carbon into the metal. Blacksmiths also wouldn’t likely have dies or molds that would produce anything smaller than the original ingot.
Whitesmiths like Tinkers or Jewelers solder metal pieces together, which requires different equipment and certain chemicals. Their crucibles and temperatures, dies, molds, would all be highly appropriate for working with gold. Their forges are better designed to keep all impurities out.
So, while a Blacksmith could technically do it, they would probably charge more because they would need new equipment, the purity of the gold would be much lower, and the pieces would less regular. Of course, most likely, the blacksmith would not even bother melting the ingot, they would likely just do the same thing that the Tinker would do as their 1st step: break the ingot down into smaller pieces with a chisel and a hammer. Only difference, the blacksmith would give you back raw chunks, the tinker could give you back small slips (like baby ingots), and the jeweler could jive you back hack-bracelets. (Back in the day, people just made bracelets out of gold or silver and would literally just cut chunks off with a sharp knife to pay for stuff.)
Oh I agree that they might not want to do so. However they could. Heck, even jeweler and goldsmith are technically separate professions but so often one learns the other as well that for game purposes they are typically treated as combined.
My point though is that there is a lot of skill overlap.
My point is, in 5e, these things don’t follow any Skill proficiencies, they follow the tool proficiencies. And the tools are different.
Hi all,
I have came across some gold bars, however I'd like to break it down into smaller more manageable and 'barter-able' sizes. I doubt most tavern owners can 'break a 5,000' haha Is there any skills, alchemy for example and so on, or spells, that could help me break them down to smaller sizes without damaging the bars a substantial amount? Any advice is appreciated!
Well, the most appropriate would probably either be jeweler's tools, or tinker's tools. It really all depends on which one your DM would apply to whitesmithing. Blacksmiths worked with ferrous metals like iron/steel, whitesmiths worked with metals like gold or silver. But honestly, if you don’t need to be too careful, all you really need is proficiency with an axe.
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Proficiency in Great Axe.
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If you aren't minting new coins(which would probably get you in big trouble), you are just selling gold by weight. Uneven chunks, bits and dust would be irrelevant.
Or just go to the money changer before you go to the bar.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Fabricate would certainly work and be thequickest way for breaking down into small pieces. Making coins wouldrequire a "high degree of craftsmanship" so would require proficiency in apporriate artisans tools (probably blacksmith or jeweller's).
For a more mundane approach the easist way would probably to get access to a blacksmiths forge, melt it down and caste it into smaller pieces.
Cutting woud also be possible, probably best with a saw, this would however create quite a bit of dust, it wwould be up to your DM (andyour inginuity) to determine how much of that dust you are able to gather.
Mithral, doesn’t exist IRL.
IRL, blacksmiths that are not also whitesmiths usually either send their work out for things like precious inlays, or employ a whitesmith in-house for exactly that type of work.
They have an “app” for that, it’s called the application of a whetstone.
One of my closest friends, our group’s most prolific DM, and a player in almost every campaign I have DMed for the last 20 years happens to be a blacksmith.
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The rules difference between a blacksmith and a whitesmith in D&D is that there isn't one. So you can go to somebody who can change a gold ingot into gold coins if you want to look.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Technically, a Tinker is a whitesmith, as tin is a nonferrous metal. Also, a jeweler would be a whitesmith. So someone proficient with either Tinker's Tools or Jeweler's Tools would be a whitesmith.
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At one point, people did use actual gold to purchase things. In fact, I could go to a bar with gold dollar coins and still purchase a beer.
And his answer would be that it depends on the type of axe and the thickness of gold. One would never use a weapon to chop up an ingot, but a tool would be highly appropriate.
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Then you would be wrong. Why the heck do you think they bothered with tinker's tools then? Do you not realize that “tinker” is another term for “tin smith,” or is it that you don't know that tin is a metal? Are you unaware that most jewelers are by default “gold/silver smiths” as part of their frikin’ jobs?!? Or are you just unaware that “tin smithing” and “silver smithing” are both forms of “whitesmithing?”
It's like you actively look for things I say that you can try to disprove only to show your ignorance in the process.
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Thank you for all the replies. You all answered the question and other questions I was going to ask after that! The gold bars could be as large as 25,000gp in value. So I was looking to 'cut' them down to sections around 500gp or less each. That way they're in a more manageable size that can be bartered with.
Sorry. Another user in another forum made a highly insensitive remark that applied directly to one of my players, and some family members, and I was a bit extra irritable.
The reasons why blacksmiths don’t work with metals like gold are the same reasons why a Tinker’s work with steel or iron is limited in scope. They require different equipment.
Blacksmiths weld metals and work with temperatures inappropriate for softer metals. Their crucibles would be full of “impurities” that would devalue the gold, and the gold residue left in the crucible would leave “impurities” that would taint further ironwork or steelwork. Blacksmiths forges are specifically designed to help get carbon into the metal. Blacksmiths also wouldn’t likely have dies or molds that would produce anything smaller than the original ingot.
Whitesmiths like Tinkers or Jewelers solder metal pieces together, which requires different equipment and certain chemicals. Their crucibles and temperatures, dies, molds, would all be highly appropriate for working with gold. Their forges are better designed to keep all impurities out.
So, while a Blacksmith could technically do it, they would probably charge more because they would need new equipment, the purity of the gold would be much lower, and the pieces would less regular. Of course, most likely, the blacksmith would not even bother melting the ingot, they would likely just do the same thing that the Tinker would do as their 1st step: break the ingot down into smaller pieces with a chisel and a hammer. Only difference, the blacksmith would give you back raw chunks, the tinker could give you back small slips (like baby ingots), and the jeweler could jive you back hack-bracelets. (Back in the day, people just made bracelets out of gold or silver and would literally just cut chunks off with a sharp knife to pay for stuff.)
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Looking at a dictionary there are two possible definitions of a tinker that are possible relevent for tinker's tools in D&D:
a person (traditionally a *****) who traveled from place to place mending pots and kettles and other metal utensils as a way to earn a living
a person who enjoys fixing and experimenting with machines and their parts
I have always assumed that the second definitions due to the cost of the tools and the magical tinkering ability of the artificer (that requires tinkers tools). I was not aware of tinker being another term for tinsmith, I noticed it is in wikipedia but not in my doctionary.
Tinker’s started repairing things because they had the tools and the skills as tinsmiths who often created those pots and pans new as well. Working copper and tin basically require the same tools. And smelting copper and tin together made bronze. Those tools involve soldering irons and small clamps, crimps, and other equipment. Those are also appropriate tools to create and repair small machines. All three of those definitions all arose from the use of the same sets of tools.
And in D&D, those things follow the Tool Proficiency, not any Skill.
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My point is, in 5e, these things don’t follow any Skill proficiencies, they follow the tool proficiencies. And the tools are different.
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Yes, tools are different.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale