I'm looking at homebrewing a Net of Entanglement for one of the players in my group. Naturally I am looking at the stats for a mundane Net, and the stats for a Rope of Entanglement to see if I can cross breed them into something (relatively) new.
A Net requires a successful attack roll to restrain the intended target.
A Rope of Entanglement requires a Dex Save from the intended target to avoid being restrained.
My original instinct was to go with the attack roll (it would use an attack action) but I am worried that it might make this become too overpowered of an item, especially as the character levels up and their attack bonus increases.
For those of you with more homebrewing experience, or any crunch-hawks out there, what do you think? Attack roll? Or Saving Throw? Does it matter that much?
A Net with the rope of entanglement enchantment on it that rolls to hit is very nearly just a Net, so I'm not following what exactly you're planning on giving the Net of Entanglement to make it better than the non-magical kind - do you want to increase its range to 20? Give it better AC and HP? Make its STR check DC 15, like with the Rope?
Put another way, how do you want the Net to differ from the Rope of Entanglement?
Targeting a dexterity save is more powerful than targeting AC at low levels, for sure, because it's a lot easier to put on a suit of armor than it is to get a high Dex save bonus. But that's comparing an attack roll to an attacker-dependent save DC. If you want a static DC on the net of 15, you need to compare it to the spell save DC the thrower would have if it was attacker-dependent to assess its balance at the time you issue it (15 is the standard save DC of a level 5 character who specced into their relevant stat at level 4).
If you want the net to scale with the wielder, you should look at the wording on the Web spell. A net that is functionally a throwable 5x5x5 Web spell is roughly on par with any uncommon item, no worries about balance (in fact, it's slightly underpowered). If anyone escaping the net generally permanently destroys it, don't require attunement, but do require it if the net reliably regenerates. Note that Web spell webbing can be burned, but can't be usefully slashed.
So basically, your concern is that making a net with +5 higher escape DC is overpowered.
It is definitely worth being a rare magic item. Rare magic items are, well, rare. The party usually finds their first 1 around level 5, and won't have 1 each until level 7. Another thing to consider is that it can be destroyed somewhat easily.
So basically, your concern is that making a net with +5 higher escape DC is overpowered.
It is definitely worth being a rare magic item. Rare magic items are, well, rare. The party usually finds their first 1 around level 5, and won't have 1 each until level 7. Another thing to consider is that it can be destroyed somewhat easily.
I don't think it's worth being rare, to be honest, because of how ridiculously consumable it is. An actual Wand of Web is only uncommon and leaps and bounds better.
I'm looking at homebrewing a Net of Entanglement for one of the players in my group. Naturally I am looking at the stats for a mundane Net, and the stats for a Rope of Entanglement to see if I can cross breed them into something (relatively) new.
A Net requires a successful attack roll to restrain the intended target.
A Rope of Entanglement requires a Dex Save from the intended target to avoid being restrained.
My original instinct was to go with the attack roll (it would use an attack action) but I am worried that it might make this become too overpowered of an item, especially as the character levels up and their attack bonus increases.
For those of you with more homebrewing experience, or any crunch-hawks out there, what do you think? Attack roll? Or Saving Throw? Does it matter that much?
I'd consider the extreme ends of potential targets - a creature with high AC and low DEX (a slow, armored soldier) vs. a creature with low AC and high DEX (unarmored but quick).
If the net is an attack roll, it will be easier to catch the quick guys. If it's a DEX save it's easier to catch the soldiers.
One other thing to consider is that even though it may be easier to overcome AC as you level up, the slow armored guys typically don't care if they move a lot anyway once they are engaged. Alternately, restraining a quick monster is typically going to thoroughly ruin its day. On the other hand, the quick guy is more likely to have a decent ranged attack if you plan to trap the enemy and hit them from afar. At any rate, I'm not convinced that going the attack roll route will necessarily result in greater overall utility.
So basically, your concern is that making a net with +5 higher escape DC is overpowered.
It is definitely worth being a rare magic item. Rare magic items are, well, rare. The party usually finds their first 1 around level 5, and won't have 1 each until level 7. Another thing to consider is that it can be destroyed somewhat easily.
I don't think it's worth being rare, to be honest, because of how ridiculously consumable it is. An actual Wand of Web is only uncommon and leaps and bounds better.
A rope of entanglement is rare and this isn't much worse than that. Though the power levels of magic items of the same rarity are wildly inconsistent and this is on the low end of rare strength.
I still feel like it is much better than a +1 net which would be uncommon and even better than a rare +2 net if I'm honest.
Quindraco, Yes I was planning on giving it the AC and HP of the Rope of Entanglement, which makes it beefier than a plain net as well as giving it the Rope's ability to mend itself. I was also going to give it a standard +1 to attack and possibly even some damage - 1d4 or 1d2 from sharp hooks that grasp onto the target.
Scatterbraind, My fear of its becoming overpowered stemmed less from the immobilizing aspect of being restrained and more from the "attack rolls against the restrained target have advantage and attack rolls it makes have disadvantage". If it becomes too easy to hit someone with it, I could see it potentially being overused to give at least a rounds worth of advantage to everyone, and soaking up a target's action the next round as they get out of the net.
Quote from quindraco>>If you want the net to scale with the wielder, you should look at the wording on the Web spell. A net that is functionally a throwable 5x5x5 Web spell is roughly on par with any uncommon item, no worries about balance (in fact, it's slightly underpowered). If anyone escaping the net generally permanently destroys it, don't require attunement, but do require it if the net reliably regenerates. Note that Web spell webbing can be burned, but can't be usefully slashed.
This is good. I hadn't thought of this but I will definitely take a look at Web.
Bear with me as I am still new to 5e rules... I know that Spell Save DCs are 8+Proficiency Bonus+Relevant Ability Score Mod
But do weapons or anything else work in this way? Could I give the Net's Save DC 8+Proficiency Bonus+Dex Modifier?
Weapons don't, but you can as the GM. There are many subclasses that inflict saves with DCs based on STR, DEX, or CON. There's just nothing weird about a magic item that uses save DC 8+Prof+Dex.
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I'm looking at homebrewing a Net of Entanglement for one of the players in my group. Naturally I am looking at the stats for a mundane Net, and the stats for a Rope of Entanglement to see if I can cross breed them into something (relatively) new.
A Net requires a successful attack roll to restrain the intended target.
A Rope of Entanglement requires a Dex Save from the intended target to avoid being restrained.
My original instinct was to go with the attack roll (it would use an attack action) but I am worried that it might make this become too overpowered of an item, especially as the character levels up and their attack bonus increases.
For those of you with more homebrewing experience, or any crunch-hawks out there, what do you think? Attack roll? Or Saving Throw? Does it matter that much?
A Net with the rope of entanglement enchantment on it that rolls to hit is very nearly just a Net, so I'm not following what exactly you're planning on giving the Net of Entanglement to make it better than the non-magical kind - do you want to increase its range to 20? Give it better AC and HP? Make its STR check DC 15, like with the Rope?
Put another way, how do you want the Net to differ from the Rope of Entanglement?
Targeting a dexterity save is more powerful than targeting AC at low levels, for sure, because it's a lot easier to put on a suit of armor than it is to get a high Dex save bonus. But that's comparing an attack roll to an attacker-dependent save DC. If you want a static DC on the net of 15, you need to compare it to the spell save DC the thrower would have if it was attacker-dependent to assess its balance at the time you issue it (15 is the standard save DC of a level 5 character who specced into their relevant stat at level 4).
If you want the net to scale with the wielder, you should look at the wording on the Web spell. A net that is functionally a throwable 5x5x5 Web spell is roughly on par with any uncommon item, no worries about balance (in fact, it's slightly underpowered). If anyone escaping the net generally permanently destroys it, don't require attunement, but do require it if the net reliably regenerates. Note that Web spell webbing can be burned, but can't be usefully slashed.
So basically, your concern is that making a net with +5 higher escape DC is overpowered.
It is definitely worth being a rare magic item. Rare magic items are, well, rare. The party usually finds their first 1 around level 5, and won't have 1 each until level 7. Another thing to consider is that it can be destroyed somewhat easily.
I don't think it's worth being rare, to be honest, because of how ridiculously consumable it is. An actual Wand of Web is only uncommon and leaps and bounds better.
I'd consider the extreme ends of potential targets - a creature with high AC and low DEX (a slow, armored soldier) vs. a creature with low AC and high DEX (unarmored but quick).
If the net is an attack roll, it will be easier to catch the quick guys. If it's a DEX save it's easier to catch the soldiers.
One other thing to consider is that even though it may be easier to overcome AC as you level up, the slow armored guys typically don't care if they move a lot anyway once they are engaged. Alternately, restraining a quick monster is typically going to thoroughly ruin its day. On the other hand, the quick guy is more likely to have a decent ranged attack if you plan to trap the enemy and hit them from afar. At any rate, I'm not convinced that going the attack roll route will necessarily result in greater overall utility.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
A rope of entanglement is rare and this isn't much worse than that. Though the power levels of magic items of the same rarity are wildly inconsistent and this is on the low end of rare strength.
I still feel like it is much better than a +1 net which would be uncommon and even better than a rare +2 net if I'm honest.
In reply to all of your helpful comments:
Quindraco, Yes I was planning on giving it the AC and HP of the Rope of Entanglement, which makes it beefier than a plain net as well as giving it the Rope's ability to mend itself. I was also going to give it a standard +1 to attack and possibly even some damage - 1d4 or 1d2 from sharp hooks that grasp onto the target.
Scatterbraind, My fear of its becoming overpowered stemmed less from the immobilizing aspect of being restrained and more from the "attack rolls against the restrained target have advantage and attack rolls it makes have disadvantage". If it becomes too easy to hit someone with it, I could see it potentially being overused to give at least a rounds worth of advantage to everyone, and soaking up a target's action the next round as they get out of the net.
This is good. I hadn't thought of this but I will definitely take a look at Web.
Bear with me as I am still new to 5e rules... I know that Spell Save DCs are 8+Proficiency Bonus+Relevant Ability Score Mod
But do weapons or anything else work in this way? Could I give the Net's Save DC 8+Proficiency Bonus+Dex Modifier?
Usually not for magic items, but that doesn't mean it can't.
Weapons don't, but you can as the GM. There are many subclasses that inflict saves with DCs based on STR, DEX, or CON. There's just nothing weird about a magic item that uses save DC 8+Prof+Dex.