NOTE: I reposted this in the General Discussion and Dungeon Masters Only forums, since this isn't the most active forum, and more people are likely to see it this way. EDIT: Moderators deleted the reposts. Oh well, I probably shouldn't have done it anyway.
So, last night I ran 2 identical battles, which consisted of a mage and a load of orc minions on one side vs a party consisting of a wizard, a rogue, and a fighter. The wizard fought the mage and the rest of the party handled the orcs, cause there was no way to reach the mage without using an action to Dash, and the rogue and fighter had a hand crossbow and some javelins respectively. In the first fight, I houseruled that counterspell could not be counterspelled. I have seen many DMs use this rule and read of several more on blogs. In the second, I ran counterspell as written. And in both fights, I had several complaints from the players, and I myself was left feeling rather unsatisfied. In the first I discovered, as I have read on many DM advice websites, Sly Flourish and Powerscore RPG being the most prominent, players hate having their stuff negated. They didn't complain too much, but no one likes having their turn "wasted". The second went even worse. Both sides counterspelled each others counterspells, and no main spells were affected. To quote the wizard's player: "We're not even stopping each other's spells. It just feels like a waste of slots." I heartily agree. So, I came up with a couple of house rules to make counterspell more fun for my group, and who knows, maybe someone else might find them useful. They work if you rule that counterspell can be counterspelled, and if you rule it can't. All other rules for counterspell still apply. So here they are:
House Rule #1: When attempting to counterspell a spell, the counterspeller and the caster of the spell being countered must both make a special ability check, your bonus to which consists of your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus. If the counterspeller rolls higher, the spell is countered. If the caster of the spell rolls higher, the spell still takes effect and the counterspell is wasted.
House Rule #2: When attempting to counterspell a spell, the counterspeller must make a special ability check, your bonus to which consists of your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus against the caster of the spell being counterspelled's spell save DC. On a success, the spell is successfully countered. On a fail, the spell still takes effect and the counterspell is wasted.
House Rule #3: When attempting to counterspell a spell, the counterspeller must make a special ability check, your bonus to which consists of your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus with a DC of 10 + the spell they are attempting to counter's level. On a success, the spell is successfully countered. On a fail, the spell still takes effect and the counterspell is wasted.
I like the first one because it is narratively sound. Does the caster have enough magical power to push back the opponent's counterspell? It reminds me of when Harry Potter and Voldemort shoot spells at each other, the beams of arcane energy connect, and they both fight to push the other spell back and have theirs succeed. I like the second because it is slightly more likely that the counterspell will succeed, since a 5th level wizard probably has a spell save DC of 15 and an special ability bonus as mentioned above of +7, and it’s easier to beat a DC of 15 then a average roll of 17. I like the third because it too is narratively sound; the more powerful the spell, the harder it is to stop. It is also more likely that the counterspell will succeed than not, as the DC will probably not be that high in comparison to the counterspeller's special ability bonus (the average 5th level wizard has a bonus of +7 and is most likely to be facing 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spells). The third is, IMO, probably the best, since a successful counterspell is more likely then a failed one. I hope this is helpful!
PS If anyone has thought up some other house rules for counterspell, I'd love to hear them!
EDIT: Since these house rules do make counterspell a bit less powerful, you could consider making it a 2nd level spell, or increasing it's range to 80, 100, or 120 feet.
EDIT #2: Changed Arcana check to a special ability check, your bonus to which consists of your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus.
I don't know, to me it sounds like the party should have attempted to focus the mage since they were the biggest individual threat. Also, Counterspell has a range of 60 feet so depending on the layout of the encounter it's possible to stay out of its range and still attack the mage. If they hit him with Slow (range 120 feet) they temporarily eliminate the mage's ability to Counterspell and set him up to be killed with ranged attacks since they get the AC and dex save debuff.
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NOTE: I reposted this in the General Discussion and Dungeon Masters Only forums, since this isn't the most active forum, and more people are likely to see it this way. EDIT: Moderators deleted the reposts. Oh well, I probably shouldn't have done it anyway.
So, last night I ran 2 identical battles, which consisted of a mage and a load of orc minions on one side vs a party consisting of a wizard, a rogue, and a fighter. The wizard fought the mage and the rest of the party handled the orcs, cause there was no way to reach the mage without using an action to Dash, and the rogue and fighter had a hand crossbow and some javelins respectively. In the first fight, I houseruled that counterspell could not be counterspelled. I have seen many DMs use this rule and read of several more on blogs. In the second, I ran counterspell as written. And in both fights, I had several complaints from the players, and I myself was left feeling rather unsatisfied. In the first I discovered, as I have read on many DM advice websites, Sly Flourish and Powerscore RPG being the most prominent, players hate having their stuff negated. They didn't complain too much, but no one likes having their turn "wasted". The second went even worse. Both sides counterspelled each others counterspells, and no main spells were affected. To quote the wizard's player: "We're not even stopping each other's spells. It just feels like a waste of slots." I heartily agree. So, I came up with a couple of house rules to make counterspell more fun for my group, and who knows, maybe someone else might find them useful. They work if you rule that counterspell can be counterspelled, and if you rule it can't. All other rules for counterspell still apply. So here they are:
House Rule #1: When attempting to counterspell a spell, the counterspeller and the caster of the spell being countered must both make a special ability check, your bonus to which consists of your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus. If the counterspeller rolls higher, the spell is countered. If the caster of the spell rolls higher, the spell still takes effect and the counterspell is wasted.
House Rule #2: When attempting to counterspell a spell, the counterspeller must make a special ability check, your bonus to which consists of your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus against the caster of the spell being counterspelled's spell save DC. On a success, the spell is successfully countered. On a fail, the spell still takes effect and the counterspell is wasted.
House Rule #3: When attempting to counterspell a spell, the counterspeller must make a special ability check, your bonus to which consists of your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus with a DC of 10 + the spell they are attempting to counter's level. On a success, the spell is successfully countered. On a fail, the spell still takes effect and the counterspell is wasted.
I like the first one because it is narratively sound. Does the caster have enough magical power to push back the opponent's counterspell? It reminds me of when Harry Potter and Voldemort shoot spells at each other, the beams of arcane energy connect, and they both fight to push the other spell back and have theirs succeed. I like the second because it is slightly more likely that the counterspell will succeed, since a 5th level wizard probably has a spell save DC of 15 and an special ability bonus as mentioned above of +7, and it’s easier to beat a DC of 15 then a average roll of 17. I like the third because it too is narratively sound; the more powerful the spell, the harder it is to stop. It is also more likely that the counterspell will succeed than not, as the DC will probably not be that high in comparison to the counterspeller's special ability bonus (the average 5th level wizard has a bonus of +7 and is most likely to be facing 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spells). The third is, IMO, probably the best, since a successful counterspell is more likely then a failed one. I hope this is helpful!
PS If anyone has thought up some other house rules for counterspell, I'd love to hear them!
EDIT: Since these house rules do make counterspell a bit less powerful, you could consider making it a 2nd level spell, or increasing it's range to 80, 100, or 120 feet.
EDIT #2: Changed Arcana check to a special ability check, your bonus to which consists of your spellcasting ability modifier + your proficiency bonus.
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I don't know, to me it sounds like the party should have attempted to focus the mage since they were the biggest individual threat. Also, Counterspell has a range of 60 feet so depending on the layout of the encounter it's possible to stay out of its range and still attack the mage. If they hit him with Slow (range 120 feet) they temporarily eliminate the mage's ability to Counterspell and set him up to be killed with ranged attacks since they get the AC and dex save debuff.