I have tried to import the spell from 3.5 "Sword and Hammer". I have created a homebrew version and am wondering if the players and DMs here think the spell is balanced for it's level range, as well as keeping in line with the flavor of the spell from both the wiki and the 3.5 version from Players Guide to Faerun.
I think it is slightly underpowered for a Domain spell, The public ones you can look at for this are death ward, or guardian of faith, which are both far more useful than the effect you are using. I would recommended either lowering the level or increasing the damage. I may be just like using two spiritual weapon, but spell scale exponentially not linearly.
I think this is fine at 4th level, although it feels a lot more like a spiritual weapon upcast than a new spell to me. It feels more appropriate to change that spell to add an additional weapon for every 2 levels you upcast.
I disagree about GoF being objectively better though. This spell - like SW which is exceptional in its niche - is about economic damage dealing in combat. This is not just a linear upgrade either - you can focus on one creature or distribute your damage to two targets. Ability to flank is quite strong as well if your table is using that rule. My players would be all over this spell.
My concern on this spell is it is not concentration, is a Bonus Action and can be combined with Spirit Guardians, Normal Action Attack, Reaction abilities. When combined it gets a bit OP for a support role pushing out DPR (IMO).
First off, I am not trying to make Sword and Hammer so much better then Spirtual Weapon that spiritual weapon is made obsolete by this spell after level 7. Spiritual weapon deals 2d8+3 with a 4th level slot, Sword and Hammer deals 1d8+3 twice with the same slot, only slightly more, but has the ability to flank as long as the two weapons flank the target being attacked.
Scatterbraind has a good idea of what the spell is hoping to accomplish. It has a high up front cost of an action and bonus action to both summon the weapons and attack, but after that round, it only costs your BA to make the attacks. After spell level 6, this spell becomes better overall, getting an extra d8 in damage as well as the increased crit range, which would make it just flat out better then SW if casting it using a 6th level slot or better.
Please compare this to the 3.5 versions of the spell. Sword and hammer functioned exactly like spiritual weapon in 3.5, but had a +1 to hit, and summoned 2 weapons. That was the buff it got over SW. It wasn't until the 6th level spell when you got Greater Sword and Hammer where the spell officially became just better then upcasting SW.
Adding extra weapons would be cool, I agree. but then it almost is just an updated SW. Not only that, but it runs outside the purview of an import of the 3.5 spell. Traditionally the spell only summons 2 weapons, the weapons grew stronger when upcast, got a bonus to hit, could flank, and had an increased crit range. The spell is not meant to catch the cleric up in damage to other classes, just provide an interesting option outside Spiritual Weapon. IT is a bit more reliable damage, unlike SW being completely all or nothing. Also, it has the ability to flank, as well as an increased crit range at spell level 6+, which in my opinion makes the spell better, but not so much better the SW that Sword and Hammer feels broken.
An option if you really wished the spell to gain even more then it already has is to allow a magical +1 bonus to hit when casting at 4th level, which will increase to +2 at 6th level, and finally +3 at 8th level. But, this will push the ability to hit with Sword and Hammer pretty far ahead of spiritual weapon, and I was trying to avoid that with this spell.
I have tried to import the spell from 3.5 "Sword and Hammer". I have created a homebrew version and am wondering if the players and DMs here think the spell is balanced for it's level range, as well as keeping in line with the flavor of the spell from both the wiki and the 3.5 version from Players Guide to Faerun.
The spell is here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1440875-sword-and-hammer
I appreciate any feedback on the matter!
I think it is slightly underpowered for a Domain spell, The public ones you can look at for this are death ward, or guardian of faith, which are both far more useful than the effect you are using. I would recommended either lowering the level or increasing the damage. I may be just like using two spiritual weapon, but spell scale exponentially not linearly.
I agree on it being unbalanced, I think it should be a lower level, thought
It pronounced Den Sake. It is not Japanese.
Website character sheet not working fix (Hopefully)
Semi-Expert at homebrew, just ask for my help.
I think this is fine at 4th level, although it feels a lot more like a spiritual weapon upcast than a new spell to me. It feels more appropriate to change that spell to add an additional weapon for every 2 levels you upcast.
I disagree about GoF being objectively better though. This spell - like SW which is exceptional in its niche - is about economic damage dealing in combat. This is not just a linear upgrade either - you can focus on one creature or distribute your damage to two targets. Ability to flank is quite strong as well if your table is using that rule. My players would be all over this spell.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
My concern on this spell is it is not concentration, is a Bonus Action and can be combined with Spirit Guardians, Normal Action Attack, Reaction abilities. When combined it gets a bit OP for a support role pushing out DPR (IMO).
I appreciate the responses.
First off, I am not trying to make Sword and Hammer so much better then Spirtual Weapon that spiritual weapon is made obsolete by this spell after level 7. Spiritual weapon deals 2d8+3 with a 4th level slot, Sword and Hammer deals 1d8+3 twice with the same slot, only slightly more, but has the ability to flank as long as the two weapons flank the target being attacked.
Scatterbraind has a good idea of what the spell is hoping to accomplish. It has a high up front cost of an action and bonus action to both summon the weapons and attack, but after that round, it only costs your BA to make the attacks. After spell level 6, this spell becomes better overall, getting an extra d8 in damage as well as the increased crit range, which would make it just flat out better then SW if casting it using a 6th level slot or better.
Please compare this to the 3.5 versions of the spell. Sword and hammer functioned exactly like spiritual weapon in 3.5, but had a +1 to hit, and summoned 2 weapons. That was the buff it got over SW. It wasn't until the 6th level spell when you got Greater Sword and Hammer where the spell officially became just better then upcasting SW.
Adding extra weapons would be cool, I agree. but then it almost is just an updated SW. Not only that, but it runs outside the purview of an import of the 3.5 spell. Traditionally the spell only summons 2 weapons, the weapons grew stronger when upcast, got a bonus to hit, could flank, and had an increased crit range. The spell is not meant to catch the cleric up in damage to other classes, just provide an interesting option outside Spiritual Weapon. IT is a bit more reliable damage, unlike SW being completely all or nothing. Also, it has the ability to flank, as well as an increased crit range at spell level 6+, which in my opinion makes the spell better, but not so much better the SW that Sword and Hammer feels broken.
An option if you really wished the spell to gain even more then it already has is to allow a magical +1 bonus to hit when casting at 4th level, which will increase to +2 at 6th level, and finally +3 at 8th level. But, this will push the ability to hit with Sword and Hammer pretty far ahead of spiritual weapon, and I was trying to avoid that with this spell.
I like it