Quote from Raccoon_Master >>

 In dnd, fiends such as Devils and Demons are generally defined as former mortals who had their souls twisted after death. A lawful good paladin who makes a deal with a devil to save innocent lives is still good, but they would become a devil in the afterlife. The question is, can this twisting be undone? Is it something that happens automatically, or are fiend's behaviors products of their environments, in which they are so surrounded by depravity that they fall into it?

 
That's not necessarily true, depending on the setting. In 3e and 4e, for instance, devils were a race called baatorians, and were around since the beginning, give or take an eon or so. Demons are also typically created by the abyss itself. In 5e, the petitioners of the abyss (manes) and the nine hells (lemure) are considered fiends, but they are regarded poorly.

Quote from Gnomarchy >>

Quote from The_Summoning_Dark >>

 I've always thought of fiends in Dnd as living embodiments of evil. If that is the case, then they can't really be good. Maybe there could be a way for them to be redeemed, but then I would say they would become celestials. I come from a Christian standpoint and I believe demons do exist and that they are always evil. Fiends in Dnd aren't actually demons, but they are based on them. (Also there isn't a blood war in my games. There isn't much of a difference between demons and devils.)

 
I guess that's more specific to the belief system you have and the lore you'd set for your worlds. I could easily imagine a fiend in the FR or Greyhawk deciding to abandon the blood war, start a farm somewhere, and actively not want to become a celestial (read: subservient). There's also Crowley from Good Omens, who isn't really evil at all.

I'm motivated a bit by the language of the monster manual that reads (emphasis mine):

Fiends are creatures of wickedness that are native to the Lower Planes. A few are the servants of deities, but many more labor under the leadership of archdevils and demon princes. Evil priests and mages sometimes summon fiends to the material world to do their bidding. If an evil celestial is a rarity, a good fiend is almost inconceivable. Fiends include demons, devils, hell hounds, rakshasas, and yugoloths.

 True, not everyone shares my beliefs and so they might see it differently. I’ll admit that it’s possible through official dnd lore, but it still seems silly to me. I don’t see why they can’t just be evil because they’re spiritual beings, not human(iods). 

I will point out that I’m not a fan of Good Omens. I love both Pratchett’s and Gaiman’s work, they are two of my favorite writers, but I’m majorly disappointed that the project they work together on treats Christianity as mythology. Those awesome dudes love telling stories using folklore and mythology, which I’m all about, but Christianity isn’t mythology and even if you don’t believe it you shouldn’t call it that. I wouldn’t call Islamic or Hindu beliefs mythology, even though I believe them to be false. Crowley and Aziraphale aren’t good representations of a demon or angel.

But if you want to have a fiend be a farmer, go ahead. It doesn’t seem cool to me, but it isn’t wrong to do. Please understand that I’m just stating and explaining my opinion. Dnd fiends aren’t meant to be Biblically accurate demons, they’re game monsters inspired by stories from folklore which are inspired by the Bible. Don’t let me rain on your friendly fiend parade, I just won’t be marching in it.

A fiend as the good guy, and a fey as the bad guy.

For demons and devils, I opted to shift things away from the false binary of good or evil, and make it more about the nature of the beings themselves.

Devils are a physical thing, material and present, a manifestation of the nature of the Infernal dimensions (Hell, Abyss, Ego, Bedlam, and Dread the known ones). Devils are hierarchical, representing strength as power, power as place in society.

They feed on souls, and the more wicked or corrupt a soul is, the sweeter it is. Wickedness and corruption stems from actions taken, as well, so they cajole, coerce, and confuse people into taking actions that corrupt them. In combat, they seek to weaken their foes, bleeding them, then close in for the kill through a soul draining effect — that doesn’t actually kill one, it merely places them into a coma (but makes them very easy to possess).

Demons are aphysical, immaterial; spiritual beings of amorphous nature. They feed on emotions like fear, terror, horror, disbelief, suspicion, jealousy, resentment. They often employ undead in their efforts because of the fear, but they themselves are able to do it. They come across as very lovecraftian in descriptions. 

for those newer to the thread, yeah, I don’t follow published stuff much, lol.

i recently created a whole new group of large critters for Wyrlde. They are called Aligeca, and are contemporary with my Trolls, being more or less manifestations of a particular area. No one knows where they come from, but it only takes about a year after killing one for a new one to show up. They are giant sized creatures, and at most one is found in a given square mile.

they are, literally, monsters. ‘Dread or Evil, Fearsome creature”.

Agreed. I only posted Hellboy because he is an edge case where nurture overtook nature. I believe any fiend grown in the hells will be evil by the very nature of the environment. In hell mercy is only for the strong.

I'm a huge fan of the Hellboy comics. He isn't fully fiend though. A large part of his story is him choosing whether to let his human or demonic nature be who he is. Man, Mike Mignola is such a great artist. I could go on and on praising his work but I'll spare y'all. 

Trying to make rules for horror encounters in which the big bad is too powerful to take on directly. Anybody ever do these?

Quote from The_Summoning_Dark >>

Question of the Day: Ever done any Larping?

I recently got together with a bunch of friends and had a bunch of really fun battles. A friend of a friend has been collecting fiberglass weapons for years and has quite the impressive arsenal. I don't know if it technically counts as larping since there wasn't a story or real roleplaying, but it was incredibly fun. 

 
Yes, at a convention once. It was WoD though instead of D&D, I played a Bruja, and we straight up swiped Hirohito’s chess board, and then got jacked by some Garou. It was a blast. I was only 17, but got served beer at the bar, and the went and smoked a joint with one of my “kindred,” and then at the end me and my cousins and our moms all went home and none of them had any idea I was buzzed except my baby cousin, and she knew how to keep a secret. (Still does.)

Quote from The_Summoning_Dark>>

Christianity isn’t mythology and even if you don’t believe it you shouldn’t call it that. I wouldn’t call Islamic or Hindu beliefs mythology, even though I believe them to be false.

I'm curious why you think this. Obviously Christianity itself isn't mythology, since as a religion it is a collection of a whole bunch of different things (I've usually heard 13), but why shouldn't the associated body of stories that serve to explain nature and morals be called myths? Is the difference between a myth and a religious story simply how popular the associated religion is in modern day?

On my previous comment, I'm a big fan of the relentless slasher, relentless juggernaut, and relentless impaler monsters from VRGtR and Vecna. I wonder what other horror tropes could be made into a "relentless" monster.

Quote from Quar1on >>

I'm curious why you think this. Obviously Christianity itself isn't mythology, since as a religion it is a collection of a whole bunch of different things (I've usually heard 13), but why shouldn't the associated body of stories that serve to explain nature and morals be called myths? Is the difference between a myth and a religious story simply how popular the associated religion is in modern day?

 
If you value your account, you may want to desist from continuing this conversation.

Had an idea for an adventure. The idea is that a town uses so much magical energy that its power authority has secretly made a deal with some devils to provide cheap soul energy. Adventures would center around the ecological impacts and, you know, the occasional diabolic incursion. What do you think?

Sounds like my mother-in-law. She uses enough resources to power a village.

QotD: Does it seem to anyone else like WotC is creating more dramatic adventures and more epic options for characters while the D&D community is stepping back?

What I mean is that I’ve seen a lot lately about level 0 characters, smaller scale adventure, and more of a focus on personal stories and roleplaying more deeply from the community even as we get adventures like Vecna and the Staircase of Whatever tf you want it to be from WotC.

Personally, I love the direction the community seems to be going, but maybe it’s just me?

Quote from Amnon_Balderk >>

QotD: Does it seem to anyone else like WotC is creating more dramatic adventures and more epic options for characters while the D&D community is stepping back?

What I mean is that I’ve seen a lot lately about level 0 characters, smaller scale adventure, and more of a focus on personal stories and roleplaying more deeply from the community even as we get adventures like Vecna and the Staircase of Whatever tf you want it to be from WotC.

Personally, I love the direction the community seems to be going, but maybe it’s just me?

 I like both. Epic adventures and a focus on personal stories are not mutually exclusive. Characters who get involved in epic adventures can have personal drama and growth too.

I like my characters to start out low level (though maybe not level 0, more like level 1 or 3) and work their way up to epic level, both as a player and a DM. Also, Quests from the Infinite Staircase is for levels 1-13, so I wouldn’t exactly call it epic.

I waffle a bit. Usually I like to start at low levels but often campaigns fall apart before they party really starts to groove. So yes I often want to run or play in campaign that are lvl 8+.

I have never played in a lvl 18+ that actually felt good. It was more everybody shouting at each other trying to get their special thing to happen.

Question: What are your thoughts on what has been released of EPIC: The Musical, if you know of it?

Its a musical based on the Odyssey.

I know nothing about it but the concept sounds really cool. I like musicals and I like The Odyssey.

Quote from WoodsGirl0402 >>

I know nothing about it but the concept sounds really cool. I like musicals and I like The Odyssey.

Same. I apparently have been listening to one of their songs without knowing about the musical for well over a year now.

Came across an animatic for one of the songs.