So my party has just cleared a room full of goblins with loud spells and attacks, even setting off a collapsing ceiling trap in another room. This commotion would reasonably alert most all enemies in the building and they plan to use a NPC hostage to capture the party after ordering them to drop their weapons. There is the Bugbear leader holding the NPC at knife point with two Hobgoblin guards protecting him while a Doppelganger has flanked the party and hidden in the shadows behind them waiting for a cue to attack. My question is "If the party were to initiate combat (the Doppelgangers cue), would the Doppelganger gain advantage and extra damage on its attack from its surprise abilities from attacking a PC from behind since the Bugbear is playing distraction, or would the presence of the bugbear and his guards alert the party to danger forfeiting those abilities?" I ask this because the Doppelganger abilities state that the target of these attacks need to be surprised to use them. since the Doppelganger is only an unseen attacker would he be able to use those surprise abilities, or would the bugbear count as a distraction and allow the doppelganger to "surprise" the party when it attacks?
This could go a lot of ways, because you're combining two of the most contentious mechanics here - stealth and surprise. I can tell you how I'd play it for what that's worth.
Does the party notice the doppleganger?
I'd base this solely on passive perception vs the doppleganger's stealth roll, granting advantage to the stealth roll due to the distraction. However, a good Insight check on the bugbear might indicate his eyes shifting to something behind the party. Passively noticing a hiding creature is not well defined in the rules and the DM has a lot of sway here.
Does the doppleganger surprise the party?
If it is not detected in the check above, yes. What this means RAW as I understand it is that when the dopple attacks, everyone rolls initiative and you do a surprise round. The only party members that are actually surprised are the ones that go after the dopplegranger in initiative, although none of them actually get to act (but they can use reactions on or after their turn) in the surprise round unless they have special feats or features.
I don't like those rules though because they can create weird scenarios like everyone going before the person initiating combat, leaving no one surprised, or the initiator basically getting two turns in a row. As far as I'm concerned, the stealth roll was the check to see whether the ambush would be successful or not - you shouldn't have to make the check again in the form of an initiative roll.
I'd have everyone roll initiative when he attacks, but the order is readjusted to be (doppleganger and anyone who can't be surprised, in initiative order) => (everyone else in initiative order). He goes while everyone is surprised, then everyone else gets a turn before he gets to go again.
However most people here seem to be fine with the surprise rules as written. As with any houserule, I'd recommend you try the official, designed-by-a-professional rules first and then only implement an alternate rule if you feel that the RAW is not giving you what you want.
This could go a lot of ways, because you're combining two of the most contentious mechanics here - stealth and surprise. I can tell you how I'd play it for what that's worth.
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I'd have everyone roll initiative when he attacks, but the order is readjusted to be (doppleganger and anyone who can't be surprised, in initiative order) => (everyone else in initiative order). He goes while everyone is surprised, then everyone else gets a turn before he gets to go again.
However most people here seem to be fine with the surprise rules as written. As with any houserule, I'd recommend you try the official, designed-by-a-professional rules first and then only implement an alternate rule if you feel that the RAW is not giving you what you want.
I really like your method here. Would you also automatically make the bugbears go after the doppelganger, since they are waiting for that attack to occur?
The Doppelganger is working with the Bugbear. My plan is to have the Bugbear order the party to drop their weapons and if they comply then the doppelganger would come out and collect the weapons while the Hobgoblins restrained the party. If the party refused to drop their weapons then the Doppelganger would initiate combat from behind the party while the hobgoblins fight from the front. The Bugbear would act as a leader and order the monsters around while using the hostage NPC as a Dwarvan shield. If they keep resisting the monsters and either a Hobgoblin or the Doppelganger are killed then the Bugbear would kill the dwarf and join the fight. My plan isn't to kill the party but to put them into a threatening satiation.
The RAW answer: No one is surprised because not every enemy is hidden. I dont like that this is how it works, but it is.
That said, I don't think the party should count as surprised anyway, because they are obviously aware that there are enemies and ready to fight (especially if the trigger is them initiating the attack...).
How I would run it to get the most of the doppelganger without ignoring rules to screw the players, is just change its abilities from "surprised" to "hasn't taken a turn this combat." It keeps the spirit of the abilities and doesn't take ignore the players' intentions (making them skip their first turn screws up a ton of different class features).
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So my party has just cleared a room full of goblins with loud spells and attacks, even setting off a collapsing ceiling trap in another room. This commotion would reasonably alert most all enemies in the building and they plan to use a NPC hostage to capture the party after ordering them to drop their weapons. There is the Bugbear leader holding the NPC at knife point with two Hobgoblin guards protecting him while a Doppelganger has flanked the party and hidden in the shadows behind them waiting for a cue to attack. My question is "If the party were to initiate combat (the Doppelgangers cue), would the Doppelganger gain advantage and extra damage on its attack from its surprise abilities from attacking a PC from behind since the Bugbear is playing distraction, or would the presence of the bugbear and his guards alert the party to danger forfeiting those abilities?" I ask this because the Doppelganger abilities state that the target of these attacks need to be surprised to use them. since the Doppelganger is only an unseen attacker would he be able to use those surprise abilities, or would the bugbear count as a distraction and allow the doppelganger to "surprise" the party when it attacks?
This could go a lot of ways, because you're combining two of the most contentious mechanics here - stealth and surprise. I can tell you how I'd play it for what that's worth.
I'd base this solely on passive perception vs the doppleganger's stealth roll, granting advantage to the stealth roll due to the distraction. However, a good Insight check on the bugbear might indicate his eyes shifting to something behind the party. Passively noticing a hiding creature is not well defined in the rules and the DM has a lot of sway here.
If it is not detected in the check above, yes. What this means RAW as I understand it is that when the dopple attacks, everyone rolls initiative and you do a surprise round. The only party members that are actually surprised are the ones that go after the dopplegranger in initiative, although none of them actually get to act (but they can use reactions on or after their turn) in the surprise round unless they have special feats or features.
I don't like those rules though because they can create weird scenarios like everyone going before the person initiating combat, leaving no one surprised, or the initiator basically getting two turns in a row. As far as I'm concerned, the stealth roll was the check to see whether the ambush would be successful or not - you shouldn't have to make the check again in the form of an initiative roll.
I'd have everyone roll initiative when he attacks, but the order is readjusted to be (doppleganger and anyone who can't be surprised, in initiative order) => (everyone else in initiative order). He goes while everyone is surprised, then everyone else gets a turn before he gets to go again.
However most people here seem to be fine with the surprise rules as written. As with any houserule, I'd recommend you try the official, designed-by-a-professional rules first and then only implement an alternate rule if you feel that the RAW is not giving you what you want.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I really like your method here. Would you also automatically make the bugbears go after the doppelganger, since they are waiting for that attack to occur?
The Doppelganger is working with the Bugbear. My plan is to have the Bugbear order the party to drop their weapons and if they comply then the doppelganger would come out and collect the weapons while the Hobgoblins restrained the party. If the party refused to drop their weapons then the Doppelganger would initiate combat from behind the party while the hobgoblins fight from the front. The Bugbear would act as a leader and order the monsters around while using the hostage NPC as a Dwarvan shield. If they keep resisting the monsters and either a Hobgoblin or the Doppelganger are killed then the Bugbear would kill the dwarf and join the fight. My plan isn't to kill the party but to put them into a threatening satiation.
The RAW answer: No one is surprised because not every enemy is hidden. I dont like that this is how it works, but it is.
That said, I don't think the party should count as surprised anyway, because they are obviously aware that there are enemies and ready to fight (especially if the trigger is them initiating the attack...).
How I would run it to get the most of the doppelganger without ignoring rules to screw the players, is just change its abilities from "surprised" to "hasn't taken a turn this combat." It keeps the spirit of the abilities and doesn't take ignore the players' intentions (making them skip their first turn screws up a ton of different class features).