Someone mentioned in another thread that they didn't think leveling in a new class would take any time.
The situation the player was in placed the party in an area far from civilization and with no time for any kind of crafting.
I thought it odd that their DM would allow multiclassing in the middle of dungeon. Leveling I can see to an extent, but if new abilities are gained, how does that happen without a trainer and without time to learn the new skills?
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
How is multiclassing into new features in the middle of a dungeon any different from leveling into new features of your current class in the middle of a dungeon?
It's suspension of disbelief and depends on the campaign and DM.
In my own campaigns, if a Fighter gained enough xp to level up and the player declared that they were going to multiclass into Warlock right there and then, I would say no. There are a LOT of role-playing aspects to doing so - anyone that plays in one of my games knows this though, so if they are interested in multiclassing, they approach it [b]in character[/b] finding a tutor or a reason for them to develop in this way (warlock would need a patron).
Here's the thing though - there isn't a right or wrong way to play this game (noted exception for adhering to AL ruleset for AL games)
- if one group want to run and play like a video game, where you level up on the spot, halfway through a dungeon, then that's ok.
- if another group want to specify that, regardless of experience points, levelling up also requires the character to seek a tutor before advancing and train with them, then that's also ok.
It's about gameworld consistency and having fun. :)
I’m a player and I agree. I’m playing a warlock right now and I wrote into my character’s back story how his patron visits him to teach him what he needs to know to level up.
I'm of a mind where I mix both InquisitiveCoder's and Stormknight's approaches. I don't see a reason why a person can't multiclass in the middle of nowhere, however, there are certain classes that will require something to happen either just before or just after the change to make it feel natural.
Rogue multi-classing into fighter/ranger, sure, not much I'd concern myself with there since they're easy enough branches to see. Barbarian, ok, where'd the rage stem from?
Sorcerer multi into Warlock, you better bet that there's going to be something happening before or after the class change, can you say Patron? Wanna drop into some wizard classes, no sweat, they're sister classes anyhow.
There's a little give and take, but I like to make sure that the players are remembering that this is as much RP as it is Min/Maxing.
In 5e there is no need for downtime or training to multiclass. Options can be house ruled in to add more role-play depth, but are not necessary. At least as far as I know
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I'm of a mind where I mix both InquisitiveCoder's and Stormknight's approaches. I don't see a reason why a person can't multiclass in the middle of nowhere, however, there are certain classes that will require something to happen either just before or just after the change to make it feel natural.
...
There's a little give and take, but I like to make sure that the players are remembering that this is as much RP as it is Min/Maxing.
I agree that ideally you'd tie in some story elements to a class transition if the character really is branching out story-wise. D&D is a storytelling game, after all.
On the other hand someone might be dipping into Warlock purely because they wanted to play a character that can summon any weapon they want out of thin air and not because they want to be someone that makes pacts with otherworldly beings. That's ok too.
Everyone's reasons for multiclassing are different and different groups care about immersion VS player agency to varying degrees. There's no one right answer to "what's the correct time and place to level up/multiclass?" That's why the rules are silent and leave it up to each table to decide what that process looks like.
You can see that philosophy at work in XGtE's racial feats; they don't require that something happen to enable a change or transformation in your character, but they invite you and your DM to explore what taking that feat means in your game.
In 5e there is no need for downtime or training to multiclass. Options can be house ruled in to add more role-play depth, but are not necessary. At least as far as I know
You're right. There are no hard and fast rules on how multi-classing works beyond having the appropriate stats. Just as there is no hard and fast rule that says you must wait for down time to level.
However there are many, many DMs who work off of an unspoken agreement that leveling happens during some sort of down time event. The beauty is, no one said that it was a rule, we've been simply expressing our opinions on how we'd approach it.
If you feel as though it will completely disrupt the game, then have the player work it into their personal story and/or them hint and roleplay various events leading up to the class change. Here are some example ideas off the top of my head:
Artificer - If the player plans with the DM properly, the DM can have them find a magical pouch or rifle to sync up with the Artificer Specialist they want. They may have some kind of interest in tinkering and arcana. They really would enjoy examining anything tech-ish or magical more closely.
Barbarian - Character can prepare by getting fed-up and having a short temper in the middle of combat when things aren't going the way of the group. She might run into battle haphazardly, throwing down her shield, or tearing off some of her more encumbering armor pieces while charging in.
Bard - Have an outgoing and gregarious personality, or tells alot of jokes, or likes playing music during downtime, or tells epic tales from their travels, or likes to whisper encouragement in player's ears, etc. So many possibilities here.
Bloodhunter - Expresses a strong aversion to Fey, Fiends, and Undead. Occasionally can be found performing small rituals before using Survival to track them. Uses arcana, religion, nature, or history to reference knowledge of those creatures and their treachery.
Cleric - Player should already have a holy symbol, occasionally referencing philosophy, possibly finds scriptures or a holy object related to the Domain they plan to worship.
Druid - Player should act VERY connected to nature and attuned to the natural world. Possibly speaks to birds, bugs, and trees. Has skills in Nature, Animal Handling, or even uses other skills in a "nature-y" way like using Sleight of Hand to get honey from a beehive, or uses History to reference how the forests or swamps were affected by civilization.
Fighter - Focus on the fighting style ahead of time. Use Longswords with two hands, before learning great weapon fighting, or does two weapon fighting whenever possible, prefers ranged attacks with shortbows before having access to the Longbow, etc.
Monk - Player would likely fight with monk weapons and occasionally unarmed. They practice meditating and martial techniques in downtime. Study different animals fighting in the wild, and so forth.
Mystic / Psionic - Player might be overly philosophical or talk about ways of overcoming obstacles with the mind. Is occasionally caught focusing intensely on a single point to start a fire, lift a stone, or control a mind. Uses Persuasion skill like Obi Wan Kenobi like, "these aren't the Halflings you're looking for". The DM may even throw them a bone by letting that little fire spark or having that stone float to their hand.
Paladin - Similar to the Cleric, maybe with more of an emphasis on the wiping out or smiting of specific forms of evil.
Ranger - Similar to the Druid leaning in that "nature-y" direction. Possibly spending as time with animals as possible, always tracking, gathering food and materials from nature.
Rogue - Player might have a mischievous nature, or is a bit of a klepto, might have an interest in trap mechanics, is kind of sneaky, or deceptive.
Sorcerer - Often refers to something burning within themselves, acknowledges an unknown internal conflict, sparks may occasionally emanate from their hands during moments of stress, eyes may turn red like fire, or any other effect based on the Sorcerer type. Or work out a life-changing near-death event with the DM just before leveling into sorcerer.
Warlock - Player can talk about dreams they're having where another being is calling them into service. The cause may be unknown or hidden to them. Maybe they found a seemingly innocent object, creature, or weapon that is connecting them to their patron. After killing a really tough enemy, who was in the service of an unknown being, it suddenly shifts its attention toward the potential new servant and offers them power (think about the Sith lords, but doesn't have to be a dark force).
Wizard - The player may find a spell focus or a spellbook in a pile of treasure that peeks their interest. They might already have a strong interest in the Arcane Arts, or have been trying to decipher a scroll given to them by a family member, that suddenly clicks.
There's also the possibility of "mental multi-classing" which can be just as fun. I had a Bard that was going to multi-class into a Ranger, but then realized that I can take the skills, backgrounds, and spells related to nature and Ranger-like pursuits that I wanted. So I went with a Valor Bard, heavily focused on Nature, Stealth, Survival, and Herbalism. He's mega fun and I actually play him the same way I would a Ranger, but with a mix of incredible nature-spell options, nasty ranged attacks, and I use instruments forged through the natural world for my music. My DM even let me take the Druidcraft cantrip as one of my options to back up my theme.
I like Wheelercub's approach. I'd want it to be worked into the story somehow.
As to doing it in the middle of a dungeon, that would depend. Like, a fighter taking a level of barbarian, no problem. The fighter sees one of his buddies go down in combat, and that's the first time he rages. Fighter taking a level of wizard would be more problematic.
While 5E doesn't require it, I like having multiclassing worked in to the story and will do this for my own character even if the DM doesn't require it. This can be easy to do for a Warlock or Sorcerer. Character finds something that makes a pact with / awakens a sleeping power within them. It is harder to do for other classes, but perhaps the character can start training before they enter the dungeon or start practicing on their own a level before they multiclass.
As a DM, I would be more inclined to requiring the player role-play any class changes before allowing them to happen mid-dungeon (as mentioned in my previous post above). I might even go so far as to let them level for the HP, base abilities, and choose spells. But restrict the spells from actually activating unless they make an Arcana check with a DC of 15 + spell level. Each success would bring that check down by 1 point until no check is needed. Then once they've fully embraced the new spellcasting class, no future checks are needed when they level up. Oh and to be clear, Arcana checks would be for Wizards, Sorcerers, Eldritch Knights, Artificers, and Arcane Tricksters. Clerics and Paladins would make Religion checks to show reverence. Druids and Rangers would make Nature checks to tap into the natural world. Warlocks and Bloodhunters would make Persuasion checks to persuade their patron for the power (or just use Arcana if you're not into that). Bards would make Performance checks. Psionics would also use Arcana, to tap into the deeper arcane reaches of the mind, but a DM might also allow Investigation as it encompasses all forms of puzzle solving, research, deductive reasoning, and mental flexibility. Etc...
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Someone mentioned in another thread that they didn't think leveling in a new class would take any time.
The situation the player was in placed the party in an area far from civilization and with no time for any kind of crafting.
I thought it odd that their DM would allow multiclassing in the middle of dungeon. Leveling I can see to an extent, but if new abilities are gained, how does that happen without a trainer and without time to learn the new skills?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
How is multiclassing into new features in the middle of a dungeon any different from leveling into new features of your current class in the middle of a dungeon?
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D&D Beyond FoundersIt's suspension of disbelief and depends on the campaign and DM.
In my own campaigns, if a Fighter gained enough xp to level up and the player declared that they were going to multiclass into Warlock right there and then, I would say no. There are a LOT of role-playing aspects to doing so - anyone that plays in one of my games knows this though, so if they are interested in multiclassing, they approach it [b]in character[/b] finding a tutor or a reason for them to develop in this way (warlock would need a patron).
Here's the thing though - there isn't a right or wrong way to play this game (noted exception for adhering to AL ruleset for AL games)
- if one group want to run and play like a video game, where you level up on the spot, halfway through a dungeon, then that's ok.
- if another group want to specify that, regardless of experience points, levelling up also requires the character to seek a tutor before advancing and train with them, then that's also ok.
It's about gameworld consistency and having fun. :)
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I’m a player and I agree. I’m playing a warlock right now and I wrote into my character’s back story how his patron visits him to teach him what he needs to know to level up.
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I'm of a mind where I mix both InquisitiveCoder's and Stormknight's approaches. I don't see a reason why a person can't multiclass in the middle of nowhere, however, there are certain classes that will require something to happen either just before or just after the change to make it feel natural.
Rogue multi-classing into fighter/ranger, sure, not much I'd concern myself with there since they're easy enough branches to see. Barbarian, ok, where'd the rage stem from?
Sorcerer multi into Warlock, you better bet that there's going to be something happening before or after the class change, can you say Patron? Wanna drop into some wizard classes, no sweat, they're sister classes anyhow.
There's a little give and take, but I like to make sure that the players are remembering that this is as much RP as it is Min/Maxing.
In 5e there is no need for downtime or training to multiclass. Options can be house ruled in to add more role-play depth, but are not necessary. At least as far as I know
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
The Forum Infestation (TM)
If you feel as though it will completely disrupt the game, then have the player work it into their personal story and/or them hint and roleplay various events leading up to the class change. Here are some example ideas off the top of my head:
There's also the possibility of "mental multi-classing" which can be just as fun. I had a Bard that was going to multi-class into a Ranger, but then realized that I can take the skills, backgrounds, and spells related to nature and Ranger-like pursuits that I wanted. So I went with a Valor Bard, heavily focused on Nature, Stealth, Survival, and Herbalism. He's mega fun and I actually play him the same way I would a Ranger, but with a mix of incredible nature-spell options, nasty ranged attacks, and I use instruments forged through the natural world for my music. My DM even let me take the Druidcraft cantrip as one of my options to back up my theme.
I like Wheelercub's approach. I'd want it to be worked into the story somehow.
As to doing it in the middle of a dungeon, that would depend. Like, a fighter taking a level of barbarian, no problem. The fighter sees one of his buddies go down in combat, and that's the first time he rages. Fighter taking a level of wizard would be more problematic.
While 5E doesn't require it, I like having multiclassing worked in to the story and will do this for my own character even if the DM doesn't require it. This can be easy to do for a Warlock or Sorcerer. Character finds something that makes a pact with / awakens a sleeping power within them. It is harder to do for other classes, but perhaps the character can start training before they enter the dungeon or start practicing on their own a level before they multiclass.
As a DM, I would be more inclined to requiring the player role-play any class changes before allowing them to happen mid-dungeon (as mentioned in my previous post above). I might even go so far as to let them level for the HP, base abilities, and choose spells. But restrict the spells from actually activating unless they make an Arcana check with a DC of 15 + spell level. Each success would bring that check down by 1 point until no check is needed. Then once they've fully embraced the new spellcasting class, no future checks are needed when they level up. Oh and to be clear, Arcana checks would be for Wizards, Sorcerers, Eldritch Knights, Artificers, and Arcane Tricksters. Clerics and Paladins would make Religion checks to show reverence. Druids and Rangers would make Nature checks to tap into the natural world. Warlocks and Bloodhunters would make Persuasion checks to persuade their patron for the power (or just use Arcana if you're not into that). Bards would make Performance checks. Psionics would also use Arcana, to tap into the deeper arcane reaches of the mind, but a DM might also allow Investigation as it encompasses all forms of puzzle solving, research, deductive reasoning, and mental flexibility. Etc...