I’d say “no”; even with Counterspell you can’t react until they’ve cast the spell, so by the time you’ve silenced them, they’ve completed the V component of the current spell.
It might work if you phrase it "When a creature begins casting a spell", so the trigger occurs after they started casting, but before they've finished. Up to DM discretion.
Also keep in mind that readying an action to cast a spell requires concentration.
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It might work if you phrase it "When a creature begins casting a spell", so the trigger occurs after they started casting, but before they've finished. Up to DM discretion.
Also keep in mind that readying an action to cast a spell requires concentration.
Seems to run pretty counter to RAI, particularly given that Silence is a level below Counterspell and would automatically stop any spell with a V component with no rolls like that.
I think the problem is... you already have to spend the spell slot and concentrate on the spell just to hold it... you might as well just cast the spell at that point and leave your reaction free.
I think the intent of the player is pretty clear and are investing considerable resources and risk just to cast the spell. I would definitely let them have it if they want it, but I would also make sure the player understood that Silence basically sucks. A caster is going to know what Silence is in most cases and since it is their turn, they can just step out of range most of the time, then cast their spell. It is far better to do as TransmorpherDDS suggested: cast the spell and leave your reaction free for something like Counterspell.
I agree with TransmorpherDDS, it seems simpler and safer to just cast Silence as normal, rather than using the Ready action.
One scenario that does makes sense to me is if you know a martial ally goes between you and the enemy caster. You could suggest to your ally that they grapple the enemy and then Ready Silence for when your ally grapples the enemy. This way your Silence clearly goes off before the enemy starts casting and when the enemies turn comes around they are grappled by a martial and can't cast most spells. Though this sort of scenario could play out without the need of the ready action is the initiative order is instead martial, you, enemy.
With the order you martial enemy you still don't need a ready action. You can cast silence and then the martial can try to grapple the enemy so they can not move out of the area of silence.
I agree with TransmorpherDDS, it seems simpler and safer to just cast Silence as normal, rather than using the Ready action.
One scenario that does makes sense to me is if you know a martial ally goes between you and the enemy caster. You could suggest to your ally that they grapple the enemy and then Ready Silence for when your ally grapples the enemy. This way your Silence clearly goes off before the enemy starts casting and when the enemies turn comes around they are grappled by a martial and can't cast most spells. Though this sort of scenario could play out without the need of the ready action is the initiative order is instead martial, you, enemy.
With the order you martial enemy you still don't need a ready action. You can cast silence and then the martial can try to grapple the enemy so they can not move out of the area of silence.
Without a martial it can still be a good move (if the "begins casting a spell" is accepted as a trigger which is over before the spell is completed). Silence has a range of 120 ft and you do not need sight so it is very likely the enemy can not get out of range, at least not without either casting a spell or using their action to dash. It is a level lower than counterspell but the enemy doesn't waste their spell slot and most casters have some spells with no V component they can still cast. Subtle casting would usually result in the enemy wasting a spell slot as they don't know the silence spell is being held.
Without a martial it can still be a good move (if the "begins casting a spell" is accepted as a trigger which is over before the spell is completed). Silence has a range of 120 ft and you do not need sight so it is very likely the enemy can not get out of range, at least not without either casting a spell or using their action to dash. It is a level lower than counterspell but the enemy doesn't waste their spell slot and most casters have some spells with no V component they can still cast. Subtle casting would usually result in the enemy wasting a spell slot as they don't know the silence spell is being held.
So you could ready the casting action on a trigger of "If an enemy spellcaster comes within range and then pauses." That should throw out the silence before they have a change to begin spellcasting.
Without a martial it can still be a good move (if the "begins casting a spell" is accepted as a trigger which is over before the spell is completed). Silence has a range of 120 ft and you do not need sight so it is very likely the enemy can not get out of range, at least not without either casting a spell or using their action to dash. It is a level lower than counterspell but the enemy doesn't waste their spell slot and most casters have some spells with no V component they can still cast. Subtle casting would usually result in the enemy wasting a spell slot as they don't know the silence spell is being held.
So you could ready the casting action on a trigger of "If an enemy spellcaster comes within range and then pauses." That should throw out the silence before they have a change to begin spellcasting.
Legitimate question: what part of the rules for 5e specifies that you cannot cast while moving?
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
but dont they wase there action once i cast Silence even if they move after there action is spent? so hold action untill they try to cast a spell again
No, because either they're blocked from taking the action in the first place, or you don't get the effect up until after they've cast their spell. The only spell that can interrupt a cast after the action has been spent is Counterspell.
Without a martial it can still be a good move (if the "begins casting a spell" is accepted as a trigger which is over before the spell is completed). Silence has a range of 120 ft and you do not need sight so it is very likely the enemy can not get out of range, at least not without either casting a spell or using their action to dash. It is a level lower than counterspell but the enemy doesn't waste their spell slot and most casters have some spells with no V component they can still cast. Subtle casting would usually result in the enemy wasting a spell slot as they don't know the silence spell is being held.
So you could ready the casting action on a trigger of "If an enemy spellcaster comes within range and then pauses." That should throw out the silence before they have a change to begin spellcasting.
Legitimate question: what part of the rules for 5e specifies that you cannot cast while moving?
That's a very fair question. I interpreted the rule for breaking up your move to indicate that at any moment you are either moving or taking an action, but not both. But hey, maybe you can take an action on the move.
You can break up your movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action. For example, if you have a speed of 30 feet, you can move 10 feet, take your action, and then move 20 feet.
By this standard, your action "breaks up" your movement, but whether this constitutes a perceptible pause is more of my inference than something quoted from RAW, I suppose.
Without a martial it can still be a good move (if the "begins casting a spell" is accepted as a trigger which is over before the spell is completed). Silence has a range of 120 ft and you do not need sight so it is very likely the enemy can not get out of range, at least not without either casting a spell or using their action to dash. It is a level lower than counterspell but the enemy doesn't waste their spell slot and most casters have some spells with no V component they can still cast. Subtle casting would usually result in the enemy wasting a spell slot as they don't know the silence spell is being held.
So you could ready the casting action on a trigger of "If an enemy spellcaster comes within range and then pauses." That should throw out the silence before they have a change to begin spellcasting.
Legitimate question: what part of the rules for 5e specifies that you cannot cast while moving?
That's a very fair question. I interpreted the rule for breaking up your move to indicate that at any moment you are either moving or taking an action, but not both. But hey, maybe you can take an action on the move.
You can break up your movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action. For example, if you have a speed of 30 feet, you can move 10 feet, take your action, and then move 20 feet.
By this standard, your action "breaks up" your movement, but whether this constitutes a perceptible pause is more of my inference than something quoted from RAW, I suppose.
You can move between attacks in the same action, so I've interpreted movement as something that's always happening in tandem with an action. If you can walk and swing a sword at the same time, why not walk and talk/gesture?
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
You can move between attacks in the same action, so I've interpreted movement as something that's always happening in tandem with an action. If you can walk and swing a sword at the same time,why not walk and talk/gesture?
Who said you can though? The rule says "between" the attacks, not while or at the same time. If one looks at what one can do in RL then you probably should be able to walk and swing a weapon (some at least) or walk and cast a spell but I've not seen anything in the rules that allows it.
You can move between attacks in the same action, so I've interpreted movement as something that's always happening in tandem with an action. If you can walk and swing a sword at the same time, why not walk and talk/gesture?
I do not take the bolded part as a settled fact, since I am making the case that it isn't. Even so, moving between attacks isn't the same thing as breaking up your movement to take an action. It's the opposite, actually, with its own specific rule to handle that situation.
Again, not saying your interpretation is wrong--it's just now how I have interpret the rule.
I know we're talking about the nitpicky details of a game system vs realism, and in that spirit I'm not saying your interpretation is necessarily wrong either. I do think this is a case where you're potentially overcomplicating what I think is intended to be simple. Movement in 5e isn't like previous editions in which your interpretation is undeniably correct. In this edition, they've gone out of their way to showcase how flexible movement can be used during a round. Just the fact that you can move at all after making any kind of attack is evidence enough of a massive paradigm shift. A couple of examples come to mind that illustrate my line of thought.
Taking the Dash action doesn't mean you walk your full movement, pause, then walk a second full movement at the same speed. It means you take the conscious action to move faster, covering more ground in the same amount of time. You're running the whole time, so your action and movement are occurring at the same time. Is this a specific rule? Yes, yet it's worth considering that "specific beats general" is only relevant when there's a contradiction to a general rule. There is no general rule stating movement can't/doesn't happen in tandem with actions. I think the general rule allows for movement to be used however the player wants.
More specific to spellcasting, there's nothing in the spellcasting rules stating you must stand still in order to cast a spell. Nothing about casting time precludes movement. Spells with a casting time longer than 1 action only require you to use your action every turn on casting the spell, and there's no part of the rule that takes away your ability to move as much as you want while doing so. VSM component rules don't say you have to stay still. On the contrary, having a somatic component implies movement can be necessary! The somatic component for a Bard could easily be described as a dance.
All of this is to say I think movement is entirely agnostic in 5e, and I personally think that's a good thing. If my player wants to describe their turn as attacking/casting while running and jumping, I see no rule or thematic reason to tell them they can't.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Honestly, I don't understand where this question of moving comes up. In terms of actual play, you cannot be in motion while in the middle of casting a spell; anytime you cast a spell, make an attack roll, etc. you're doing it from a fixed position, otherwise you couldn't determine things like range or adjacency. With regards to somehow kludging Silence into a Counterspell, you definitely cannot attempt to interrupt a spell mid-cast. Even Counterspell needs to wait until the spell has been fully cast, and then try to negate it before it takes effect. You can either cast Silence before the other character takes their Action (not as, you'd need to set a trigger prior to them taking the Cast Spell Action), giving them the option to walk out of the affected area, or you can cast Silence in response to them casting a spell, at which point their spell is already fully cast.
Honestly, I don't understand where this question of moving comes up. In terms of actual play, you cannot be in motion while in the middle of casting a spell; anytime you cast a spell, make an attack roll, etc. you're doing it from a fixed position, otherwise you couldn't determine things like range or adjacency. With regards to somehow kludging Silence into a Counterspell, you definitely cannot attempt to interrupt a spell mid-cast. Even Counterspell needs to wait until the spell has been fully cast, and then try to negate it before it takes effect. You can either cast Silence before the other character takes their Action (not as, you'd need to set a trigger prior to them taking the Cast Spell Action), giving them the option to walk out of the affected area, or you can cast Silence in response to them casting a spell, at which point their spell is already fully cast.
Since you asked, the context of the discussion was the attempt to find a valid trigger for a target in range who was potentially about to cast a spell. But in order to be useful, the trigger would have to occur before the casting action began, rather than in response to the casting. What I was proposing was dubious because even though the general rule says the target breaks their movement to take an action, it is still not a sure thing that the break in the target's movement would constitute a perceivable trigger to kick off your held action before the triggering creature took the [Tooltip Not Found] action. I still think it might work, but I'm not going to fight to the death to defend that position :)
It's been a pretty fun analysis of the rules, though.
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If I hold my action and say, I cast silence when creature/player cast a spell. Would that work? Will it stop the opponent
I’d say “no”; even with Counterspell you can’t react until they’ve cast the spell, so by the time you’ve silenced them, they’ve completed the V component of the current spell.
From the Ready action:
"When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger." - https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/combat#Ready
Very few reactions are resolved before their triggers, the main examples being Opportunity Attacks and Counterspell.
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ModeratorIt might work if you phrase it "When a creature begins casting a spell", so the trigger occurs after they started casting, but before they've finished. Up to DM discretion.
Also keep in mind that readying an action to cast a spell requires concentration.
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Seems to run pretty counter to RAI, particularly given that Silence is a level below Counterspell and would automatically stop any spell with a V component with no rolls like that.
I think the problem is... you already have to spend the spell slot and concentrate on the spell just to hold it... you might as well just cast the spell at that point and leave your reaction free.
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I think the intent of the player is pretty clear and are investing considerable resources and risk just to cast the spell. I would definitely let them have it if they want it, but I would also make sure the player understood that Silence basically sucks. A caster is going to know what Silence is in most cases and since it is their turn, they can just step out of range most of the time, then cast their spell. It is far better to do as TransmorpherDDS suggested: cast the spell and leave your reaction free for something like Counterspell.
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I agree with TransmorpherDDS, it seems simpler and safer to just cast Silence as normal, rather than using the Ready action.
One scenario that does makes sense to me is if you know a martial ally goes between you and the enemy caster. You could suggest to your ally that they grapple the enemy and then Ready Silence for when your ally grapples the enemy. This way your Silence clearly goes off before the enemy starts casting and when the enemies turn comes around they are grappled by a martial and can't cast most spells. Though this sort of scenario could play out without the need of the ready action is the initiative order is instead martial, you, enemy.
With the order you martial enemy you still don't need a ready action. You can cast silence and then the martial can try to grapple the enemy so they can not move out of the area of silence.
With the order you martial enemy you still don't need a ready action. You can cast silence and then the martial can try to grapple the enemy so they can not move out of the area of silence.
Without a martial it can still be a good move (if the "begins casting a spell" is accepted as a trigger which is over before the spell is completed). Silence has a range of 120 ft and you do not need sight so it is very likely the enemy can not get out of range, at least not without either casting a spell or using their action to dash. It is a level lower than counterspell but the enemy doesn't waste their spell slot and most casters have some spells with no V component they can still cast. Subtle casting would usually result in the enemy wasting a spell slot as they don't know the silence spell is being held.
So you could ready the casting action on a trigger of "If an enemy spellcaster comes within range and then pauses." That should throw out the silence before they have a change to begin spellcasting.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Legitimate question: what part of the rules for 5e specifies that you cannot cast while moving?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
but dont they wase there action once i cast Silence even if they move after there action is spent?
No, because either they're blocked from taking the action in the first place, or you don't get the effect up until after they've cast their spell. The only spell that can interrupt a cast after the action has been spent is Counterspell.
That's a very fair question. I interpreted the rule for breaking up your move to indicate that at any moment you are either moving or taking an action, but not both. But hey, maybe you can take an action on the move.
By this standard, your action "breaks up" your movement, but whether this constitutes a perceptible pause is more of my inference than something quoted from RAW, I suppose.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
You can move between attacks in the same action, so I've interpreted movement as something that's always happening in tandem with an action. If you can walk and swing a sword at the same time, why not walk and talk/gesture?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Who said you can though? The rule says "between" the attacks, not while or at the same time. If one looks at what one can do in RL then you probably should be able to walk and swing a weapon (some at least) or walk and cast a spell but I've not seen anything in the rules that allows it.
I do not take the bolded part as a settled fact, since I am making the case that it isn't. Even so, moving between attacks isn't the same thing as breaking up your movement to take an action. It's the opposite, actually, with its own specific rule to handle that situation.
Again, not saying your interpretation is wrong--it's just now how I have interpret the rule.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I know we're talking about the nitpicky details of a game system vs realism, and in that spirit I'm not saying your interpretation is necessarily wrong either. I do think this is a case where you're potentially overcomplicating what I think is intended to be simple. Movement in 5e isn't like previous editions in which your interpretation is undeniably correct. In this edition, they've gone out of their way to showcase how flexible movement can be used during a round. Just the fact that you can move at all after making any kind of attack is evidence enough of a massive paradigm shift. A couple of examples come to mind that illustrate my line of thought.
Taking the Dash action doesn't mean you walk your full movement, pause, then walk a second full movement at the same speed. It means you take the conscious action to move faster, covering more ground in the same amount of time. You're running the whole time, so your action and movement are occurring at the same time. Is this a specific rule? Yes, yet it's worth considering that "specific beats general" is only relevant when there's a contradiction to a general rule. There is no general rule stating movement can't/doesn't happen in tandem with actions. I think the general rule allows for movement to be used however the player wants.
More specific to spellcasting, there's nothing in the spellcasting rules stating you must stand still in order to cast a spell. Nothing about casting time precludes movement. Spells with a casting time longer than 1 action only require you to use your action every turn on casting the spell, and there's no part of the rule that takes away your ability to move as much as you want while doing so. VSM component rules don't say you have to stay still. On the contrary, having a somatic component implies movement can be necessary! The somatic component for a Bard could easily be described as a dance.
All of this is to say I think movement is entirely agnostic in 5e, and I personally think that's a good thing. If my player wants to describe their turn as attacking/casting while running and jumping, I see no rule or thematic reason to tell them they can't.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Honestly, I don't understand where this question of moving comes up. In terms of actual play, you cannot be in motion while in the middle of casting a spell; anytime you cast a spell, make an attack roll, etc. you're doing it from a fixed position, otherwise you couldn't determine things like range or adjacency. With regards to somehow kludging Silence into a Counterspell, you definitely cannot attempt to interrupt a spell mid-cast. Even Counterspell needs to wait until the spell has been fully cast, and then try to negate it before it takes effect. You can either cast Silence before the other character takes their Action (not as, you'd need to set a trigger prior to them taking the Cast Spell Action), giving them the option to walk out of the affected area, or you can cast Silence in response to them casting a spell, at which point their spell is already fully cast.
Since you asked, the context of the discussion was the attempt to find a valid trigger for a target in range who was potentially about to cast a spell. But in order to be useful, the trigger would have to occur before the casting action began, rather than in response to the casting. What I was proposing was dubious because even though the general rule says the target breaks their movement to take an action, it is still not a sure thing that the break in the target's movement would constitute a perceivable trigger to kick off your held action before the triggering creature took the [Tooltip Not Found] action. I still think it might work, but I'm not going to fight to the death to defend that position :)
It's been a pretty fun analysis of the rules, though.
"Not all those who wander are lost"