I need help, because I don't get it. I read counterspell, read about the optional rule for recognising spells, watched YouTube video's on it, read Reddit posts, looked on this forum and I still don't get it. So, maybe I am stupid.
Why is it good and worth it?
As PC I run into a group of enemies and there's potentially a spellcaster among them. I'm first and cast a little mage armour to protect myself. Then one of them casts something. Now, I can use my reaction to find out what they're casting OR cast counterspell. If I cast counterspell I just used my 3rd lvl slot on their.... cantrip. I did stop it, but next they cast something and I'm out of 3rd lvl slots and they cast... fireball. Even if I'm a high level mage and use the spell point system, in a mage battle while I can stop their spells for a good while, who's to say they were worth stopping? The tank could have easily handled that Eldritch blast. It would hurt, but the cleric has their healing spells if it's needed. If the wizard counters every spell the opponent tries to cast and casts their own spells, they'll run out of spells way before the opponent. Sure, you can argue they might kill the npc in the mean time. But... then there's a second group of opponents that got attracted by all the noise... my wizard is bone dry from the spell battle and can either run in with his mage armour to probably die or throw his cantrips that tickle the enemies.
How is using counterspell better then using fog cloud, shield, darkness, mirror image, invisibility, moving back and spreading out or any of the other things you can do to escape, hinder or such the npc casters?
The assumption is that powerful casters will use powerful spells. If they use weak spells to bait your counterspells, then they aren't casting the big guns, and the primary limit on enemies' casting is not their spell slots, but the amount of time it takes the party to reduce them to a fine paste.
While you did describe how the spell works, RAW, I don't know of any table that plays it that way. The DM would have to play it like:
DM: The evil wizard casts a spell... does anyone want to do anything? PCs: *silence* DM: OK, so the spell was fireball, and you need to make a DEX save.
Think about how disjointed that makes gameplay. And then, what, the players do the same thing when they suspect the DM is controlling an NPC who might have counterspell? Also, maybe it's just my DM style, but if a PC or an NPC uses the same spell twice in the same encounter, I will assume a reasonably intelligent creature recognizes that it's going to be the same spell from before.
Most enemies last on average 2 rounds of combat. So two 3rd level spell slots can completely prevent a spellcasting enemy from doing anything in an entire combat. Spellcasters can generally do more total damage to the party via AoE spells than other enemies or can completely cripple the party using battlefield control spells, so it is generally worth it to prevent them from doing anything.
Spellcasting enemies that aren't using their big spells in the first two rounds are crippling themselves, and their big spells will go to waste as they will die before they get to cast them.
Hmm, really? If you simply know what the spell is whenever they're casting something using spell components that to me takes away some of the excitement of a spell battle. But that way it does make a counterspell useful, though perhaps then a bit too powerful. I guess you could compromise and say that the Arcane skill can be used as a free reaction when a spell is cast to try and recognise the spell. Though that does turn a spell battle into a very dice heavy thing. Not sure how I feel about that.
Hmm, really? If you simply know what the spell is whenever they're casting something using spell components that to me takes away some of the excitement of a spell battle. But that way it does make a counterspell useful, though perhaps then a bit too powerful. I guess you could compromise and say that the Arcane skill can be used as a free reaction when a spell is cast to try and recognise the spell. Though that does turn a spell battle into a very dice heavy thing. Not sure how I feel about that.
It is a house rule, but it seems like a reasonable one. If you yell 'Shazam!' and wave your hands around in a circle and a big fireball comes out, then it seems reasonable that next time you yell the same thing and wave your hands around the same way, an intelligent target will realize the same spell is likely to come out again.
Strict RAW: All you see is a spell being cast, and you have to decide whether to use counterspell prior to knowing what the spell is.
Maybe it's because it is our first 5e campaign but our combats tend to last longer then that. Also, as a DM I'm probably a bit more mean. Like I'd probably have the enemy caster (if they had the chance) prepare for the combat with things like mage armour and maybe greater invisibility or perhaps have some tactic like darkness on a devil sight melee fighter, etc. Does mean the caster already has a concentration spell up and running so they'd then be limited in spells. And they'd probably stay out of counterspell range if the area allows, bit harder with most indoor combats. I see your point, perhaps I just need to play some higher then lvl 6 spell battles.
Maybe it's because it is our first 5e campaign but our combats tend to last longer then that. Also, as a DM I'm probably a bit more mean. Like I'd probably have the enemy caster (if they had the chance) prepare for the combat with things like mage armour and maybe greater invisibility or perhaps have some tactic like darkness on a devil sight melee fighter, etc. Does mean the caster already has a concentration spell up and running so they'd then be limited in spells. And they'd probably stay out of counterspell range if the area allows, bit harder with most indoor combats. I see your point, perhaps I just need to play some higher then lvl 6 spell battles.
At 6th level Counterspell isn't as good of a trade, but once you have 5th level spell slots spending a 3rd level one to potentially cancel a baddie's 6th or 7th level spell is a really good trade.
Note: Greater Invisibility lasts for only 1 minute, it's rare that an enemy would be able to pre-cast it. But sure, the baddies will try to avoid being counterspelled but that comes with its own trade offs, and if simply the threat of being counterspelled costs the enemy caster their first turn to cast Greater Invisibility or restricts them to spells with range > 60ft (which excludes a lot of spells) that is still a really good deal.
Note to mention that breaking Greater Invisibility isn't that hard - an AoE of your own, or Faerie Fire (or similar effects), or a few good hits from the barbarian can usually drop it.
I need help, because I don't get it. I read counterspell, read about the optional rule for recognising spells, watched YouTube video's on it, read Reddit posts, looked on this forum and I still don't get it. So, maybe I am stupid.
Why is it good and worth it?
As PC I run into a group of enemies and there's potentially a spellcaster among them. I'm first and cast a little mage armour to protect myself. Then one of them casts something. Now, I can use my reaction to find out what they're casting OR cast counterspell. If I cast counterspell I just used my 3rd lvl slot on their.... cantrip. I did stop it, but next they cast something and I'm out of 3rd lvl slots and they cast... fireball. Even if I'm a high level mage and use the spell point system, in a mage battle while I can stop their spells for a good while, who's to say they were worth stopping? The tank could have easily handled that Eldritch blast. It would hurt, but the cleric has their healing spells if it's needed. If the wizard counters every spell the opponent tries to cast and casts their own spells, they'll run out of spells way before the opponent. Sure, you can argue they might kill the npc in the mean time. But... then there's a second group of opponents that got attracted by all the noise... my wizard is bone dry from the spell battle and can either run in with his mage armour to probably die or throw his cantrips that tickle the enemies.
How is using counterspell better then using fog cloud, shield, darkness, mirror image, invisibility, moving back and spreading out or any of the other things you can do to escape, hinder or such the npc casters?
The assumption is that powerful casters will use powerful spells. If they use weak spells to bait your counterspells, then they aren't casting the big guns, and the primary limit on enemies' casting is not their spell slots, but the amount of time it takes the party to reduce them to a fine paste.
While you did describe how the spell works, RAW, I don't know of any table that plays it that way. The DM would have to play it like:
DM: The evil wizard casts a spell... does anyone want to do anything?
PCs: *silence*
DM: OK, so the spell was fireball, and you need to make a DEX save.
Think about how disjointed that makes gameplay. And then, what, the players do the same thing when they suspect the DM is controlling an NPC who might have counterspell? Also, maybe it's just my DM style, but if a PC or an NPC uses the same spell twice in the same encounter, I will assume a reasonably intelligent creature recognizes that it's going to be the same spell from before.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Most enemies last on average 2 rounds of combat. So two 3rd level spell slots can completely prevent a spellcasting enemy from doing anything in an entire combat. Spellcasters can generally do more total damage to the party via AoE spells than other enemies or can completely cripple the party using battlefield control spells, so it is generally worth it to prevent them from doing anything.
Spellcasting enemies that aren't using their big spells in the first two rounds are crippling themselves, and their big spells will go to waste as they will die before they get to cast them.
@TexasDevin
Hmm, really? If you simply know what the spell is whenever they're casting something using spell components that to me takes away some of the excitement of a spell battle. But that way it does make a counterspell useful, though perhaps then a bit too powerful. I guess you could compromise and say that the Arcane skill can be used as a free reaction when a spell is cast to try and recognise the spell. Though that does turn a spell battle into a very dice heavy thing. Not sure how I feel about that.
It is a house rule, but it seems like a reasonable one. If you yell 'Shazam!' and wave your hands around in a circle and a big fireball comes out, then it seems reasonable that next time you yell the same thing and wave your hands around the same way, an intelligent target will realize the same spell is likely to come out again.
Strict RAW: All you see is a spell being cast, and you have to decide whether to use counterspell prior to knowing what the spell is.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
@Agilemind
Maybe it's because it is our first 5e campaign but our combats tend to last longer then that. Also, as a DM I'm probably a bit more mean. Like I'd probably have the enemy caster (if they had the chance) prepare for the combat with things like mage armour and maybe greater invisibility or perhaps have some tactic like darkness on a devil sight melee fighter, etc. Does mean the caster already has a concentration spell up and running so they'd then be limited in spells. And they'd probably stay out of counterspell range if the area allows, bit harder with most indoor combats.
I see your point, perhaps I just need to play some higher then lvl 6 spell battles.
At 6th level Counterspell isn't as good of a trade, but once you have 5th level spell slots spending a 3rd level one to potentially cancel a baddie's 6th or 7th level spell is a really good trade.
Note: Greater Invisibility lasts for only 1 minute, it's rare that an enemy would be able to pre-cast it. But sure, the baddies will try to avoid being counterspelled but that comes with its own trade offs, and if simply the threat of being counterspelled costs the enemy caster their first turn to cast Greater Invisibility or restricts them to spells with range > 60ft (which excludes a lot of spells) that is still a really good deal.
Note to mention that breaking Greater Invisibility isn't that hard - an AoE of your own, or Faerie Fire (or similar effects), or a few good hits from the barbarian can usually drop it.