This spell allows you to find the shortest, most direct physical route to a specific fixed location that you are familiar with on the same plane of existence. If you name a destination on another plane of existence, a destination that moves (such as a mobile fortress), or a destination that isn't specific (such as "a green dragon's lair"), the spell fails.
For the duration, as long as you are on the same plane of existence as the destination, you know how far it is and in what direction it lies. While you are traveling there, whenever you are presented with a choice of paths along the way, you automatically determine which path is the shortest and most direct route (but not necessarily the safest route) to the destination.
* - (a set of divinatory tools--such as bones, ivory sticks, cards, teeth, or carved runes--worth 100 gp and an object from the location you wish to find)
I've been running a campaign for a bit over two years now. My players have reached a level where they are casting 6th level spells (7th if they didn't multi-class). When they were picking spells they noticed this 6th level spell. None of us, can for the life of us, figure out what makes this a 6th level spell. We are all just so confused that I felt I would ask here what people think the purpose of this high level spell is.
The problem with this spell comes from its requirements. You need an item from the location you wish to find. You must also be familiar with the location. You also need 100 gold worth of divination tools.
What does this spell do? It lets you know how to get to a place you are familiar with. That you must already have an item from. It doesn't even give you a safe route. Just the shortest and it makes a distinction to mention this. So no finding a hidden path into a castle or avoiding guards with it. If you're already familiar with it wouldn't you already know how to get there? why cost 100 gold? I mean, you even need an item from the place you want to go to. What does this spell do? No one in my group can figure it out. Why is it a level 6 spell? Anyone have some insight on this spell and why it exists?
The spell leaves out a lot and as written could be completely useless depending on how the DM wants to run it.
For example, the spell gives you "the shortest, most direct, physical route". The real answer to this is almost always a straight line. Which makes it even more useless since it won't necessarily give you a usable route since you might need to be able to fly, burrow or swim in order to follow this "shortest most direct physical route".
In terms of use, the caster needs to be "familiar" with the fixed location. They need an object from the location. However, it doesn't say that they need to have been there before. Familiar could include knowing about the location, what it is, information about it but perhaps not exactly where it is located. In this one specific case, Find the Path becomes a tool leading to a quest objective where you already possess an item from the location (maybe a stone, pottery, cutlery, anything at all that came from that location) - you can then use the spell to get there.
However, you can't use just the item itself "I wonder where this came from?" because the caster needs to be "familiar" with the location. This leads to the character researching the item, determining where it might have come from, then using Find the Path to guide them to the source of the item.
So, I think of Find the Path as a high level quest solving tool for characters to use to complete specific sorts of tasks. (very niche application)
This is not a straight line, the whole point of this is to lead you in a useable route which is clearly RAI. Any other interpretation is just plain foolish. Similarly, the 'destination that moves' does NOT count the world as moving. It means moves in relationship to the caster.
This spell has two specific uses:
Returning to a location you have already been, preventing you from being lost, including preventing you from being lost in a maze - magical or otherwise. Safety Tip, never take do the hood kidnapping treatment on a high level bard, cleric or druid.
Deus Ex Machina Spell. The DM gives you an object from the desired location and some kind of vision (scry spell, etc.) that the DM declares makes you 'familiar' with it.
The returning to a location is why people take the spell, the Deus Ex Machina is something the DM decides to do sometime after you take the spell.
That said, it is not my favorite 6th level spell. True Seeing is a better information spell,
It is very niche, but it's also a Cleric spell. There's no Cleric who has to weigh how often this spell will come up, and decide if it's worth taking -- he just prepares it when it's useful, and when it isn't, he doesn't. (Druid too. The fact that it's also a Bard spell breaks this somewhat. RIP Bards.)
I do think it's kinda stupid though. It would've been fine to make it either/or: either you know the place, or you have something from the place.
Very niche as mentioned above. I appreciate folks pointing out a few uses. Level 6 seems way too high as normally simple skill checks such as survival, history and investigation can get the same info. I would imagine there was some reason it was made a 6th level spell instead of 1st or 2nd. I'd love to know why. Anyway, thanks for talking it out.
Very niche as mentioned above. I appreciate folks pointing out a few uses. Level 6 seems way too high as normally simple skill checks such as survival, history and investigation can get the same info. I would imagine there was some reason it was made a 6th level spell instead of 1st or 2nd. I'd love to know why. Anyway, thanks for talking it out.
It's one of those things where, for 90% of games, it's a huge waste of a spell that clearly falls apart for the criticisms levied at it in this very thread. However, there's that 1 in 10 situation where there's some kind of complicated, lost location that maybe the characters have recovered some artifact from earlier that's meant to have a complicated, bizarre path to reach that challenges the players for survival, exploration, etc... and this just solves that problem instantly. It can, under the right conditions, completely end multiple sessions worth of adventuring.
I uh... can't say that it's necessarily THAT good to the point that it needs to be saved for a 6th level spell, but it does have high potential under very, very specific circumstances. I think part of the reason it doesn't hold up so well is the same reason Rangers have needed new optional rules... it addresses challenges in the game that most tables just skip.
This spell allows you to find the shortest, most direct physical route to a specific fixed location that you are familiar with on the same plane of existence. If you name a destination on another plane of existence, a destination that moves (such as a mobile fortress), or a destination that isn't specific (such as "a green dragon's lair"), the spell fails.
For the duration, as long as you are on the same plane of existence as the destination, you know how far it is and in what direction it lies. While you are traveling there, whenever you are presented with a choice of paths along the way, you automatically determine which path is the shortest and most direct route (but not necessarily the safest route) to the destination.
* - (a set of divinatory tools--such as bones, ivory sticks, cards, teeth, or carved runes--worth 100 gp and an object from the location you wish to find)
I've been running a campaign for a bit over two years now. My players have reached a level where they are casting 6th level spells (7th if they didn't multi-class). When they were picking spells they noticed this 6th level spell. None of us, can for the life of us, figure out what makes this a 6th level spell. We are all just so confused that I felt I would ask here what people think the purpose of this high level spell is.
The problem with this spell comes from its requirements. You need an item from the location you wish to find. You must also be familiar with the location. You also need 100 gold worth of divination tools.
What does this spell do? It lets you know how to get to a place you are familiar with. That you must already have an item from. It doesn't even give you a safe route. Just the shortest and it makes a distinction to mention this. So no finding a hidden path into a castle or avoiding guards with it. If you're already familiar with it wouldn't you already know how to get there? why cost 100 gold? I mean, you even need an item from the place you want to go to. What does this spell do? No one in my group can figure it out. Why is it a level 6 spell? Anyone have some insight on this spell and why it exists?
The fact that it says you must be "familiar" with the location and it can't be "generic" leaves a lot of interpretation regarding where you can go. Find a tome from and talking about the lost city of Khazar-Dam? Well, at my table, that would count as familiar and specific, as you can target "The city of Khazar-Dam" despite never being there. (the tome becomes the material component)
Similarly, while you can't target "a green dragon's lair" you could target "the lair of the green dragon Barthangalakhesh" if you knew the dragons name, and had a scale or a piece of its hoard (and presumably know that the lair exists).
Basically, it allows you to unerringly find a location anywhere in the same plane as you so long as you have something from there and enough information to name the location (which would count, at least at my table, as "familiar"). My group could use this spell, actually, since part of their campaign is to navigate an ancient and ruined city to find the sister artifact to one they have found.
This is not a straight line, the whole point of this is to lead you in a useable route which is clearly RAI. Any other interpretation is just plain foolish. Similarly, the 'destination that moves' does NOT count the world as moving. It means moves in relationship to the caster.
This spell has two specific uses:
Returning to a location you have already been, preventing you from being lost, including preventing you from being lost in a maze - magical or otherwise. Safety Tip, never take do the hood kidnapping treatment on a high level bard, cleric or druid.
Deus Ex Machina Spell. The DM gives you an object from the desired location and some kind of vision (scry spell, etc.) that the DM declares makes you 'familiar' with it.
The returning to a location is why people take the spell, the Deus Ex Machina is something the DM decides to do sometime after you take the spell.
That said, it is not my favorite 6th level spell. True Seeing is a better information spell,
I agree with your comments about the uses of Find the Path. It is niche but it does have a use.
However, RAW the spell gives you the "the shortest, most direct, physical route". The spell doesn't specify the mode of transportation that is used to determine this route. You say that the whole point of the spell is to lead you to a "usable" route.
However, what is "usable" depends on the capabilities of the party.
Does the spell assume that the party is walking? If so then there is no physical route to a location on an island. So the spell now has to assume that the characters can swim.
What happens if the destination is under water? What happens if the destination is beneath a pool of lava or buried underground?
What happens if the location is 3 miles away on the other side of an impassable mountain range for a party that has the ability to fly? Does the spell give them a route that will take three weeks to travel around the mountains to the other side? Or does it give a route that is a straight line up and over the mountains even though they are impassable without magic?
What happens if the location is behind a wall of force and there is NO physical route at all to the location? Does the spell fail?
The point I am making is ... does the spell know the capabilities of the party so that the answer given is tailored to what the party is capable of doing? That is the only way to obtain a "usable" answer in all cases, unless the spell simply points in a straight line towards the destination allowing the party to overcome whatever obstacles might be in the way.
There is a lot of DM leeway with this spell but just saying it is obvious that it gives a usable route makes a lot of assumptions about what usable means for different groups.
I think part of the reason it doesn't hold up so well is the same reason Rangers have needed new optional rules... it addresses challenges in the game that most tables just skip.
It's also worth noting that this is a legacy spell, meaning it wasn't exactly made to fit within the design of 5e. They knew they wanted to include the spell, they updated the description a bit, ballparked a level, and called it good. Several legacy spells have this same kind of "meh, good enough" vibe.
Very late to this party, but — the rules for material components allow you to use a spell casting focus in place of any material component, unless that material has a cost or is consumed by the spell. The divination material components have a cost, but the “item from the location” does not, nor is it consumed. It can be up to DM discretion, but RAW, you do not need this piece to cast the spell. This greatly increases its usefulness.
As for the question of does “shortest physical route” mean it always gives a straight line, or does it consider modes of transportation: I think it gives you any option you would choose. It clearly takes roads into account, as the spell specifically states you know which way to go at a fork in the road. And you know the distance and direction at all times, which is a straight line. So I think, if your destination was on the other side of a mountain range, you would know the distance and direction, and you would also know the shortest flying route if you sought to fly, and you would also know the shortest pathable ground route.
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Find The Path
This spell allows you to find the shortest, most direct physical route to a specific fixed location that you are familiar with on the same plane of existence. If you name a destination on another plane of existence, a destination that moves (such as a mobile fortress), or a destination that isn't specific (such as "a green dragon's lair"), the spell fails.
For the duration, as long as you are on the same plane of existence as the destination, you know how far it is and in what direction it lies. While you are traveling there, whenever you are presented with a choice of paths along the way, you automatically determine which path is the shortest and most direct route (but not necessarily the safest route) to the destination.
* - (a set of divinatory tools--such as bones, ivory sticks, cards, teeth, or carved runes--worth 100 gp and an object from the location you wish to find)
I've been running a campaign for a bit over two years now. My players have reached a level where they are casting 6th level spells (7th if they didn't multi-class). When they were picking spells they noticed this 6th level spell. None of us, can for the life of us, figure out what makes this a 6th level spell. We are all just so confused that I felt I would ask here what people think the purpose of this high level spell is.
The problem with this spell comes from its requirements. You need an item from the location you wish to find. You must also be familiar with the location. You also need 100 gold worth of divination tools.
What does this spell do? It lets you know how to get to a place you are familiar with. That you must already have an item from. It doesn't even give you a safe route. Just the shortest and it makes a distinction to mention this. So no finding a hidden path into a castle or avoiding guards with it. If you're already familiar with it wouldn't you already know how to get there? why cost 100 gold? I mean, you even need an item from the place you want to go to. What does this spell do? No one in my group can figure it out. Why is it a level 6 spell? Anyone have some insight on this spell and why it exists?
Have you never been lost? This spell will let you always find your way back home.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The spell leaves out a lot and as written could be completely useless depending on how the DM wants to run it.
For example, the spell gives you "the shortest, most direct, physical route". The real answer to this is almost always a straight line. Which makes it even more useless since it won't necessarily give you a usable route since you might need to be able to fly, burrow or swim in order to follow this "shortest most direct physical route".
In terms of use, the caster needs to be "familiar" with the fixed location. They need an object from the location. However, it doesn't say that they need to have been there before. Familiar could include knowing about the location, what it is, information about it but perhaps not exactly where it is located. In this one specific case, Find the Path becomes a tool leading to a quest objective where you already possess an item from the location (maybe a stone, pottery, cutlery, anything at all that came from that location) - you can then use the spell to get there.
However, you can't use just the item itself "I wonder where this came from?" because the caster needs to be "familiar" with the location. This leads to the character researching the item, determining where it might have come from, then using Find the Path to guide them to the source of the item.
So, I think of Find the Path as a high level quest solving tool for characters to use to complete specific sorts of tasks. (very niche application)
This is not a straight line, the whole point of this is to lead you in a useable route which is clearly RAI. Any other interpretation is just plain foolish. Similarly, the 'destination that moves' does NOT count the world as moving. It means moves in relationship to the caster.
This spell has two specific uses:
The returning to a location is why people take the spell, the Deus Ex Machina is something the DM decides to do sometime after you take the spell.
That said, it is not my favorite 6th level spell. True Seeing is a better information spell,
It is very niche, but it's also a Cleric spell. There's no Cleric who has to weigh how often this spell will come up, and decide if it's worth taking -- he just prepares it when it's useful, and when it isn't, he doesn't. (Druid too. The fact that it's also a Bard spell breaks this somewhat. RIP Bards.)
I do think it's kinda stupid though. It would've been fine to make it either/or: either you know the place, or you have something from the place.
Very niche as mentioned above. I appreciate folks pointing out a few uses. Level 6 seems way too high as normally simple skill checks such as survival, history and investigation can get the same info. I would imagine there was some reason it was made a 6th level spell instead of 1st or 2nd. I'd love to know why. Anyway, thanks for talking it out.
It's one of those things where, for 90% of games, it's a huge waste of a spell that clearly falls apart for the criticisms levied at it in this very thread. However, there's that 1 in 10 situation where there's some kind of complicated, lost location that maybe the characters have recovered some artifact from earlier that's meant to have a complicated, bizarre path to reach that challenges the players for survival, exploration, etc... and this just solves that problem instantly. It can, under the right conditions, completely end multiple sessions worth of adventuring.
I uh... can't say that it's necessarily THAT good to the point that it needs to be saved for a 6th level spell, but it does have high potential under very, very specific circumstances. I think part of the reason it doesn't hold up so well is the same reason Rangers have needed new optional rules... it addresses challenges in the game that most tables just skip.
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The rules for handling this without Find the Path are covered here in the DMG. Casting the spell will let you ignore the DC 0 to 20 Survival/Navigator's Tools /Cartographer's Tools checks ordinarily necessary to avoid becoming lost, depending on biome and travel pace.
The fact that it says you must be "familiar" with the location and it can't be "generic" leaves a lot of interpretation regarding where you can go. Find a tome from and talking about the lost city of Khazar-Dam? Well, at my table, that would count as familiar and specific, as you can target "The city of Khazar-Dam" despite never being there. (the tome becomes the material component)
Similarly, while you can't target "a green dragon's lair" you could target "the lair of the green dragon Barthangalakhesh" if you knew the dragons name, and had a scale or a piece of its hoard (and presumably know that the lair exists).
Basically, it allows you to unerringly find a location anywhere in the same plane as you so long as you have something from there and enough information to name the location (which would count, at least at my table, as "familiar"). My group could use this spell, actually, since part of their campaign is to navigate an ancient and ruined city to find the sister artifact to one they have found.
Yeah, I think if you've heard of a place it would count as being familiar with it.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I agree with your comments about the uses of Find the Path. It is niche but it does have a use.
However, RAW the spell gives you the "the shortest, most direct, physical route". The spell doesn't specify the mode of transportation that is used to determine this route. You say that the whole point of the spell is to lead you to a "usable" route.
However, what is "usable" depends on the capabilities of the party.
Does the spell assume that the party is walking? If so then there is no physical route to a location on an island. So the spell now has to assume that the characters can swim.
What happens if the destination is under water? What happens if the destination is beneath a pool of lava or buried underground?
What happens if the location is 3 miles away on the other side of an impassable mountain range for a party that has the ability to fly? Does the spell give them a route that will take three weeks to travel around the mountains to the other side? Or does it give a route that is a straight line up and over the mountains even though they are impassable without magic?
What happens if the location is behind a wall of force and there is NO physical route at all to the location? Does the spell fail?
The point I am making is ... does the spell know the capabilities of the party so that the answer given is tailored to what the party is capable of doing? That is the only way to obtain a "usable" answer in all cases, unless the spell simply points in a straight line towards the destination allowing the party to overcome whatever obstacles might be in the way.
There is a lot of DM leeway with this spell but just saying it is obvious that it gives a usable route makes a lot of assumptions about what usable means for different groups.
It's also worth noting that this is a legacy spell, meaning it wasn't exactly made to fit within the design of 5e. They knew they wanted to include the spell, they updated the description a bit, ballparked a level, and called it good. Several legacy spells have this same kind of "meh, good enough" vibe.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Very late to this party, but — the rules for material components allow you to use a spell casting focus in place of any material component, unless that material has a cost or is consumed by the spell. The divination material components have a cost, but the “item from the location” does not, nor is it consumed. It can be up to DM discretion, but RAW, you do not need this piece to cast the spell. This greatly increases its usefulness.
As for the question of does “shortest physical route” mean it always gives a straight line, or does it consider modes of transportation: I think it gives you any option you would choose. It clearly takes roads into account, as the spell specifically states you know which way to go at a fork in the road. And you know the distance and direction at all times, which is a straight line. So I think, if your destination was on the other side of a mountain range, you would know the distance and direction, and you would also know the shortest flying route if you sought to fly, and you would also know the shortest pathable ground route.