Thorn whip and eldritch blast with repelling blast (and maybe more but the search bar sucks) move their targets up to 10 feet. My questions are:
Can the caster dictate how far to move the target including not at all?
And can the caster choose the angle to move the target as long as it is in the general direction as dictated by the spell? (For example thorn whip to pull an enemy diagonally toward you instead of straight at you)
Thorn whip and eldritch blast with repelling blast (and maybe more but the search bar sucks) move their targets up to 10 feet. My questions are:
Can the caster dictate how far to move the target including not at all?
And can the caster choose the angle to move the target as long as it is in the general direction as dictated by the spell? (For example thorn whip to pull an enemy diagonally toward you instead of straight at you)
"Up to" indicates that yes, 0 is a possibility. You can choose to do less, but not more.
Sometimes the spell dictates the direction specifically. For instance, it needs to be "closer to you" but that is kind of up to the DM. Always look at the spell what is specified.
As RAJdeBoer said, the key phrase is "up to", so you can manipulate that part.
As to directionality there's two thoughts I have on this: first, generally the spell will push the target in the same direction as the path of the spell using a straight edge. It's the easiest way to resolve the spell, it's the easiest to predict, and it doesn't require any extra mental work on anyone's part. Lord knows DMs brains are about to melt at any given moment as it is, playing billiards with spells and monsters is probably going to expedite that.
Second: if you're going to allow a person to affect directionality, be ready for people to try to manipulate it as much as possible to their advantage.
For example: I allow a Druid to cast Thorn Whip from any location in range. Immediately it causes the ability to be abused, so I had to toy with it and watch how players would abuse it. To that end, I still allow it to be cast from within the range of the spell, however now there has to be valid plant matter that can be used as a whip. If you're in a stone castle, the ability to cast that spell from anywhere but your hand is greatly reduced. If you're underground, the chances are a bit better, and if you're in the forest...have fun. It allows the player to pull their opponents in many different ways, so the players can be a lot more tactical if they so desire. I've had players use trees to lynch enemies, I've had them pull enemies off cliffs, pull them into and out of combat, all manner of uses. The thing is it entertains me and my players, otherwise I'd never let something like that fly.
Our current DM houseruled that in the case of a Tempest Cleric using Call Lightning, since the lightning bolt does not originate from the caster, but rather comes down from above, the creatures affected are pushed away from the point of impact, instead of away from the caster (as specified by the Thunderbolt Strike feature of Tempest Clerics). Not at the player's option, but as a matter of course. I think it's a reasonable houserule, not to prone to abuse, although I do think it wasn't necessary (I imagine the lightning bolt, should the cleric choose to use Thunderbolt Strike, would come from a point between the cleric and the impact point, or behind the cleric, or, if that's impossible, would come down in a "curve", as if being attracted by the cleric, but redirected in direction of the impact point, so that the targeted creatures are pushed away from the caster).
Our current DM houseruled that in the case of a Tempest Cleric using Call Lightning, since the lightning bolt does not originate from the caster, but rather comes down from above, the creatures affected are pushed away from the point of impact, instead of away from the caster (as specified by the Thunderbolt Strike feature of Tempest Clerics). Not at the player's option, but as a matter of course. I think it's a reasonable houserule, not to prone to abuse, although I do think it wasn't necessary (I imagine the lightning bolt, should the cleric choose to use Thunderbolt Strike, would come from a point between the cleric and the impact point, or behind the cleric, or, if that's impossible, would come down in a "curve", as if being attracted by the cleric, but redirected in direction of the impact point, so that the targeted creatures are pushed away from the caster).
Yeah this makes sense. RAW though, the Thunderbolt Strike specifies "you can also push it up to 10 feet away from you." so you are always the source of this pushing effect. I don't think it's game breaking to rule it otherwise though. Might be abusable in very specific situations (like fighting on a bridge or near a canyon for example) but that's pretty much it. I like it flavorwise.
Anywhere between the yellow circle and the red circle or the yellow circle and green circle is, technically, up to 10’ farther away from or 10’ closer to you. I doubt that’s the correct way to parse “push it up to 10’ away” or ‘pull it up to 10’ closer to you.” However, anywhere between the yellow and red circles or the yellow and green circles AND within the black circle is a place that the target has moved up to 10’ AND is, respectively, further or closer to you. (“Thunderbolt Strike” or “Thorn Whip”) Which I think is the correct interpretation, since other effects (“Repelling Blast”) specify “10’ away from you in a straight line” (the blue line)
Anywhere between the yellow circle and the red circle or the yellow circle and green circle is, technically, up to 10’ farther away from or 10’ closer to you. I doubt that’s the correct way to parse “push it up to 10’ away” or ‘pull it up to 10’ closer to you.” However, anywhere between the yellow and red circles or the yellow and green circles AND within the black circle is a place that the target has moved up to 10’ AND is, respectively, further or closer to you. (“Thunderbolt Strike” or “Thorn Whip”) Which I think is the correct interpretation, since other effects (“Repelling Blast”) specify “10’ away from you in a straight line” (the blue line)
A agree with this assessment. And somehow I never noticed the "straight line" part of repelling blast and lightning lure, where thunderbolt strike and thorn whip dont have that restriction.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Thorn whip and eldritch blast with repelling blast (and maybe more but the search bar sucks) move their targets up to 10 feet. My questions are:
Can the caster dictate how far to move the target including not at all?
And can the caster choose the angle to move the target as long as it is in the general direction as dictated by the spell? (For example thorn whip to pull an enemy diagonally toward you instead of straight at you)
Best Answer
"Up to" indicates that yes, 0 is a possibility. You can choose to do less, but not more.
Sometimes the spell dictates the direction specifically. For instance, it needs to be "closer to you" but that is kind of up to the DM. Always look at the spell what is specified.
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
As RAJdeBoer said, the key phrase is "up to", so you can manipulate that part.
As to directionality there's two thoughts I have on this: first, generally the spell will push the target in the same direction as the path of the spell using a straight edge. It's the easiest way to resolve the spell, it's the easiest to predict, and it doesn't require any extra mental work on anyone's part. Lord knows DMs brains are about to melt at any given moment as it is, playing billiards with spells and monsters is probably going to expedite that.
Second: if you're going to allow a person to affect directionality, be ready for people to try to manipulate it as much as possible to their advantage.
For example: I allow a Druid to cast Thorn Whip from any location in range. Immediately it causes the ability to be abused, so I had to toy with it and watch how players would abuse it. To that end, I still allow it to be cast from within the range of the spell, however now there has to be valid plant matter that can be used as a whip. If you're in a stone castle, the ability to cast that spell from anywhere but your hand is greatly reduced. If you're underground, the chances are a bit better, and if you're in the forest...have fun. It allows the player to pull their opponents in many different ways, so the players can be a lot more tactical if they so desire. I've had players use trees to lynch enemies, I've had them pull enemies off cliffs, pull them into and out of combat, all manner of uses. The thing is it entertains me and my players, otherwise I'd never let something like that fly.
Our current DM houseruled that in the case of a Tempest Cleric using Call Lightning, since the lightning bolt does not originate from the caster, but rather comes down from above, the creatures affected are pushed away from the point of impact, instead of away from the caster (as specified by the Thunderbolt Strike feature of Tempest Clerics). Not at the player's option, but as a matter of course. I think it's a reasonable houserule, not to prone to abuse, although I do think it wasn't necessary (I imagine the lightning bolt, should the cleric choose to use Thunderbolt Strike, would come from a point between the cleric and the impact point, or behind the cleric, or, if that's impossible, would come down in a "curve", as if being attracted by the cleric, but redirected in direction of the impact point, so that the targeted creatures are pushed away from the caster).
Yeah this makes sense. RAW though, the Thunderbolt Strike specifies "you can also push it up to 10 feet away from you." so you are always the source of this pushing effect. I don't think it's game breaking to rule it otherwise though. Might be abusable in very specific situations (like fighting on a bridge or near a canyon for example) but that's pretty much it. I like it flavorwise.
Subclass: Dwarven Defender - Dragonborn Paragon
Feats: Artificer Apprentice
Monsters: Sheep - Spellbreaker Warforged Titan
Magic Items: Whipier - Ring of Secret Storage - Collar of the Guardian
Monster template: Skeletal Creature
Because I was bored...
Anywhere between the yellow circle and the red circle or the yellow circle and green circle is, technically, up to 10’ farther away from or 10’ closer to you. I doubt that’s the correct way to parse “push it up to 10’ away” or ‘pull it up to 10’ closer to you.” However, anywhere between the yellow and red circles or the yellow and green circles AND within the black circle is a place that the target has moved up to 10’ AND is, respectively, further or closer to you. (“Thunderbolt Strike” or “Thorn Whip”) Which I think is the correct interpretation, since other effects (“Repelling Blast”) specify “10’ away from you in a straight line” (the blue line)
Which simplified for playing on a grid is probably 2 squares directly toward you or 1 square diagonally.
A agree with this assessment. And somehow I never noticed the "straight line" part of repelling blast and lightning lure, where thunderbolt strike and thorn whip dont have that restriction.