I'm the DM of a group that's been together for a few years, and today was a day we introduced a new player into our game, which is always a little stressful when dealing with a new person meshing into the existing party dynamic. Everything was going pretty okay, until we encountered an iron golem.
New Player is a goliath totem barbarian, level ten. They have a strength score of 20. I described the golem as standing at about 8 feet tall and 5 feet wide, which I know isn't the standard size of a golem- they're probably taller? The players were tasked with locating a golem power core, and instead of trying to dismantle the iron golem, New Player claimed he had the carrying strength to lift the golem and carry it with them.
Initially this began with me telling them to make an athletics check. They did so, got a 12, and rebutted me by saying if they attempted it over a period of time they could probably do it. I shot this down, thinking that the golem was almost certainly far too heavy for this to be a thing that could happen. They claimed that their lifting capacity as a goliath with a strength score of 20 was around 2400 pounds.
A smaller-than-usual iron golem, in my opinion, probably weighs a bit more than that, but I'm curious as to what other people might think? There was an argument over the feasibility of this that they persisted they could do that was kind of uncomfortable for it being the first session this player was a part of, because I didn't want things to get too tense too quick in the OOC dynamic. Of course, I was debating just the act of lifting it alone; the whole claim that they could just carry it with them through the dungeon they were in seemed way over the top for me. Sure you could deadlift something that's 2400 pounds or so, but... carrying something that's as heavy as a car with you for a while, even as a goliath barbarian, seems like there would have to be a lot of constant athletics / strength saves involved too, against what they said about "as long as you do it over time its fine." It's a roll-based game, isn't it?
I'm the DM of a group that's been together for a few years, and today was a day we introduced a new player into our game, which is always a little stressful when dealing with a new person meshing into the existing party dynamic. Everything was going pretty okay, until we encountered an iron golem.
New Player is a goliath totem barbarian, level ten. They have a strength score of 20. I described the golem as standing at about 8 feet tall and 5 feet wide, which I know isn't the standard size of a golem- they're probably taller? The players were tasked with locating a golem power core, and instead of trying to dismantle the iron golem, New Player claimed he had the carrying strength to lift the golem and carry it with them.
Initially this began with me telling them to make an athletics check. They did so, got a 12, and rebutted me by saying if they attempted it over a period of time they could probably do it. I shot this down, thinking that the golem was almost certainly far too heavy for this to be a thing that could happen. They claimed that their lifting capacity as a goliath with a strength score of 20 was around 2400 pounds.
A smaller-than-usual iron golem, in my opinion, probably weighs a bit more than that, but I'm curious as to what other people might think? There was an argument over the feasibility of this that they persisted they could do that was kind of uncomfortable for it being the first session this player was a part of, because I didn't want things to get too tense too quick in the OOC dynamic. Of course, I was debating just the act of lifting it alone; the whole claim that they could just carry it with them through the dungeon they were in seemed way over the top for me. Sure you could deadlift something that's 2400 pounds or so, but... carrying something that's as heavy as a car with you for a while, even as a goliath barbarian, seems like there would have to be a lot of constant athletics / strength saves involved too, against what they said about "as long as you do it over time its fine." It's a roll-based game, isn't it?
20str x 15lbs =300
goliath double from powerful build = 600 LBs.
his math is way off.
not even accounting for if it’s consensual for the iron golem
They linked me a screenshot of the values that dndbeyond's character sheet had calculated for them, 2400, which really is wildly off from that, yeah. Not sure how dndbeyond got that value. 300 lb base limit, doubled for being a goliath for 600 lb, and doubled again for bear totem to be 1200 lb total.
2400 pounds of iron equates to a solid cube 20 inches on a side, so my question of his abilities would come less from “can he lift 2400 pounds” than from “did he wildly underestimate what the golem (even a small one) would weigh”
1200 is carry capacity (can move at full speed with it). 2400 is lift/push/drag weight (move 5 feet per turn, but can do it).
Math checks out.
Not sure where you're getting that. Carry capacity for most Medium creatures is Strength x 15. For Goliaths, Centaurs, etc. it's Strength x 30. 20 x 30 is 600, not 1200. They would have a carrying capacity of 600 lbs, and a lift/push/drag of 1200.
There’s a big difference between being able to pick up a thing and being able to carry it around. Something as awkward as a golem, with its weight not evenly distributed and there not really being places to get a good grip would would be pretty cumbersome. Like the difference between trying to lift a barbell and a table, They might be the same weight, but one is designed to be picked up, the other is not. I’d imagine the Goliath (maybe with help) could drag it along, but it would slow the party down a lot and make a lot of noise. And lord help them if they need to get it up stairs or around a corner. I mean couches are tough to deal with on moving day, an 8-foot tall solid iron statue would be a nightmare.
If you really don't want them to be able to move it, just say it goes into "lazy cat" mode and is noodled. 2400 lbs lifting capacity wouldn't be enough to move even a regular house cat that has decided to deploy its noodleboi powers.
6th level bear totem doubles that again. Not sure if it stacks though.
D&D Beyond seems to think it stacks. Confirmed by creating one and checking.
It does stack, since it's two different features. Powerful Build says you count as one size larger when determining both your Carrying and your Lift/Drag/Push Capacity. Aspect Of The Bear says those capacities are doubled. So if you have both of those, you have 4x the carry/lift/drag/push capacities of a standard Medium creature with the same Strength score.
Powerful Build is one reason I love playing Goliaths, even when I'm not a Barbarian. Sometimes it's nice to be the guy who can lift really heavy things, even just for RP purposes.
Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don't usually have to worry about it.
Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet.
STR 20 * 15 = 300 Powerful Build = 600 And then if they choose Bear for their 6th level Totem ability, is it +300 or +600 (a lot of the double abilities actually just add your base again)
So their carry cap is either 900 or 1200. With a Push/Drag/Lift of either 1800 or 2400 (reduces speed to 5 feet).
A large adult horse weighs up to 2200 pounds. An iron golem is easily double that. So I would say no, they cannot lift it in either case.
And lord help them if they need to get it up stairs or around a corner. I mean couches are tough to deal with on moving day, an 8-foot tall solid iron statue would be a nightmare.
For reference, my Ford Fiesta has a curb weight of 2500 lbs. There are strongman competitions where they flip larger cars over. I can see a fantasy strongman being able to lift/push a car and stagger along.
I'd say that their carry capacity proves that they could, theoretically, move it around without necessarily needing to roll strength to do so. But they would move at half speed and might need to make the occasional skill roll of some kind to get it through awkward positions in the dungeon. I'd say if he wants to lug that thing around let him, but he's gotta stow all his weapons while carrying it and he'll slow down the party.
And lord help them if they need to get it up stairs or around a corner. I mean couches are tough to deal with on moving day, an 8-foot tall solid iron statue would be a nightmare.
Even if he could push and move it at 5ft per "round" no matter how strong you are, you couldn't sustain that. Sustained strength and Impact strength are so very different. Just watch any of the World Strongest Man competitions, or realty tv shows. They can dead lift that-but they can not remotely move, they don't want to even try because that would destroy them (their words).
So, even if they were able to drag it around.. after lik e min and maybe 100ft they'd probably be exhausted, or at least making checks for it. All the while making very loud noise for anything angry at them to find them-now tired and or possibly makingit fall on them
Yep. I embarssed myself in real life. I can carry lift and or bench quite a lot. but since I'm mostly weight lifting, I don't have long term endurance. Did not realized that. Got qutie tired just from giving someone a piggy back ride for half an hour. Pretty embaressing considering I can push a car around
I'm the DM of a group that's been together for a few years, and today was a day we introduced a new player into our game, which is always a little stressful when dealing with a new person meshing into the existing party dynamic. Everything was going pretty okay, until we encountered an iron golem.
New Player is a goliath totem barbarian, level ten. They have a strength score of 20. I described the golem as standing at about 8 feet tall and 5 feet wide, which I know isn't the standard size of a golem- they're probably taller? The players were tasked with locating a golem power core, and instead of trying to dismantle the iron golem, New Player claimed he had the carrying strength to lift the golem and carry it with them.
Initially this began with me telling them to make an athletics check. They did so, got a 12, and rebutted me by saying if they attempted it over a period of time they could probably do it. I shot this down, thinking that the golem was almost certainly far too heavy for this to be a thing that could happen. They claimed that their lifting capacity as a goliath with a strength score of 20 was around 2400 pounds.
A smaller-than-usual iron golem, in my opinion, probably weighs a bit more than that, but I'm curious as to what other people might think? There was an argument over the feasibility of this that they persisted they could do that was kind of uncomfortable for it being the first session this player was a part of, because I didn't want things to get too tense too quick in the OOC dynamic. Of course, I was debating just the act of lifting it alone; the whole claim that they could just carry it with them through the dungeon they were in seemed way over the top for me. Sure you could deadlift something that's 2400 pounds or so, but... carrying something that's as heavy as a car with you for a while, even as a goliath barbarian, seems like there would have to be a lot of constant athletics / strength saves involved too, against what they said about "as long as you do it over time its fine." It's a roll-based game, isn't it?
20str x 15lbs =300
goliath double from powerful build = 600 LBs.
his math is way off.
not even accounting for if it’s consensual for the iron golem
They linked me a screenshot of the values that dndbeyond's character sheet had calculated for them, 2400, which really is wildly off from that, yeah. Not sure how dndbeyond got that value. 300 lb base limit, doubled for being a goliath for 600 lb, and doubled again for bear totem to be 1200 lb total.
1200 is carry capacity (can move at full speed with it). 2400 is lift/push/drag weight (move 5 feet per turn, but can do it).
Math checks out.
2400 pounds of iron equates to a solid cube 20 inches on a side, so my question of his abilities would come less from “can he lift 2400 pounds” than from “did he wildly underestimate what the golem (even a small one) would weigh”
for record its 4.88 cubic feet of iron.
Not sure where you're getting that. Carry capacity for most Medium creatures is Strength x 15. For Goliaths, Centaurs, etc. it's Strength x 30. 20 x 30 is 600, not 1200. They would have a carrying capacity of 600 lbs, and a lift/push/drag of 1200.
6th level bear totem doubles that again. Not sure if it stacks though.
D&D Beyond seems to think it stacks. Confirmed by creating one and checking.
Ah, I see. Thanks.
There’s a big difference between being able to pick up a thing and being able to carry it around. Something as awkward as a golem, with its weight not evenly distributed and there not really being places to get a good grip would would be pretty cumbersome. Like the difference between trying to lift a barbell and a table, They might be the same weight, but one is designed to be picked up, the other is not. I’d imagine the Goliath (maybe with help) could drag it along, but it would slow the party down a lot and make a lot of noise. And lord help them if they need to get it up stairs or around a corner. I mean couches are tough to deal with on moving day, an 8-foot tall solid iron statue would be a nightmare.
If you really don't want them to be able to move it, just say it goes into "lazy cat" mode and is noodled. 2400 lbs lifting capacity wouldn't be enough to move even a regular house cat that has decided to deploy its noodleboi powers.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It does stack, since it's two different features. Powerful Build says you count as one size larger when determining both your Carrying and your Lift/Drag/Push Capacity. Aspect Of The Bear says those capacities are doubled. So if you have both of those, you have 4x the carry/lift/drag/push capacities of a standard Medium creature with the same Strength score.
Powerful Build is one reason I love playing Goliaths, even when I'm not a Barbarian. Sometimes it's nice to be the guy who can lift really heavy things, even just for RP purposes.
FYI: Relevant rules are here:
Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don't usually have to worry about it.
Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet.
STR 20 * 15 = 300
Powerful Build = 600
And then if they choose Bear for their 6th level Totem ability, is it +300 or +600 (a lot of the double abilities actually just add your base again)
So their carry cap is either 900 or 1200. With a Push/Drag/Lift of either 1800 or 2400 (reduces speed to 5 feet).
A large adult horse weighs up to 2200 pounds. An iron golem is easily double that. So I would say no, they cannot lift it in either case.
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For reference, my Ford Fiesta has a curb weight of 2500 lbs. There are strongman competitions where they flip larger cars over. I can see a fantasy strongman being able to lift/push a car and stagger along.
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I'd say that their carry capacity proves that they could, theoretically, move it around without necessarily needing to roll strength to do so. But they would move at half speed and might need to make the occasional skill roll of some kind to get it through awkward positions in the dungeon. I'd say if he wants to lug that thing around let him, but he's gotta stow all his weapons while carrying it and he'll slow down the party.
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I was thinking exactly that.
Well probably not much of a helpful add but...
Even if he could push and move it at 5ft per "round" no matter how strong you are, you couldn't sustain that. Sustained strength and Impact strength are so very different. Just watch any of the World Strongest Man competitions, or realty tv shows. They can dead lift that-but they can not remotely move, they don't want to even try because that would destroy them (their words).
So, even if they were able to drag it around.. after lik e min and maybe 100ft they'd probably be exhausted, or at least making checks for it.
All the while making very loud noise for anything angry at them to find them-now tired and or possibly makingit fall on them
That's a good point. I think it would be fair to start giving them exhaustion if they kept it up too long.
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Yep. I embarssed myself in real life. I can carry lift and or bench quite a lot.
but since I'm mostly weight lifting, I don't have long term endurance.
Did not realized that. Got qutie tired just from giving someone a piggy back ride for half an hour.
Pretty embaressing considering I can push a car around
Be a good opportunity for an abnormal skill check. Constitution(Athletics) could be fun.