A giant octopus takes up a space of 10×10. If summoned into a 10x10 tunnel by way of "conjure animals" does this affect movement like in previous editions due to "squeezing" through tight spaces? 😊 Asking for a Ranger.
Technically speaking, I would say that the octopus filling that 10'x10' space would block enemy creatures and be considered difficult terrain for allied creatures.
Ah, I was totally reading the question in a different light... So, if you have a giant octopus (i.e., a large beast) summoned into a 10'x10' tunnel, then it's movement/speed should be unaffected by the size of the area. The tunnel is large enough for the giant octopus to fit without having to worry about squeezing through spaces.
Having said that, unless the tunnel is flooding, the giant octopus only has a land movement of 10 ft., so it won't be moving very far or very fast. If it enters a smaller area such as a 5' wide tunnel, then it would have to squeeze which would cost it extra movement.
It's worth remembering that a creature doesn't fill up the space that it's in - it occupies it. I think the only exception could be the Gelatinous Cube - which really does do both.
I believe these are the rules you are looking for:
Squeezing into a Smaller Space
A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.
The large creature would be squeezed if it went into a 5×5 space.
It's also worth remembering that the player does not choose the exact animal summoned by Conjure Animals, the GM does. When I'm managing such situations I will take into account the wishes of the player, but also the location of the summoning. I wouldn't have a warhorse appear underwater, a herd of cattle appear in mid air, or an octopus in a desert.
So yes, in a tunnel situation I would tend to have smaller creature(s) appear, or something that can burrow or otherwise navigate the environment comfortably. That being said, I would probably exempt an octopus from all negative effects of squeezing, since they are notoriously good at squeezing places, so I would very much allow one to be summoned into a moist tunnel situation.
Who picks what creature is summoned and how fast it can walk is irrelevant to the actual question that has been asked.
1. Yes the octopus will fit in the space
2. The octopus prevents an enemy passing through the space and acts as difficult terrain to friendly creatures that want to pass through.
That is the RAW answer to the actual question. No further 'debate' is required. I swear people only come on here to start fights because they are bored!
Who picks what creature is summoned and how fast it can walk is irrelevant to the actual question that has been asked.
1. Yes the octopus will fit in the space
2. The octopus prevents an enemy passing through the space and acts as difficult terrain to friendly creatures that want to pass through.
That is the RAW answer to the actual question. No further 'debate' is required. I swear people only come on here to start fights because they are bored!
My comment was neither debate nor fight. It started with "It's also worth remembering..." which is openly admitting that it is not directly relevant to the original question. It was discussion. People come here to discuss.
The RAW of the original question was answered early. The wider discussion has expanded to cover under what circumstances a large creature would be squeezing, what the effects of that squeeze would be, and in my comment, how or if such a creature would ever find itself in such a situation when the spell mentioned in the original post is cast. That is how discussion on these forums goes.
You're right, in the other forums. But this is the RAW forum for people who want RAW answers to specific questions.General discussions go in the... wait for it... General Discussion forum.
It doesn't say the DM chooses the beast summoned. The text reads "You summon" and "Choose" However, my question was answered and I appreciate it. Thank you!
EDIT: I now see Sage Advice says player pick the CR and DM chooses beast. 👍
It's also worth remembering that the player does not choose the exact animal summoned by Conjure Animals, the GM does. When I'm managing such situations I will take into account the wishes of the player, but also the location of the summoning. I wouldn't have a warhorse appear underwater, a herd of cattle appear in mid air, or an octopus in a desert.
Yes, thanks for the "cows in midair" reminder. :)
So yes, in a tunnel situation I would tend to have smaller creature(s) appear, or something that can burrow or otherwise navigate the environment comfortably. That being said, I would probably exempt an octopus from all negative effects of squeezing, since they are notoriously good at squeezing places, so I would very much allow one to be summoned into a moist tunnel situation.
And this is an area in which, again, a DM's interpretation is really important, even a large octopus should not be squeezed in a tight tunnel, unless of course the tunnel is smaller than its eyeball, which I believe is the limiting factor for that kind of beast. :)
The rule-of-thumb I'd heard for Octopi to fit through an opening is that they have to be able to fit their beak through, since that's basically the only hard part of their body. Although with most species of Octopus I believe the eyes are generally smaller than the beak, so I don't know how limiting of a factor eyes are in movement if they happen to be huge...
Sorry, another non-RAW comment in this thread, but I feel the actual question has been answered pretty satisfactorily by now and I just happen to have a decent amount of not-particularly-useful octopus trivia rattling around in my brain.
You're right, in the other forums. But this is the RAW forum for people who want RAW answers to specific questions.General discussions go in the... wait for it... General Discussion forum.
This is not the RAW Forum, this is the forum for Discussion of Rules and Game Mechanics. RAW is generally of most significance here - as opposed to RAI and definitely homebrew or house rules - but this forum is absolutely not exclusively a place to get a narrow RAW ruling to a specific question.
The rules/mechanics of how Conjure Animals work are very widely misunderstood, indeed even in comments in this very thread. So I took the opportunity to contribute to this discussion to remind people that even though a giant octopus can fit in this tunnel and will block movement as was answered, doesn't mean that you can now use that information tactically to summon the octopus at will.
This is not a general discussion. It is a discussion of the rules and game mechanics that relate to octopuses, tunnels and summoning.
The whole octopus squeezing discussion, while true IRL, is not RAW. So it can't in D&D.
Not sure how many DMs would actually play an octopus as incapable of squeezing through small spaces , but you are technically correct by RAW. The giant octopus is a Large beast that lacks any traits that would allow it to squeeze through smaller spaces without incurring the standard penalties or being outright unable to do so (such as having the amorphous trait). So a Large creature (10' x 10') could squeeze through a narrower 5' wide tunnel, but it would cost it extra movement. It would potentially not be able to squeeze through narrower tunnels because of its Large size preventing it from "fitting" thought them.
The whole octopus squeezing discussion, while true IRL, is not RAW. So it can't in D&D.
Not sure how many DMs would actually play an octopus as incapable of squeezing through small spaces , but you are technically correct by RAW. The giant octopus is a Large beast that lacks any traits that would allow it to squeeze through smaller spaces without incurring the standard penalties or being outright unable to do so (such as having the amorphous trait). So a Large creature (10' x 10') could squeeze through a narrower 5' wide tunnel, but it would cost it extra movement. It would potentially not be able to squeeze through narrower tunnels because of its Large size preventing it from "fitting" thought them.
All D&D is saying is that the giant octopus has a ~5' wide beak that prevents it from squeezing into spaces smaller than 5' :)
(at least that is one interpretation that makes giant octopi and RAW on squeezing consistent :) ).
A giant octopus takes up a space of 10×10. If summoned into a 10x10 tunnel by way of "conjure animals" does this affect movement like in previous editions due to "squeezing" through tight spaces? 😊 Asking for a Ranger.
Technically speaking, I would say that the octopus filling that 10'x10' space would block enemy creatures and be considered difficult terrain for allied creatures.
True, just wondered about its movement and speed. That's the question I asked but I can see how my wording was off. thank you for chiming in. 👍❤
Ah, I was totally reading the question in a different light... So, if you have a giant octopus (i.e., a large beast) summoned into a 10'x10' tunnel, then it's movement/speed should be unaffected by the size of the area. The tunnel is large enough for the giant octopus to fit without having to worry about squeezing through spaces.
Having said that, unless the tunnel is flooding, the giant octopus only has a land movement of 10 ft., so it won't be moving very far or very fast. If it enters a smaller area such as a 5' wide tunnel, then it would have to squeeze which would cost it extra movement.
Cool, was curious about that. Thank you! 🤗
It's worth remembering that a creature doesn't fill up the space that it's in - it occupies it. I think the only exception could be the Gelatinous Cube - which really does do both.
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I believe these are the rules you are looking for:
The large creature would be squeezed if it went into a 5×5 space.
It's also worth remembering that the player does not choose the exact animal summoned by Conjure Animals, the GM does. When I'm managing such situations I will take into account the wishes of the player, but also the location of the summoning. I wouldn't have a warhorse appear underwater, a herd of cattle appear in mid air, or an octopus in a desert.
So yes, in a tunnel situation I would tend to have smaller creature(s) appear, or something that can burrow or otherwise navigate the environment comfortably. That being said, I would probably exempt an octopus from all negative effects of squeezing, since they are notoriously good at squeezing places, so I would very much allow one to be summoned into a moist tunnel situation.
Who picks what creature is summoned and how fast it can walk is irrelevant to the actual question that has been asked.
1. Yes the octopus will fit in the space
2. The octopus prevents an enemy passing through the space and acts as difficult terrain to friendly creatures that want to pass through.
That is the RAW answer to the actual question. No further 'debate' is required. I swear people only come on here to start fights because they are bored!
My comment was neither debate nor fight. It started with "It's also worth remembering..." which is openly admitting that it is not directly relevant to the original question. It was discussion. People come here to discuss.
The RAW of the original question was answered early. The wider discussion has expanded to cover under what circumstances a large creature would be squeezing, what the effects of that squeeze would be, and in my comment, how or if such a creature would ever find itself in such a situation when the spell mentioned in the original post is cast. That is how discussion on these forums goes.
You're right, in the other forums. But this is the RAW forum for people who want RAW answers to specific questions.General discussions go in the... wait for it... General Discussion forum.
It doesn't say the DM chooses the beast summoned. The text reads "You summon" and "Choose" However, my question was answered and I appreciate it. Thank you!
EDIT: I now see Sage Advice says player pick the CR and DM chooses beast. 👍
The rule-of-thumb I'd heard for Octopi to fit through an opening is that they have to be able to fit their beak through, since that's basically the only hard part of their body. Although with most species of Octopus I believe the eyes are generally smaller than the beak, so I don't know how limiting of a factor eyes are in movement if they happen to be huge...
Sorry, another non-RAW comment in this thread, but I feel the actual question has been answered pretty satisfactorily by now and I just happen to have a decent amount of not-particularly-useful octopus trivia rattling around in my brain.
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The whole octopus squeezing discussion, while true IRL, is not RAW. So it can't in D&D.
This is not the RAW Forum, this is the forum for Discussion of Rules and Game Mechanics. RAW is generally of most significance here - as opposed to RAI and definitely homebrew or house rules - but this forum is absolutely not exclusively a place to get a narrow RAW ruling to a specific question.
The rules/mechanics of how Conjure Animals work are very widely misunderstood, indeed even in comments in this very thread. So I took the opportunity to contribute to this discussion to remind people that even though a giant octopus can fit in this tunnel and will block movement as was answered, doesn't mean that you can now use that information tactically to summon the octopus at will.
This is not a general discussion. It is a discussion of the rules and game mechanics that relate to octopuses, tunnels and summoning.
Not sure how many DMs would actually play an octopus as incapable of squeezing through small spaces , but you are technically correct by RAW. The giant octopus is a Large beast that lacks any traits that would allow it to squeeze through smaller spaces without incurring the standard penalties or being outright unable to do so (such as having the amorphous trait). So a Large creature (10' x 10') could squeeze through a narrower 5' wide tunnel, but it would cost it extra movement. It would potentially not be able to squeeze through narrower tunnels because of its Large size preventing it from "fitting" thought them.
A complete RAW discussion includes finding areas where the RAW is unsatisfactory or falls short for a given situation.
For example, the fact that an octopus should have something like the Amorphous trait.
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All D&D is saying is that the giant octopus has a ~5' wide beak that prevents it from squeezing into spaces smaller than 5' :)
(at least that is one interpretation that makes giant octopi and RAW on squeezing consistent :) ).