It is a given that if the DM doesn't want you to be something, you won't be. Not even if you have a degree in contract law and a perfect understanding of the D&D Rules. Judging from Jeremy Crawford's tweets, *he* doesn't know the rules. Mike Merels might not either. Those are the two lead designers. It's a 50-50 or worse for them and they *wrote* the rules.
So how do you word a Wish? You don't. If the DM wants you to be a Gold Dragon, they probably won't bother making you use a Wish. Poof.
I agree with Sutlo pretty much. Or don't bother to cast the spell. Talk to the DM out of game and say the only real Magic Word. "Please".
As already said, have a chat to your DM first to see if they would be happy with the request and secondly if they would allow you to continue playing the character afterwards. In many instances of this, I would imagine that becoming a full dragon would often result in your character being retired and becoming an NPC.
If the DM is happy to go with the idea, then make sure you specify the age of the Gold Dragon... I would probably go down the lines of something like this: "I wish to use True Polymorph to transform me into an Adult Gold Dragon" (swapping 'Adult' for 'Young' or 'Ancient' if needed)
As a DM I wouldn't twist this wish if in this form. (Some DMs might) I'd allow for a player to maybe become a young gold dragon at the cost of loss of some higher level spells and spell slots. Maybe it's because I've prepared for "I want to turn into this" though. Honestly, I think if you want to become a dragon and are indeed at 17th level, I think a balanced arrangement can be found by just talking out of game with your DM. I doubt any reasonable DM would allow for an adult or ancient due to it having legendary actions, and well, it's stats being crazy busted.
If you shove the wish onto your DM before talking to him/her, they are much more likely to twist it.
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic byVitaly S Alexius
Simply put, it doesn't matter how you phrase the Wish. What matters is why you want to do this, and how your DM feels about it.
If you're clearly trying to metagame and exploit the vagueness this spell, then tough luck. BUT, if you role-play it well, use it in an appropriate situation, and you have a nice DM, then you might have a chance of pulling it off.
I would count it the same as a True Polymorph that has already passed the 1 Hour mark. Obviously it's better to just cast True Polymorph and wait an hour (since you can permanently lose Wish), but who knows... maybe you only have Wish and not True Polymorph for whatever reason.
The problem with the True Polymorph spell of is that the effects can be dispelled. Even when the duration becomes "permanent" it can still be ended with a Dispel Magic. If you drop to zero hit points, same thing. You stop being a Dragon. You give up a lot when made into a Dragon too. No more magic items unless the DM lets you. "The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment."
If you take your gear off first, and then turn into a Dragon, there is much debate about what you could use. Weapons would be fine, but would be very small in a huge Dragon's hands. Weapons could easily slip out of their grasp. A Young Gold Dragon has a strength of 23. Dragons go up from there. Armor is pretty much impossible. Shields have the same problem as weapons do. How do you use a shield without breaking it? There are magic items you can use, like Ioun Stones. Most you have to wear or wield.
It matters little. It's somewhat like painting a Gold Dragon in gold paint. Dragons are immensely powerful on their own.
I can imagine a Dragonborn Sorcerer with the Draconic Bloodline origin turning into a Dragon. This would literally grant their Wish. From level 17 on they could have great fun. I wouldn't mess with the player over the wording for that.
Talk to your DM. Ask them if they would be willing to let you do it. If they are caught unprepared, then they will be much more inclined to turn you into a gold statue of a dragon.
- You become a gold coin (gold coins are called "Dragons" in Waterdeep). - You become an unborn and vulnerable gold dragon inside an egg. - You become a real gold dragon but retain your current age (so probably a young (or adult, if you're an elf) gold dragon, which will probably be less powerful than your old form). - Your race changes to Gold Dragonborn, Drake, Dragonkin, etc.
Those are all possibilities, depending on your DM and the situation you're in. You might be safer with True Polymorph instead, being able to just recast it if it ever gets dispelled. Sure it could also go well if you carefully word it, but since Wish has somewhat of a preference for replicating other spells for its effects, you might just get a True Polymorph cast on yourself as a result of the Wish.
For those saying, "it doesn't matter because your DM will find a way to screw you over if they want":
If someone threw out a Wish like this with no thought or effort, then yeah I'd probably screw them over to a degree because they are ignoring the perils of the spell.
Alternately, if someone were acting like OP here where they were paranoid of negative consequences and so spent some time crafting a very carefully-worded Wish, I'd reward that care, that attention to the way the spell is supposed to work.
The DM is a person. Their judgements can be influenced by a lot of things, and one way to tip things in your favor is to just play the game. It's like the difference between walking up to a guard and immediately rolling Persuasion to get through vs. observing him, maybe chatting him up a bit and finding the right angle to work on him. The first situation is going to be a high DC and might leave the guard uneasy or suspicious even if you succeed. The second might not even be a roll at all if it's played right. Certainly the DC would be lowered. Play the game, respect the game world, and things will tend to go better for you.
In that spirit, I'd make the following specifications:
the actual golden dragon creature, hopefully you can reference an in-world example
your preferred age (young adult, in its prime, etc)
you retain your memories and personality
in good health
the duration of the change
and probably more... keep thinking. It's part of the fun!
For those saying, "it doesn't matter because your DM will find a way to screw you over if they want":
If someone threw out a Wish like this with no thought or effort, then yeah I'd probably screw them over to a degree because they are ignoring the perils of the spell.
Alternately, if someone were acting like OP here where they were paranoid of negative consequences and so spent some time crafting a very carefully-worded Wish, I'd reward that care, that attention to the way the spell is supposed to work.
The DM is a person. Their judgements can be influenced by a lot of things, and one way to tip things in your favor is to just play the game. It's like the difference between walking up to a guard and immediately rolling Persuasion to get through vs. observing him, maybe chatting him up a bit and finding the right angle to work on him. The first situation is going to be a high DC and might leave the guard uneasy or suspicious even if you succeed. The second might not even be a roll at all if it's played right. Certainly the DC would be lowered. Play the game, respect the game world, and things will tend to go better for you.
In that spirit, I'd make the following specifications:
the actual golden dragon creature, hopefully you can reference an in-world example
your preferred age (young adult, in its prime, etc)
you retain your memories and personality
in good health
the duration of the change
and probably more... keep thinking. It's part of the fun!
really nice.
i would like to add that it transforms you into a creature identical to those things rather than actually into a gold dragon
and you automatically learn how to controll the body
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic byVitaly S Alexius
- You become a gold coin (gold coins are called "Dragons" in Waterdeep). - You become an unborn and vulnerable gold dragon inside an egg. - You become a real gold dragon but retain your current age (so probably a young (or adult, if you're an elf) gold dragon, which will probably be less powerful than your old form). - Your race changes to Gold Dragonborn, Drake, Dragonkin, etc.
Those are all possibilities, depending on your DM and the situation you're in. You might be safer with True Polymorph instead, being able to just recast it if it ever gets dispelled. Sure it could also go well if you carefully word it, but since Wish has somewhat of a preference for replicating other spells for its effects, you might just get a True Polymorph cast on yourself as a result of the Wish.
i would totally turn them into a ancient gold dragon. healthy. same personality. same memories.
but you dont know how to use the body (like a baby learning to walk but gargantuan and accidentally spitting fire)
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic byVitaly S Alexius
Bear in mind that the DM does not have to parse your wish and find a way to screw you over. There are three defined ways a wish exceeding the basic limits of wish can go wrong:
This spell might simply fail
the effect you desire might only be partly achieved
you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish
Careful wording can help with (3), but is completely useless for (1) and (2).
personally as a dm every time you use it other than to cast an 8th level or lower spell im looking to find a loophole.
if you use it as intended (casting 8th or below spell) it will work
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic byVitaly S Alexius
A surprising amount of people in this thread just want to make the PC completely waste their wish, or even instant-kill them for daring to cast it. What’s the point of taking wish then, if nothing interesting you want to do works? There’s another spell of the same level that lets you turn into an Adult Gold Dragon or even an Ancient White Dragon near-permanently, with the option of reverting back to your normal 17+ level caster form if you don’t feel like being one forever. What’s the big deal with them permanently becoming a Young Gold Dragon for the rest of the campaign?
im just trying to find out if i can do this but i wanna word it right you know. any help would be awesome.
"I wish I were a golden dragon."
Seems pretty straight forward to me. If your DM want's to screw you over they will, you won't find a wording that doesn't allow that.
It is a given that if the DM doesn't want you to be something, you won't be. Not even if you have a degree in contract law and a perfect understanding of the D&D Rules. Judging from Jeremy Crawford's tweets, *he* doesn't know the rules. Mike Merels might not either. Those are the two lead designers. It's a 50-50 or worse for them and they *wrote* the rules.
So how do you word a Wish? You don't. If the DM wants you to be a Gold Dragon, they probably won't bother making you use a Wish. Poof.
I agree with Sutlo pretty much. Or don't bother to cast the spell. Talk to the DM out of game and say the only real Magic Word. "Please".
<Insert clever signature here>
As already said, have a chat to your DM first to see if they would be happy with the request and secondly if they would allow you to continue playing the character afterwards. In many instances of this, I would imagine that becoming a full dragon would often result in your character being retired and becoming an NPC.
If the DM is happy to go with the idea, then make sure you specify the age of the Gold Dragon... I would probably go down the lines of something like this: "I wish to use True Polymorph to transform me into an Adult Gold Dragon" (swapping 'Adult' for 'Young' or 'Ancient' if needed)
As a DM I wouldn't twist this wish if in this form. (Some DMs might) I'd allow for a player to maybe become a young gold dragon at the cost of loss of some higher level spells and spell slots. Maybe it's because I've prepared for "I want to turn into this" though. Honestly, I think if you want to become a dragon and are indeed at 17th level, I think a balanced arrangement can be found by just talking out of game with your DM. I doubt any reasonable DM would allow for an adult or ancient due to it having legendary actions, and well, it's stats being crazy busted.
If you shove the wish onto your DM before talking to him/her, they are much more likely to twist it.
you dont.
cast true polymorph.
if your dm allows shenanigans do this
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic by Vitaly S Alexius
You’d run the risk of no longer being a pc, if I were DMing. Sure, that character can be a gold dragon, but now it’s no longer a character.
And be careful there’s not some organization in the world called “the gold dragons” you might just find yourself a member.
Simply put, it doesn't matter how you phrase the Wish. What matters is why you want to do this, and how your DM feels about it.
If you're clearly trying to metagame and exploit the vagueness this spell, then tough luck. BUT, if you role-play it well, use it in an appropriate situation, and you have a nice DM, then you might have a chance of pulling it off.
I would count it the same as a True Polymorph that has already passed the 1 Hour mark. Obviously it's better to just cast True Polymorph and wait an hour (since you can permanently lose Wish), but who knows... maybe you only have Wish and not True Polymorph for whatever reason.
The problem with the True Polymorph spell of is that the effects can be dispelled. Even when the duration becomes "permanent" it can still be ended with a Dispel Magic. If you drop to zero hit points, same thing. You stop being a Dragon. You give up a lot when made into a Dragon too. No more magic items unless the DM lets you. "The target’s gear melds into the new form. The creature can’t activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment."
If you take your gear off first, and then turn into a Dragon, there is much debate about what you could use. Weapons would be fine, but would be very small in a huge Dragon's hands. Weapons could easily slip out of their grasp. A Young Gold Dragon has a strength of 23. Dragons go up from there. Armor is pretty much impossible. Shields have the same problem as weapons do. How do you use a shield without breaking it? There are magic items you can use, like Ioun Stones. Most you have to wear or wield.
It matters little. It's somewhat like painting a Gold Dragon in gold paint. Dragons are immensely powerful on their own.
I can imagine a Dragonborn Sorcerer with the Draconic Bloodline origin turning into a Dragon. This would literally grant their Wish. From level 17 on they could have great fun. I wouldn't mess with the player over the wording for that.
<Insert clever signature here>
"I wish to become a gold dragon"
<DM: okay, you turn into a dragon made of gold. Sadly, gold is inanimate.>
Talk to your DM. Ask them if they would be willing to let you do it. If they are caught unprepared, then they will be much more inclined to turn you into a gold statue of a dragon.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
- You become a gold coin (gold coins are called "Dragons" in Waterdeep).
- You become an unborn and vulnerable gold dragon inside an egg.
- You become a real gold dragon but retain your current age (so probably a young (or adult, if you're an elf) gold dragon, which will probably be less powerful than your old form).
- Your race changes to Gold Dragonborn, Drake, Dragonkin, etc.
Those are all possibilities, depending on your DM and the situation you're in. You might be safer with True Polymorph instead, being able to just recast it if it ever gets dispelled. Sure it could also go well if you carefully word it, but since Wish has somewhat of a preference for replicating other spells for its effects, you might just get a True Polymorph cast on yourself as a result of the Wish.
Art Portfolio
For those saying, "it doesn't matter because your DM will find a way to screw you over if they want":
If someone threw out a Wish like this with no thought or effort, then yeah I'd probably screw them over to a degree because they are ignoring the perils of the spell.
Alternately, if someone were acting like OP here where they were paranoid of negative consequences and so spent some time crafting a very carefully-worded Wish, I'd reward that care, that attention to the way the spell is supposed to work.
The DM is a person. Their judgements can be influenced by a lot of things, and one way to tip things in your favor is to just play the game. It's like the difference between walking up to a guard and immediately rolling Persuasion to get through vs. observing him, maybe chatting him up a bit and finding the right angle to work on him. The first situation is going to be a high DC and might leave the guard uneasy or suspicious even if you succeed. The second might not even be a roll at all if it's played right. Certainly the DC would be lowered. Play the game, respect the game world, and things will tend to go better for you.
In that spirit, I'd make the following specifications:
and probably more... keep thinking. It's part of the fun!
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
really nice.
i would like to add that it transforms you into a creature identical to those things rather than actually into a gold dragon
and you automatically learn how to controll the body
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic by Vitaly S Alexius
i would totally turn them into a ancient gold dragon. healthy. same personality. same memories.
but you dont know how to use the body (like a baby learning to walk but gargantuan and accidentally spitting fire)
and after a minute you revert
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic by Vitaly S Alexius
Bear in mind that the DM does not have to parse your wish and find a way to screw you over. There are three defined ways a wish exceeding the basic limits of wish can go wrong:
Careful wording can help with (3), but is completely useless for (1) and (2).
personally as a dm every time you use it other than to cast an 8th level or lower spell im looking to find a loophole.
if you use it as intended (casting 8th or below spell) it will work
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic by Vitaly S Alexius
I would begin a partial transformation, probably. They would gradually gain features, and eventually wake up a dragon. Probably adult level.
A surprising amount of people in this thread just want to make the PC completely waste their wish, or even instant-kill them for daring to cast it. What’s the point of taking wish then, if nothing interesting you want to do works? There’s another spell of the same level that lets you turn into an Adult Gold Dragon or even an Ancient White Dragon near-permanently, with the option of reverting back to your normal 17+ level caster form if you don’t feel like being one forever. What’s the big deal with them permanently becoming a Young Gold Dragon for the rest of the campaign?