Just some fun, slightly silly build theorycrafting here, thinking about how to take an enemy infront of you and send them flying for miles without teleporting them or moving your own position. The obvious option is eldritch blast + repelling blast with an action surge & quickened spell, but wanted to see if it can be done better. Came up with something like:
6 levels of Tempest Cleric for Thunderbolt Strike (10ft knockback per lightning attack) 4 levels of sorcerer for 4 sorcery points, quickened spell & transmuted spell 2 levels of fighter for action surge 2 levels of Warlock for Eldritch blast, Repelling Blast, Eldritch Spear Warcaster Feat A Feat for Dissonant Whispers, either Magic Initiate (Bard) or Fey Touched
The strategy (Note, this is obviously an ideal case, just to see what's possible):
Step 1: Walk up within 5ft of enemy Step 2: Cast Dissonant Whispers - Enemy fails and runs it's movement speed away Step 3: Use Warcaster to cast Scorching Ray as they run (At disadvantage for the first beam to hit). Change it to lightning damage with transmuted spell. Each hit will cause 10ft knockback. Casting at 5th level = 6 potential hits, up to 60ft knockback Step 4: Once they finish moving, action surge & hit them with another 5th level lightning scorching ray (ie up to 60ft more knockback). At this point the range of scorching ray is probably the limiting factor, pushing them to a max of 130ft from you Step 5: Hit them with 3 bolts from a quickened Eldritch Blast, for a potential additional 30ft of knockback.
That ends up with a max flee + knockback distance of up to about 160ft? Enough to annoy the longbowman in your party that they're now considered disadvantage to hit. Even in a more realistic situation where only half the bolts & rays hit, and with an enemy with 30ft movement, works out to 100/110ft. Add 10ft to these if you reach 17th level & gain an extra eldritch blast bolt.
Can it be done better? (No teleporting, banishment or plane shifting allowed!)
Edit: Without adding more class levels, if you do Variant Human + Spell Sniper, you can double the range on scorching ray. Should put up the max knockback distance to 60ft x2, +30ft, +creature's movement speed, up to 180ft for a standard 30ft humanoid.
Edit 2: Suppose I should say, if you do bring this up to 20th level (either add sorc or cleric) you'll have a 7th & 8th level spell slot. That's 17 rays & 4 blasts, total of 210ft max knockback + their move speed.
Can it be done better? (No teleporting, banishment or plane shifting allowed!)
Yes. For one thing, you didn't specify a Warlock subclass. With Genie, you can apply Crusher to Eldritch Blast (or Scorching Ray). For another, Storm Sorcerer 6/Tempest Cleric 6 is better for your Scorching Ray plan - as soon as you begin casting Scorching Ray, you get a free 10-foot push so your rays aren't at disadvantage, then a full set of rays. If you don't take Storm Sorcerer, you can get Dissonant Whispers from Aberrant Mind Sorcerer.
Can it be done better? (No teleporting, banishment or plane shifting allowed!)
Yes. For one thing, you didn't specify a Warlock subclass. With Genie, you can apply Crusher to Eldritch Blast (or Scorching Ray). For another, Storm Sorcerer 6/Tempest Cleric 6 is better for your Scorching Ray plan - as soon as you begin casting Scorching Ray, you get a free 10-foot push so your rays aren't at disadvantage, then a full set of rays. If you don't take Storm Sorcerer, you can get Dissonant Whispers from Aberrant Mind Sorcerer.
Good catch! So that adds +15ft, for a max of 225ft + their move speed.
Should say, tbf this creature is taking 34d6 lightning, 4d10 force, at least 3d6 psychic, 6 bludgeoning & half your sorc level in additional lightning, under these ideal conditions. That's in excess of about 160hp on average, and this will only work on Large or smaller creatures, so they better be pretty tanky.
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
It's never made explicit how this is supposed to work when you try to cast the bonus action spell after the full action spell, but it's generally recognized that casting a full-action leveled spell prevents you from then casting a bonus action spell. Other than that, this works pretty well. I'm not sure I can do better.
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
It's never made explicit how this is supposed to work when you try to cast the bonus action spell after the full action spell, but it's generally recognized that casting a full-action leveled spell prevents you from then casting a bonus action spell. Other than that, this works pretty well. I'm not sure I can do better.
This is correct. And of course, considering the amount of spells being cast you would have to do this over multiple turns which would probably change things quite a bit.
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
It's never made explicit how this is supposed to work when you try to cast the bonus action spell after the full action spell, but it's generally recognized that casting a full-action leveled spell prevents you from then casting a bonus action spell. Other than that, this works pretty well. I'm not sure I can do better.
This is correct. And of course, considering the amount of spells being cast you would have to do this over multiple turns which would probably change things quite a bit.
As long as you have the actions for it and you don't cast a bonus action spell, you can cast as many spells as you want. Here they are using a full action, reaction, and an action-surge action which is a legit way to cast 3 leveled spells in one turn. The only problem was then trying to cast a quickened eldritch blast as a bonus action.
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
It's never made explicit how this is supposed to work when you try to cast the bonus action spell after the full action spell, but it's generally recognized that casting a full-action leveled spell prevents you from then casting a bonus action spell. Other than that, this works pretty well. I'm not sure I can do better.
Ah good catch, I made the mistake of thinking the BA casting rules worked both ways (action spell + BA cantrip, or action cantrip + BA spell). But you're right, only the latter works, and you can't quicken a cantrip after a levelled spell.
I guess in that case to be optimal you'd switch one level of genie warlock to either sorc or cleric, giving you a 9th level spell slot, going from 17 scorching rays to 19 (8th + 9th lvl slot).
You're losing 40ft from the removal of EB, but gaining 20ft from the additional rays. I think that puts us at 205ft + enemies move speed?
Infact without Eldritch blast, even with an enemy with a very high move speed, this is gonna max out at 250ft regardless unless you move further towards the enemy, since by the time you're on your last few scorching rays they'll be at your max range (240ft with spell sniper).
step 2: have the crossbow master feet (takes away disadvantage for ranged attacks at short range)
step 3: get underneath them and start blasting
send them 200ft in the air and make them take the fall damage
why scorching ray over magic missile? I know Scorching Ray probably does more damage but Magic Missle has more attacks to knock them back further right?
Considering this is not a one turn contest, add the geyser function of the Decanter of Endless Water to send them 15ft back? Not sure if it works but...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at it! Beauty! A spoiler!
Look what you've done, spoiling it for you and everyone who can see this screen. You're a disgrace, you know that, right? You have nothing to be ashamed of but yourself, you moster!
But to be completely fair, every monster has a cute side, like have you seen people draw goblins? Goblins look so cool! You're fine, you may seem like a monster, but I bet you're cute on the inside!
Hope I've made your day!
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Just some fun, slightly silly build theorycrafting here, thinking about how to take an enemy infront of you and send them flying for miles without teleporting them or moving your own position. The obvious option is eldritch blast + repelling blast with an action surge & quickened spell, but wanted to see if it can be done better. Came up with something like:
6 levels of Tempest Cleric for Thunderbolt Strike (10ft knockback per lightning attack)
4 levels of sorcerer for 4 sorcery points, quickened spell & transmuted spell
2 levels of fighter for action surge
2 levels of Warlock for Eldritch blast, Repelling Blast, Eldritch Spear
Warcaster Feat
A Feat for Dissonant Whispers, either Magic Initiate (Bard) or Fey Touched
The strategy (Note, this is obviously an ideal case, just to see what's possible):
Step 1: Walk up within 5ft of enemy
Step 2: Cast Dissonant Whispers - Enemy fails and runs it's movement speed away
Step 3: Use Warcaster to cast Scorching Ray as they run (At disadvantage for the first beam to hit). Change it to lightning damage with transmuted spell. Each hit will cause 10ft knockback. Casting at 5th level = 6 potential hits, up to 60ft knockback
Step 4: Once they finish moving, action surge & hit them with another 5th level lightning scorching ray (ie up to 60ft more knockback). At this point the range of scorching ray is probably the limiting factor, pushing them to a max of 130ft from you
Step 5: Hit them with 3 bolts from a quickened Eldritch Blast, for a potential additional 30ft of knockback.
That ends up with a max flee + knockback distance of up to about 160ft? Enough to annoy the longbowman in your party that they're now considered disadvantage to hit. Even in a more realistic situation where only half the bolts & rays hit, and with an enemy with 30ft movement, works out to 100/110ft. Add 10ft to these if you reach 17th level & gain an extra eldritch blast bolt.
Can it be done better? (No teleporting, banishment or plane shifting allowed!)
Edit: Without adding more class levels, if you do Variant Human + Spell Sniper, you can double the range on scorching ray. Should put up the max knockback distance to 60ft x2, +30ft, +creature's movement speed, up to 180ft for a standard 30ft humanoid.
Edit 2: Suppose I should say, if you do bring this up to 20th level (either add sorc or cleric) you'll have a 7th & 8th level spell slot. That's 17 rays & 4 blasts, total of 210ft max knockback + their move speed.
Yes. For one thing, you didn't specify a Warlock subclass. With Genie, you can apply Crusher to Eldritch Blast (or Scorching Ray). For another, Storm Sorcerer 6/Tempest Cleric 6 is better for your Scorching Ray plan - as soon as you begin casting Scorching Ray, you get a free 10-foot push so your rays aren't at disadvantage, then a full set of rays. If you don't take Storm Sorcerer, you can get Dissonant Whispers from Aberrant Mind Sorcerer.
Good catch! So that adds +15ft, for a max of 225ft + their move speed.
Should say, tbf this creature is taking 34d6 lightning, 4d10 force, at least 3d6 psychic, 6 bludgeoning & half your sorc level in additional lightning, under these ideal conditions. That's in excess of about 160hp on average, and this will only work on Large or smaller creatures, so they better be pretty tanky.
I don't think this works exactly.
It's never made explicit how this is supposed to work when you try to cast the bonus action spell after the full action spell, but it's generally recognized that casting a full-action leveled spell prevents you from then casting a bonus action spell. Other than that, this works pretty well. I'm not sure I can do better.
This is correct. And of course, considering the amount of spells being cast you would have to do this over multiple turns which would probably change things quite a bit.
As long as you have the actions for it and you don't cast a bonus action spell, you can cast as many spells as you want. Here they are using a full action, reaction, and an action-surge action which is a legit way to cast 3 leveled spells in one turn. The only problem was then trying to cast a quickened eldritch blast as a bonus action.
My My wow
[roll]7d6[/roll]
Every post these dice roll increasing my chances of winning the yahtzee thread (I wish (wait not the twist the wish threa-!))
Drummer Generated Title
After having been invited to include both here, I now combine the "PM me CHEESE 🧀 and tomato into PM me "PIZZA🍕"
Ah good catch, I made the mistake of thinking the BA casting rules worked both ways (action spell + BA cantrip, or action cantrip + BA spell). But you're right, only the latter works, and you can't quicken a cantrip after a levelled spell.
I guess in that case to be optimal you'd switch one level of genie warlock to either sorc or cleric, giving you a 9th level spell slot, going from 17 scorching rays to 19 (8th + 9th lvl slot).
You're losing 40ft from the removal of EB, but gaining 20ft from the additional rays. I think that puts us at 205ft + enemies move speed?
Infact without Eldritch blast, even with an enemy with a very high move speed, this is gonna max out at 250ft regardless unless you move further towards the enemy, since by the time you're on your last few scorching rays they'll be at your max range (240ft with spell sniper).
Three levels of ranger can get you swarmkeeper, which can add another 15 ft on a hit.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
step 1: be small
step 2: have the crossbow master feet (takes away disadvantage for ranged attacks at short range)
step 3: get underneath them and start blasting
send them 200ft in the air and make them take the fall damage
why scorching ray over magic missile? I know Scorching Ray probably does more damage but Magic Missle has more attacks to knock them back further right?
Considering this is not a one turn contest, add the geyser function of the Decanter of Endless Water to send them 15ft back? Not sure if it works but...
Look at it! Beauty! A spoiler!
Look what you've done, spoiling it for you and everyone who can see this screen. You're a disgrace, you know that, right? You have nothing to be ashamed of but yourself, you moster!
But to be completely fair, every monster has a cute side, like have you seen people draw goblins? Goblins look so cool! You're fine, you may seem like a monster, but I bet you're cute on the inside!
Hope I've made your day!