If I learn Book of Shadows, can I use it to learn Pact Familiar or Pact Weapon?
Can a Bard's Magical Secrets learn Modify Spell or other similar specialty spells?
Book Of Shadows and Magical Secrets both explicitly state that you must pick spells from the Arcane, Divine or Primal lists. These class-specific spells aren't on those three lists, same with Eldritch Blast. Sounds like Vicious Mockery and Dissonant Whispers are going to be made Bard-exclusive in a future playtest release.
There are many people trying to find the negative points of this change. However, it seems to me a good design option to integrate as many features of the casters in their spell system. After all, his thing is to do magic, and spells must be the mainstay of these classes.
I just hope they apply this logic to the druid as well, and turn wildshape into a class spell.
At first it seemed like this just added an extra step for the features, but actually, turning these features into spells integrates them into the class resource system (spell slots), and makes them consistent with other magic in terms of world building, so they can also be counterspelled, detected, etc. Overall, I actually like this.
There are many people trying to find the negative points of this change. However, it seems to me a good design option to integrate as many features of the casters in their spell system. After all, his thing is to do magic, and spells must be the mainstay of these classes.
I just hope they apply this logic to the druid as well, and turn wildshape into a class spell.
I disagree that everything important attached to a caster class should become a spell, but beyond that... as a design philosophy it's at odds with what they're doing to monster stat blocks, which is to remove spells in favor of giving features with spell-like effects
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
There are many people trying to find the negative points of this change. However, it seems to me a good design option to integrate as many features of the casters in their spell system. After all, his thing is to do magic, and spells must be the mainstay of these classes.
I just hope they apply this logic to the druid as well, and turn wildshape into a class spell.
I disagree that everything important attached to a caster class should become a spell, but beyond that... as a design philosophy it's at odds with what they're doing to monster stat blocks, which is to remove spells in favor of giving features with spell-like effects
Yes, because the monsters don't need spell slots since they are only used in combat and that's it. After they have spell slots it's unnecessarily complicating the DM's job. that they are features simplifies the handling of the monsters.
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management. The same goal is achieved with two different approaches, which is a good design.
I hate it, it is so pointlessly complicated. Most of them are cantrips so don't use spellslots, and those that do use a spellslot require so much time that the hours in a day limit their casting more than spellslots. In practice all that is changing is that instead of looking in one place to figure out what your class does you have to look in two places to figure out what your class does and create confusion about whether or not these features can be accessed outside of the intended class.
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management.
Turning warlock pact boons into cantrips in no way "simplifies their management"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
All the changes to many of the classes suck, so honestly I would just use homebrew. Like giving warlocks extra slots at levels 5, 9, and 13. That would fix a lot.
There are many people trying to find the negative points of this change. However, it seems to me a good design option to integrate as many features of the casters in their spell system. After all, his thing is to do magic, and spells must be the mainstay of these classes.
I just hope they apply this logic to the druid as well, and turn wildshape into a class spell.
I disagree that everything important attached to a caster class should become a spell, but beyond that... as a design philosophy it's at odds with what they're doing to monster stat blocks, which is to remove spells in favor of giving features with spell-like effects
Yes, because the monsters don't need spell slots since they are only used in combat and that's it. After they have spell slots it's unnecessarily complicating the DM's job. that they are features simplifies the handling of the monsters.
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management. The same goal is achieved with two different approaches, which is a good design.
Why does the management need to be simplified? It’s not complicated now. IMO, it’s already too simple and I wish there was more resource management to 5e.
I don't mind the class features being converted into spells, as it makes it more obvious what is a magical and what isn't, however I don't think class specific spells need to appear with the three main lists, it could simply be a spell listed under the relevant class/sub-class. You want all the information together but the current set-up has you going back and forth through the document which is not easy and definitely not welcoming to beginners.
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management.
Turning warlock pact boons into cantrips in no way "simplifies their management"
No, turning pacts into cantrips doesn't simplify resource management since it was never something that spent resources. However, it does not complicate it either.
I really don't understand your aversion to this design. I like it because it opens the door for casters to have their features centralized in a single system. For example, that instead of being able to use wild shape x times, it's a level 3 spell (to say the least) and that you can cast at higher levels to gain other things. And for Wizards, for example, it makes a lot of sense that writing down their spells in a book is a ritual.
There are many people trying to find the negative points of this change. However, it seems to me a good design option to integrate as many features of the casters in their spell system. After all, his thing is to do magic, and spells must be the mainstay of these classes.
I just hope they apply this logic to the druid as well, and turn wildshape into a class spell.
One thing I do not like about this class feature giving you a unique spell design is that if your reading trough a class to see if it is something you would like to play you need to do a lot of flipping back and forth between the pages with the class and the spells section to get a good idea of what the class actually does.
This would be les of a issue of you use a digital version like DnD beyond where you would probably get some popup if you mouse over the spell name.
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management.
Turning warlock pact boons into cantrips in no way "simplifies their management"
No, turning pacts into cantrips doesn't simplify resource management since it was never something that spent resources. However, it does not complicate it either.
I really don't understand your aversion to this design. I like it because it opens the door for casters to have their features centralized in a single system. For example, that instead of being able to use wild shape x times, it's a level 3 spell (to say the least) and that you can cast at higher levels to gain other things. And for Wizards, for example, it makes a lot of sense that writing down their spells in a book is a ritual.
So you want druid's wild shapes to be counterspelled? That'll go over well
The idea that everything a caster does should be a spell is just dumb, sorry. It's actual nonsense. That's like saying everything a fighter does, even Second Wind, should involve the Attack action, or every single thing a monk does should require spending ki. (Although that does seem to be the direction they inched toward with barbarian, with the whole "all checks can be STR-based when you're Raging" bit of ridiculousness)
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management.
Turning warlock pact boons into cantrips in no way "simplifies their management"
No, turning pacts into cantrips doesn't simplify resource management since it was never something that spent resources. However, it does not complicate it either.
I really don't understand your aversion to this design. I like it because it opens the door for casters to have their features centralized in a single system. For example, that instead of being able to use wild shape x times, it's a level 3 spell (to say the least) and that you can cast at higher levels to gain other things. And for Wizards, for example, it makes a lot of sense that writing down their spells in a book is a ritual.
So you want druid's wild shapes to be counterspelled? That'll go over well
Frankly, I don't see the problem. You're not going to play a Wizard because pretty much everything it can do can be counterspelled or dispelled? Sorry but I don't understand that logic.
And yes, it seems thematic to me that everything a wizard does has to do with his arcane magic. That everything a cleric does has to do with his divine magic or that everything a druid does has to do with his natural magic. Call me weird if you want, but I find it highly thematic and immersive.
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If I learn Book of Shadows, can I use it to learn Pact Familiar or Pact Weapon?
Can a Bard's Magical Secrets learn Modify Spell or other similar specialty spells?
No. The class feature spells are Source spells, they can only be cast using the appropriate class feature.
Thanks.
It still seems like a solution in search of a problem.
And sooner or later, "choose a [spell/cantrip] from any [source/class]" will slip past the editors into an official splatbook or module.
That risk of slippage is exactly why they're going with the much easier "Arcane Spell List:" etc nomenclature.
I’m wondering if the change was for streamlining on dnd beyond. That way you have more relevant rules and uses remaining all in one place.
Book Of Shadows and Magical Secrets both explicitly state that you must pick spells from the Arcane, Divine or Primal lists. These class-specific spells aren't on those three lists, same with Eldritch Blast. Sounds like Vicious Mockery and Dissonant Whispers are going to be made Bard-exclusive in a future playtest release.
There are many people trying to find the negative points of this change. However, it seems to me a good design option to integrate as many features of the casters in their spell system. After all, his thing is to do magic, and spells must be the mainstay of these classes.
I just hope they apply this logic to the druid as well, and turn wildshape into a class spell.
At first it seemed like this just added an extra step for the features, but actually, turning these features into spells integrates them into the class resource system (spell slots), and makes them consistent with other magic in terms of world building, so they can also be counterspelled, detected, etc. Overall, I actually like this.
I disagree that everything important attached to a caster class should become a spell, but beyond that... as a design philosophy it's at odds with what they're doing to monster stat blocks, which is to remove spells in favor of giving features with spell-like effects
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yes, because the monsters don't need spell slots since they are only used in combat and that's it. After they have spell slots it's unnecessarily complicating the DM's job. that they are features simplifies the handling of the monsters.
However, integrating features into the magic system of the classes what it does is simplify their management. The same goal is achieved with two different approaches, which is a good design.
I hate it, it is so pointlessly complicated. Most of them are cantrips so don't use spellslots, and those that do use a spellslot require so much time that the hours in a day limit their casting more than spellslots. In practice all that is changing is that instead of looking in one place to figure out what your class does you have to look in two places to figure out what your class does and create confusion about whether or not these features can be accessed outside of the intended class.
Turning warlock pact boons into cantrips in no way "simplifies their management"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
All the changes to many of the classes suck, so honestly I would just use homebrew. Like giving warlocks extra slots at levels 5, 9, and 13. That would fix a lot.
Why does the management need to be simplified? It’s not complicated now. IMO, it’s already too simple and I wish there was more resource management to 5e.
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I sure hope everyone is enjoying having to repeatedly flip through the entire document just to find out what your core class features do...
With physical books this will be even worse.
I don't mind the class features being converted into spells, as it makes it more obvious what is a magical and what isn't, however I don't think class specific spells need to appear with the three main lists, it could simply be a spell listed under the relevant class/sub-class. You want all the information together but the current set-up has you going back and forth through the document which is not easy and definitely not welcoming to beginners.
No, turning pacts into cantrips doesn't simplify resource management since it was never something that spent resources. However, it does not complicate it either.
I really don't understand your aversion to this design. I like it because it opens the door for casters to have their features centralized in a single system. For example, that instead of being able to use wild shape x times, it's a level 3 spell (to say the least) and that you can cast at higher levels to gain other things. And for Wizards, for example, it makes a lot of sense that writing down their spells in a book is a ritual.
One thing I do not like about this class feature giving you a unique spell design is that if your reading trough a class to see if it is something you would like to play you need to do a lot of flipping back and forth between the pages with the class and the spells section to get a good idea of what the class actually does.
This would be les of a issue of you use a digital version like DnD beyond where you would probably get some popup if you mouse over the spell name.
So you want druid's wild shapes to be counterspelled? That'll go over well
The idea that everything a caster does should be a spell is just dumb, sorry. It's actual nonsense. That's like saying everything a fighter does, even Second Wind, should involve the Attack action, or every single thing a monk does should require spending ki. (Although that does seem to be the direction they inched toward with barbarian, with the whole "all checks can be STR-based when you're Raging" bit of ridiculousness)
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Frankly, I don't see the problem. You're not going to play a Wizard because pretty much everything it can do can be counterspelled or dispelled? Sorry but I don't understand that logic.
And yes, it seems thematic to me that everything a wizard does has to do with his arcane magic. That everything a cleric does has to do with his divine magic or that everything a druid does has to do with his natural magic. Call me weird if you want, but I find it highly thematic and immersive.