If you use repeating shot on a cross bow, can you also use walloping ammo? Since the latter is centered on the arrow, and the former on the bow, I would say yes, but since repeating shot creates the ammo, would it be considered 2 infusions on 1 object
Repeating shot doesn't prevent you from loading a ranged weapon with actual ammunition, it just means you don't need to.
This magic weapon grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it's used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it.
If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.
You get all the effects of the weapon that don't rely on not loading the weapon. So you get the effects of the first paragraph (in addition to any effects of the ammunition).
Loading. Because of the time required to load this weapon, you can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make.
I'd probably go halfway on it and say that you simply can't load two pieces of ammunition in it instead of saying only one attack when using an action, bonus action, or reaction.
So if a player had Extra Attack they could load and fire one bolt and then fire one bolt magically created by repeating shot. This puts it at most 1 walloping bolt per attack action. You can fire twice, but can't load it twice.
This magic weapon grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it's used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it.
If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.
So if a player had Extra Attack they could load and fire one bolt and then fire one bolt magically created by repeating shot. This puts it at most 1 walloping bolt per attack action. You can fire twice, but can't load it twice.
This is how I would rule it. Your first shot gets to be your special ammo, then the second shot is the magically created "normal" shot.
How can you infer that intent? There are two separate abilities detailed in the infusion, the first covers buffs to the weapon, and the second covers an empty weapon that has loading. The two abilities compliment each other, and the phrase "and it ignores the loading property if it has it" doesn't mean ignore it once, nor does it mean you can only ignore it if you use the magically created ammo. By the logic that is given here Crossbow Expert would only ignore it once too?
Plain and simple the rule states the loading property is ignored if it has it. It doesn't say it is ignored only if you use the magic ammo, and doesn't say that you ignore it only once and then can only use the magic ammo. Unclevertitle's ruling seems to be a middle ground ruling to basically quell arguments like this, but to me the intent is clear. This infusion allows any weapon with loading to ignore the loading property (thus allowing the use of any magic ammo you find) AND will generate it's own ammo if none is present. The two are complimentary but NOT dependent on each other. To further add to this, a weapon that magically creates it own ammo, via this infusion, would naturally bypass the loading property because of how the creation of the ammo is described.
I think Unilever has the right idea, cronik seems to be a bit heavy on the rules are gospel. Each has it's own merits, but in terms of what is being done by the infusion, I would agree that the special ammunition would still be something you loaded. I dont think this would particularly punishing, nor too giving.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Repeating Shot. This magic weapon grants a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it when it’s used to make a ranged attack, and it ignores the loading property if it has it.
If you load no ammunition in the weapon, it produces its own, automatically creating one piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.
Your assumption is that the Repeating Shot infusion ignore the loading property because it loads the ammo that it produces. If those two statements were part of the same sentence I would definitely agree with you. If they were in adjacent sentences within the same paragraph I would agree with you. Those two statements are in complete separate paragraphs. RAW, a level 20 fighter could absolutely load 4 individual pieces of magic ammo into their crossbow and fire all four in the same action.
I do admit, RAW they should be able to work together. And I have nothing to support my interpretation but, I still don't think the repeating shot should waive loading property when you are loading it.
HOWEVER I'm not running any table, let alone yours. so take my opinion for what it is, and have your own fun. That is what will make us both happiest.
Oh, I quite agree with you. My point is, whenever anyone asks “Does X interact with Y?” my first thought is, if I were running a AL table, how would I rule it?
I do admit, RAW they should be able to work together. And I have nothing to support my interpretation but, I still don't think the repeating shot should waive loading property when you are loading it.
HOWEVER I'm not running any table, let alone yours. so take my opinion for what it is, and have your own fun. That is what will make us both happiest.
So if I use Repeating Shot on a shortbow do I only get to use 1 walloping ammo even with two attacks? Doesn't make sense to me. A Repeating Shot crossbow and a Repeating Shot shortbow are treated as having the exact same properties in relation to the loading skill. Repeating Shot just makes the crossbow as easy to rapidly fire as a normal bow it doesn't require that you use the magically created ammo. Seems to me that your interpretation would require the last sentence to read.
If you load no ammunition inthe weapon, itproducesits own,automatically creatingone piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.
Like I said, RAW they can interact. I don't like that idea, but I'm not running any table, let alone y'all's. I hope however you are using the rules everyone is having fun. I am very carefully phrasing this to avoid the use of the word "Wrong". It's an opinion and preference, but everyone has their own. If you disagree, okay, have fun. I just know how I think of them.
If you use repeating shot on a cross bow, can you also use walloping ammo? Since the latter is centered on the arrow, and the former on the bow, I would say yes, but since repeating shot creates the ammo, would it be considered 2 infusions on 1 object
Repeating shot doesn't prevent you from loading a ranged weapon with actual ammunition, it just means you don't need to.
You get all the effects of the weapon that don't rely on not loading the weapon. So you get the effects of the first paragraph (in addition to any effects of the ammunition).
Now I would argue that if you were loading ammo you still have to obey the rules regarding loading
For my own reference:
I'd probably go halfway on it and say that you simply can't load two pieces of ammunition in it instead of saying only one attack when using an action, bonus action, or reaction.
So if a player had Extra Attack they could load and fire one bolt and then fire one bolt magically created by repeating shot. This puts it at most 1 walloping bolt per attack action.
You can fire twice, but can't load it twice.
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This is how I would rule it. Your first shot gets to be your special ammo, then the second shot is the magically created "normal" shot.
yeah, I like Unclevertitle's ruling too. clearly the intent is to remove the loading action BECAUSE of the magically produced ammo.
How can you infer that intent? There are two separate abilities detailed in the infusion, the first covers buffs to the weapon, and the second covers an empty weapon that has loading. The two abilities compliment each other, and the phrase "and it ignores the loading property if it has it" doesn't mean ignore it once, nor does it mean you can only ignore it if you use the magically created ammo. By the logic that is given here Crossbow Expert would only ignore it once too?
Plain and simple the rule states the loading property is ignored if it has it. It doesn't say it is ignored only if you use the magic ammo, and doesn't say that you ignore it only once and then can only use the magic ammo. Unclevertitle's ruling seems to be a middle ground ruling to basically quell arguments like this, but to me the intent is clear. This infusion allows any weapon with loading to ignore the loading property (thus allowing the use of any magic ammo you find) AND will generate it's own ammo if none is present. The two are complimentary but NOT dependent on each other. To further add to this, a weapon that magically creates it own ammo, via this infusion, would naturally bypass the loading property because of how the creation of the ammo is described.
I think Unilever has the right idea, cronik seems to be a bit heavy on the rules are gospel. Each has it's own merits, but in terms of what is being done by the infusion, I would agree that the special ammunition would still be something you loaded. I dont think this would particularly punishing, nor too giving.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Let’s asses this:
Your assumption is that the Repeating Shot infusion ignore the loading property because it loads the ammo that it produces. If those two statements were part of the same sentence I would definitely agree with you. If they were in adjacent sentences within the same paragraph I would agree with you. Those two statements are in complete separate paragraphs. RAW, a level 20 fighter could absolutely load 4 individual pieces of magic ammo into their crossbow and fire all four in the same action.
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I do admit, RAW they should be able to work together. And I have nothing to support my interpretation but, I still don't think the repeating shot should waive loading property when you are loading it.
HOWEVER I'm not running any table, let alone yours. so take my opinion for what it is, and have your own fun. That is what will make us both happiest.
Oh, I quite agree with you. My point is, whenever anyone asks “Does X interact with Y?” my first thought is, if I were running a AL table, how would I rule it?
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So if I use Repeating Shot on a shortbow do I only get to use 1 walloping ammo even with two attacks? Doesn't make sense to me. A Repeating Shot crossbow and a Repeating Shot shortbow are treated as having the exact same properties in relation to the loading skill. Repeating Shot just makes the crossbow as easy to rapidly fire as a normal bow it doesn't require that you use the magically created ammo. Seems to me that your interpretation would require the last sentence to read.
If you load no ammunition inthe weapon, itproducesits own,automaticallycreatingone piece of magic ammunition when you make a ranged attack with it. The ammunition created by the weapon vanishes the instant after it hits or misses a target.^^^What they said.^^^
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Like I said, RAW they can interact. I don't like that idea, but I'm not running any table, let alone y'all's. I hope however you are using the rules everyone is having fun. I am very carefully phrasing this to avoid the use of the word "Wrong". It's an opinion and preference, but everyone has their own. If you disagree, okay, have fun. I just know how I think of them.
Think of it as a bolt-action rifle.
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