I and my lovely Battlesmith Lady would love to see some Invocations (or other Options) to customize the Iron Defender - something like giving it a ranged option or some kind of knockback or something like that. Maybe they could be worded so other "Pets" (homunculus and the turrets) could use them, too. It would only make sense to me.

Quote from hebeach89 >>

Rereading this from start to finish was a Journey. 
I kept meaning to pop in and see what all the back and forth was about but life happened.
So now that alchemist has been thoroughly debated, dissected and the general consensus has come to the conclusion that it is either a pile of hot garbage or perfectly fine as it is. 
Shall we move on to discussing a different subclass? 
Armorer perhaps? it's still in UA so there could be some changes there.
Artilarist maybe? I personally like it and think its probably my favorite subclass.
What about the Battlesmith? It's pretty great on its own.

If shield were to become a baseline spell what would you replace it within each subclass's list? I believe it should be baseline because most subclasses are getting it added to their spell lists.
For Armorer: I honestly have no clue what i would add for the armorer, maybe sanctuary. I dont know its such a weird subclass.
For Artilarist: I think that magic missile is onpoint for the flavor of this subclass, but considering its on the armorers spell list if I had to choose a backup i would probably go with chaos bolt.

For Battlesmith: Compelled Dual seems like a fitting addition, Its already balanced for a half caster. and not many classes have access to it. Searing smite would also be a nice trade out.

 I actually posted about this in another thread, so I'm just going to copy my suggestions here:

Armourer: Armor of Agathys, Compelled Duel, Absorb Elements, or even Hellish Rebuke
Artillerist: Catapult or maybe Hunter's Mark
Battlesmith: Floating Disk? Maybe Searing Smite or Thunderous Smite? Command could even work in a way.

Quote from Sutlo >>

I and my lovely Battlesmith Lady would love to see some Invocations (or other Options) to customize the Iron Defender - something like giving it a ranged option or some kind of knockback or something like that. Maybe they could be worded so other "Pets" (homunculus and the turrets) could use them, too. It would only make sense to me.

 I think some subclass-specific infusions would be a great addition! They'd be similar to the warlock's pact specific invocations. Here's some more suggestions:

Armourer: TBH, I don't think Armourer needs any specific subclasses, since you can pump so many infusions into their armour after level 9. The only thing I can think of right now that isn't already a magic item that can be duplicated would be an integrated shield. You infuse a shield into the armour and can expand or retract this shield once each turn as a free action.

Alchemist: Just to satisfy some people's hatred of randomization in this randomization based game, an infusion that lets you pick a potion from the table. You can infuse a bottle with this potion, then refill it with a spell slot. You could even have an infusion that you put on your alchemist tools that make any spells you cast through them have their damage converted to a specific type (acid, fire, necrotic, or poison, chose one when you apply the infusion).

Artilierist: An infusion to change the damage type of the flamethrower/ballista, or increase the range/speed of the turrets. If you had an infusion to give the turrets flight, you could even turn them into small, somewhat slow drones.

Battlemisth: The obvious would be infusions to add a static modifier to the defender's AC, attack, or movement speed. I think infusions to add different actions, such as a ranged attack or a short-term flight, could also be pretty fun.

Quote from TwoFaceTony >>

Quote from Sutlo >>

I and my lovely Battlesmith Lady would love to see some Invocations (or other Options) to customize the Iron Defender - something like giving it a ranged option or some kind of knockback or something like that. Maybe they could be worded so other "Pets" (homunculus and the turrets) could use them, too. It would only make sense to me.

 I think some subclass-specific infusions would be a great addition! They'd be similar to the warlock's pact specific invocations. Here's some more suggestions:

Armourer: TBH, I don't think Armourer needs any specific subclasses, since you can pump so many infusions into their armour after level 9. The only thing I can think of right now that isn't already a magic item that can be duplicated would be an integrated shield. You infuse a shield into the armour and can expand or retract this shield once each turn as a free action.

Alchemist: Just to satisfy some people's hatred of randomization in this randomization based game, an infusion that lets you pick a potion from the table. You can infuse a bottle with this potion, then refill it with a spell slot. You could even have an infusion that you put on your alchemist tools that make any spells you cast through them have their damage converted to a specific type (acid, fire, necrotic, or poison, chose one when you apply the infusion).

Artilierist: An infusion to change the damage type of the flamethrower/ballista, or increase the range/speed of the turrets. If you had an infusion to give the turrets flight, you could even turn them into small, somewhat slow drones.

Battlemisth: The obvious would be infusions to add a static modifier to the defender's AC, attack, or movement speed. I think infusions to add different actions, such as a ranged attack or a short-term flight, could also be pretty fun.

 
Armorer: My first reaction was that a free action would be too much but then I rechecked the UA Shield Training feat and it's on par. Thinking more on it for the cost of an infusion this seems good. It's kind of like a variant on Enhanced Defense.

Alchemist: I mean... this changes the cost of a level 1 spell slot to make the first elixir of the day not random to instead costing an infused item. That feels even more expensive to me.

The simplest solution to Experimental Elixir being random is to just make a class feature variant where it's not random. Then people who want the randomness as it is currently can take the original feature. And the people who find the randomness frustrating could go with the variant. Assuming no other additional changes to the variant everyone wins and no one has to obsess over it. (I'd continue to find the Experimental Elixir disappointing for other reasons that I won't be repeating. But I reserve the right to be an unsatisfied grump.)

The change in damage type is a very nice one. It's particularly helpful for cantrips. If I could cast Ray of Frost with Necrotic damage and Thorn whip with poison damage I'd be an extremely happy camper. The rest of the wording on Alchemical Savant still makes it best for single round AOE damage spells of which the Alchemist gets nothing worth writing home about so it's benefits on leveled spells are limited... but it would also bypass the poison immunity problem and that's freaking huge. I'm sold. I like that one a lot.

Artillerist and Battlesmith infusion ideas also sound good to me.

Quote from TwoFaceTony >>

Alchemist: Just to satisfy some people's hatred of randomization in this randomization based game, an infusion that lets you pick a potion from the table. You can infuse a bottle with this potion, then refill it with a spell slot.

I think to take up an infusion it should probably be a little bit better (remember you're competing with +1 weapons with bonus effects). What about if you use the infused flask to create an experimental elixir, then you can choose the type of the elixir at the moment you use it?

Basically this means that you can prepare one "wildcard" elixir every day using the infused flask. With the ability to also refill it during combat using a spell slot (bonus action?) it would be a very appealing option for an EA Alchemist I think.

That would be more inline with other infusions.

As a reminder: burning a spell slot already bypasses the randomness.  It's one of the reasons that subclass is so infuriating.

That said?  lessee...

Armorer: "Bilarro's Armor Locker"
This Infusion allows you to create a bracelet, torc, or other piece of innocuous jewelry.  While you wear the jewelry, you can don or doff your Power Armor as a bonus action; when doffed, the armor is shunted into an extradimensional space anchored to the Locker.  Doffing and storing the armor this way does not break your attunement to any magical items integrated into your armor.  If you are targeted by an attack while not wearing your Power Armor, you may use your reaction to immediately call your armor onto your body, recalculating your AC against the triggering attack.

Alchemist: "Alchemist's Stone"
Using this infusion, you transform a set of alchemist's supplies in your possession into an Alchemist's Stone, a fantastic catalyst for the many reactions alchemist's can create.  The stone may be used as a casting focus for artificer spells and fulfills the requirement to cast with alchemist's supplies for Alchemical Savant.  The stone has three charges.  While holding the stone you can expend a charge as an action to fill one empty flask you can touch with an Experimental Elixir of your choice, or with acid or alchemist's fire.  The stone regains all expended charges when you complete a long rest, at which point any liquids you've created with it lose their magic and disappear.

Artillerist: "Touret's Turret Truck"
Using this infusion, you create an intricate glove worn on one hand, attuned to your eldritch cannons and designed to allow you to more quickly move and reposition them.  The glove has three charges.  As an action, you may expend a charge from the glove to teleport your eldritch cannon up to 500 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.  Alternatively, while wearing the glove, you may expend a charge as an action while touching your Eldritch Cannon to reclaim the cannon.  This destroys the cannon.  If you reclaim a cannon in this way, the next time you summon your eldritch cannon, you do not need to expend a spell slot to do so.  

Battlesmith: "Steel Battalion"
Using this infusion, you create a grenade-like globe imprinted with the patterns and materials of your steel defender.  As an action, you can throw the globe at any unoccupied space within thirty feet of you; when it lands, it bursts and creates a temporary copy of your steel defender, destroying the globe.  The copy lasts for ten minutes or until its hit points are reduced to zero.  The copy obeys your commands the same way your steel defender does; you may issue separate orders to this copied defender as part of the same bonus action used to command your normal companion.  If both of your steel defenders are within five feet of the same hostile creature, their ability to coordinate their actions grants both defenders advantage on attack rolls against that creature.

I don't think Wizards will give the Battlemaster other Smite Spells, since the two he gets(Branding and Banishing) are exactly the two ones that dn't require melee attacks. I think it's better that way so the Battlemaster has the option to go ranged without feeling like loosing out.

The Steel Battalion Yurei proposed seems fine to me at first look but I wouldn't use it with my Battlemaster. The Defender is like a pet to this character and just cloning it seems a bit unpersonal.

Invocations I would like to see would be things, that give you options not Stats. Giving the Iron Defender more survivability would be great but I wouldn't want it via an AC boost on an invocation.

Spells I think should be on the spelllist of the artificer are :

Dragons Breath(come on give me my fire-spitting Iron Defender already!),Ensnaring Strike,Illusory Script,Tensers Floating Disk(but I don't really care about that one), cordon of arrows, earthbind, Locate Object.

Quote from Sutlo >>

Spells I think should be on the spelllist of the artificer are :

Dragons Breath(come on give me my fire-spitting Iron Defender already!),Ensnaring Strike,Illusory Script,Tensers Floating Disk(but I don't really care about that one), cordon of arrows, earthbind, Locate Object.

 

 Im STILL surprised Find Traps wasn't on the list too.

Quote from Spikepit >>

Quote from Sutlo >>

Spells I think should be on the spelllist of the artificer are :

Dragons Breath(come on give me my fire-spitting Iron Defender already!),Ensnaring Strike,Illusory Script,Tensers Floating Disk(but I don't really care about that one), cordon of arrows, earthbind, Locate Object.

 Im STILL surprised Find Traps wasn't on the list too.

Yeah. That's an "oh, duh" artificer spell. 

Given how useless it is in 5E, its lack is not missed.

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

Given how useless it is in 5E, its lack is not missed.

 Uh oh, maybe its just the various-2nd ed-campaigns-mashed-together-and-cruelly-converted-to-5e campaign Im playing in (Drow and Gith and Ghaunador, oh my) but I strongly disagree! haha the expertise Investigation of the rogue and my flash of genius isn't enough at times hahaha

Eh, I just remember back in the day when Find Traps actually found traps.  Instead of just being "oh, yeah, there's like, some traps around here or something."

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

Eh, I just remember back in the day when Find Traps actually found traps.  Instead of just being "oh, yeah, there's like, some traps around here or something."

While I'd agree it's a bit underwhelming, it's still handy as a warning that you should stop and study the room more carefully, so still potentially a good thing in a dungeon, especially if there's any kind of time pressure (so you can't just stop and spend an hour studying every room for signs of a trap). Of course if your party has a Barbarian you could just have them run through and see what happens, but it depends on your DM, as a sprung trap could mean losing access to a valuable item, or blocking of a path etc.

So personally I'd say it's still useful if you play campaigns where traps are either properly dangerous, or properly interfere with your progress; for the occasional low damage trap that you can just steam-roll through if you want to then yeah, it's not such a great pick. I think the key thing is that'd it be nice to be able to pick it if yours is one of those campaigns where missing a trap could be crucial.

Quote from Haravikk >>

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

Eh, I just remember back in the day when Find Traps actually found traps.  Instead of just being "oh, yeah, there's like, some traps around here or something."

While I'd agree it's a bit underwhelming, it's still handy as a warning that you should stop and study the room more carefully, so still potentially a good thing in a dungeon, especially if there's any kind of time pressure (so you can't just stop and spend an hour studying every room for signs of a trap). Of course if your party has a Barbarian you could just have them run through and see what happens, but it depends on your DM, as a sprung trap could mean losing access to a valuable item, or blocking of a path etc.

So personally I'd say it's still useful if you play campaigns where traps are either properly dangerous, or properly interfere with your progress; for the occasional low damage trap that you can just steam-roll through if you want to then yeah, it's not such a great pick. I think the key thing is that'd it be nice to be able to pick it if yours is one of those campaigns where missing a trap could be crucial.

 Articulately worded what i mean haha 

Let's not bring the usefulness of the spell here, but whether or not it is useful, but it should be on the Artificer spell list.

Quote from Yurei1453 >>

As a reminder: burning a spell slot already bypasses the randomness.  It's one of the reasons that subclass is so infuriating.

That said?  lessee...

Armorer: "Bilarro's Armor Locker"
This Infusion allows you to create a bracelet, torc, or other piece of innocuous jewelry.  While you wear the jewelry, you can don or doff your Power Armor as a bonus action; when doffed, the armor is shunted into an extradimensional space anchored to the Locker.  Doffing and storing the armor this way does not break your attunement to any magical items integrated into your armor.  If you are targeted by an attack while not wearing your Power Armor, you may use your reaction to immediately call your armor onto your body, recalculating your AC against the triggering attack.

Alchemist: "Alchemist's Stone"
Using this infusion, you transform a set of alchemist's supplies in your possession into an Alchemist's Stone, a fantastic catalyst for the many reactions alchemist's can create.  The stone may be used as a casting focus for artificer spells and fulfills the requirement to cast with alchemist's supplies for Alchemical Savant.  The stone has three charges.  While holding the stone you can expend a charge as an action to fill one empty flask you can touch with an Experimental Elixir of your choice, or with acid or alchemist's fire.  The stone regains all expended charges when you complete a long rest, at which point any liquids you've created with it lose their magic and disappear.

Artillerist: "Touret's Turret Truck"
Using this infusion, you create an intricate glove worn on one hand, attuned to your eldritch cannons and designed to allow you to more quickly move and reposition them.  The glove has three charges.  As an action, you may expend a charge from the glove to teleport your eldritch cannon up to 500 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.  Alternatively, while wearing the glove, you may expend a charge as an action while touching your Eldritch Cannon to reclaim the cannon.  This destroys the cannon.  If you reclaim a cannon in this way, the next time you summon your eldritch cannon, you do not need to expend a spell slot to do so.

Just realised I forgot to give feedback on these (I meant to and then forgot, does that still count?). I really like the Armorer, Alchemist and Artillerist infusion ideas as they are.

Quote from Yurei1453 >>

Battlesmith: "Steel Battalion"
Using this infusion, you create a grenade-like globe imprinted with the patterns and materials of your steel defender.  As an action, you can throw the globe at any unoccupied space within thirty feet of you; when it lands, it bursts and creates a temporary copy of your steel defender, destroying the globe.  The copy lasts for ten minutes or until its hit points are reduced to zero.  The copy obeys your commands the same way your steel defender does; you may issue separate orders to this copied defender as part of the same bonus action used to command your normal companion.  If both of your steel defenders are within five feet of the same hostile creature, their ability to coordinate their actions grants both defenders advantage on attack rolls against that creature.

I like the idea behind this one too, but I'm just wondering about the balance; if you're fighting through multiple consecutive fights (e.g- storming a castle or whatever) then 10 minutes can cover quite a lot of combat rounds, and for that entire time you've got a whole extra steel defender, so it's potentially quite powerful.

But is it too powerful? I'm finding that a bit tricky to judge. My current main character for example is a Bard, and with [Tooltip Not Found] he can summon a creature that's pretty similar to him in combat ability (better in some, worse in others, AC in particular) and that lasts for an hour, so the infusion is probably fine, like I say, I find it hard to judge on spawned creatures.

Theme wise I was wondering if it could be broadened; as Sutlo says making it a copy makes it a bit weird to use and limits theming a bit. How about tweaking it slightly so instead of a copy it's just a "compact prototype", so that could be of your main defender if you want, or it could a completely different design (even though it uses the same stat block), however you want to flavour it really. It being a compactable prototype gives some reinforcement to why it only lasts for a limited time (weaker magic fuelling it or whatever). Just a flavour change really, though making it a prototype rather than a copy could avoid complications if for example the Battlesmiths were given a load of infusions that can be applied to the Steel Defender (because if it copied infusions then it probably would edge towards being a little too powerful, depends on the infusions though).

Love all these ideas though; I think one of the things with Artificer is that WotC didn't give them quite enough infusions to really represent the sheer level of creativity you really want to play with as an Artificer character. I mean it's mechanically fine, there's a decent range there, but I'd happily buy a book that was just hundreds of infusions if they'd only make one.

I don't think WotC is going to release subclass-specific infusions after how hard the subclass-specific invocations for warlock were apparently shot down. Instead of infusions that directly interact with a subclass feature, I think we are more likely going to continue to see infusions that enhance the play style of a subclass (i.e. enhanced arcane focus for the artillerist, enhanced weapon for the battle smith, etc.). The suggested armor locker could become an enhancing infusion like this if it worked on any armor as opposed to just power armor, and I could easily see the alchemist's stone or something similar becoming a non-infusion magic item. However, I just don't see anything like the turret truck of the steel battalion ever seeing print except as artificer-specific spells that kinda-sorta do the same thing.

Quote from Yurei1453 >>

Armorer: "Bilarro's Armor Locker"
This Infusion allows you to create a bracelet, torc, or other piece of innocuous jewelry.  While you wear the jewelry, you can don or doff your Power Armor as a bonus action; when doffed, the armor is shunted into an extradimensional space anchored to the Locker.  Doffing and storing the armor this way does not break your attunement to any magical items integrated into your armor.  If you are targeted by an attack while not wearing your Power Armor, you may use your reaction to immediately call your armor onto your body, recalculating your AC against the triggering attack.

 

That sounds like a lot of fun! I had a similar idea that since the (UA) power armor becomes your spellcasting focus, you could have an action/bonus-action to don/doff it, and have it stand like a sentry while you tinker/lockpick/etc (maybe have the power armor gloves too clumsy large and give disadvantage skill checks to use tools while inside). You could then cast from the position of the power armor while you're unarmored outside of it. Think of Age of Ultron "sentry mode" near the start of the movie.

I dont think there are nearly enough infusions for there to be subclass specific ones. I'd love more unique scaling infusion options to compete with the flood of 'Replicate Item' options. 

I sincerely doubt that they would even attempt to make subclass specific infusions. They tried subclass specific Eldritch Invocations in UA and people lost their bananas until WotC changed them prior to Xanathar’s. WotC seems a bit hand shy when it comes to stuff like that.