What do you mean by "best" and are talking single classed?
The most fun single class IMO is a Dragonborn Tempest Cleric IMO using the 2024 rules with magic initiate to get Booming Blade, Truestrike and Witchbolt.
I'm just your everyday dungeon master. Ignore that jar full of souls. And those bones in the corner are just props, don't worry. I'm definitely NOT a lich. Definitely.
What do you mean by "best" and are talking single classed?
The most fun single class IMO is a Dragonborn Tempest Cleric IMO using the 2024 rules with magic initiate to get Booming Blade, Truestrike and Witchbolt.
Tempest Cleric is considered legacy though and probably wouldn't be accepted in a 2024 game. Twilight Cleric, however, is the most busted Cleric subclass ever, with perks so insane it almost looks like a homebrew class. And because it belongs to expanded rules, and not PHB 2014, it's not considered legacy and is expected to work with 2024 rules. And work well it does :)
What do you mean by "best" and are talking single classed?
The most fun single class IMO is a Dragonborn Tempest Cleric IMO using the 2024 rules with magic initiate to get Booming Blade, Truestrike and Witchbolt.
Tempest Cleric is considered legacy though and probably wouldn't be accepted in a 2024 game. Twilight Cleric, however, is the most busted Cleric subclass ever, with perks so insane it almost looks like a homebrew class. And because it belongs to expanded rules, and not PHB 2014, it's not considered legacy and is expected to work with 2024 rules. And work well it does :)
I think Twilight and Tempest are both considered legacy as their subclass abilities come at 1st level. Either of them have to be changed to work in 2024.
Twlight Cleric is extremely powerful at low level but in tier 2+ it is not that OP IME and is in fact weaker at high level than a lot of Clerics IMO. The centerpiece is Twilight Sanctuary, which is the best Cleric Channel Divinity at low level, but it is not the equivalent of a 5th level spell and you are throwing those around at 9th level. As a result it tends to be a non-factor at high level, in a tough fight you are not going to waste an action on it and in an easy fight, it is an easy fight so who cares.
I think 2024 Light and 2104 Death and Tempest are all going to be better at high level than Twilight in most campaigns. I have played all of these except Light and I have seen high level Light clerics played by other players.
Nah, if you create a 2024 Cleric using this website's character creator, include expanded rules but exclude legacy content, Twilight Cleric will be available as a subclass, but not Tempest. You'll get your subclass abilities according to 2024 Cleric rules.
What do you mean by "best" and are talking single classed?
The most fun single class IMO is a Dragonborn Tempest Cleric IMO using the 2024 rules with magic initiate to get Booming Blade, Truestrike and Witchbolt.
Tempest Cleric is considered legacy though and probably wouldn't be accepted in a 2024 game. Twilight Cleric, however, is the most busted Cleric subclass ever, with perks so insane it almost looks like a homebrew class. And because it belongs to expanded rules, and not PHB 2014, it's not considered legacy and is expected to work with 2024 rules. And work well it does :)
I think Twilight and Tempest are both considered legacy as their subclass abilities come at 1st level. Either of them have to be changed to work in 2024.
Twlight Cleric is extremely powerful at low level but in tier 2+ it is not that OP IME and is in fact weaker at high level than a lot of Clerics IMO. The centerpiece is Twilight Sanctuary, which is the best Cleric Channel Divinity at low level, but it is not the equivalent of a 5th level spell and you are throwing those around at 9th level. As a result it tends to be a non-factor at high level, in a tough fight you are not going to waste an action on it and in an easy fight, it is an easy fight so who cares.
I think 2024 Light and 2104 Death and Tempest are all going to be better at high level than Twilight in most campaigns. I have played all of these except Light and I have seen high level Light clerics played by other players.
Thank you for writing this. It gave me a good laugh and really really cheered me up to read it.
Twilight clerics are possibly the strongest subclass in the entire game and their channel divinity only gets stronger as the game progresses. You're a full caster who can wear heavy armour and use shields, by level 17 you're most likely having +1/2/3 in one or both of them so your AC is off the charts. You get +2 to dex saves and AC in the twilight sanctuary from level 17 as does the rest of your party, then at 19 you take the boon of the night spirit to functionally double your hit points. You have flight from level 6.
I've been playing a twilight cleric for three years, currently level 18, and can say with absolute certainty that the twilight sanctuary has prevented a tpk on multiple occasions at all tiers of play. My AC is 24, or 26 inside the twilight sanctuary.
Saying the death domain is better is laughable. While Improved Reaper is a good feature when you can use it it's going to be nowhere as impactful as handing out 20ish temp hp to your allies every turn.
Twilight Domain was a subclass that completely upset the balance of the game. Killing a party that had a semi-competent Twilight Cleric became nearly impossible. The amount of temporary hit points they could give out to the entire party was ridiculous, to the point where I have seen several tables house-rule their abilities to make them less crazy. It was basically broken to the level that the current Conjure Minor Elementals is broken. I expect that if we get an updated version of the subclass, we will see a serous reduction of their capabilities.
That said, if you are looking for the best subclass from the new PHB, Light and Trickery are definitely the front-runners. Light makes a better support class than Life, since avoiding damage is better than healing it back in 5E. Trickery has an amazing toolbox for problem solving and mobility shenanigans , and is especially potent if your DM allows emanation spells originate from your duplicate.
What do you mean by "best" and are talking single classed?
The most fun single class IMO is a Dragonborn Tempest Cleric IMO using the 2024 rules with magic initiate to get Booming Blade, Truestrike and Witchbolt.
Tempest Cleric is considered legacy though and probably wouldn't be accepted in a 2024 game. Twilight Cleric, however, is the most busted Cleric subclass ever, with perks so insane it almost looks like a homebrew class. And because it belongs to expanded rules, and not PHB 2014, it's not considered legacy and is expected to work with 2024 rules. And work well it does :)
I think Twilight and Tempest are both considered legacy as their subclass abilities come at 1st level. Either of them have to be changed to work in 2024.
Twlight Cleric is extremely powerful at low level but in tier 2+ it is not that OP IME and is in fact weaker at high level than a lot of Clerics IMO. The centerpiece is Twilight Sanctuary, which is the best Cleric Channel Divinity at low level, but it is not the equivalent of a 5th level spell and you are throwing those around at 9th level. As a result it tends to be a non-factor at high level, in a tough fight you are not going to waste an action on it and in an easy fight, it is an easy fight so who cares.
I think 2024 Light and 2104 Death and Tempest are all going to be better at high level than Twilight in most campaigns. I have played all of these except Light and I have seen high level Light clerics played by other players.
You're a full caster who can wear heavy armour and use shields, by level 17 you're most likely having +1/2/3 in one or both of them so your AC is off the charts.
Every Cleric can wear heavy armor in the 2024 rules. This is a big nothing for the subclass
You get +2 to dex saves and AC in the twilight sanctuary from level 17 as does the rest of your party., then at 19 you take the boon of the night spirit to functionally double your hit points. You have flight from level 6.
Big deal! At 15th level (2 levels earlier) ANY cleric can throw a spell that gives all allies within 30 feet advantage on all saving throws and enemies disadvantage on all attack rolls while blinding any fiends or undead that actually make a hit against your allies.
This is my point - at high level Twilight Santuary is pretty darn ho hum.
Then at 19 you take the boon of the night spirit to functionally double your hit points.
Any Character can take Boon of the Night Spirit. I don't get why this is specific to a Twilight Cleric.
I've been playing a twilight cleric for three years, currently level 18, and can say with absolute certainty that the twilight sanctuary has prevented a tpk on multiple occasions at all tiers of play. My AC is 24, or 26 inside the twilight sanctuary.
We have played several Twilight Clerics, including all the way to 20 and we have played all the other Clerics I mentioned all the way to 20. I can also say one of the few PCs I have had die died while in my Twilight Sanctuary (a 7th level Wizard).
Twilight Sanctuary is awesome in tier 1 and the begining of tier 2 when you don't have a ton of better spells, but by level 15 you generally have far better things you can do with your actions and your actions are what becomes the limiting factor in high-level play.
Saying the death domain is better is laughable. While Improved Reaper is a good feature when you can use it it's going to be nowhere as impactful as handing out 20ish temp hp to your allies every turn.
You mention a 17th level Twilight Sanctuary above. At 17th level a Death Cleric can use Chill Touch to do 8d10+88 damage while bypassing necrotic resistance. That is 132 damage on one action without using a spell slot. He can also give out 20 temp hit points with that same action when he does that.
That is not just a little better it is generally a lot better than Twilight Sanctuary as far as action economy and a better use of CD. Even if he can only get one target (4d10+44 damage) it is still generally a better action than Twilight Sanctuary and with 9th level spells available that is not close to the best thing either of them can do with an action.
Also keep in mind Twilight Sanctuary gives out temporary hit points and it gives them out indiscriminately. So you only get that if you end your turn inside the sanctuary AND you have less temp hit points than it would bestow. As an alternative at13th level Power Word Fortify can hand out 120 temp hit points to the ally being attacked for the same action cost and a 17th level Cleric can do that 3 times a day. Additionally things like Inspiring Leader, Tireless, upcast Armor of Agathys etc mean your allies are generally have temp hit points and only those who lose those hit points stand to gain significantly from the TS. Aid cast at 9th level is a weak way to spend that slot, but with the same action cost it is going to hand out 40hps to 3 different allies, it is going to stack with their current hit points and their temporary hit points.
Talking about subclass specific abilities that are way better in terms of temp hit points and blow this out of the water at 17th level:
A Tree Barbarian at 17th level gets 34 temp hit points as soon as he rages and can give someone else another 20 or so every single turn and he gets that from raging, something that only costs a bonus action and something he is going to do anyway.
A Druid is getting 17 temp hit points every time he wildshapes and he is can do it multiple times a fight as a bonus action ... unless you are a moon Druid and then you are getting 51 temp hit points.
A Fiendlock gets 22 temp hit points every time someone within 10 feet of him or someone he kills goes to 0 hps.
These abilities are not over the top awesome subclass abilities, but they all generate temporary hit points and they do it more effectively than Twilight Santuary because they have a much lower action cost (in some cases none) and in some cases either let you target the recipient or target when you get them. These are not all of them, only the most egregious examples I can think of off the top of my head.
Nothing about twilight sanctuary is "ho hum". Not at low level, nor at high level.
Unlike spells that might have parts of its functionality, it isn't a spell. And it doesn't require concentration. So you can still cast a spell on the turn you use it and concentrate an an additional major effect.
And Twilight is powerful as a Subclass even without Twilight Sanctuary. The other abilities are stellar, and the bonus spells rock hard.
Even the feature you downplay as redundant is not redundant. They get free heavy armor proficiency, which means in 2024 rules you can have heavy armor AND still pick up the theurge option. That's pretty huge.
There is really only one other subclass that is in the same league, and that is Peace.
Nothing about twilight sanctuary is "ho hum". Not at low level, nor at high level.
Unlike spells that might have parts of its functionality, it isn't a spell. And it doesn't require concentration. So you can still cast a spell on the turn you use it and concentrate an an additional major effect.
You waste a turn to use twilight sanctuary at high level. There are MUCH MUCH better things you can do with your action and at level 15+ its effects are mediocre at best. You have game breaking spells, you typically have legendary magic items. Twilight Sanctuary is not that great. It is not even good.
I've played Twilight Clerics at high level, I have played other Clerics at high level, I have played other classes at high level. I average 3-4 1-20 campaigns per year. I have a ton of high level experience.
Every character has an ability to give themselves advantage on dex saves and all enemies disadvantage attacking them at will. All PCs have that ability from level 1. It is called dodge, and despite being mechanically powerful it is generally not an effective use of your action (effective in some cases, but not generally).
Twilight sanctuary at level 15+ is similar. It's effects are not great compared to the other things you can use your action for.
And Twilight is powerful as a Subclass even without Twilight Sanctuary. The other abilities are stellar, and the bonus spells rock hard.
They are powerful, they are hands down the most powerful in tier 1 and the beginning of tier 2. Once 3rd level spells become ubiquitous not so much though and at high level there are more powerful subclasses (which ones depends on which specific level you are talking about).
I am not saying they are weak, I am just saying they are not OP at level and not "broken". The spell system in general is far more "broken" than the subclass is.
Even the feature you downplay as redundant is not redundant. They get free heavy armor proficiency, which means in 2024 rules you can have heavy armor AND still pick up the theurge option. That's pretty huge.
It is significant, but not "huge" further what I replied to did not say they got an extra cantrip and to add Wisdom to Religion checks .... which is what you are saying they get as compared to Death Cleric.
Compared to Tempest they get nothing as Tempest Clerics have the same exact ability as a subclass feature.
There is really only one other subclass that is in the same league, and that is Peace.
I've never played or seen a Peace Cleric played at high level. I have played Tempest, Death, Twilight and I've seen Light played and comparing those, it depends exactly what level you are talking about. In tier 4+ a lot of other Clerics are equal or better IME.
What is the best cleric build?
What do you mean by "best" and are talking single classed?
The most fun single class IMO is a Dragonborn Tempest Cleric IMO using the 2024 rules with magic initiate to get Booming Blade, Truestrike and Witchbolt.
He posted this same question for every class. I played a light cleric and a life cleric, and preferred Light.
Food, Scifi/fantasy, anime, DND 5E and OSR geek.
Dude, you just say "what is the best ____ build?" For every class, and just don't even look at the forums after that. Why?
Certified lover boy, certified dungeon master. WOP WOP WOP WOP!
I'm just your everyday dungeon master. Ignore that jar full of souls. And those bones in the corner are just props, don't worry. I'm definitely NOT a lich. Definitely.
Probably collecting ideas to use in a YouTube video or something.
pronouns: he/she/they
Tempest Cleric is considered legacy though and probably wouldn't be accepted in a 2024 game.
Twilight Cleric, however, is the most busted Cleric subclass ever, with perks so insane it almost looks like a homebrew class. And because it belongs to expanded rules, and not PHB 2014, it's not considered legacy and is expected to work with 2024 rules.
And work well it does :)
I think Twilight and Tempest are both considered legacy as their subclass abilities come at 1st level. Either of them have to be changed to work in 2024.
Twlight Cleric is extremely powerful at low level but in tier 2+ it is not that OP IME and is in fact weaker at high level than a lot of Clerics IMO. The centerpiece is Twilight Sanctuary, which is the best Cleric Channel Divinity at low level, but it is not the equivalent of a 5th level spell and you are throwing those around at 9th level. As a result it tends to be a non-factor at high level, in a tough fight you are not going to waste an action on it and in an easy fight, it is an easy fight so who cares.
I think 2024 Light and 2104 Death and Tempest are all going to be better at high level than Twilight in most campaigns. I have played all of these except Light and I have seen high level Light clerics played by other players.
Nah, if you create a 2024 Cleric using this website's character creator, include expanded rules but exclude legacy content, Twilight Cleric will be available as a subclass, but not Tempest.
You'll get your subclass abilities according to 2024 Cleric rules.
Thank you for writing this. It gave me a good laugh and really really cheered me up to read it.
Twilight clerics are possibly the strongest subclass in the entire game and their channel divinity only gets stronger as the game progresses. You're a full caster who can wear heavy armour and use shields, by level 17 you're most likely having +1/2/3 in one or both of them so your AC is off the charts. You get +2 to dex saves and AC in the twilight sanctuary from level 17 as does the rest of your party, then at 19 you take the boon of the night spirit to functionally double your hit points. You have flight from level 6.
I've been playing a twilight cleric for three years, currently level 18, and can say with absolute certainty that the twilight sanctuary has prevented a tpk on multiple occasions at all tiers of play. My AC is 24, or 26 inside the twilight sanctuary.
Saying the death domain is better is laughable. While Improved Reaper is a good feature when you can use it it's going to be nowhere as impactful as handing out 20ish temp hp to your allies every turn.
Twilight Domain was a subclass that completely upset the balance of the game. Killing a party that had a semi-competent Twilight Cleric became nearly impossible. The amount of temporary hit points they could give out to the entire party was ridiculous, to the point where I have seen several tables house-rule their abilities to make them less crazy. It was basically broken to the level that the current Conjure Minor Elementals is broken. I expect that if we get an updated version of the subclass, we will see a serous reduction of their capabilities.
That said, if you are looking for the best subclass from the new PHB, Light and Trickery are definitely the front-runners. Light makes a better support class than Life, since avoiding damage is better than healing it back in 5E. Trickery has an amazing toolbox for problem solving and mobility shenanigans , and is especially potent if your DM allows emanation spells originate from your duplicate.
Lowkey... you want Telekinetic so you can yoink enemies into spirit guardians. Well, for 2014 gameplay.
I'm probably laughing.
best is very relative, but don't worry if you are thinking about being a cleric you have already chosen the best class.
Every Cleric can wear heavy armor in the 2024 rules. This is a big nothing for the subclass
Big deal! At 15th level (2 levels earlier) ANY cleric can throw a spell that gives all allies within 30 feet advantage on all saving throws and enemies disadvantage on all attack rolls while blinding any fiends or undead that actually make a hit against your allies.
This is my point - at high level Twilight Santuary is pretty darn ho hum.
Any Character can take Boon of the Night Spirit. I don't get why this is specific to a Twilight Cleric.
We have played several Twilight Clerics, including all the way to 20 and we have played all the other Clerics I mentioned all the way to 20. I can also say one of the few PCs I have had die died while in my Twilight Sanctuary (a 7th level Wizard).
Twilight Sanctuary is awesome in tier 1 and the begining of tier 2 when you don't have a ton of better spells, but by level 15 you generally have far better things you can do with your actions and your actions are what becomes the limiting factor in high-level play.
You mention a 17th level Twilight Sanctuary above. At 17th level a Death Cleric can use Chill Touch to do 8d10+88 damage while bypassing necrotic resistance. That is 132 damage on one action without using a spell slot. He can also give out 20 temp hit points with that same action when he does that.
That is not just a little better it is generally a lot better than Twilight Sanctuary as far as action economy and a better use of CD. Even if he can only get one target (4d10+44 damage) it is still generally a better action than Twilight Sanctuary and with 9th level spells available that is not close to the best thing either of them can do with an action.
Also keep in mind Twilight Sanctuary gives out temporary hit points and it gives them out indiscriminately. So you only get that if you end your turn inside the sanctuary AND you have less temp hit points than it would bestow. As an alternative at13th level Power Word Fortify can hand out 120 temp hit points to the ally being attacked for the same action cost and a 17th level Cleric can do that 3 times a day. Additionally things like Inspiring Leader, Tireless, upcast Armor of Agathys etc mean your allies are generally have temp hit points and only those who lose those hit points stand to gain significantly from the TS. Aid cast at 9th level is a weak way to spend that slot, but with the same action cost it is going to hand out 40hps to 3 different allies, it is going to stack with their current hit points and their temporary hit points.
Talking about subclass specific abilities that are way better in terms of temp hit points and blow this out of the water at 17th level:
A Tree Barbarian at 17th level gets 34 temp hit points as soon as he rages and can give someone else another 20 or so every single turn and he gets that from raging, something that only costs a bonus action and something he is going to do anyway.
A Druid is getting 17 temp hit points every time he wildshapes and he is can do it multiple times a fight as a bonus action ... unless you are a moon Druid and then you are getting 51 temp hit points.
A Fiendlock gets 22 temp hit points every time someone within 10 feet of him or someone he kills goes to 0 hps.
These abilities are not over the top awesome subclass abilities, but they all generate temporary hit points and they do it more effectively than Twilight Santuary because they have a much lower action cost (in some cases none) and in some cases either let you target the recipient or target when you get them. These are not all of them, only the most egregious examples I can think of off the top of my head.
Nothing about twilight sanctuary is "ho hum". Not at low level, nor at high level.
Unlike spells that might have parts of its functionality, it isn't a spell. And it doesn't require concentration. So you can still cast a spell on the turn you use it and concentrate an an additional major effect.
And Twilight is powerful as a Subclass even without Twilight Sanctuary. The other abilities are stellar, and the bonus spells rock hard.
Even the feature you downplay as redundant is not redundant. They get free heavy armor proficiency, which means in 2024 rules you can have heavy armor AND still pick up the theurge option. That's pretty huge.
There is really only one other subclass that is in the same league, and that is Peace.
I'm probably laughing.
You waste a turn to use twilight sanctuary at high level. There are MUCH MUCH better things you can do with your action and at level 15+ its effects are mediocre at best. You have game breaking spells, you typically have legendary magic items. Twilight Sanctuary is not that great. It is not even good.
I've played Twilight Clerics at high level, I have played other Clerics at high level, I have played other classes at high level. I average 3-4 1-20 campaigns per year. I have a ton of high level experience.
Every character has an ability to give themselves advantage on dex saves and all enemies disadvantage attacking them at will. All PCs have that ability from level 1. It is called dodge, and despite being mechanically powerful it is generally not an effective use of your action (effective in some cases, but not generally).
Twilight sanctuary at level 15+ is similar. It's effects are not great compared to the other things you can use your action for.
They are powerful, they are hands down the most powerful in tier 1 and the beginning of tier 2. Once 3rd level spells become ubiquitous not so much though and at high level there are more powerful subclasses (which ones depends on which specific level you are talking about).
I am not saying they are weak, I am just saying they are not OP at level and not "broken". The spell system in general is far more "broken" than the subclass is.
It is significant, but not "huge" further what I replied to did not say they got an extra cantrip and to add Wisdom to Religion checks .... which is what you are saying they get as compared to Death Cleric.
Compared to Tempest they get nothing as Tempest Clerics have the same exact ability as a subclass feature.
I've never played or seen a Peace Cleric played at high level. I have played Tempest, Death, Twilight and I've seen Light played and comparing those, it depends exactly what level you are talking about. In tier 4+ a lot of other Clerics are equal or better IME.