Monk with firearms you say? Yup seems legit, here for the experts to help me legitimate it if possible The next question would be which subclass would fit nicely? Way of the Open hand? leave enemy prone with FoB and double-tap it on the floor with ur gun?? maybe two lvls in artificer for infusion and get unlimited ammo?
More fun and RP playing John Wick or John Woo than optimizing but hey if firearms are allowed dmg is not bad plus now u got range just in case.
Gunner Feat
You have a quick hand and keen eye when employing firearms, granting you the following benefits:
Increase your Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
Monk: Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.
Certain monasteries use specialized forms of the monk weapons. For example, you might use a club that is two lengths of wood connected by a short chain (called a nunchaku) or a sickle with a shorter, straighter blade (called a kama). Whatever name you use for a monk weapon, you can use the game statistics provided for the weapon in the Weapons section.
Optional Feature: Dedicated Weapon
2nd-level monk feature You train yourself to use a variety of weapons as monk weapons, not just simple melee weapons and shortswords. Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again.
Personally I would go Kensei so you can have more than one gun as a monk weapon at a time. That, or you could also reflavor a longsword as a katana for that sick, sick EDGE.
Plus Kensei gives you a way to make your guns magical at later levels, which is nice. I think if you want the artificer infusion you are better off asking an artificer buddy to infuse your gun, because adding a good INT score into the mix for multiclassing makes the build difficult to pull off.
Finally, although the Gunner feat would probably still be good to have, going Kensei means you do not need it immediately as your choice of weapons are not restricted to weapons you are already proficient like with Dedicated Weapon
To use a firearm as a Monk weapon you'll need to be using the Dedicated Weapon optional class feature from Tasha's Cauldron and gain proficiency somehow (either the Gunner feat as you mention, or just ask your DM, as they're free to either give you proficiency to start, or let you train to get it during the campaign).
Alternatively you can gain proficiency if you choose a type of firearm as a Kensei weapon for a Way of the Kensei monk.
I don't believe either is supported on D&D Beyond though, since Firearms are an optional rule from the Dungeon Master's Guide; your DM has to allow these in their setting.
Otherwise sure, it'll work; Gunner to get rid of loading is the better option compared to levels in Artificer; multiclassing an INT-focused class will hurt your progression quite a bit. As Kaboom979 says if anyone else in the party is considering Artificer, consider begging them to infuse your firearm with repeating shot instead. 😉
That said, keep in mind that the loading property doesn't limit you to one shot per turn, it's one shot per action, bonus action or reaction; if you're using Tasha's Cauldron rules then Ki-fuelled Attack gives you a fairly easy way to trigger a full bonus action attack, meaning you can fire twice per turn even without cancelling the loading property. Since we get this at 3rd level you can even do it before we get Extra Attack (so you can be firing twice before the party's Ranger can with their bow etc.), though triggering this won't become easy until later on (Kensei's Deft Strike is great for that, but Focused Aim will let you trigger it earlier).
So if you go Kensei and use Ki-fuelled Attack to attack multiple times, you might find you don't need to pick up Gunner right away, leaving you free to boost ability scores or take another feat sooner, though I guess you partly want it to also eliminate the penalty within 5 feet?
Also keep in mind; you can't "double tap" a prone enemy easily, Flurry of Blows comes after attacking so you can't knock them prone before firing this way, the main benefit of knocking an enemy prone is so that your allies can hit them more easily with melee attacks, as unless the enemy is grappled they'll have stood up again before your next turn. Also when an enemy is prone you have disadvantage on ranged attacks against them, unless your DM is generous with you firing at point blank range.
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I feel like there is a way to work Gun Katas into this. You know, the Gun Fu style in the movie "Equilibrium". Like there should be some way to fire off a shot and dodge out of the most statistically likely path of return fire from ranged attacks in the same action, or land in the middle of a group of enemies and fire bullets at two people at a time while setting up doge rolls for when they fight back.
Using flurry of blows to make ranged attacks is definitely something that should be done. It's that dodge action that's a key feature of Gun Katas that is missing.
I feel like there is a way to work Gun Katas into this. You know, the Gun Fu style in the movie "Equilibrium". Like there should be some way to fire off a shot and dodge out of the most statistically likely path of return fire from ranged attacks in the same action, or land in the middle of a group of enemies and fire bullets at two people at a time while setting up doge rolls for when they fight back.
Using flurry of blows to make ranged attacks is definitely something that should be done. It's that dodge action that's a key feature of Gun Katas that is missing.
Doesn't Patient Defence have that covered? You can still fire off at least one shot with your action, while dodging as your bonus action, but since it uses Ki you're limited in how long you can do it for (which I think is fair as in Equilibrium it wasn't a perfect art).
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Oh, I don't think there was anything "fair" about Gun Katas in the movie. I get what you're saying though. Game mechanics need to be balanced. Maybe a gun fu monk shouldn't be able to spam that "shoot-dodge-shoot-dodge" move in the game like in the movie.
I guess creative use of Patient Defence can be used to imitate that to a limited degree. I seem to remember Christian Bale firing off two guns as once while performing performing a dodge move in the same action. Think about it. He shot two guns at surrounding enemies and dodged return fire in the same action. I'm thinking you should spend ki for that, but if you're going full gun fu, that specific move should be a single action. Otherwise it's....slower.
Monk has a built-in "dodge bullets" mechanic already, you just have to reflavor Deflect Missiles a little so it's less of a "catching a bullet with my bare hand/throwing it back" and more of a "moving out of the way/shooting the bullet" or whatever you want the exact flavor to be.
If we go into homebrew though, I think it would be appropriate for a Gun Fu subclass to get a buff to Deflect Missiles, for example letting you use 1Ki point to use it again after having expended your reaction
I'll preface this by saying, it's a bummer, but if I'm reading the rules correctly, you can't use firearms as dedicated monk weapons. For a monk to dedicate a weapon, the weapon must fall under the category of simple or martial, and a firearm is neither.
I'll preface this by saying, it's a bummer, but if I'm reading the rules correctly, you can't use firearms as dedicated monk weapons. For a monk to dedicate a weapon, the weapon must fall under the category of simple or martial, and a firearm is neither.
Firearms actually are martial ranged weapons (they're listed this way in the DMG), but on D&D Beyond they're listed as "Firearms" as a custom category which isn't really correct.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Monk with firearms you say? Yup seems legit, here for the experts to help me legitimate it if possible
The next question would be which subclass would fit nicely?
Way of the Open hand? leave enemy prone with FoB and double-tap it on the floor with ur gun?? maybe two lvls in artificer for infusion and get unlimited ammo?
More fun and RP playing John Wick or John Woo than optimizing but hey if firearms are allowed dmg is not bad plus now u got range just in case.
Gunner Feat
You have a quick hand and keen eye when employing firearms, granting you the following benefits:
Monk: Martial Arts
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
Certain monasteries use specialized forms of the monk weapons. For example, you might use a club that is two lengths of wood connected by a short chain (called a nunchaku) or a sickle with a shorter, straighter blade (called a kama). Whatever name you use for a monk weapon, you can use the game statistics provided for the weapon in the Weapons section.
Optional Feature: Dedicated Weapon
2nd-level monk feature
You train yourself to use a variety of weapons as monk weapons, not just simple melee weapons and shortswords. Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again.
The chosen weapon must meet these criteria:
Personally I would go Kensei so you can have more than one gun as a monk weapon at a time. That, or you could also reflavor a longsword as a katana for that sick, sick EDGE.
Plus Kensei gives you a way to make your guns magical at later levels, which is nice. I think if you want the artificer infusion you are better off asking an artificer buddy to infuse your gun, because adding a good INT score into the mix for multiclassing makes the build difficult to pull off.
Finally, although the Gunner feat would probably still be good to have, going Kensei means you do not need it immediately as your choice of weapons are not restricted to weapons you are already proficient like with Dedicated Weapon
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To use a firearm as a Monk weapon you'll need to be using the Dedicated Weapon optional class feature from Tasha's Cauldron and gain proficiency somehow (either the Gunner feat as you mention, or just ask your DM, as they're free to either give you proficiency to start, or let you train to get it during the campaign).
Alternatively you can gain proficiency if you choose a type of firearm as a Kensei weapon for a Way of the Kensei monk.
I don't believe either is supported on D&D Beyond though, since Firearms are an optional rule from the Dungeon Master's Guide; your DM has to allow these in their setting.
Otherwise sure, it'll work; Gunner to get rid of loading is the better option compared to levels in Artificer; multiclassing an INT-focused class will hurt your progression quite a bit. As Kaboom979 says if anyone else in the party is considering Artificer, consider begging them to infuse your firearm with repeating shot instead. 😉
That said, keep in mind that the loading property doesn't limit you to one shot per turn, it's one shot per action, bonus action or reaction; if you're using Tasha's Cauldron rules then Ki-fuelled Attack gives you a fairly easy way to trigger a full bonus action attack, meaning you can fire twice per turn even without cancelling the loading property. Since we get this at 3rd level you can even do it before we get Extra Attack (so you can be firing twice before the party's Ranger can with their bow etc.), though triggering this won't become easy until later on (Kensei's Deft Strike is great for that, but Focused Aim will let you trigger it earlier).
So if you go Kensei and use Ki-fuelled Attack to attack multiple times, you might find you don't need to pick up Gunner right away, leaving you free to boost ability scores or take another feat sooner, though I guess you partly want it to also eliminate the penalty within 5 feet?
Also keep in mind; you can't "double tap" a prone enemy easily, Flurry of Blows comes after attacking so you can't knock them prone before firing this way, the main benefit of knocking an enemy prone is so that your allies can hit them more easily with melee attacks, as unless the enemy is grappled they'll have stood up again before your next turn. Also when an enemy is prone you have disadvantage on ranged attacks against them, unless your DM is generous with you firing at point blank range.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I feel like there is a way to work Gun Katas into this. You know, the Gun Fu style in the movie "Equilibrium". Like there should be some way to fire off a shot and dodge out of the most statistically likely path of return fire from ranged attacks in the same action, or land in the middle of a group of enemies and fire bullets at two people at a time while setting up doge rolls for when they fight back.
Using flurry of blows to make ranged attacks is definitely something that should be done. It's that dodge action that's a key feature of Gun Katas that is missing.
Doesn't Patient Defence have that covered? You can still fire off at least one shot with your action, while dodging as your bonus action, but since it uses Ki you're limited in how long you can do it for (which I think is fair as in Equilibrium it wasn't a perfect art).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
That or just moving, attacking, and moving again. You don't need extra mechanics to do this, just a creative description of what you're doing.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Oh, I don't think there was anything "fair" about Gun Katas in the movie. I get what you're saying though. Game mechanics need to be balanced. Maybe a gun fu monk shouldn't be able to spam that "shoot-dodge-shoot-dodge" move in the game like in the movie.
I guess creative use of Patient Defence can be used to imitate that to a limited degree. I seem to remember Christian Bale firing off two guns as once while performing performing a dodge move in the same action. Think about it. He shot two guns at surrounding enemies and dodged return fire in the same action. I'm thinking you should spend ki for that, but if you're going full gun fu, that specific move should be a single action. Otherwise it's....slower.
Monk has a built-in "dodge bullets" mechanic already, you just have to reflavor Deflect Missiles a little so it's less of a "catching a bullet with my bare hand/throwing it back" and more of a "moving out of the way/shooting the bullet" or whatever you want the exact flavor to be.
If we go into homebrew though, I think it would be appropriate for a Gun Fu subclass to get a buff to Deflect Missiles, for example letting you use 1Ki point to use it again after having expended your reaction
I'll preface this by saying, it's a bummer, but if I'm reading the rules correctly, you can't use firearms as dedicated monk weapons. For a monk to dedicate a weapon, the weapon must fall under the category of simple or martial, and a firearm is neither.
Firearms actually are martial ranged weapons (they're listed this way in the DMG), but on D&D Beyond they're listed as "Firearms" as a custom category which isn't really correct.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.