That would appear to be a serious oversight to not at least give them mastery with monk weapons, if not simple as well - under the same rationale that was applied to rogues:
At level 1, Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, and Rogues get access to the mastery properties for certain types of weapons, as listed below:
Barbarian: Simple and Martial Melee weapons
Fighter: Simple and Martial weapons
Paladin: Based on weapon proficiencies (Simple and Martial weapons)
Ranger: Based on weapon proficiencies (Simple and Martial weapons)
Rogue: Based on weapon proficiencies (Simple and Martial weapons with the Finesse or Light property)
Warrior of the Open Hand gets a (sort of) weapon mastery with unarmed strike: remove opponent's Opportunity Attacks (no save), Push 15 feat (save), or knock Prone (save). But it has a precious resource cost, as it can only be done with Flurry of Blows (1 Focus Point). But it is a piggybacking on FoB, so if you were going to Flurry of Blows anyway, it's a nice little rider.
Also, by 2024 rules you can do your bonus action unarmed strikes first. So, "I flurry of blows" and on the first attack attempt to knock them prove. If you succeed, the rest of your attacks are with advantage.
Yes, Monks don't get Weapon Mastery. This means that every other martial class gets a feature with various unlimited-use damage and control options, right from Level 1, and the Monk doesn't—in fact, the Monk gets nothing new at Level 1.
Not true.
The new monk is also proficient in scimitars and hand crossbows (fairly minor)
Martial arts die is a d6 instead of a d4, at level 1 one extra damage per hit is not insignificant especially as most of the time they will be making 2 attacks as they have few other options for their bonus action.
They can use dexterity to grapple or shove. Thisis bigger than it sounds grappling is going to be a really good option in 2024 D&D and monks will be the masters of it.
Yes, Monks don't get Weapon Mastery. This means that every other martial class gets a feature with various unlimited-use damage and control options, right from Level 1, and the Monk doesn't—in fact, the Monk gets nothing new at Level 1.
Not true.
The new monk is also proficient in scimitars and hand crossbows (fairly minor)
Martial arts die is a d6 instead of a d4, at level 1 one extra damage per hit is not insignificant especially as most of the time they will be making 2 attacks as they have few other options for their bonus action.
They can use dexterity to grapple or shove. Thisis bigger than it sounds grappling is going to be a really good option in 2024 D&D and monks will be the masters of it.
That all changes right at level 2. Lots of options are competing for their bonus action. Including that precious BA unarmed strike.
Yes, Monks don't get Weapon Mastery. This means that every other martial class gets a feature with various unlimited-use damage and control options, right from Level 1, and the Monk doesn't—in fact, the Monk gets nothing new at Level 1.
Not true.
The new monk is also proficient in scimitars and hand crossbows (fairly minor)
Martial arts die is a d6 instead of a d4, at level 1 one extra damage per hit is not insignificant especially as most of the time they will be making 2 attacks as they have few other options for their bonus action.
They can use dexterity to grapple or shove. Thisis bigger than it sounds grappling is going to be a really good option in 2024 D&D and monks will be the masters of it.
Grappling is insignificant when Monks are no better at it than anyone else and grappling overall is significantly nerfed.
But good on you for acknowledging that being a functional class with actual options and utility is clearly inferior to 1 extra damage.
How so? Monks can use their DEX for the DC, and replace one of their unarmed strikes with Grapple.
With the Grappler Feat they get to grapple and do damage with one attack on the first attack. If it succeeds, all follow-up attacks are with advantage and they can force move the grappled enemy with no movement cost.
Unarmed attacks can grapple/shove and have feats that empower them - and you want weapon masteries on top of that? Must have been hard for you to share the birthday cake mate.
Unarmed attacks can grapple/shove and have feats that empower them - and you want weapon masteries on top of that? Must have been hard for you to share the birthday cake mate.
1. Because Weapon Mastery lets you shove enemies WITHOUT giving up damage to do so, and more effectively than the actual shove mechanic to boot. It is objectively absurd to argue that shoving is equivalent to Weapon Mastery.
2. There are no feats that exclusively benefit unarmed users. There are plenty of feats that make every other type of martial much more powerful than Monks.
You missed tavern brawler which is decent and grappler which is insanely good. Everyone can take grappler sure but an unarmed attack build has a great deal more utility from it.
You missed tavern brawler which is decent and grappler which is insanely good. Everyone can take grappler sure but an unarmed attack build has a great deal more utility from it.
I can’t wait to play a human open hand monk:
Tavern Brawler, Tough, Grappler. An endless supply of Kung fu shenanigans….
Yeah I’m looking forward to playing a Monk too, as a bit of a tank… A dip of Fighter 1 can still offer:
Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting for a tiny bit more damage… or Archery, great for a ranged monk, which to be honest the only reason you dip fighter not ranger
Weapon Masteries: Nick and Vex if you want to dual wield and get an extra attack. Then Slow or Push for ranged.
But as I’ve hinted, Ranger 1 offers so much more to Monk if you don’t want or need a fighting style because you get spellcasting and two free uses of hunter’s mark
Yeah I’m looking forward to playing a Monk too, as a bit of a tank… A dip of Fighter 1 can still offer:
Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting for a tiny bit more damage… or Archery, great for a ranged monk, which to be honest the only reason you dip fighter not ranger
Weapon Masteries: Nick and Vex if you want to dual wield and get an extra attack. Then Slow or Push for ranged.
But as I’ve hinted, Ranger 1 offers so much more to Monk if you don’t want or need a fighting style because you get spellcasting and two free uses of hunter’s mark
Yeah, a 1 level Fighter dip is tempting, but I would go with the Two-Weapon Fighting Style, so you can add your Dex to the additional attack with Nick.
As I see it, there are two optimized builds for Monk:
1. Leaning into Unarmed tactics and Tom Foolery with a Grappler build, and perhaps Tavern Brawler at level 1.
or
2. A direct damage build with 1 level of Fighter + Nick.
I feel like that fighter dip is too costly for what it offers. Especially on a monk planning to do an unarmed build.
The ranger dip however... It's all about when to take it.
I think a one level fighter dip for an additional attack is well worth it. At 1 Fighter 1 Monk you already have mutli-attack. At 1 Fighter 5 Monk you’re doing 3 main action attacks. Fighter doesn’t get that until level 11.
Yeah, but as I was saying above, Ranger is a decent rival to Fighter for this dip because the more attacks you have the more valuable hunter’s mark is.
You get some other spells too
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D&D, Youth Work and the Priesthood sadly do not typically interact... I do what I can!
Yeah, but as I was saying above, Ranger is a decent rival to Fighter for this dip because the more attacks you have the more valuable hunter’s mark is.
You get some other spells too
Yes, that's a viable option. Just keep in mind you already have a lot competing for your bonus action. Applying and re-applying Hunters Mark will be another one.
Looks like Monk will be the only martial class not to be given any Weapon Mastery at level 1. No idea if they get it later.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1742-your-guide-to-weapon-mastery-in-the-2024-players#What_is_Weapon_Mastery
That would appear to be a serious oversight to not at least give them mastery with monk weapons, if not simple as well - under the same rationale that was applied to rogues:
At level 1, Barbarians, Fighters, Paladins, Rangers, and Rogues get access to the mastery properties for certain types of weapons, as listed below:
Monks are first and foremost masters of unarmed fighting, while the other classes are first and foremost weapon users.
If you really want it, the Weapon Master feat grants one that you can swap on a long rest and gives a +1 to STR or DEX.
Warrior of the Open Hand gets a (sort of) weapon mastery with unarmed strike: remove opponent's Opportunity Attacks (no save), Push 15 feat (save), or knock Prone (save). But it has a precious resource cost, as it can only be done with Flurry of Blows (1 Focus Point). But it is a piggybacking on FoB, so if you were going to Flurry of Blows anyway, it's a nice little rider.
Also, by 2024 rules you can do your bonus action unarmed strikes first. So, "I flurry of blows" and on the first attack attempt to knock them prove. If you succeed, the rest of your attacks are with advantage.
Not true.
That all changes right at level 2. Lots of options are competing for their bonus action. Including that precious BA unarmed strike.
How so? Monks can use their DEX for the DC, and replace one of their unarmed strikes with Grapple.
With the Grappler Feat they get to grapple and do damage with one attack on the first attack. If it succeeds, all follow-up attacks are with advantage and they can force move the grappled enemy with no movement cost.
Unarmed attacks can grapple/shove and have feats that empower them - and you want weapon masteries on top of that? Must have been hard for you to share the birthday cake mate.
Ranger seems to be the best 1 level dip to get weapon masteries, as you can also get hunter’s mark free x2 a day and first level spell
The new Tavern Brawler feat does, and you can get that for free at lv1. Following benefits:
Tavern Brawler (origin feat) and Grappler.
You missed tavern brawler which is decent and grappler which is insanely good. Everyone can take grappler sure but an unarmed attack build has a great deal more utility from it.
I can’t wait to play a human open hand monk:
Tavern Brawler, Tough, Grappler. An endless supply of Kung fu shenanigans….
Yeah I’m looking forward to playing a Monk too, as a bit of a tank… A dip of Fighter 1 can still offer:
Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting for a tiny bit more damage… or Archery, great for a ranged monk, which to be honest the only reason you dip fighter not ranger
Weapon Masteries: Nick and Vex if you want to dual wield and get an extra attack. Then Slow or Push for ranged.
But as I’ve hinted, Ranger 1 offers so much more to Monk if you don’t want or need a fighting style because you get spellcasting and two free uses of hunter’s mark
Yeah, a 1 level Fighter dip is tempting, but I would go with the Two-Weapon Fighting Style, so you can add your Dex to the additional attack with Nick.
As I see it, there are two optimized builds for Monk:
1. Leaning into Unarmed tactics and Tom Foolery with a Grappler build, and perhaps Tavern Brawler at level 1.
or
2. A direct damage build with 1 level of Fighter + Nick.
I feel like that fighter dip is too costly for what it offers. Especially on a monk planning to do an unarmed build.
The ranger dip however... It's all about when to take it.
How do we feel about Shillelagh for the monk, now that it is easier to get with background feats?
Also True Strike, when under level 5…
I think a one level fighter dip for an additional attack is well worth it. At 1 Fighter 1 Monk you already have mutli-attack. At 1 Fighter 5 Monk you’re doing 3 main action attacks. Fighter doesn’t get that until level 11.
Yeah, but as I was saying above, Ranger is a decent rival to Fighter for this dip because the more attacks you have the more valuable hunter’s mark is.
You get some other spells too
Yes, that's a viable option. Just keep in mind you already have a lot competing for your bonus action. Applying and re-applying Hunters Mark will be another one.
You can choose Weapon Mastery as a feat. Then take advantage of the Nick property if you wish.