I am playing a fresh lvl 3 Oath of Vengeance paladin (CG), and we were in the Lost Mines of Phandalin campaign.
SPOILER ALERT BELOW
We plowed through the redbrand hideout pretty easily, and found the hidden weapon stash, so i thought i could pick up some crossbows to sell later, when we got out. this did not sit well with my party, because "Paladins are supposed to be above looting" and "for playing a good paladin, you are pretty attached to money", as well as "you're playing it like a video-game, whereas you must roleplay a good character better". I argued that paladins don't get anything for free, they still need money to upgrade their equipment, buy supplies and get sh!t done in general. (Im also a hoarder, i like looting a lot, yes i admit, few things are more satisfying than reaping the rewards after a good fight and then selling them to vendors and upgrading my stuff)
We moved forward through the skeleton room, and i thought "hey, we found 2 potions of healing and a hefty amount of coins in a cave in the middle of nowhere, and there's 3 graves here, they surely must contain something" so i went forward to loot the sarcophagi, finding some loot. The party proceeded to lose their collective shit over "a paladin desecrating graves". My argument was "the skeletons are already out and about fighting us, they're enemies, the sarcophagi are already open, they're pretty much containers right now, that's not desecrating", but that did not sit well with them either.
They're also tearing me a new one, because i had the idea to feed the dead bodies of redbrands to the Nothic in exchange for information, because "You dont respect dead bodies, what good paladin feeds the dead to a creature".
I'm at a loss here, i think they're expecting me to be ******** Good here, just because i'm playing a paladin, because paladins are always supposed to be the ultimate good guys, except when theyre oathbreakers, so no looting, no nothing, just smite evil, heal the party and live off 20GP quest rewards for the rest of the adventure.
I would really like you guys' opinion on this matter: Is my CG paladin overly attached to earthly belongings or is my party overreacting?
Fight the Greater Evil: Faced with a choice of fighting my sworn foes or combating a lesser evil. I choose the greater evil.
No Mercy for the Wicked. Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies do not.
By Any Means Necessary: My qualms can't get in the way of exterminating my foes.
Restitution: If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.
Nothing about looting. You are a "by any means' guy. But you should make restitution. Use the rewards to benefit the worthy.
This. They're probably stuck in the old way of thinking from previous editions, where paladins had different rules and expectations. (Those editions are where most of the paladin vs rogue memes come from that you see online) I can only imagine what they'd say if a sworn enemy of yours tries to surrender and you kill it on the spot. Even as CG, your oath takes precedent.
I'm fine with this kind of thing in other players as long as your character's stance on these matters is consistent and stated upfront. That being said, I would probably have picked a different class to RP the guy you seem to be playing. While anybody can be any alignment now, classes like Paladin have a lot of baggage from previous editions and being a LG-type knight in shining armor is deeply ingrained into the archetype.
One way you might try to pull off this character is to put some stuff in his backstory to emphasize his desire to be as well equipped as possible. Maybe he failed to protect someone because he didn't have a weapon. Maybe his armor failed at a crucial moment so that a demon was able to carry off his mom. Your impulse to loot will seem less video-gamey if you embed it into your character with RP.
Oh man, those guys would have really had a conniption with my Lawful Evil Fallen Aasimar Vengeance Paladin. Paladins in 5e do not have the restrictions placed on them that were prevalent in previous editions. You can play your paladin however you like, maybe he is a kleptomaniac with a criminal background or the shining beacon of the church. He doesn't have to follow a god if he doesn't want to, his oath is what grants him his powers, you could be devoted to a god or agnostic but it is not required. So feel free to play him as you see fit, just follow the tenants of your oath.
I am a lawful good oath of devotion paladin, and i called on the nothic every time we cleared a room saying that there was some bodies in here or some meat in here or something (cant quite remember what i exactly said as the hide out was done a while ago) as my stupid tortle (intelligence 5) was trying to make friends with it. that was a spur of the moment decision i made due to being the first person to encounter it, offering it rations and jam. it has worked its way into future encounters, where i have just walked into a room of goblins or bugbears and just said something to them like we are on the same side "the hunting party said to deliver the supplies" was one from later on in the mines campaign. (sorry if that is a spoiler as i dont know if it is in the campaign or if it is something our DM just threw at us as a random encounter while travelling to the next dungeon)
i dont try and loot directly, but it may be due to the party are fine and we split any loot we find (normally tying it to me as a walking armoury, started after the red brand armoury cashe you mentioned, due to me having the highest strength so the highest carrying capacity) or due to me RPing the low intelligence meaning he doesn't really think to go looking for something that is not in plain sight. i have fought with someone over an item, but that was the case of the loot was in a big pile and i was looking for something from my backstory relating to my god.
Paladins are not required to have vows of poverty or anything like that. Honestly, the situation sounds like the other players were hoping to divvy up the loot among themselves without giving the OP a share.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
What isn't said in the OP (unless I missed it somehow) is if OP's paladin is sharing his "loot" with the party. I can certainly understand their annoyance if he's just going around and grabbing everything not bolted down for himself (he admitted to being a hoarder), although in that case I would have framed my objections another way than "paladins are good and don't do that."
From what little info we have, there seems to be little cooperation between the party members. It sounds like they are too competitive instead of being happy about their partymate's good fortune. The entire group should just share the loot and stop being more concerned about themselves than the party as a whole.
I'm certainly sharing the sharable parts of any loot we find i.e the money on the table where the ruffians were playing dice, or anything found on any corpses. What they objected to was taking some items from the armory to sell, AFTER both my other teammates took their pick, or looking into the sarcophagi AFTER i invited them to participate, and them refusing because of the skeletons.
Good doesn't mean poverty. Too many people are caught up in the old idea that Paladins have to be lawful good. Not anymore. Furthermore, Vengeance and Good do not necessarily combine well thematically. Finally, it's none of their business how you RP your character.
You can always tell them you're going to donate some of the proceeds to an orphanage if you don't feel like telling them to pound sand and mind their own business.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tell your DM you want an Indefinite Madness, rolled result of 16-25 on the d100 table, effect: "I keep what I find". Yes, this is a real thing.
Seriously though, there is almost always one character class who is greedy to no end and it matches their character concept. Let them know you are giving them fair warning on loot and drops or Smites are happening. LOL.
I will open with the fact that I extremely new to the world of DnD, but I have to agree with the people you are playing with on this one. If you intend to be a Paladin (outside of the oathbreaker variant) then I believe you need to hold yourself to the highest moral standards. Looting dead bodies and coffins is more the realm of rogues or at least the fighter/barbarian group. Not that I am saying there is anything wrong with that type of play style or those classes, just not very Paladin friendly actions. I have recently started a campaign where I am a LG Noble Paladin whose expenses are met the family estate or the church. No looting, and all monies received for quests get donated to one temple or another. My opinion aside, you and your group are a team. So more than anything I think everyone just needs to be on the same page whatever that page is.
I'd speak to the party and DM, It's not nice to tell others how they should play their characters and would ask that they refrain from doing so in the future since you're not having fun.
Media examples of paladins include Judge Dredd and Dr Horrible's Captain Hammer. Paladins are typically just representatives of some establishment or other such as the crown. Your main thing is revenge. "I'm a vengence paladin! if you don't get off my back I might send some vengence your way."
But are you taking more than an even share? Doing that would be an injury and doing it as a paladin would be adding insult.
Having an approach of let's make sure we clean up here might go down better than I'm taking all this.
Ask them to show you in the RAW, where it says paladins can't loot?
Heck, even a LG paladin can pick up loot to re-sell. Why wouldn't they? It allows them to get gold, to then buy better armor or weapons. Which allows them to smite evil better!
Even the original true alignment restricted LG paladins of AD&D only had to tithe (10%) their income to their church or temple! But THEY could still loot things back in the day! They were not supposed to "retain" the wealth, but they could loot, have gold enough to support themselves in a "modest manner." But as long as the money was spent on upgrades for themselves, retainers, a stronghold, etc. it was ok. After that, any excess wealth was supposed to be donated to a worthy cause, but that didn't restrict them from taking items to sell.
5e has none of these restrictions. Your party are remembering or rather MIS-remembering older edition restrictions, I think.
Rangers don't have to be Robin Hood and donate everything they steal. Paladins don't have to forgo resources that could be vital to their mission. Etc.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I am playing a fresh lvl 3 Oath of Vengeance paladin (CG), and we were in the Lost Mines of Phandalin campaign.
SPOILER ALERT BELOW
We plowed through the redbrand hideout pretty easily, and found the hidden weapon stash, so i thought i could pick up some crossbows to sell later, when we got out. this did not sit well with my party, because "Paladins are supposed to be above looting" and "for playing a good paladin, you are pretty attached to money", as well as "you're playing it like a video-game, whereas you must roleplay a good character better". I argued that paladins don't get anything for free, they still need money to upgrade their equipment, buy supplies and get sh!t done in general. (Im also a hoarder, i like looting a lot, yes i admit, few things are more satisfying than reaping the rewards after a good fight and then selling them to vendors and upgrading my stuff)
We moved forward through the skeleton room, and i thought "hey, we found 2 potions of healing and a hefty amount of coins in a cave in the middle of nowhere, and there's 3 graves here, they surely must contain something" so i went forward to loot the sarcophagi, finding some loot. The party proceeded to lose their collective shit over "a paladin desecrating graves". My argument was "the skeletons are already out and about fighting us, they're enemies, the sarcophagi are already open, they're pretty much containers right now, that's not desecrating", but that did not sit well with them either.
They're also tearing me a new one, because i had the idea to feed the dead bodies of redbrands to the Nothic in exchange for information, because "You dont respect dead bodies, what good paladin feeds the dead to a creature".
I'm at a loss here, i think they're expecting me to be ******** Good here, just because i'm playing a paladin, because paladins are always supposed to be the ultimate good guys, except when theyre oathbreakers, so no looting, no nothing, just smite evil, heal the party and live off 20GP quest rewards for the rest of the adventure.
I would really like you guys' opinion on this matter: Is my CG paladin overly attached to earthly belongings or is my party overreacting?
You are CG Paladin, not lawful.
Here is what you care about:
Nothing about looting. You are a "by any means' guy. But you should make restitution. Use the rewards to benefit the worthy.
This. They're probably stuck in the old way of thinking from previous editions, where paladins had different rules and expectations. (Those editions are where most of the paladin vs rogue memes come from that you see online) I can only imagine what they'd say if a sworn enemy of yours tries to surrender and you kill it on the spot. Even as CG, your oath takes precedent.
I'm fine with this kind of thing in other players as long as your character's stance on these matters is consistent and stated upfront. That being said, I would probably have picked a different class to RP the guy you seem to be playing. While anybody can be any alignment now, classes like Paladin have a lot of baggage from previous editions and being a LG-type knight in shining armor is deeply ingrained into the archetype.
One way you might try to pull off this character is to put some stuff in his backstory to emphasize his desire to be as well equipped as possible. Maybe he failed to protect someone because he didn't have a weapon. Maybe his armor failed at a crucial moment so that a demon was able to carry off his mom. Your impulse to loot will seem less video-gamey if you embed it into your character with RP.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
You're doing nothing wrong. Tell.them to.mind their own business!
Oh man, those guys would have really had a conniption with my Lawful Evil Fallen Aasimar Vengeance Paladin. Paladins in 5e do not have the restrictions placed on them that were prevalent in previous editions. You can play your paladin however you like, maybe he is a kleptomaniac with a criminal background or the shining beacon of the church. He doesn't have to follow a god if he doesn't want to, his oath is what grants him his powers, you could be devoted to a god or agnostic but it is not required. So feel free to play him as you see fit, just follow the tenants of your oath.
I am a lawful good oath of devotion paladin, and i called on the nothic every time we cleared a room saying that there was some bodies in here or some meat in here or something (cant quite remember what i exactly said as the hide out was done a while ago) as my stupid tortle (intelligence 5) was trying to make friends with it. that was a spur of the moment decision i made due to being the first person to encounter it, offering it rations and jam. it has worked its way into future encounters, where i have just walked into a room of goblins or bugbears and just said something to them like we are on the same side "the hunting party said to deliver the supplies" was one from later on in the mines campaign. (sorry if that is a spoiler as i dont know if it is in the campaign or if it is something our DM just threw at us as a random encounter while travelling to the next dungeon)
i dont try and loot directly, but it may be due to the party are fine and we split any loot we find (normally tying it to me as a walking armoury, started after the red brand armoury cashe you mentioned, due to me having the highest strength so the highest carrying capacity) or due to me RPing the low intelligence meaning he doesn't really think to go looking for something that is not in plain sight. i have fought with someone over an item, but that was the case of the loot was in a big pile and i was looking for something from my backstory relating to my god.
Paladins are not required to have vows of poverty or anything like that. Honestly, the situation sounds like the other players were hoping to divvy up the loot among themselves without giving the OP a share.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Paladin is a holy warrior who will not break his/her principles.
I do not see what looting has to do with it? Defeated foes are looted, the spoils are divide amongst the party.
What isn't said in the OP (unless I missed it somehow) is if OP's paladin is sharing his "loot" with the party. I can certainly understand their annoyance if he's just going around and grabbing everything not bolted down for himself (he admitted to being a hoarder), although in that case I would have framed my objections another way than "paladins are good and don't do that."
From what little info we have, there seems to be little cooperation between the party members. It sounds like they are too competitive instead of being happy about their partymate's good fortune. The entire group should just share the loot and stop being more concerned about themselves than the party as a whole.
@Wubbie075
I'm certainly sharing the sharable parts of any loot we find i.e the money on the table where the ruffians were playing dice, or anything found on any corpses. What they objected to was taking some items from the armory to sell, AFTER both my other teammates took their pick, or looking into the sarcophagi AFTER i invited them to participate, and them refusing because of the skeletons.
Glad to hear it. Sounds like you just need to find a less crappy party then.
Good doesn't mean poverty. Too many people are caught up in the old idea that Paladins have to be lawful good. Not anymore. Furthermore, Vengeance and Good do not necessarily combine well thematically. Finally, it's none of their business how you RP your character.
You can always tell them you're going to donate some of the proceeds to an orphanage if you don't feel like telling them to pound sand and mind their own business.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Tell your DM you want an Indefinite Madness, rolled result of 16-25 on the d100 table, effect: "I keep what I find". Yes, this is a real thing.
Seriously though, there is almost always one character class who is greedy to no end and it matches their character concept. Let them know you are giving them fair warning on loot and drops or Smites are happening. LOL.
I will open with the fact that I extremely new to the world of DnD, but I have to agree with the people you are playing with on this one. If you intend to be a Paladin (outside of the oathbreaker variant) then I believe you need to hold yourself to the highest moral standards. Looting dead bodies and coffins is more the realm of rogues or at least the fighter/barbarian group. Not that I am saying there is anything wrong with that type of play style or those classes, just not very Paladin friendly actions. I have recently started a campaign where I am a LG Noble Paladin whose expenses are met the family estate or the church. No looting, and all monies received for quests get donated to one temple or another. My opinion aside, you and your group are a team. So more than anything I think everyone just needs to be on the same page whatever that page is.
I would just find a new group your party is living in the past. Conquest and vengeance are more for edgy oaths
I'd speak to the party and DM, It's not nice to tell others how they should play their characters and would ask that they refrain from doing so in the future since you're not having fun.
Media examples of paladins include Judge Dredd and Dr Horrible's Captain Hammer. Paladins are typically just representatives of some establishment or other such as the crown. Your main thing is revenge. "I'm a vengence paladin! if you don't get off my back I might send some vengence your way."
But are you taking more than an even share?
Doing that would be an injury and doing it as a paladin would be adding insult.
Having an approach of let's make sure we clean up here might go down better than I'm taking all this.
Ask them to show you in the RAW, where it says paladins can't loot?
Heck, even a LG paladin can pick up loot to re-sell. Why wouldn't they? It allows them to get gold, to then buy better armor or weapons. Which allows them to smite evil better!
Even the original true alignment restricted LG paladins of AD&D only had to tithe (10%) their income to their church or temple! But THEY could still loot things back in the day! They were not supposed to "retain" the wealth, but they could loot, have gold enough to support themselves in a "modest manner." But as long as the money was spent on upgrades for themselves, retainers, a stronghold, etc. it was ok. After that, any excess wealth was supposed to be donated to a worthy cause, but that didn't restrict them from taking items to sell.
5e has none of these restrictions. Your party are remembering or rather MIS-remembering older edition restrictions, I think.
Rangers don't have to be Robin Hood and donate everything they steal. Paladins don't have to forgo resources that could be vital to their mission. Etc.