To pull that off, the ranger is also splitting their Dexterity with their Wisdom. Remember, the primal companions all use the ranger's spell attack bonus to hit. An optimized ranger probably isn't stacking Dexterity, but rather stacking Wisdom and moving about in medium armor. This means they probably chose Duidic Warrior at 2nd-level for [spell]shillelagh]/spell]. Which in turn frees up their bonus action for something else besides just attacking.
And if they're going Dexterity anyway, they're probably going archer if the campaign is expected to go past 15th-level.
Yes. Lots of options and varieties. But I guess I look at the number, ranger to ranger, using zero resources, and no other subclass comes close at levels 11+.
It's not a big deal. As a ranger fan boy I should be embracing the love Tasha's gave us an option for.
It's not a big deal. As a ranger fan boy I should be embracing the love Tasha's gave us an option for.
Well to flip that around, it might not be too outlandish to suggest you might be happy to poke holes in anything that implies the OG ranger needed any help considering your history on the subject. :)
I think the general wording for class feature variants intends much simpler substitutions at the class level. As far as I'm aware, the companion alternative is the only "subclass feature variant" and represents the extreme lengths WotC is willing to go to avoid PHB errata.
I think your interpretation of RAW is right on. I also think it was not what the devs intended. As Jounichi pointed out, the companion would miss out on even basic features like doing magical damage. If the majority of the subclass features weren't going to apply, why did they even make it a Beastmaster? It could have just been another subclass altogether. It just doesn't make sense.
Strength-wise, you're right that it's a higher baseline. But it's also harder to squeeze any more damage out of it. The beast doesn't get +1/2/3 weapons, it doesn't get Hunter's Mark, it doesn't get GWM or Sharpshooter or any other item or feat bonuses. In a game with low/no magic items and no feats allowed, this will be a great choice. Otherwise it needs what it gets to remain relevant as other classes access new resources to improve their damage output.
Technically, they do benefit from the Moon Sickle, but only when the Ranger is using it. Of course, that means the Ranger themselves is lacking either a decent weapon or a shield, but it’s still technically a way.
Technically, they do benefit from the Moon Sickle, but only when the Ranger is using it. Of course, that means the Ranger themselves is lacking either a decent weapon or a shield, but it’s still technically a way.
I see nothing in the Primal companion or moon sickle that would suggest this is true. (unless your referring to when the companion is healed) the beast does not count as a ranger spell attack or a spell dc. Unless I'm missing something huge.
The beast uses your spell attack bonus to hit. So it gets slightly more accurate, and that’s about it.
I did miss a part because I haven't read the Tasha's beast stat blocks in a while (so I remembered the UA I think) but.....
Moon sickle
This silver-bladed sickle glimmers softly with moonlight. While holding this magic weapon, you gain a bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it, and you gain a bonus to spell attack rolls and the saving throw DCs of your druid andranger spells. The bonus is determined by the weapon’s rarity. In addition, you can use the sickle as a spellcasting focus for your druid and ranger spells.
The sickle says you gain the bonus when you make an roll for a ranger spell. Does it change the spell attack modifier or just the roll? Pedantic but I think its an important question. This brings up a whole lot I've never considered about the wording. Now I need to do a deep rules dive. You may be right.
In comparison Artificer's "enhanced arcane focus" and "wand of the warmage" just say spell attack rolls and don't call out a specific spell list. I've always seen that treated as spell attack modifier change (which may or may not be true). Even ring of spell storing "says attack bonus" not attack "spell attack modifier" showing clear distinction between the roll and the modifier.
After looking the phb for each class's spell trait clearly defines spell attack modifier. --- "Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier" and the stat block directly references this term. So the only way this would work is if the magic item is considered an exception to the general rule(defined term).
It's not a big deal. As a ranger fan boy I should be embracing the love Tasha's gave us an option for.
Well to flip that around, it might not be too outlandish to suggest you might be happy to poke holes in anything that implies the OG ranger needed any help considering your history on the subject. :)
I’m sure I have “no idea what you’re talking about”.
Let me put this to rest doing something called "READING TEXT and Understanding English Referencing"
First, the original Beast Master:
The Beast Master archetype embodies a friendship between the civilized races and the beasts of the wild. United in focus, beast and ranger fight the monsters that threaten civilization and the wilderness alike.
Ranger’s Companion
At 3rd level, you gain a beast companion that accompanies you on your adventures and is trained to fight alongside you. Choose a beast that is no larger than Medium and that has a challenge rating of 1/4 or lower. Add your proficiency bonus to the beast’s AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. Its hit point maximum equals the hit point number in its stat block or four times your ranger level, whichever is higher. Like any creature, it can spend Hit Dice during a short rest to regain hit points.
The beast obeys your commands as best as it can. It takes its turn on your initiative. On your turn, you can verbally command the beast where to move (no action required by you). You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, or Help action. If you don't issue a command, the beast takes the Dodge action. Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make one weapon attack yourself when you command the beast to take the Attack action.
If you are incapacitated or absent, the beast acts on its own, focusing on protecting you and itself. The beast never requires your command to use its reaction, such as when making an opportunity attack.
While traveling through your favored terrain with only the beast, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
If the beast dies, you can obtain a new companion by spending 8 hours magically bonding with a beast that isn’t hostile to you and that meets the requirements.
Exceptional Training
Beginning at 7th level, on any of your turns when your beast companion doesn’t attack, you can use a bonus action to command the beast to take the Dash, Disengage, or Help action on its turn.
In addition, the beast's attacks now count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.
Bestial Fury
Starting at 11th level, when you command your beast companion to take the Attack action, the beast can make two attacks, or it can take the Multiattack action if it has that action.
Share Spells
Beginning at 15th level, when you cast a spell targeting yourself, you can also affect your beast companion with the spell if the beast is within 30 feet of you.
Now what Tasha's says:
The Beast Master in the Player’s Handbook forms a mystical bond with an animal. As an alternative, a Beast Master can take the feature below to form a bond with a special primal beast instead.
Primal Companion
3rd-level Beast Master feature, which replaces the Ranger’s Companion feature
You magically summon a primal beast, which draws strength from your bond with nature. The beast is friendly to you and your companions and obeys your commands. Choose its stat block—Beast of the Land, Beast of the Sea, or Beast of the Sky—which uses your proficiency bonus (PB) in several places. You also determine the kind of animal the beast is, choosing a kind appropriate for the stat block. Whatever kind you choose, the beast bears primal markings, indicating its mystical origin.
In combat, the beast acts during your turn. It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action. You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action. If you are incapacitated, the beast can take any action of its choice, not just Dodge.
If the beast has died within the last hour, you can use your action to touch it and expend a spell slot of 1st level or higher. The beast returns to life after 1 minute with all its hit points restored.
When you finish a long rest, you can summon a different primal beast. The new beast appears in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of you, and you choose its stat block and appearance. If you already have a beast from this feature, it vanishes when the new beast appears. The beast also vanishes if you die.
When you take Beast master you can go PBH or TCE. If you chose PBH you get "Ranger’s Companion, Exceptional Training, Bestial Fury and Share Spells".
If you chose Tasha's options, you are still choseing Beast master but get " Ranger’s Companion Primal Companion, Exceptional Training, Bestial Fury and Share Spells".
Remember, "At 3rd level, you gain a beast companion" because you are forming a bond with a BEAST and those abilities are now assuming you have a "beast companion". But what happens when you are given the option to "form a bond with a special primal beast instead". Due to the INSTEAD you now are forming a bond with a Primal Companion therefore all references that once stated your "Beast companion" should now be replaced (Primal Companion, 3rd-level Beast Master feature, which replaces the Ranger’s Companion feature) with Primal Companion.
Just like as if you wrote a paper on a Man (Beast companion) and refereed to them "He/him", and then someone says "REPLACE Man with Woman (Primal Companion)" you wouldn't leave the "He/him"s in the paper because that is not correct grammar after the replacement happened.
Maybe. Everything in Tasha's is a power creep in the classes and subclasses, so I'm not surprised or against the rest of the subclass abilities working for/on the primal beast. I do think the words do not mean what several of you think they mean. For me, RAW is not law, but I do read the specific words used very differently.
I don’t think a TCoE Beastmaster needs necessarily to focus in Wisdom. It’s perfect viable to have DEX 18 and WIS 16 at level 4 and your companion would be attacking with a +5. It’s like a bonus action attack from PAM, TWF or CBE, but you don’t need to spend a feet or commit to a bad fighting style.
An Archer Beastmaster Ranger with a Sky Beast would cause very reliable damage having the defensive benefit of ranged combat. And I’m not even considering Sharpshooter, Hunter’s Mark and other things — Entangle would be an amazing spell for them.
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Two Weapon Baseline Fighter is (3.5 +5)*4 = 34
Two Weapon Fighting Swarmkeeper Ranger is ((3.5 + 5)*3 + 4.5) = 30
Tasha's Beast Master Land Shortsword is (3.5 + 5)*2 + (4.5 + 2 + 4)*2 = 38
This seems higher than it should be to me.
To pull that off, the ranger is also splitting their Dexterity with their Wisdom. Remember, the primal companions all use the ranger's spell attack bonus to hit. An optimized ranger probably isn't stacking Dexterity, but rather stacking Wisdom and moving about in medium armor. This means they probably chose Duidic Warrior at 2nd-level for [spell]shillelagh]/spell]. Which in turn frees up their bonus action for something else besides just attacking.
And if they're going Dexterity anyway, they're probably going archer if the campaign is expected to go past 15th-level.
Yes. Lots of options and varieties. But I guess I look at the number, ranger to ranger, using zero resources, and no other subclass comes close at levels 11+.
It's not a big deal. As a ranger fan boy I should be embracing the love Tasha's gave us an option for.
Well to flip that around, it might not be too outlandish to suggest you might be happy to poke holes in anything that implies the OG ranger needed any help considering your history on the subject. :)
I think the general wording for class feature variants intends much simpler substitutions at the class level. As far as I'm aware, the companion alternative is the only "subclass feature variant" and represents the extreme lengths WotC is willing to go to avoid PHB errata.
I think your interpretation of RAW is right on. I also think it was not what the devs intended. As Jounichi pointed out, the companion would miss out on even basic features like doing magical damage. If the majority of the subclass features weren't going to apply, why did they even make it a Beastmaster? It could have just been another subclass altogether. It just doesn't make sense.
Strength-wise, you're right that it's a higher baseline. But it's also harder to squeeze any more damage out of it. The beast doesn't get +1/2/3 weapons, it doesn't get Hunter's Mark, it doesn't get GWM or Sharpshooter or any other item or feat bonuses. In a game with low/no magic items and no feats allowed, this will be a great choice. Otherwise it needs what it gets to remain relevant as other classes access new resources to improve their damage output.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Technically, they do benefit from the Moon Sickle, but only when the Ranger is using it. Of course, that means the Ranger themselves is lacking either a decent weapon or a shield, but it’s still technically a way.
I see nothing in the Primal companion or moon sickle that would suggest this is true. (unless your referring to when the companion is healed) the beast does not count as a ranger spell attack or a spell dc. Unless I'm missing something huge.
The beast uses your spell attack bonus to hit. So it gets slightly more accurate, and that’s about it.
I did miss a part because I haven't read the Tasha's beast stat blocks in a while (so I remembered the UA I think) but.....
Moon sickle
This silver-bladed sickle glimmers softly with moonlight. While holding this magic weapon, you gain a bonus to attack and damage rolls made with it, and you gain a bonus to spell attack rolls and the saving throw DCs of your druid and ranger spells. The bonus is determined by the weapon’s rarity. In addition, you can use the sickle as a spellcasting focus for your druid and ranger spells.
The sickle says you gain the bonus when you make an roll for a ranger spell. Does it change the spell attack modifier or just the roll? Pedantic but I think its an important question. This brings up a whole lot I've never considered about the wording. Now I need to do a deep rules dive. You may be right.
In comparison Artificer's "enhanced arcane focus" and "wand of the warmage" just say spell attack rolls and don't call out a specific spell list. I've always seen that treated as spell attack modifier change (which may or may not be true). Even ring of spell storing "says attack bonus" not attack "spell attack modifier" showing clear distinction between the roll and the modifier.
After looking the phb for each class's spell trait clearly defines spell attack modifier. --- "Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier" and the stat block directly references this term. So the only way this would work is if the magic item is considered an exception to the general rule(defined term).
I’m sure I have “no idea what you’re talking about”.
Let me put this to rest doing something called "READING TEXT and Understanding English Referencing"
First, the original Beast Master:
The Beast Master archetype embodies a friendship between the civilized races and the beasts of the wild. United in focus, beast and ranger fight the monsters that threaten civilization and the wilderness alike.
Ranger’s Companion
At 3rd level, you gain a beast companion that accompanies you on your adventures and is trained to fight alongside you. Choose a beast that is no larger than Medium and that has a challenge rating of 1/4 or lower. Add your proficiency bonus to the beast’s AC, attack rolls, and damage rolls, as well as to any saving throws and skills it is proficient in. Its hit point maximum equals the hit point number in its stat block or four times your ranger level, whichever is higher. Like any creature, it can spend Hit Dice during a short rest to regain hit points.
The beast obeys your commands as best as it can. It takes its turn on your initiative. On your turn, you can verbally command the beast where to move (no action required by you). You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, or Help action. If you don't issue a command, the beast takes the Dodge action. Once you have the Extra Attack feature, you can make one weapon attack yourself when you command the beast to take the Attack action.
If you are incapacitated or absent, the beast acts on its own, focusing on protecting you and itself. The beast never requires your command to use its reaction, such as when making an opportunity attack.
While traveling through your favored terrain with only the beast, you can move stealthily at a normal pace.
If the beast dies, you can obtain a new companion by spending 8 hours magically bonding with a beast that isn’t hostile to you and that meets the requirements.
Exceptional Training
Beginning at 7th level, on any of your turns when your beast companion doesn’t attack, you can use a bonus action to command the beast to take the Dash, Disengage, or Help action on its turn.
In addition, the beast's attacks now count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.
Bestial Fury
Starting at 11th level, when you command your beast companion to take the Attack action, the beast can make two attacks, or it can take the Multiattack action if it has that action.
Share Spells
Beginning at 15th level, when you cast a spell targeting yourself, you can also affect your beast companion with the spell if the beast is within 30 feet of you.
Now what Tasha's says:
The Beast Master in the Player’s Handbook forms a mystical bond with an animal. As an alternative, a Beast Master can take the feature below to form a bond with a special primal beast instead.
Primal Companion
3rd-level Beast Master feature, which replaces the Ranger’s Companion feature
You magically summon a primal beast, which draws strength from your bond with nature. The beast is friendly to you and your companions and obeys your commands. Choose its stat block—Beast of the Land, Beast of the Sea, or Beast of the Sky—which uses your proficiency bonus (PB) in several places. You also determine the kind of animal the beast is, choosing a kind appropriate for the stat block. Whatever kind you choose, the beast bears primal markings, indicating its mystical origin.
In combat, the beast acts during your turn. It can move and use its reaction on its own, but the only action it takes is the Dodge action, unless you take a bonus action on your turn to command it to take another action. That action can be one in its stat block or some other action. You can also sacrifice one of your attacks when you take the Attack action to command the beast to take the Attack action. If you are incapacitated, the beast can take any action of its choice, not just Dodge.
If the beast has died within the last hour, you can use your action to touch it and expend a spell slot of 1st level or higher. The beast returns to life after 1 minute with all its hit points restored.
When you finish a long rest, you can summon a different primal beast. The new beast appears in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of you, and you choose its stat block and appearance. If you already have a beast from this feature, it vanishes when the new beast appears. The beast also vanishes if you die.
When you take Beast master you can go PBH or TCE. If you chose PBH you get "Ranger’s Companion, Exceptional Training, Bestial Fury and Share Spells".
If you chose Tasha's options, you are still choseing Beast master but get "
Ranger’s CompanionPrimal Companion, Exceptional Training, Bestial Fury and Share Spells".Remember, "At 3rd level, you gain a beast companion" because you are forming a bond with a BEAST and those abilities are now assuming you have a "beast companion". But what happens when you are given the option to "form a bond with a special primal beast instead". Due to the INSTEAD you now are forming a bond with a Primal Companion therefore all references that once stated your "Beast companion" should now be replaced (Primal Companion, 3rd-level Beast Master feature, which replaces the Ranger’s Companion feature) with Primal Companion.
Just like as if you wrote a paper on a Man (Beast companion) and refereed to them "He/him", and then someone says "REPLACE Man with Woman (Primal Companion)" you wouldn't leave the "He/him"s in the paper because that is not correct grammar after the replacement happened.
You can find my published homebrew Spells here.
Maybe. Everything in Tasha's is a power creep in the classes and subclasses, so I'm not surprised or against the rest of the subclass abilities working for/on the primal beast. I do think the words do not mean what several of you think they mean. For me, RAW is not law, but I do read the specific words used very differently.
I don’t think a TCoE Beastmaster needs necessarily to focus in Wisdom. It’s perfect viable to have DEX 18 and WIS 16 at level 4 and your companion would be attacking with a +5. It’s like a bonus action attack from PAM, TWF or CBE, but you don’t need to spend a feet or commit to a bad fighting style.
An Archer Beastmaster Ranger with a Sky Beast would cause very reliable damage having the defensive benefit of ranged combat. And I’m not even considering Sharpshooter, Hunter’s Mark and other things — Entangle would be an amazing spell for them.