I like the idea of a satyr card shark. Sort of a bard without all the spells, his main weapons would be daggers. Throwing daggers and cards up the sleeves.
Does the attack of the cards trigger sneak attack damage and then adds the adtional one for the random effect, or is it just for when it states on the random card?
My favorite gambit involves the dragonchess set...the ability to give an ally bonus damage equal to your level, while you still get to benefit from your Sneak Attack, is a potent combination. Likewise, the Griffon acts as a superior bonus-action "Disengage", giving you a bit more speed for a retreat. "Sylvan" is a bit tricky to use right, but it can help aid your frontline melee allies, I wager.
Visually, I picture the spectral apparition of the chess pieces when you use these abilities.
This seems to be good for a "tactician" or "mastermind" Rogue (ironic, considering we already have one of those), but it makes for a character who enjoys analyzing combat and figuring out the right time to use an ability.
Since this seems to be a very "Charisma" based subclass, an "Entertainer" would make for a good character...especially that "Shifting the Odds" feature: I imagine a stage performer, grinning and taking a bow, before disappearing with a flourish in a puff of smoke...
These could also make for a cool, cowboy / outlaw character...especially with the Playing Cards.
Everybody expects the outlaw to go for their gun or blade...nobody expects them to toss the cards from the poker table like ninja stars.
Hells...you could even make a ninja character with this subclass...throwing blades with tricky effects, disappearing in a puff of smoke...
I mean, twisted fate's backstory is that he was taught by his family to read people, and he was suspected of cheating, but no-one knew how. He is just very perceptive.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
personally i like the wild card rogue for it have a flare that for me honestly works with Sleight of Hand and i can se that sub class will be fun to have in any party's
I love the idea of a wildcard rogue but holey shnikeys is it unbalanced. It COULD be good, but there's a lot of fine tuning and editing that needs to happen with it.
For instance, loaded dice should NOT be equivalent to your sneak attack pool. By high levels the rogue would literally have twice as many dice (10) as a maxed out lore bard for an ability that is cutting words by any other name, and able to throw not 1, but 3 dice.
The pool should be charisma mod times per day, minimum of 1, just like all other abilities similar to it. The loaded dice at level 1 thrown should be max of 1D6 per use, 2D6 per use in T2, and 3D6 in T3 and 4D6 in T4. This scales the ability with ancestral guardian's spirit shield ability.
I love the throwing card ability but it should have the same range as daggers. 20/60 is sufficient. Also, the abilities of the card are all pretty cool thematically but incredibly overpowered for a level 3.
Blade: Doing half your sneak attack damage roll automatically on the next turn makes this potentially the most powerful damage over time ability per level. If you're looking at scaling then consider it doing similar damage to a weapon of wounding, which the card is basically doing. Constitution saving throw or the creature's wound bleeds further for an additional D4. Or just make it do an additional D4 damage.
Shackle is a single target slow: Half movement, can't multi-attack. The only thing it doesn't do is give them disadvantage on dex saves. Reducing movement speed should be enough for this ability, and maybe even impose disadvantage on dexterity saving throws for the next turn only.
Heart: This basically makes it a ranged vampiric touch. Making the hitpoints earned in excess become temp HP makes this incredibly unbalanced. Let's say you're level 4, you crit for 2D4 +3 dex + 4D6 and you roll really well. You essentially double your hitpoint total. Bosses don't have much more than 40-50hp at this level. Change this to a temp hitpoint gain that scales much like false life. 1D4 in T1, increasing by 1D4 per tier.
Wild Ace could be more fun than, "Choose one of the other three!" like...I don't know, either change the damage to a magic type that you roll for (Poison, lightning, thunder, radiant, etc.) or add a D4 damage of that random type.
Shifting the odds is more powerful and longer range than thunderstep. It also doesn't seem to fit a mostly non magic character. A once a day teleport/invisibility combo much like Archfey Warlock makes this more balanced. Make it one bonus action to use.
Holy hell is twist of fate broken at any level. DM rolls a 21 initiative for the dragon. Rogue rolls a 3+dex = 8 at level 13. The rest of the party rolls above a 10. Your BBEG encounter ends before your BBEG gets a turn. How about this instead: Once per long rest you can give yourself and charisma modifier number of friendly creatures advantage on an initiative roll. A nice once a day buff for the party that isn't broken, and it still leaves results up to the dice.
The level 17 ability feels like it's built more for a Paladin than a Rogue. All of the rogue's wild card gambit abilities should be short rest recharges instead of long rest.
Additionally, with joker's being wild the roll for what happens should also be random to keep with the theme of being a wildcard rogue. Roll a D8 and decide what the ability is. Here's my sample.
1. Gain the ability to cast fireball at 7th level once centered on yourself using your charisma modifier for your spell save DC. (Fitting for rolling a 1)
2. Gain 3 additional sneak attack dice for the next minute.
3. Gain the effects of the haste spell, no concentration required.
4. Gain the effects of a greater invisibility spell, no concentration required.
5. Gain the effects of the far step spell, no concentration required.
6. Cast Bigby's hand at 5th level, no concentration required.
7. Gain the ability to cast Steel wind strike once. Roll with advantage when making your spell attack.
8. Jackpot! Choose one of the abilities.
Anyway, these are my thoughts on the class. I think it could be really fun but as it's posted in the UA it's broken.
Does the attack of the cards trigger sneak attack damage and then adds the adtional one for the random effect, or is it just for when it states on the random card?
I disagree with the loaded dice argument. It is fine as is. A lot of good features in UA are lost thanks to editing.
They're lost because they aren't balanced. Most are overpowered and when the hard math is done on the ability or when it's put up against a comparable ability, they need to be roughly equal.
I disagree with the loaded dice argument. It is fine as is. A lot of good features in UA are lost thanks to editing.
They're lost because they aren't balanced. Most are overpowered and when the hard math is done on the ability or when it's put up against a comparable ability, they need to be roughly equal.
That's quite a naive way of thinking considering they kept plenty other unbalanced things.
How is it naive? Most things end up balanced by official publication. Grave cleric from UA to Xanathar's went from unbalanced to balanced. Same with Shepard druid and Shadow Sorcerer.
Hexblade is probably the lone UA that made it to the book without proper balancing. Aside from hexblade being front loaded from levels 1 to 3, what else would you consider being an imbalance that carried over from UA to a book?
I disagree with the loaded dice argument. It is fine as is. A lot of good features in UA are lost thanks to editing.
They're lost because they aren't balanced. Most are overpowered and when the hard math is done on the ability or when it's put up against a comparable ability, they need to be roughly equal.
That's quite a naive way of thinking considering they kept plenty other unbalanced things.
How is it naive? Most things end up balanced by official publication. Grave cleric from UA to Xanathar's went from unbalanced to balanced. Same with Shepard druid and Shadow Sorcerer.
Hexblade is probably the lone UA that made it to the book without proper balancing. Aside from hexblade being front loaded from levels 1 to 3, what else would you consider being an imbalance that carried over from UA to a book?
The subclasses in EGTW didn’t go through UA. They are powerful, yes, but people love them because of it. Players like feeling that they have some sort of great power, advantage, or control over something in the game besides their character’s personalities and responses.
Yeah this is seriously off topic. These are not UA subclasses, and never have been.
Besides, as was mentioned plenty of balanced subclasses have made it though UA, and several haven't. That's the nature of games, not everything is going to come out right, but at least none of the subclasses are game-breaking on their own. WoTC have done a pretty big time considering they refuse to patch classes/subclasses after they are officially released except for minor errata tweaks.
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if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
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The new Bilgewater adventure gives us the wild card rogue, which pairs very well with charlatan background. What are your ideas for characters?
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
I like the idea of a satyr card shark. Sort of a bard without all the spells, his main weapons would be daggers. Throwing daggers and cards up the sleeves.
Does the attack of the cards trigger sneak attack damage and then adds the adtional one for the random effect, or is it just for when it states on the random card?
btw is the card attack an action, or part of an attack action?
My favorite gambit involves the dragonchess set...the ability to give an ally bonus damage equal to your level, while you still get to benefit from your Sneak Attack, is a potent combination. Likewise, the Griffon acts as a superior bonus-action "Disengage", giving you a bit more speed for a retreat. "Sylvan" is a bit tricky to use right, but it can help aid your frontline melee allies, I wager.
Visually, I picture the spectral apparition of the chess pieces when you use these abilities.
This seems to be good for a "tactician" or "mastermind" Rogue (ironic, considering we already have one of those), but it makes for a character who enjoys analyzing combat and figuring out the right time to use an ability.
Since this seems to be a very "Charisma" based subclass, an "Entertainer" would make for a good character...especially that "Shifting the Odds" feature: I imagine a stage performer, grinning and taking a bow, before disappearing with a flourish in a puff of smoke...
These could also make for a cool, cowboy / outlaw character...especially with the Playing Cards.
Everybody expects the outlaw to go for their gun or blade...nobody expects them to toss the cards from the poker table like ninja stars.
Hells...you could even make a ninja character with this subclass...throwing blades with tricky effects, disappearing in a puff of smoke...
I took the Wild card ability as not a weapon attack. So it wouldn't add sneak attack other than when the ability adds it for you.
It is an action to use the ability.
I mean, twisted fate's backstory is that he was taught by his family to read people, and he was suspected of cheating, but no-one knew how. He is just very perceptive.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
personally i like the wild card rogue for it have a flare that for me honestly works with Sleight of Hand and i can se that sub class will be fun to have in any party's
I love the idea of a wildcard rogue but holey shnikeys is it unbalanced. It COULD be good, but there's a lot of fine tuning and editing that needs to happen with it.
For instance, loaded dice should NOT be equivalent to your sneak attack pool. By high levels the rogue would literally have twice as many dice (10) as a maxed out lore bard for an ability that is cutting words by any other name, and able to throw not 1, but 3 dice.
The pool should be charisma mod times per day, minimum of 1, just like all other abilities similar to it. The loaded dice at level 1 thrown should be max of 1D6 per use, 2D6 per use in T2, and 3D6 in T3 and 4D6 in T4. This scales the ability with ancestral guardian's spirit shield ability.
I love the throwing card ability but it should have the same range as daggers. 20/60 is sufficient. Also, the abilities of the card are all pretty cool thematically but incredibly overpowered for a level 3.
Blade: Doing half your sneak attack damage roll automatically on the next turn makes this potentially the most powerful damage over time ability per level. If you're looking at scaling then consider it doing similar damage to a weapon of wounding, which the card is basically doing. Constitution saving throw or the creature's wound bleeds further for an additional D4. Or just make it do an additional D4 damage.
Shackle is a single target slow: Half movement, can't multi-attack. The only thing it doesn't do is give them disadvantage on dex saves. Reducing movement speed should be enough for this ability, and maybe even impose disadvantage on dexterity saving throws for the next turn only.
Heart: This basically makes it a ranged vampiric touch. Making the hitpoints earned in excess become temp HP makes this incredibly unbalanced. Let's say you're level 4, you crit for 2D4 +3 dex + 4D6 and you roll really well. You essentially double your hitpoint total. Bosses don't have much more than 40-50hp at this level. Change this to a temp hitpoint gain that scales much like false life. 1D4 in T1, increasing by 1D4 per tier.
Wild Ace could be more fun than, "Choose one of the other three!" like...I don't know, either change the damage to a magic type that you roll for (Poison, lightning, thunder, radiant, etc.) or add a D4 damage of that random type.
Shifting the odds is more powerful and longer range than thunderstep. It also doesn't seem to fit a mostly non magic character. A once a day teleport/invisibility combo much like Archfey Warlock makes this more balanced. Make it one bonus action to use.
Holy hell is twist of fate broken at any level. DM rolls a 21 initiative for the dragon. Rogue rolls a 3+dex = 8 at level 13. The rest of the party rolls above a 10. Your BBEG encounter ends before your BBEG gets a turn. How about this instead: Once per long rest you can give yourself and charisma modifier number of friendly creatures advantage on an initiative roll. A nice once a day buff for the party that isn't broken, and it still leaves results up to the dice.
The level 17 ability feels like it's built more for a Paladin than a Rogue. All of the rogue's wild card gambit abilities should be short rest recharges instead of long rest.
Additionally, with joker's being wild the roll for what happens should also be random to keep with the theme of being a wildcard rogue. Roll a D8 and decide what the ability is. Here's my sample.
1. Gain the ability to cast fireball at 7th level once centered on yourself using your charisma modifier for your spell save DC. (Fitting for rolling a 1)
2. Gain 3 additional sneak attack dice for the next minute.
3. Gain the effects of the haste spell, no concentration required.
4. Gain the effects of a greater invisibility spell, no concentration required.
5. Gain the effects of the far step spell, no concentration required.
6. Cast Bigby's hand at 5th level, no concentration required.
7. Gain the ability to cast Steel wind strike once. Roll with advantage when making your spell attack.
8. Jackpot! Choose one of the abilities.
Anyway, these are my thoughts on the class. I think it could be really fun but as it's posted in the UA it's broken.
Here was what I came up with, the luckiest girl in the world:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/profile/IamSposta/characters/32979668
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Does the attack of the cards trigger sneak attack damage and then adds the adtional one for the random effect, or is it just for when it states on the random card?
I disagree with the loaded dice argument. It is fine as is. A lot of good features in UA are lost thanks to editing.
They're lost because they aren't balanced. Most are overpowered and when the hard math is done on the ability or when it's put up against a comparable ability, they need to be roughly equal.
How is it naive? Most things end up balanced by official publication. Grave cleric from UA to Xanathar's went from unbalanced to balanced. Same with Shepard druid and Shadow Sorcerer.
Hexblade is probably the lone UA that made it to the book without proper balancing. Aside from hexblade being front loaded from levels 1 to 3, what else would you consider being an imbalance that carried over from UA to a book?
Y’all do realize that the Wild Card was not a WotC product and never went through UA, right?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
The subclasses in EGTW didn’t go through UA. They are powerful, yes, but people love them because of it. Players like feeling that they have some sort of great power, advantage, or control over something in the game besides their character’s personalities and responses.
Yeah this is seriously off topic. These are not UA subclasses, and never have been.
Besides, as was mentioned plenty of balanced subclasses have made it though UA, and several haven't. That's the nature of games, not everything is going to come out right, but at least none of the subclasses are game-breaking on their own. WoTC have done a pretty big time considering they refuse to patch classes/subclasses after they are officially released except for minor errata tweaks.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.