I strongly suspect that the promotion period was extended because sales were not as good as expected / hoped-for. :(
This is not a good reason to punish customers who took a chance on your product.
Punishing customers who took a chance on your product is actually one of the last things you’d want to do if that product was not selling well.
If you honestly think that other people being able to still obtain something you already have, is somehow punishing you ... then, Sir or Madame, I suggest the problem lays with you, and not DNDBeyond.
🐃💩
They bought the book during the period in which the bonuses were on offer. The fact that they bought it as part of a bundle instead of as an individual purchase should not preclude them from getting their free bonuses
I strongly suspect that the promotion period was extended because sales were not as good as expected / hoped-for. :(
This is not a good reason to punish customers who took a chance on your product.
Punishing customers who took a chance on your product is actually one of the last things you’d want to do if that product was not selling well.
If you honestly think that other people being able to still obtain something you already have, is somehow punishing you ... then, Sir or Madame, I suggest the problem lays with you, and not DNDBeyond.
That is not my issue. Or only partially my issue.
Let’s say you wanted to preorder a car (to reference an earlier example) before it went on the market. To offset the fact that you don’t know if this a good car or not, the company selling the car says they’ll give you unique coat of paint as an exclusive reward.
This car is not selling very well, so now, after the car has gone and sale, they’re giving that coat of paint to anybody who buys that car as part of a specific bundle or promotion.
Wouldn’t that feel bad? I’m sorry if my tone got too accusatory previously, my position is simply that it feels bad.
I also don’t think the preorder bonuses should be classified as free goodies. Their value is the same as the value you lose when you buy an untested product, because it is the only thing making up for buying this untested project. Furthermore, the Rime bonus now includes digital dice. Since similar dice have a monetary value, this shows that D&DBeyond thinks the preorder bonus has a monetary value.
But guess what? When you give more people something, its value goes down. D&DBeyond is giving more people something I purchased, thus lowering the value of my purchase.
If this was in good faith, like if they had said “We may distribute these preorder bonuses at a later date,” I may have been fine with it. But they called the bonuses “exclusive” character sheet backgrounds, frames, etc. They were not.
It’s not like the bonuses even have a value exceeding $5. It isn’t like we’re dealing with large numbers of money here.
It just feels bad, and I hope you can understand that. I’m not accusing D&DBeyond of anything or saying that I think there’s a problem. It just feels bad.
I strongly suspect that the promotion period was extended because sales were not as good as expected / hoped-for. :(
This is not a good reason to punish customers who took a chance on your product.
Punishing customers who took a chance on your product is actually one of the last things you’d want to do if that product was not selling well.
If you honestly think that other people being able to still obtain something you already have, is somehow punishing you ... then, Sir or Madame, I suggest the problem lays with you, and not DNDBeyond.
🐃💩
They bought the book during the period in which the bonuses were on offer. The fact that they bought it as part of a bundle instead of as an individual purchase should not preclude them from getting their free bonuses
I’m not saying they shouldn’t.
Literally all I am saying is that it feels bad that the “exclusive bonuses” were made available to those who didn’t preorder.
I’m not saying people should be denied things that were promised to them, because they shouldn’t.
All I am saying is that feels bad that they offered the bonuses as part of the promotion in the first place.
D&DBeyond is giving more people something I purchased, thus lowering the value of my purchase.
And I completely disagree that the value of your purchase has been lowered. You have everything you paid for.
If you only find value in some of that, through denying others access to them ... again, I do not feel that is a problem with DNDBeyond.
I would normally tend to agree with you. A product with a fixed price should not have its value effected if more people own it.
My copy of Xanathar’s Guide is not worth less because more people have it.
My copy of an item with a nebulous value such as a collectible like, to go for a ridiculous example, a mint Alpha Black Lotus, is often determined by its exclusivity. If there were more mint Alpha Black Lotuses, they would be worth less. These are worth more because when you get one, you join the ‘cool, exclusive club.’
It doesn’t matter what our respective opinions are on this type of market because by creating a limited-time, exclusive product. By preordering, you can become part of the ‘cool, exclusive club.’
It doesn’t matter whether morally we disagree with how exclusivity value works, because clearly D&DBeyond does, or at least did.
I’m going to try to quickly distill the logic behind my argument.
When you are trying to sell a product, what you are saying in an official sales pitch for a product is you trying to prove its value.
When you call a product you are trying to sell “exclusive” in an official sales pitch, you are saying the value of the product comes, at least partially, from its exclusivity.
If the only descriptor of a product’s value is that it is exclusive, it’s only value comes fromits exclusivity.
When value comes from exclusivity, that value comes from the fact that you are one of few people to have it, thus making it seem more special, and thus more valuable.
If you sell more copies of a product, it becomes less exclusive.
If a product’s value is tied to its exclusivity and it loses exclusivity, it loses value.
The MOoT preorder bonus has lost value due to losing exclusivity, which was caused by D&DBeyond.
D&DBeyond caused a product I purchased from them to lose value.
I’m going to try to quickly distill the logic behind my argument.
When you are trying to sell a product, what you are saying in an official sales pitch for a product is you trying to prove its value.
When you call a product you are trying to sell “exclusive” in an official sales pitch, you are saying the value of the product comes, at least partially, from its exclusivity.
If the only descriptor of a product’s value is that it is exclusive, it’s only value comes fromits exclusivity.
When value comes from exclusivity, that value comes from the fact that you are one of few people to have it, thus making it seem more special, and thus more valuable.
If you sell more copies of a product, it becomes less exclusive.
If a product’s value is tied to its exclusivity and it loses exclusivity, it loses value.
The MOoT preorder bonus has lost value due to losing exclusivity, which was caused by D&DBeyond.
D&DBeyond caused a product I purchased from them to lose value.
This feels bad.
I would agree with you if you could sell your exclusive item. But you can't. Your item has no value to anyone but you. I can't offer you $100 for it. It is worthless to anyone but you. If I also have it it doesn't make it worth less money. You paid for the book. You got the other stuff for free. If I buy the book a year from now I am paying the same price you did 2 weeks ago. The book is the product. There is no resale value in any of this. So the value of your exclusive items doesn't change based on the number of people who have them.
All that said, it doesn't change the fact that they extended the offer and therefore it should not matter if someone buys a bundle or a single book during the offer, they should get it. I am not asking DDB to give me the Wildemount exclusive stuff since that offer is over. Just the exclusive stuff that was available when I obtained my legendary bundle. That is more than fair. Had I purchased the MOoT book and then the bundle I may have spent a couple of bucks more and I would have had the exclusive content. Had I purchased the bundle a year ago, and then purchased MOot Today, I would have spent no more money on MOoT then if I purchased the full bundle today due to the discount and I would still have the exclusive content. This is just a scenario they simply didn't think about and need to fix. It makes no sense.
If you sell more copies of a product, it becomes less exclusive.
Which is nonsense, because there was not a limited supply.
If every man Jack of us had bought our copies during the pre-order period, like you did? Those items would be no less exclusive than they are right now. The same number of people would "own" them.
Would you still be whining about the lower value of your exclusives then ...?
If not ... then don't complain about it now, because the effect is the same.
...
True exclusivity requires there to be a limited number, which is set before any are sold, given away, or otherwise distributed.
Fir example ... the webcomic Schlock Mercenary. The artist, Howard Taylor, ran a kickstarter to produce "Challenge Coins", and among the higher-tier rewards were numbered versions of the central coin. Howard kept #000 for himself. He kept coins #001-010 to give out to friends, family, and a few especially-helpful fans.
The top tier of pledges was $100, and included a random coin numbered 011 to 015. There were only five of those pledges available. Those are properly and truly "exclusive" things.
Oh, and: I have coin #011, by the way.
...
The kickstarter proved to be so successful, that the first run of 1,000 coins. So he added a "Series 2", then a "series 3", and I think they got deep into "Series 4" by the end of the pledge period. They're up to Series 5 or 6 by now.
But my "Series 1, Coin 011" is just as exclusive today, as it was the day it arrived - because there aren't any more Series 1 coins being made, nor never will be again.
THAT is "exclusivity that imparts value".
The sort of "exclusive" that the MOoT extras confer is so watered down, it doesn't even share a solar orbit with true and proper exclusivity.
If you sell more copies of a product, it becomes less exclusive.
Which is nonsense, because there was not a limited supply.
If every man Jack of us had bought our copies during the pre-order period, like you did? Those items would be no less exclusive than they are right now. The same number of people would "own" them.
Would you still be whining about the lower value of your exclusives then ...?
If not ... then don't complain about it now, because the effect is the same.
...
True exclusivity requires there to be a limited number, which is set before any are sold, given away, or otherwise distributed.
Fir example ... the webcomic Schlock Mercenary. The artist, Howard Taylor, ran a kickstarter to produce "Challenge Coins", and among the higher-tier rewards were numbered versions of the central coin. Howard kept #000 for himself. He kept coins #001-010 to give out to friends, family, and a few especially-helpful fans.
The top tier of pledges was $100, and included a random coin numbered 011 to 015. There were only five of those pledges available. Those are properly and truly "exclusive" things.
Oh, and: I have coin #011, by the way.
...
The kickstarter proved to be so successful, that the first run of 1,000 coins. So he added a "Series 2", then a "series 3", and I think they got deep into "Series 4" by the end of the pledge period. They're up to Series 5 or 6 by now.
But my "Series 1, Coin 011" is just as exclusive today, as it was the day it arrived - because there aren't any more Series 1 coins being made, nor never will be again.
THAT is "exclusivity that imparts value".
The sort of "exclusive" that the MOoT extras confer is so watered down, it doesn't even share a solar orbit with true and proper exclusivity.
Well, yeah.
You also can't, you know, sell them, so their value doesn't really matter unless you're thinking about the worth of your purchase in terms of item quality.
But that doesn't actually matter because they are trying to simulate exclusivity. They aren't actually exclusive but they say they are, so we have to treat them as though they are.
Anyway, the number of suggestions to make preorder bonuses purchasable means that they still are a bit too exclusive for quite a few peoples' tastes. I'm not saying the system is good, but at this point, they should either change the way the bonuses work and make that transparent with future releases or stop throwing around words they can't live up to like 'exclusive.'
Finally, let's say you made a million [insert limited edition item here]s and called them exclusive. Sure, they wouldn't be very exclusive. But if you made a few million more, that would go down the drain just a bit more, and that would feel bad. I guess this is my original point in its most "reasonable" and "understandable" form.
I'm just saying that preordering a product "costs" more than buying that product for the same price later, but that extra cost is in opportunity. You could spend your money on something you know is good, but instead, you're taking a risk. That is an extra price, a somewhat slight one, but it's a one that the preorder bonuses made up for.
If the preorder bonuses for a book went on sale as their own product for, say, $2, I would be fine with that, because instead of filling the opportunity cost with exclusivity value, now it has tangible value: $2.
But instead, we've made them available as part of a bundle for the same price. If you buy the book a special way, you get them for free. They still have a tangible value: free. The nebulous and half-assed exclusivity (which even if it wasn't amazing still had a value of at least $1-2 in stuff and bragging rights and an unknown but real, and probably somewhat small, cap of copies leading to said nebulous exclusivity) has been taken away and replaced with $0.
My problem is not "I want other people not to be able to have the stuff I have."
I didn't even have a problem.
To paraphrase my first post: "I just feel bad because I now feel like I haven't quite gotten my money's worth due to the end of limited exclusivity of the bonuses. [Insert rant that explains a facet of my logic] [Insert generically semi-aggressive statements] In conclusion, I just feel bad because I now feel like I haven't quite gotten my money's worth due to the end of limited exclusivity of the bonuses."
That was not me ever saying "I want other people not to be able to have the stuff I have." To be fair, I later said that if D&DBeyond was going to create a limited-exclusivity model, they should at least stick to it, but most of my explanation of their system was just to explain where I felt I had lost value. If they had changed the form of that value, by making preorder bonuses purchasable as cosmetics, I would have felt like I still got my value and it would have ended the limited exclusivity that quite a few people (including myself) dislike.
My post was about a specific element of how they handled this and how it felt disingenuous to what I was told when I bought the item in question. This was mostly just an explanation to back up me saying I felt bad. It was never a complaint about people being able to access preorder content. That would indeed have been dumb.
I guess this is what happens when you type while tired, I guess.
On a side note, there was indeed a limited supply. The supply cutoff ended when the preorder period ended. It's just that there was a somewhat larger supply then the expensive examples we've been citing, which was fine because the ended value of preorder bonuses was very small.
You are aware that they didn't ope up for everyone who purchases MOoT in the future to get these bonuses, they simply moved the pre-order deadline to 7/20? I think that is where you argument and "I feel like things have been taken from me fails." because it is still exclusive, however, however they simply extended the date of the pre-order period due to the physically book release date changing.
That is I thinking the disingenuous about your side of this. You are very adamant about how you feel cheated because more people are able to get the pre-order stuff yet are failing to look at the facts. The cutoff date was moved therefore the supply has not ended, nor has the supply cutoff ended. So if people who purchase the book after 7/20 still are allowed to have the pre-order bonuses than your argument is valid. Prior to that date you are don't have a leg to stand on.
You are aware that they didn't ope up for everyone who purchases MOoT in the future to get these bonuses, they simply moved the pre-order deadline to 7/20? I think that is where you argument and "I feel like things have been taken from me fails." because it is still exclusive, however, however they simply extended the date of the pre-order period due to the physically book release date changing.
That is I thinking the disingenuous about your side of this. You are very adamant about how you feel cheated because more people are able to get the pre-order stuff yet are failing to look at the facts. The cutoff date was moved therefore the supply has not ended, nor has the supply cutoff ended. So if people who purchase the book after 7/20 still are allowed to have the pre-order bonuses than your argument is valid. Prior to that date you are don't have a leg to stand on.
I suppose my side of this is that there was no announcement (at least none that I saw) that clarified this. Again, I do not dislike that more people can get the bonus. I just think that they should have done it differently, such as by just selling the preorder bonuses.
Additionally, this is not them moving the preorder deadline. The book has released, “so the moving preorder deadline” is not what they are doing. If they had done that and announced it, that again would be fine.
We are talking about a promotion to enable you to get the preorder bonuses when you get MOoT through a bundle. Again, I would be fine with them doing something similar. They could announce that if you have a certain bundle, you get all preorder bonuses for books in that bundle. But the key here would be announcing it and making it for all books.
Also, the promotion is, to my knowledge, currently ongoing.
Those are the facts I know from this thread. If those are wrong, somebody please correct me and provide a source.
You are very adamant about how you feel cheated because more people are able to get the pre-order stuff
This is false. This is my argument in the simplest form, or at least a recap of my original argument, as according to my previous comment:
“I just feel bad because I now feel like I haven't quite gotten my money's worth due to the end of limited exclusivity of the bonuses. [Insert rant that explains a facet of my logic] [Insert generically semi-aggressive statements] In conclusion, I just feel bad because I now feel like I haven't quite gotten my money's worth due to the end of limited exclusivity of the bonuses.”
My secondary point is that I wish they would allow people to access the preorder bonuses in a way that still provides value to the person who preordered.
You are aware that they didn't ope up for everyone who purchases MOoT in the future to get these bonuses, they simply moved the pre-order deadline to 7/20? I think that is where you argument and "I feel like things have been taken from me fails." because it is still exclusive, however, however they simply extended the date of the pre-order period due to the physically book release date changing.
That is I thinking the disingenuous about your side of this. You are very adamant about how you feel cheated because more people are able to get the pre-order stuff yet are failing to look at the facts. The cutoff date was moved therefore the supply has not ended, nor has the supply cutoff ended. So if people who purchase the book after 7/20 still are allowed to have the pre-order bonuses than your argument is valid. Prior to that date you are don't have a leg to stand on.
I suppose my side of this is that there was no announcement (at least none that I saw) that clarified this. Again, I do not dislike that more people can get the bonus. I just think that they should have done it differently, such as by just selling the preorder bonuses.
Additionally, this is not them moving the preorder deadline. The book has released, “so the moving preorder deadline” is not what they are doing. If they had done that and announced it, that again would be fine.
We are talking about a promotion to enable you to get the preorder bonuses when you get MOoT through a bundle. Again, I would be fine with them doing something similar. They could announce that if you have a certain bundle, you get all preorder bonuses for books in that bundle. But the key here would be announcing it and making it for all books.
Also, the promotion is, to my knowledge, currently ongoing.
Those are the facts I know from this thread. If those are wrong, somebody please correct me and provide a source.
Well, it was announce via Dev updates - If you by the book before 7/20 you get the pre-order bonuses. That is what the update is. The update even says "pre-order bonus extended to 7/20. So again your entire point falls with no legs to stand on because the Devs have called this a pre-order bonus extension. After 7/20 no one who buys the book has rights to obtain these bonuses. Us purchasing the book via the bundles is not what is giving us the rights to these bonuses. It that fact that we purchased the book prior to 7/20. That's it. Nothing else. I don't have the rights to any other books pre-order stuff because I bought the bundle. Why? Because that is not the technical case here those bonus periods ended. However, the bonus period for MOoT, has not ended, it ends on 7/20 as per Dev updates.
Please read that thread - because everything I said is true. They did in fact extend a pre-order bonus period. End of story. And that is why your statements are not holding up.
The promotion is still on going because the promotion was extended to 7/20 - it is currently 7/13 - so of course it is still on going!
No, I did not ... BUT: I bought the Bundle in direct response to an advertisement, which was then still current (read: still actively being paid for, on FaceBook), which promised them to anyone who bought the book "before time runs out".
Yeah. We're debating this promotion, not the extension of the preorder bonus. If this is actually just talking about the extension in vague terms then I guess I've just been an idiot this whole time.
You are aware that they didn't ope up for everyone who purchases MOoT in the future to get these bonuses, they simply moved the pre-order deadline to 7/20? I think that is where you argument and "I feel like things have been taken from me fails." because it is still exclusive, however, however they simply extended the date of the pre-order period due to the physically book release date changing.
That is I thinking the disingenuous about your side of this. You are very adamant about how you feel cheated because more people are able to get the pre-order stuff yet are failing to look at the facts. The cutoff date was moved therefore the supply has not ended, nor has the supply cutoff ended. So if people who purchase the book after 7/20 still are allowed to have the pre-order bonuses than your argument is valid. Prior to that date you are don't have a leg to stand on.
I suppose my side of this is that there was no announcement (at least none that I saw) that clarified this. Again, I do not dislike that more people can get the bonus. I just think that they should have done it differently, such as by just selling the preorder bonuses.
Additionally, this is not them moving the preorder deadline. The book has released, “so the moving preorder deadline” is not what they are doing. If they had done that and announced it, that again would be fine.
We are talking about a promotion to enable you to get the preorder bonuses when you get MOoT through a bundle. Again, I would be fine with them doing something similar. They could announce that if you have a certain bundle, you get all preorder bonuses for books in that bundle. But the key here would be announcing it and making it for all books.
Also, the promotion is, to my knowledge, currently ongoing.
Those are the facts I know from this thread. If those are wrong, somebody please correct me and provide a source.
What they have done is extended the time you can get the bonus stuff. So yes the book has been released but if you buy it before the 20th you can get the bonus material. After that date you can not. They did this due to the physical book date being pushed back and people getting their codes from their local gaming stores for the book. So the promotion ends on 7/20 so its still "exclusive". The issue that I and some others have run into is that we purchased a source or legendary bundle during this promotion and after the release of the book. So the book was included in the bundle and we did not receive the bonus material. The excuse we got from DDB is that the material is not included with bundles but that is only because the promotions normally end before the book is added to the bundle. This is a special circumstance where they have extended there promotion period.
This leaves there scenario , one of which does not give you the bonus material but it should. 1) I don't own any bundles and I buy the book today. I get the bonus material.
2) I bought a bundle some time in the past and I buy the book today. I get the bonus material.
3) I buy a bundle today which includes the book. I do NOT get the bonus material.
Its this 3rd scenario that is the real issue. Given scenario 2 gets me the bonus material, why would scenario 3 not? There is no cost difference because they give you a discount on the new book in scenario 2 so you are not saving any money buy waiting for the book to be released to buy a bundle as in scenario 3. Pax ran into this issue and they agreed to give him the bonus material as they should. I have run into this issue and am fighting to get my bonus material.
Really, what I think happened is they just messed up and didn't think about it when they extended the offer. My hope is that they fix this and anyone who has bought a source or legendary bundle since the book was released and up until 7/20 when the offer ends will get the bonus material unlocked, as they should.
The argument of should bonus material be available to everyone at any time whenever they buy a book is a different argument. I would like it but I understand why the would not. I wish they would offer it at least for a small price of $1 or $2 as you said but that is besides the point of if I and others in my situation should receive the bonus material.
Also, I'm 90% sure _Pax_ specifically was talking about a bundle promotion on Facebook.
Nope.
It was a promotion for MOoT specifically. The same promotion that's been saying the preorder bonusses are still available, through the 20th of this month.
I decided I wanted those extra goodies enough to take the plunge, and start buying books on DNDBeyond ... and, saw no reason not to get the mildly discounted rate of the Sourcebook Bundle, rather than buy it all piecemeal.
I'm disappointed in the children thinking with their greed. I thought D&D had smarter better players than that.
If you are that interested in exclusive content, I know a guy who knows a guy.
Turns out that for D&D2020, WOTC has something special up their sleeves. If you hurry now, you can be the first to shovel their parking lot for some authentic limited edition Icewind Dale: Rime of the Icemaden snowflakes. they are using a special distributor so it is a first come first served situation, but you can be assured that no two will be the same. Act now. These are unique items.
For those who preorder, they will throw in original pressed rocks all the way from Avernus. Ignore the smell of butane and barbequed ribs, I mean souls, that is just an upgrade feature for the first 100 orders. We will not be pulling this scam next year. Call now.
Accept no substitutes. The charcoal and snow you find next year will not count as exclusive collectibles.
If this doesn't interest you but you want to talk about exclusivity like it is a good thing, then just know that while I'm not out-and-out saying you are a hypocrite, . . .
🐃💩
They bought the book during the period in which the bonuses were on offer. The fact that they bought it as part of a bundle instead of as an individual purchase should not preclude them from getting their free bonuses
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
That is not my issue. Or only partially my issue.
Let’s say you wanted to preorder a car (to reference an earlier example) before it went on the market. To offset the fact that you don’t know if this a good car or not, the company selling the car says they’ll give you unique coat of paint as an exclusive reward.
This car is not selling very well, so now, after the car has gone and sale, they’re giving that coat of paint to anybody who buys that car as part of a specific bundle or promotion.
Wouldn’t that feel bad? I’m sorry if my tone got too accusatory previously, my position is simply that it feels bad.
I also don’t think the preorder bonuses should be classified as free goodies. Their value is the same as the value you lose when you buy an untested product, because it is the only thing making up for buying this untested project. Furthermore, the Rime bonus now includes digital dice. Since similar dice have a monetary value, this shows that D&DBeyond thinks the preorder bonus has a monetary value.
But guess what? When you give more people something, its value goes down. D&DBeyond is giving more people something I purchased, thus lowering the value of my purchase.
If this was in good faith, like if they had said “We may distribute these preorder bonuses at a later date,” I may have been fine with it. But they called the bonuses “exclusive” character sheet backgrounds, frames, etc. They were not.
It’s not like the bonuses even have a value exceeding $5. It isn’t like we’re dealing with large numbers of money here.
It just feels bad, and I hope you can understand that. I’m not accusing D&DBeyond of anything or saying that I think there’s a problem. It just feels bad.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t.
Literally all I am saying is that it feels bad that the “exclusive bonuses” were made available to those who didn’t preorder.
I’m not saying people should be denied things that were promised to them, because they shouldn’t.
All I am saying is that feels bad that they offered the bonuses as part of the promotion in the first place.
And I completely disagree that the value of your purchase has been lowered. You have everything you paid for.
If you only find value in some of that, through denying others access to them ... again, I do not feel that is a problem with DNDBeyond.
D&DBeyond is giving more people something I purchased, thus lowering the value of my purchase.
And I completely disagree that the value of your purchase has been lowered. You have everything you paid for.
If you only find value in some of that, through denying others access to them ... again, I do not feel that is a problem with DNDBeyond.
I would normally tend to agree with you. A product with a fixed price should not have its value effected if more people own it.
My copy of Xanathar’s Guide is not worth less because more people have it.
My copy of an item with a nebulous value such as a collectible like, to go for a ridiculous example, a mint Alpha Black Lotus, is often determined by its exclusivity. If there were more mint Alpha Black Lotuses, they would be worth less. These are worth more because when you get one, you join the ‘cool, exclusive club.’
It doesn’t matter what our respective opinions are on this type of market because by creating a limited-time, exclusive product. By preordering, you can become part of the ‘cool, exclusive club.’
It doesn’t matter whether morally we disagree with how exclusivity value works, because clearly D&DBeyond does, or at least did.
I’m going to try to quickly distill the logic behind my argument.
When you are trying to sell a product, what you are saying in an official sales pitch for a product is you trying to prove its value.
When you call a product you are trying to sell “exclusive” in an official sales pitch, you are saying the value of the product comes, at least partially, from its exclusivity.
If the only descriptor of a product’s value is that it is exclusive, it’s only value comes from its exclusivity.
When value comes from exclusivity, that value comes from the fact that you are one of few people to have it, thus making it seem more special, and thus more valuable.
If you sell more copies of a product, it becomes less exclusive.
If a product’s value is tied to its exclusivity and it loses exclusivity, it loses value.
The MOoT preorder bonus has lost value due to losing exclusivity, which was caused by D&DBeyond.
D&DBeyond caused a product I purchased from them to lose value.
This feels bad.
I would agree with you if you could sell your exclusive item. But you can't. Your item has no value to anyone but you. I can't offer you $100 for it. It is worthless to anyone but you. If I also have it it doesn't make it worth less money. You paid for the book. You got the other stuff for free. If I buy the book a year from now I am paying the same price you did 2 weeks ago. The book is the product. There is no resale value in any of this. So the value of your exclusive items doesn't change based on the number of people who have them.
All that said, it doesn't change the fact that they extended the offer and therefore it should not matter if someone buys a bundle or a single book during the offer, they should get it. I am not asking DDB to give me the Wildemount exclusive stuff since that offer is over. Just the exclusive stuff that was available when I obtained my legendary bundle. That is more than fair. Had I purchased the MOoT book and then the bundle I may have spent a couple of bucks more and I would have had the exclusive content. Had I purchased the bundle a year ago, and then purchased MOot Today, I would have spent no more money on MOoT then if I purchased the full bundle today due to the discount and I would still have the exclusive content. This is just a scenario they simply didn't think about and need to fix. It makes no sense.
Which is nonsense, because there was not a limited supply.
If every man Jack of us had bought our copies during the pre-order period, like you did? Those items would be no less exclusive than they are right now. The same number of people would "own" them.
Would you still be whining about the lower value of your exclusives then ...?
If not ... then don't complain about it now, because the effect is the same.
...
True exclusivity requires there to be a limited number, which is set before any are sold, given away, or otherwise distributed.
Fir example ... the webcomic Schlock Mercenary. The artist, Howard Taylor, ran a kickstarter to produce "Challenge Coins", and among the higher-tier rewards were numbered versions of the central coin. Howard kept #000 for himself. He kept coins #001-010 to give out to friends, family, and a few especially-helpful fans.
The top tier of pledges was $100, and included a random coin numbered 011 to 015. There were only five of those pledges available. Those are properly and truly "exclusive" things.
Oh, and: I have coin #011, by the way.
...
The kickstarter proved to be so successful, that the first run of 1,000 coins. So he added a "Series 2", then a "series 3", and I think they got deep into "Series 4" by the end of the pledge period. They're up to Series 5 or 6 by now.
But my "Series 1, Coin 011" is just as exclusive today, as it was the day it arrived - because there aren't any more Series 1 coins being made, nor never will be again.
THAT is "exclusivity that imparts value".
The sort of "exclusive" that the MOoT extras confer is so watered down, it doesn't even share a solar orbit with true and proper exclusivity.
Well, yeah.
You also can't, you know, sell them, so their value doesn't really matter unless you're thinking about the worth of your purchase in terms of item quality.
But that doesn't actually matter because they are trying to simulate exclusivity. They aren't actually exclusive but they say they are, so we have to treat them as though they are.
Anyway, the number of suggestions to make preorder bonuses purchasable means that they still are a bit too exclusive for quite a few peoples' tastes. I'm not saying the system is good, but at this point, they should either change the way the bonuses work and make that transparent with future releases or stop throwing around words they can't live up to like 'exclusive.'
Finally, let's say you made a million [insert limited edition item here]s and called them exclusive. Sure, they wouldn't be very exclusive. But if you made a few million more, that would go down the drain just a bit more, and that would feel bad. I guess this is my original point in its most "reasonable" and "understandable" form.
I'm just saying that preordering a product "costs" more than buying that product for the same price later, but that extra cost is in opportunity. You could spend your money on something you know is good, but instead, you're taking a risk. That is an extra price, a somewhat slight one, but it's a one that the preorder bonuses made up for.
If the preorder bonuses for a book went on sale as their own product for, say, $2, I would be fine with that, because instead of filling the opportunity cost with exclusivity value, now it has tangible value: $2.
But instead, we've made them available as part of a bundle for the same price. If you buy the book a special way, you get them for free. They still have a tangible value: free. The nebulous and half-assed exclusivity (which even if it wasn't amazing still had a value of at least $1-2 in stuff and bragging rights and an unknown but real, and probably somewhat small, cap of copies leading to said nebulous exclusivity) has been taken away and replaced with $0.
My problem is not "I want other people not to be able to have the stuff I have."
I didn't even have a problem.
To paraphrase my first post: "I just feel bad because I now feel like I haven't quite gotten my money's worth due to the end of limited exclusivity of the bonuses. [Insert rant that explains a facet of my logic] [Insert generically semi-aggressive statements] In conclusion, I just feel bad because I now feel like I haven't quite gotten my money's worth due to the end of limited exclusivity of the bonuses."
That was not me ever saying "I want other people not to be able to have the stuff I have." To be fair, I later said that if D&DBeyond was going to create a limited-exclusivity model, they should at least stick to it, but most of my explanation of their system was just to explain where I felt I had lost value. If they had changed the form of that value, by making preorder bonuses purchasable as cosmetics, I would have felt like I still got my value and it would have ended the limited exclusivity that quite a few people (including myself) dislike.
My post was about a specific element of how they handled this and how it felt disingenuous to what I was told when I bought the item in question. This was mostly just an explanation to back up me saying I felt bad. It was never a complaint about people being able to access preorder content. That would indeed have been dumb.
I guess this is what happens when you type while tired, I guess.
On a side note, there was indeed a limited supply. The supply cutoff ended when the preorder period ended. It's just that there was a somewhat larger supply then the expensive examples we've been citing, which was fine because the ended value of preorder bonuses was very small.
You are aware that they didn't ope up for everyone who purchases MOoT in the future to get these bonuses, they simply moved the pre-order deadline to 7/20? I think that is where you argument and "I feel like things have been taken from me fails." because it is still exclusive, however, however they simply extended the date of the pre-order period due to the physically book release date changing.
That is I thinking the disingenuous about your side of this. You are very adamant about how you feel cheated because more people are able to get the pre-order stuff yet are failing to look at the facts. The cutoff date was moved therefore the supply has not ended, nor has the supply cutoff ended. So if people who purchase the book after 7/20 still are allowed to have the pre-order bonuses than your argument is valid. Prior to that date you are don't have a leg to stand on.
I suppose my side of this is that there was no announcement (at least none that I saw) that clarified this. Again, I do not dislike that more people can get the bonus. I just think that they should have done it differently, such as by just selling the preorder bonuses.
Additionally, this is not them moving the preorder deadline. The book has released, “so the moving preorder deadline” is not what they are doing. If they had done that and announced it, that again would be fine.
We are talking about a promotion to enable you to get the preorder bonuses when you get MOoT through a bundle. Again, I would be fine with them doing something similar. They could announce that if you have a certain bundle, you get all preorder bonuses for books in that bundle. But the key here would be announcing it and making it for all books.
Also, the promotion is, to my knowledge, currently ongoing.
Those are the facts I know from this thread. If those are wrong, somebody please correct me and provide a source.
This is false. This is my argument in the simplest form, or at least a recap of my original argument, as according to my previous comment:
“I just feel bad because I now feel like I haven't quite gotten my money's worth due to the end of limited exclusivity of the bonuses. [Insert rant that explains a facet of my logic] [Insert generically semi-aggressive statements] In conclusion, I just feel bad because I now feel like I haven't quite gotten my money's worth due to the end of limited exclusivity of the bonuses.”
My secondary point is that I wish they would allow people to access the preorder bonuses in a way that still provides value to the person who preordered.
Well, it was announce via Dev updates - If you by the book before 7/20 you get the pre-order bonuses. That is what the update is. The update even says "pre-order bonus extended to 7/20. So again your entire point falls with no legs to stand on because the Devs have called this a pre-order bonus extension. After 7/20 no one who buys the book has rights to obtain these bonuses. Us purchasing the book via the bundles is not what is giving us the rights to these bonuses. It that fact that we purchased the book prior to 7/20. That's it. Nothing else. I don't have the rights to any other books pre-order stuff because I bought the bundle. Why? Because that is not the technical case here those bonus periods ended. However, the bonus period for MOoT, has not ended, it ends on 7/20 as per Dev updates.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/news-announcements/71206-dev-update-6-11-2020
Please read that thread - because everything I said is true. They did in fact extend a pre-order bonus period. End of story. And that is why your statements are not holding up.
The promotion is still on going because the promotion was extended to 7/20 - it is currently 7/13 - so of course it is still on going!
I was just asking for a source, geez.
Also, I'm 90% sure _Pax_ specifically was talking about a bundle promotion on Facebook.
Yeah. We're debating this promotion, not the extension of the preorder bonus. If this is actually just talking about the extension in vague terms then I guess I've just been an idiot this whole time.
Which knowing me is probably likely.
What they have done is extended the time you can get the bonus stuff. So yes the book has been released but if you buy it before the 20th you can get the bonus material. After that date you can not. They did this due to the physical book date being pushed back and people getting their codes from their local gaming stores for the book. So the promotion ends on 7/20 so its still "exclusive". The issue that I and some others have run into is that we purchased a source or legendary bundle during this promotion and after the release of the book. So the book was included in the bundle and we did not receive the bonus material. The excuse we got from DDB is that the material is not included with bundles but that is only because the promotions normally end before the book is added to the bundle. This is a special circumstance where they have extended there promotion period.
This leaves there scenario , one of which does not give you the bonus material but it should.
1) I don't own any bundles and I buy the book today. I get the bonus material.
2) I bought a bundle some time in the past and I buy the book today. I get the bonus material.
3) I buy a bundle today which includes the book. I do NOT get the bonus material.
Its this 3rd scenario that is the real issue. Given scenario 2 gets me the bonus material, why would scenario 3 not? There is no cost difference because they give you a discount on the new book in scenario 2 so you are not saving any money buy waiting for the book to be released to buy a bundle as in scenario 3. Pax ran into this issue and they agreed to give him the bonus material as they should. I have run into this issue and am fighting to get my bonus material.
Really, what I think happened is they just messed up and didn't think about it when they extended the offer. My hope is that they fix this and anyone who has bought a source or legendary bundle since the book was released and up until 7/20 when the offer ends will get the bonus material unlocked, as they should.
The argument of should bonus material be available to everyone at any time whenever they buy a book is a different argument. I would like it but I understand why the would not. I wish they would offer it at least for a small price of $1 or $2 as you said but that is besides the point of if I and others in my situation should receive the bonus material.
Mercury in Retrograde is the worst.
Also... why was this only mentioned in the Dev Tracker? It’s just strange.
Nope.
It was a promotion for MOoT specifically. The same promotion that's been saying the preorder bonusses are still available, through the 20th of this month.
I decided I wanted those extra goodies enough to take the plunge, and start buying books on DNDBeyond ... and, saw no reason not to get the mildly discounted rate of the Sourcebook Bundle, rather than buy it all piecemeal.
I'm disappointed in the children thinking with their greed. I thought D&D had smarter better players than that.
If you are that interested in exclusive content, I know a guy who knows a guy.
Turns out that for D&D2020, WOTC has something special up their sleeves. If you hurry now, you can be the first to shovel their parking lot for some authentic limited edition Icewind Dale: Rime of the Icemaden snowflakes. they are using a special distributor so it is a first come first served situation, but you can be assured that no two will be the same. Act now. These are unique items.
For those who preorder, they will throw in original pressed rocks all the way from Avernus. Ignore the smell of butane and barbequed ribs, I mean souls, that is just an upgrade feature for the first 100 orders. We will not be pulling this scam next year. Call now.
Accept no substitutes. The charcoal and snow you find next year will not count as exclusive collectibles.
If this doesn't interest you but you want to talk about exclusivity like it is a good thing, then just know that while I'm not out-and-out saying you are a hypocrite, . . .