First a disclaimer. I realize that this idea is highly unlikely to happen and would probably be a massive undertaking.
I would love to see the D&D Beyond app expanded to include functionality for at the very least D&D v3.5/v4. Again I understand the likelihood of that happening but if you don't at least ask you won't ever get what you want.
Did you even bother to read my post? From where I stand 3.5 or whichever version is still WOTC property and there are people who still play those versions so why would they not deserve to have a modern digital toolset that didn't exist back then and isn't some third party garbage stopgap software?
Edit: Furthermore I was severely victimized by the satanic panic bulls**t of that era, spent many, many years unpacking the emotional damage caused by psychotically malicious religious zealots and never got the opportunity to actually play any of those previous versions. So excuse me for saying so but I don't want anyone's excuses why we can't have such a thing and only want to hear from people who, like myself want to give WOTC cause to not ignore that segment of their PAYING CUSTOMERS.
For digital character creators for older systems, Hero Lab is highly recommended. Their Classic tool supports 3.5 as well as Pathfinder 1e (which many call 3.75 due to its similarities to 3.5 but with improvements for balance and pace of play). It can be found here: https://www.wolflair.com/hero-lab-classic/
You're asking for the service the D&D Beyond provides, but for at least one edition (3.5) that is more complex with massively more options then D&D fifth edition. That would be, at the very least, the same size undertaking as D&D Beyond has been, if not moreso.
I think that's a fairly big ask, especially for editions that WotC no longer provides support or development for.
What you're paying for is digital tools for 5E which is plainly stated on the site. 3.5 and 4E are retired editions and it's a fairly safe assumption that the monetary benefit to WotC would be negligible at best. Any aggression you've shown for other posters here is completely unwarranted.
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Lightning Strike - A rebranded Fire Bolt for Wizards & Sorcerers.
Spirit Bomb - A holy fireball for Clerics, Paladins, & Divine Soul Sorcerers!
Sword Dancer - A Cleric subclass specifically for the Drow goddess Eilistraee.
it's a fairly safe assumption that the monetary benefit to WotC would be negligible at best. Any aggression you've shown for other posters here is completely unwarranted.
Given the future of TTRPG's and trying to make sure they are still relevant and always evolving I don't think they would try to add older additions (especially when it's gearing up and more than likely the big reveal will be 5.5 versus 6.0). What I would like is for them to do is re-look at some of the classes they created and either add outright new classes to the game (that DDB could incorporate to it's systems) or retweak the ideas and fit it into existing classes as a sub class.
That's also mostly because I don't have the materials either and therefore couldnt even try to make some adjustments to even create some into subclasses (although I'm sure if I looked hard enough online I could find them somewhere).
Then why am I paying monthly fees to a company who wont give CUSTOMERS what they pay for, hmm?
Running a business is not as simple as lay people think it is, who generally do not look any deeper than the surface level price tag, and fail to consider other factors.
For specifically the case that you mentioned, there are quite a few problems off the top of my head that needs to be overcome: 1. There is a high start up cost. Some people use Sheets and Excel as a low cost way of databasing and making character sheets, but these are really not acceptable foundations to build your digital tools on at a commercial scale. You need to hire proper professionals, and they do not come cheap. 2. The market is small. Having more customers makes it significantly easier to spread out costs. 3. Potential customers are probably not profitable. If you are a forum regular, you will notice there is about a thread/necro or two per week concerning using Beyond for free or at a discount, with the most common justification being they got the physical books. About half of them are genuine polite asks... and the other half... not so much... would probably be a severe understatement. There are some really toxic consumers out there who only think of their own wallets and will shit on other people's work to argue for a lower price. 4. There is a high risk of loss. 5. There is a high opportunity cost. If Wizards can invest a dollar in 5e and get a hundred dollars back, why would they invest in a dead edition with much less returns?
Bunch of weak willed cowards here too afraid to make demands with their $$$ apparently.
Please do not be one of those toxic consumers.
If you really have that kind of money to just throw it at problems to make them go away, by all means contact Wizards for some kind of licensing agreement so you can develop those digital tools and then sell it to them.
Bunch of weak willed cowards here too afraid to make demands with their $$$ apparently.
Thats the point you so naively missed about this thread, trying to identify that demand, trying to draw out those who agree and are afraid to say so because of people like you telling them they shouldn't even bother asking for or expecting better. Spare me your status quo lack of a spine.
Anyone coming here and posting doesn't lack spine. We are simply offering suggestions of why this topic even getting suggested isn't going to gain any real traction.
Dnd Beyond is apart of WoTC now, sure, but I severely doubt they have the massive power to do such an undertaking, even if they fall under the ability to utilize older additions just based off them being the company.
In addition doing this would take away from the projects they already have (and honestly I don't even know if they have been allowed to hire more staff since being bought by WoTC) and given how much reworking that would make due to how the site works it would be a nightmare.
If you want a fraction of an idea of this all one has to do is go browse the homebrew section.. lots of different posts by users have it broken down how the homebrew part of the site works and showing just how much more complex things would have to get (which can break more things).
5e is more popular the 3.5e and its not even close. For a business to commit money towards funding something they need to expect some sort of return on investment.
Per Mike Mearls (the creative director of Dungeons and Dragons at WotC), 5e units sold in 2016 was already greater than lifetime sales of 3e, 3.5e and 4e (each edition individually). This is despite 5e having only been on the market for 2 years vs over a decade for 3e and 3.5e.
Per Roll20's quarterly reports, 5e has a full 55% market share for number of campaigns on their website. 3.5e is 0.8%. In 2014 when 5e first came out (and as far back as the reports go) 5e was 20% of games. 3.5e was 16%. This shows an overwhelming shift and acceptance of the player base that 5e is the future of D&D.
Demanding a company kowtow to your individual needs isn't a good look. Name calling other people in the forums who are just trying to explain what a business case is won't gain you any friends.
5e is more popular the 3.5e and its not even close. For a business to commit money towards funding something they need to expect some sort of return on investment.
Per Mike Mearls (the creative director of Dungeons and Dragons at WotC), 5e units sold in 2016 was already greater than lifetime sales of 3e, 3.5e and 4e (each edition individually). This is despite 5e having only been on the market for 2 years vs over a decade for 3e and 3.5e.
Per Roll20's quarterly reports, 5e has a full 55% market share for number of campaigns on their website. 3.5e is 0.8%. In 2014 when 5e first came out (and as far back as the reports go) 5e was 20% of games. 3.5e was 16%. This shows an overwhelming shift and acceptance of the player base that 5e is the future of D&D.
Demanding a company kowtow to your individual needs isn't a good look. Name calling other people in the forums who are just trying to explain what a business case is won't gain you any friends.
If it were true that 5e was superior to all others, please, let's hear what excuse you have to offer about why there are countless youtube videos lamenting how godd**n awful 5e is due to so few RAW gameplay options and extremely poorly implemented RAW forcing DM's to DEPEND on homebrew alternative rules just to make the experience palatable and playable.
Complicated and complex? Yes, but richer and infinitely more engaging for players and DM's. Did 3.0/3.5 have issues yes (points at PunPun) but all games ever created regardless of concept are imperfect and require some adjustnents and fine tuning. 5e itself however is GARBAGE and is only theoretically more popular because those kids of the 3.5 era are adults with kids and grandkids who inherited that passion without the conservative backlash of bygone years and those adults who have a fondness for what they barely got to enjoy as children themselves, are forced to accept as THE ONLY DND VERSION "worth playing". Those of us from that era DESERVE to have the same tools of today's iteration made available for the game version we loved which lacked the same vitally necessary tools you younger people overwhelmingly take for granted. This problem should NOT be relegated to anyone outside of Wizards' corporate team to solve in less than adequate ways.
Marketing numbers are not the only critically relevant factors to consider. Your statistical quotes ignore serious issues that existed in that era, RELIGIOUS ZEALOTRY and the cultural impact that it had on the popularity and accessibility of the v3.x game, and the very young state of the newly born internet ecosystem.
Thats the point you so naively missed about this thread, trying to identify that demand, trying to draw out those who agree and are afraid to say so because of people like you telling them they shouldn't even bother asking for or expecting better. Spare me your status quo lack of a spine.
I will not be silenced by your complacency.
I am not trying to silence you. I am explaining the situation and how business works. You can vote all you on the forums, but that is not going to change reality. Instead of just complaining about it on the forums, you can actually do something about it. Use your money and passion to start your own project, and if it turns out well, sell it to Wizards. That is how Beyond did it, and I have been telling people to start their own digital tools if they are not happy with Beyond. What is stopping you from doing that massive undertaking?
If it were true that 5e was superior to all others, please, let's hear what excuse you have to offer about why there are countless youtube videos lamenting how godd**n awful 5e is due to so few RAW gameplay options and extremely poorly implemented RAW forcing DM's to DEPEND on homebrew alternative rules just to make the experience palatable and playable.
You do know that just because there are lots of haters does not mean a product is not successful, right? If you really like 3.5e and 4e, you can still play those games right now and have good time instead of being on a 5e forum complaining about 5e.
Sooo the major part of the satanic panic happened at the start of its foundation and largely resolved itself by the time the 3rd edition.
People probably were and I know are, still claiming its evil and what not but they just are doing that and that wouldn't be considered part of the satanic panic that the OP is concerned that blocked the 3rd or 4th edition.
OP I get that you are passionate about this and I understand that other people would like this too. The main problem is I don't get why you OP don't come up with an argument or have facts about how this would be productive for WoTC to invest into doing such actions with DnD Beyond.
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First a disclaimer. I realize that this idea is highly unlikely to happen and would probably be a massive undertaking.
I would love to see the D&D Beyond app expanded to include functionality for at the very least D&D v3.5/v4. Again I understand the likelihood of that happening but if you don't at least ask you won't ever get what you want.
Those rulesets are out of print (WotC hasn't produced content for them in almost 10 years).
Given DDB is now owned by WotC, they are not going to put resources towards something that they don't even make anymore.
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
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Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ
Did you even bother to read my post? From where I stand 3.5 or whichever version is still WOTC property and there are people who still play those versions so why would they not deserve to have a modern digital toolset that didn't exist back then and isn't some third party garbage stopgap software?
Edit: Furthermore I was severely victimized by the satanic panic bulls**t of that era, spent many, many years unpacking the emotional damage caused by psychotically malicious religious zealots and never got the opportunity to actually play any of those previous versions. So excuse me for saying so but I don't want anyone's excuses why we can't have such a thing and only want to hear from people who, like myself want to give WOTC cause to not ignore that segment of their PAYING CUSTOMERS.
For digital character creators for older systems, Hero Lab is highly recommended. Their Classic tool supports 3.5 as well as Pathfinder 1e (which many call 3.75 due to its similarities to 3.5 but with improvements for balance and pace of play). It can be found here: https://www.wolflair.com/hero-lab-classic/
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ
Checked it out, wasted money on it. I remain thoroughly unimpressed with 3rd party solutions.
Back to what I already stated, I want WOTC to provide an official digital toolset platform for their previous game versions. I'm not asking too much.
"I'm not asking too much"
You're asking for the service the D&D Beyond provides, but for at least one edition (3.5) that is more complex with massively more options then D&D fifth edition. That would be, at the very least, the same size undertaking as D&D Beyond has been, if not moreso.
I think that's a fairly big ask, especially for editions that WotC no longer provides support or development for.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Then why am I paying monthly fees to a company who wont give CUSTOMERS what they pay for, hmm?
What you're paying for is digital tools for 5E which is plainly stated on the site. 3.5 and 4E are retired editions and it's a fairly safe assumption that the monetary benefit to WotC would be negligible at best. Any aggression you've shown for other posters here is completely unwarranted.
Lightning Strike - A rebranded Fire Bolt for Wizards & Sorcerers.
Spirit Bomb - A holy fireball for Clerics, Paladins, & Divine Soul Sorcerers!
Sword Dancer - A Cleric subclass specifically for the Drow goddess Eilistraee.
Quicksilver & The Scarlet Witch - A pair of magical firearms for your Gunslinger or Artificer.
I strongly disagree on both points.
Given the future of TTRPG's and trying to make sure they are still relevant and always evolving I don't think they would try to add older additions (especially when it's gearing up and more than likely the big reveal will be 5.5 versus 6.0). What I would like is for them to do is re-look at some of the classes they created and either add outright new classes to the game (that DDB could incorporate to it's systems) or retweak the ideas and fit it into existing classes as a sub class.
That's also mostly because I don't have the materials either and therefore couldnt even try to make some adjustments to even create some into subclasses (although I'm sure if I looked hard enough online I could find them somewhere).
Oh and you should take a 2nd glance at that poll. I'm not alone in my opinion.
Running a business is not as simple as lay people think it is, who generally do not look any deeper than the surface level price tag, and fail to consider other factors.
For specifically the case that you mentioned, there are quite a few problems off the top of my head that needs to be overcome:
1. There is a high start up cost. Some people use Sheets and Excel as a low cost way of databasing and making character sheets, but these are really not acceptable foundations to build your digital tools on at a commercial scale. You need to hire proper professionals, and they do not come cheap.
2. The market is small. Having more customers makes it significantly easier to spread out costs.
3. Potential customers are probably not profitable. If you are a forum regular, you will notice there is about a thread/necro or two per week concerning using Beyond for free or at a discount, with the most common justification being they got the physical books. About half of them are genuine polite asks... and the other half... not so much... would probably be a severe understatement. There are some really toxic consumers out there who only think of their own wallets and will shit on other people's work to argue for a lower price.
4. There is a high risk of loss.
5. There is a high opportunity cost. If Wizards can invest a dollar in 5e and get a hundred dollars back, why would they invest in a dead edition with much less returns?
Please do not be one of those toxic consumers.
If you really have that kind of money to just throw it at problems to make them go away, by all means contact Wizards for some kind of licensing agreement so you can develop those digital tools and then sell it to them.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
What do you
Thats the point you so naively missed about this thread, trying to identify that demand, trying to draw out those who agree and are afraid to say so because of people like you telling them they shouldn't even bother asking for or expecting better. Spare me your status quo lack of a spine.
I will not be silenced by your complacency.
Anyone coming here and posting doesn't lack spine. We are simply offering suggestions of why this topic even getting suggested isn't going to gain any real traction.
Dnd Beyond is apart of WoTC now, sure, but I severely doubt they have the massive power to do such an undertaking, even if they fall under the ability to utilize older additions just based off them being the company.
In addition doing this would take away from the projects they already have (and honestly I don't even know if they have been allowed to hire more staff since being bought by WoTC) and given how much reworking that would make due to how the site works it would be a nightmare.
If you want a fraction of an idea of this all one has to do is go browse the homebrew section.. lots of different posts by users have it broken down how the homebrew part of the site works and showing just how much more complex things would have to get (which can break more things).
5e is more popular the 3.5e and its not even close. For a business to commit money towards funding something they need to expect some sort of return on investment.
Per Mike Mearls (the creative director of Dungeons and Dragons at WotC), 5e units sold in 2016 was already greater than lifetime sales of 3e, 3.5e and 4e (each edition individually). This is despite 5e having only been on the market for 2 years vs over a decade for 3e and 3.5e.
Per Roll20's quarterly reports, 5e has a full 55% market share for number of campaigns on their website. 3.5e is 0.8%. In 2014 when 5e first came out (and as far back as the reports go) 5e was 20% of games. 3.5e was 16%. This shows an overwhelming shift and acceptance of the player base that 5e is the future of D&D.
Demanding a company kowtow to your individual needs isn't a good look.
Name calling other people in the forums who are just trying to explain what a business case is won't gain you any friends.
References:
Mike Mearls Tweet: https://twitter.com/mikemearls/status/764241988128419840
Roll20 2014 Report: https://blog.roll20.net/posts/the-orr-group-industry-report-q4-2014/
Roll20 2021 Report: https://blog.roll20.net/posts/the-orr-report-q4-2021/
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ
Individual needs? Um take another look at the poll above, my yes vote is not the only yes vote sooo.
If it were true that 5e was superior to all others, please, let's hear what excuse you have to offer about why there are countless youtube videos lamenting how godd**n awful 5e is due to so few RAW gameplay options and extremely poorly implemented RAW forcing DM's to DEPEND on homebrew alternative rules just to make the experience palatable and playable.
Edit: Case in point.
3.0/3.5 WAS the superior version hands down.
Complicated and complex? Yes, but richer and infinitely more engaging for players and DM's. Did 3.0/3.5 have issues yes (points at PunPun) but all games ever created regardless of concept are imperfect and require some adjustnents and fine tuning. 5e itself however is GARBAGE and is only theoretically more popular because those kids of the 3.5 era are adults with kids and grandkids who inherited that passion without the conservative backlash of bygone years and those adults who have a fondness for what they barely got to enjoy as children themselves, are forced to accept as THE ONLY DND VERSION "worth playing". Those of us from that era DESERVE to have the same tools of today's iteration made available for the game version we loved which lacked the same vitally necessary tools you younger people overwhelmingly take for granted. This problem should NOT be relegated to anyone outside of Wizards' corporate team to solve in less than adequate ways.
Marketing numbers are not the only critically relevant factors to consider. Your statistical quotes ignore serious issues that existed in that era, RELIGIOUS ZEALOTRY and the cultural impact that it had on the popularity and accessibility of the v3.x game, and the very young state of the newly born internet ecosystem.
I am not trying to silence you. I am explaining the situation and how business works. You can vote all you on the forums, but that is not going to change reality. Instead of just complaining about it on the forums, you can actually do something about it. Use your money and passion to start your own project, and if it turns out well, sell it to Wizards. That is how Beyond did it, and I have been telling people to start their own digital tools if they are not happy with Beyond. What is stopping you from doing that massive undertaking?
You do know that just because there are lots of haters does not mean a product is not successful, right? If you really like 3.5e and 4e, you can still play those games right now and have good time instead of being on a 5e forum complaining about 5e.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Sooo the major part of the satanic panic happened at the start of its foundation and largely resolved itself by the time the 3rd edition.
People probably were and I know are, still claiming its evil and what not but they just are doing that and that wouldn't be considered part of the satanic panic that the OP is concerned that blocked the 3rd or 4th edition.
OP I get that you are passionate about this and I understand that other people would like this too. The main problem is I don't get why you OP don't come up with an argument or have facts about how this would be productive for WoTC to invest into doing such actions with DnD Beyond.