This has made the site unusable for me. I play using my phone during games and the mobile version completely removes any reason to use the site over paper and pencil. I'm really concerned about what the UX Design, Prototyping, and UX Research teams (or people) at Curse were doing when they designed this mobile experience. Just because ~30% of your users on mobile doesn't mean you completely destroy the experience for them. As a frontend engineer, this update is just baffling to me. It breaks so many design conventions and not to bring in an innovative or intuitive alternative.
Please, remove the unnecessary menus and bring back swiping to navigate for mobile experiences. Don't parcel out info in so many different sections on mobile. It's okay for mobile users to scroll down a little bit if necessary. Fix the lack of true responsiveness on the site. Users on tablet, mobile, and large screens all have issues with spacing. This means UX and your frontend team(s) all only checked this site on a similar screen size. Are y'all even conducting UX Research and running experiments to actually engage in data driven development?
I'm sorry to sound so knee jerk, but this has really ruined my ability to use this product while I'm playing and in that case, why wouldn't I just use pen and paper?
For every person that hates the new UI there’s a person like me who found mobile formats and the desktop formt unusable before so i was using the almost as bad pdf version where i had to edit a ton but everything was familiar and i could find it. Now all 3 are much improved! Still tweaks are needed and developers are working on them but ive found these upgrades to be a huge plus to my game. Im happy to finally be able to use my iPad now!
Too many pages of these for me to go through right now. but here are my notes, suggestions and wishes.
- Things I love — The "add custom attack" option. Built right in, Awesome. thank you for that. — Ability to add custom skills , awesome. thank you for that. — Adding Custom language, HOLY SHIT, YOU ADDED IT. NICE ! I've been looking for that in the builder, happy to see it here. (is this in the builder too?? i can't find it.)
Honestly.. I ahvent' found anything yet that i don't like. I keep looking for shit when I say. "hold up, they need this..." and then finding it. So uh... GOod job guys. good job.
It will be cool if You add Magic Items with charges to Actions Tab, or make "New Dawn" option to Long Rest, becose now recharging Magic Items with Dawn based charge refreshment in inventory is very clumsily, and not easy to use.
It will be cool if You add Magic Items with charges to Actions Tab, or make "New Dawn" option to Long Rest, becose now recharging Magic Items with Dawn based charge refreshment in inventory is very clumsily, and not easy to use.
Having all three reset contingencies as actionable check boxes would be nice actually. thanks for the inspiring thought here.
In the Notes section of the character sheet where you have "Organisations", "Allies", "Enemies", "Other", it'd be awesome if you could add a "Rivals" section as well as a "Downtime" section for those of us using Xanathar's guide and don't want to clutter up the "Other" tab.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
The PDF export for clerics includes the Ceremony spell from Xanathar's Guide to Everything, even if the spell wasn't selected.
This is working as intended, I believe. The current iteration of the sheet prints all possible spells you can choose to prepare, so that if you take a long rest you can then swap out the spells. Otherwise you would need to export/print again each time you change your spells. You mark which ones you would like to prepare, as Clerics don't have a limited 'known' list, being divine casters.
Huh, you're right. I didn't realize that Clerics got so few spells in XGE, that it's the only one that shows up for my low-level Clerics.
I liked it at first till I realized that when you export the sheet it is missing sections such as additional items for all the loot that is not equipment that we pick up goes like treasure. Also I am playing a rogue in a curse of strand campaign and on the new exported character sheet it doesn't show what current amount of d6s are my sneak attack are like the old one did
I think it would be helpful to add a Find Steed/Familiar/Steed section, with stats and whatnot. Also, in the Channel Divinity section of Limited Use abilities, it doesn't actually list the two uses for it. It's under class features, but I'd like to be able to view it from the section I'm actually using it from, rather than clicking around trying to find it to clarify something I don't remember.
I don't know if this is the right page for this but may I suggest an Option to send characters to other users?
If you go to your character sheet and click on the red arrow next to your character's name, toward the bottom is a "shareable link" option.
I believe he wants to actually give the character to someone. The problem with that is whether or not the person you want to give it to has purchased the content contained within the character.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
I believe he wants to actually give the character to someone. The problem with that is whether or not the person you want to give it to has purchased the content contained within the character.
I'm not sure if it's intentional or not, but there is a way around this. Whoever owns the content makes a campaign with no need for content sharing to be turned on. Then they make an unassigned character. Then they give the invite to the campaign to the player they want to share the character with. The player uses the link and when prompted to choose a character to join the campaign with, they choose the unassigned one. Everything works normally and you can even level it up and it will take on any features of a subclass that you don't own. You can even leave the campaign and still use the character. You can't add anything new to it that is from content you don't own, but that's not really an issue if you give them a fully decked out, 20th-level character that they can copy and delevel as they please.
I do, however, feel as if this might've been an oversight and will probably be corrected at some point in the future as it seems to be a pretty easy way to rort the system.
As a frontend engineer, this update is just baffling to me. It breaks so many design conventions and not to bring in an innovative or intuitive alternative.
Please, remove the unnecessary menus and bring back swiping to navigate for mobile experiences. Don't parcel out info in so many different sections on mobile. It's okay for mobile users to scroll down a little bit if necessary. Fix the lack of true responsiveness on the site. Users on tablet, mobile, and large screens all have issues with spacing. This means UX and your frontend team(s) all only checked this site on a similar screen size. Are y'all even conducting UX Research and running experiments to actually engage in data driven development?
So, while I agree with many of your points here, and although I've voiced plenty of complaints over different things, including flouting CSS conventions, which leads to some of the problems you, I, and others have had with mobile versions, there are a lot of great features in the redesign.
So to balance out the negatives I've pointed out, here is my big list of Kudos (after my incessant bug/rant posts)
The team seems to be very open to hearing some fairly hostile feedback, which is a great quality to have in a company, and will only serve to make them better.
I hear an openness to explore other ideas and opinions, even if they don't share them. (Imagine what it would be like if politicians did the same).
The spell system, while a challenge as implemented for many (based on feedback here), is actually pretty great. The scaling spells in particular are great!
It seems most of the complaints I read have to do with spell slots not being all visible at once, and the space for the list being arbitrarily small
Both of the problems are very fixable.
The Actions tab is greatness! It really helps to have a "stuff I can do" list. Kudos on that.
I like that "everything's a link" which takes you to info about that thing!
Customizable. Many more things are customizable! YAY
Custom languages
Custom attacks
Custom actions
etc.
There are still bugs and missing settings (to hit modifier on general attack for example) but again, solvable.
Scripting descriptions are really great too, being able to have calculations within descriptions is a step in the right direction for on-line usability.
Descriptions of calculations like are available on the details for AC are likewise very helpful.
I'd really like to see a whole lot more of this: Initiative, Darkvision, etc.
There are still bugs, like Darkvision calculations, where showing the calculations could help catch bugs.
Customizable themes is great! Customizable anything frankly, is a crowd pleaser.
Another big win for the team is that they have shown a willingness to be wrong. To take assumptions they had and actually eat crow when they were wrong. I've heard @BadEye mention on a couple of occasions that they determined they were wrong on this or that after seeing data prove things out. Again, very valuable and helpful to have a humble attitude in software, it will only make them grow and get better!
Fortunately, many of these great features can be made better fairly easily, with minor-ish tweaks. I honestly believe that much of folks problems with things on the site currently has to do with the layout rather than the features themselves.
I have absolutely no inside knowledge of how the code monkeys within dndbeyond are organized or what their current pain points are but here are some wild guesses:
There is tremendous pressure to deliver good working code (yay) so corners are cut to save time (boo). These corners add to technical debt, which must be "paid off" as it were, later. (Technical debt being the delta between what you should have done and what you actually did). This is a common problem across all development and there is a level of acceptable debt to delivery, but if you don't manage it, it can bite you. In any case, They are probably are/were wrestling with a good bit of that after the initial launch.
I have no idea the overall level of experience of the team, juniors:seniors, etc. There's a sweet spot, and as they grow, they may still be balancing that. Again, a normal part of software/company growth.
Customer feedback and data collection. While no, there weren't surveys, etc. nor Beta sites (would be a great idea, btw). They have, however, shown time and time again that they are collecting usage data and that they care. Not everyone does this well, so kudos to them on that.
PS - Maybe a tool other than forums for data gathering would be helpful? Feature priority voting/tracking, etc?
CI/CD. Based on the time it took to deploy the update, and again, no inside knowledge here, only wild speculation, I'd venture to guess they aren't using CI/CD with, docker swarm/kubernetes. Now I could be horribly wrong on that, but generally those tools once set up, it reduces deployment to a matter of minutes. MS tools are notoriously touchy with deployments and configurations as an alternate, negative example.
Automated Testing. For massive apps, a must. Not sure what code coverage actually is, but there are several items (crashes on clicking to open descriptions for things comes to mind) that would probably be caught in an automated fashion prior to deployment. Also, writing automated testing is a bear, or can be. In some apps I've seen the tests add a good 50% to the time required for development! But it keeps the technical debt low in the long run.
In any case, dndbeyond devs, thank you for your hard work on the tool and I hope you take the community's (and my) criticism for what most of it is. A very committed community of people who care a great deal about the product you're making, which is a great position to be in.
And also... never, never used fixed positioning. We'll slap your hands. Also, we don't mind scrolling a little, let us. :)
This is exactly why I said "Are y'all even conducting UX Research and running experiments to actually engage in data driven development?" Now that they have already created their minimally viable product, rather than doing large overhauls on a whim, they should be making incremental changes based on not only UX research reports, but also by implementing experiments to see what UI features and layout changes drive user experience and provide greater ROI/conversions. This type of work is what I do all day. Ideation sessions among devs, product, management, and culling information from users AS WELL AS blind A/B testing of features and layout changes.
Anypoo, I agree with your positive points, but I don't use the desktop version and mobile version is pretty useless to me right now, so I'm switching back to pen and paper. Hopefully they fix the mobile experience or put a proper character sheet component to the app. I was poking around in their React components earlier, and it's not like the code was particularly dirty or anything. So it's not like I don't trust the crew at Curse. It's just they took a useable, but problematic experience and made into one I can't use at all and did so without any warning. (Which is one of my least favorite aspects of SAAS product tbh, but I digress.) I really just want to have a discuss with their designers, UX team, prototypers, etc. to extol the virtues of data driven development that isn't based off, "Our traffic in Google Analytics says only X% of users use the experience, so we won't invest any time in making sure that experience makes sense." That is reductive and problematic from both a product and development standpoint. Mumble mumble trail off...
WRT to CI/CD and Automated testing, I'm guessing they are not utilizing Agile methodologies since they are doing releases. I think there are a lot of general methodology and philosophical/theory differences between perhaps the software development that we are used to and the software development that Curse is employing and I think while they probably are implementing a lot of great ideas in their internal methodology, there are pretty clearly some parts where they are not suffering.
Agreed the desktop/PC version is great especially for updating my characters, but using the mobile/android version is **** the cover page has none of the useful info for combat and having to constantly change between the spells and combat windows is unwieldy. I had hoped they would permit me to run the desk top version but that makes no difference when you select that option. so am having to use pen and paper at my games and then update any relevant info when i get home.
on the off chance this post makes any difference at least let me run the desktop version when I select that option or as suggested previously permit me to select the earlier version as that was less unwieldy than the current one.
It's just they took a useable, but problematic experience and made into one I can't use at all and did so without any warning.
I mean, I get that it feels like these changes were foisted on folks without any warning, but they were pretty transparent about the process, from collecting user feedback/ideas on the forums, to discussing their progress in the revamp both in forum posts and in the monthly dev update streams. Not saying they couldn't have handled everything in a more ideal manner (more testing, incremental changes, etc. are all things I can get behind) but I think it's unfair (and factually incorrect) to say that this was just a thing that happened and no one was at all prepared for it.
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DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
Too many pages of these for me to go through right now. but here are my notes, suggestions and wishes.
- Things I love — The "add custom attack" option. Built right in, Awesome. thank you for that. — Ability to add custom skills , awesome. thank you for that. — Adding Custom language, HOLY SHIT, YOU ADDED IT. NICE ! I've been looking for that in the builder, happy to see it here. (is this in the builder too?? i can't find it.)
Honestly.. I ahvent' found anything yet that i don't like. I keep looking for shit when I say. "hold up, they need this..." and then finding it. So uh... GOod job guys. good job.
Oh god yes, these are awesome things, the ability to add Thieves Tools as a custom skill makes an amazing amount of difference for anyone running a rogue, it used to be, you pick proficiency and then the skill disappeared into a hidden void of doom, soooooo happy I can now see it! The custom attacks are also really useful too, need a place to put your sneak attack damage? Booming blade? Now its as easy as pie!
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For every person that hates the new UI there’s a person like me who found mobile formats and the desktop formt unusable before so i was using the almost as bad pdf version where i had to edit a ton but everything was familiar and i could find it. Now all 3 are much improved! Still tweaks are needed and developers are working on them but ive found these upgrades to be a huge plus to my game. Im happy to finally be able to use my iPad now!
Vyrabis (Dragonborn) Monk - World Reborn
Too many pages of these for me to go through right now. but here are my notes, suggestions and wishes.
- Things I love
— The "add custom attack" option. Built right in, Awesome. thank you for that.
— Ability to add custom skills , awesome. thank you for that.
— Adding Custom language, HOLY SHIT, YOU ADDED IT. NICE ! I've been looking for that in the builder, happy to see it here. (is this in the builder too?? i can't find it.)
Honestly.. I ahvent' found anything yet that i don't like. I keep looking for shit when I say. "hold up, they need this..." and then finding it. So uh... GOod job guys. good job.
It will be cool if You add Magic Items with charges to Actions Tab, or make "New Dawn" option to Long Rest, becose now recharging Magic Items with Dawn based charge refreshment in inventory is very clumsily, and not easy to use.
Nah having it truncated indicates there’s more to see when you scroll.
Having all three reset contingencies as actionable check boxes would be nice actually. thanks for the inspiring thought here.
I don't know if this is the right page for this but may I suggest an Option to send characters to other users?
In the Notes section of the character sheet where you have "Organisations", "Allies", "Enemies", "Other", it'd be awesome if you could add a "Rivals" section as well as a "Downtime" section for those of us using Xanathar's guide and don't want to clutter up the "Other" tab.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Huh, you're right. I didn't realize that Clerics got so few spells in XGE, that it's the only one that shows up for my low-level Clerics.
I liked it at first till I realized that when you export the sheet it is missing sections such as additional items for all the loot that is not equipment that we pick up goes like treasure. Also I am playing a rogue in a curse of strand campaign and on the new exported character sheet it doesn't show what current amount of d6s are my sneak attack are like the old one did
I think it would be helpful to add a Find Steed/Familiar/Steed section, with stats and whatnot. Also, in the Channel Divinity section of Limited Use abilities, it doesn't actually list the two uses for it. It's under class features, but I'd like to be able to view it from the section I'm actually using it from, rather than clicking around trying to find it to clarify something I don't remember.
If you go to your character sheet and click on the red arrow next to your character's name, toward the bottom is a "shareable link" option.
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ModeratorI believe he wants to actually give the character to someone. The problem with that is whether or not the person you want to give it to has purchased the content contained within the character.
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Lance of lethargy invocation doesn't work...
I'm not sure if it's intentional or not, but there is a way around this. Whoever owns the content makes a campaign with no need for content sharing to be turned on. Then they make an unassigned character. Then they give the invite to the campaign to the player they want to share the character with. The player uses the link and when prompted to choose a character to join the campaign with, they choose the unassigned one. Everything works normally and you can even level it up and it will take on any features of a subclass that you don't own. You can even leave the campaign and still use the character. You can't add anything new to it that is from content you don't own, but that's not really an issue if you give them a fully decked out, 20th-level character that they can copy and delevel as they please.
I do, however, feel as if this might've been an oversight and will probably be corrected at some point in the future as it seems to be a pretty easy way to rort the system.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Shotgun has the reload trait but is missing the (2 shots) mention...
Well, geeze, man! You picked it wrong! :D
Playtesting Fugare Draconis, an epic tale of adventure, loss, and redemption
This is exactly why I said "Are y'all even conducting UX Research and running experiments to actually engage in data driven development?" Now that they have already created their minimally viable product, rather than doing large overhauls on a whim, they should be making incremental changes based on not only UX research reports, but also by implementing experiments to see what UI features and layout changes drive user experience and provide greater ROI/conversions. This type of work is what I do all day. Ideation sessions among devs, product, management, and culling information from users AS WELL AS blind A/B testing of features and layout changes.
Anypoo, I agree with your positive points, but I don't use the desktop version and mobile version is pretty useless to me right now, so I'm switching back to pen and paper. Hopefully they fix the mobile experience or put a proper character sheet component to the app. I was poking around in their React components earlier, and it's not like the code was particularly dirty or anything. So it's not like I don't trust the crew at Curse. It's just they took a useable, but problematic experience and made into one I can't use at all and did so without any warning. (Which is one of my least favorite aspects of SAAS product tbh, but I digress.) I really just want to have a discuss with their designers, UX team, prototypers, etc. to extol the virtues of data driven development that isn't based off, "Our traffic in Google Analytics says only X% of users use the experience, so we won't invest any time in making sure that experience makes sense." That is reductive and problematic from both a product and development standpoint. Mumble mumble trail off...
WRT to CI/CD and Automated testing, I'm guessing they are not utilizing Agile methodologies since they are doing releases. I think there are a lot of general methodology and philosophical/theory differences between perhaps the software development that we are used to and the software development that Curse is employing and I think while they probably are implementing a lot of great ideas in their internal methodology, there are pretty clearly some parts where they are not suffering.
Agreed the desktop/PC version is great especially for updating my characters, but using the mobile/android version is **** the cover page has none of the useful info for combat and having to constantly change between the spells and combat windows is unwieldy. I had hoped they would permit me to run the desk top version but that makes no difference when you select that option. so am having to use pen and paper at my games and then update any relevant info when i get home.
on the off chance this post makes any difference at least let me run the desktop version when I select that option or as suggested previously permit me to select the earlier version as that was less unwieldy than the current one.
I mean, I get that it feels like these changes were foisted on folks without any warning, but they were pretty transparent about the process, from collecting user feedback/ideas on the forums, to discussing their progress in the revamp both in forum posts and in the monthly dev update streams. Not saying they couldn't have handled everything in a more ideal manner (more testing, incremental changes, etc. are all things I can get behind) but I think it's unfair (and factually incorrect) to say that this was just a thing that happened and no one was at all prepared for it.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
Oh god yes, these are awesome things, the ability to add Thieves Tools as a custom skill makes an amazing amount of difference for anyone running a rogue, it used to be, you pick proficiency and then the skill disappeared into a hidden void of doom, soooooo happy I can now see it! The custom attacks are also really useful too, need a place to put your sneak attack damage? Booming blade? Now its as easy as pie!