To be honest, I barely posted before the OGL scandal. It seems that when people are happy and are just here to buy things, it's a lot quieter. Now I'm more vocal about changes I see as flagrantly corporate greed because I can and will just buy from other creators.
I suppose they see losing the bulk of sales worth the few who still buy full books. But now I just buy my official books secondhand.
Yeah I'm the same. I saw the OGL as a Wizbro issue. DDB was third party until recently, it wasn't them causing the issue so I kept using the service and buying new material.
But now, this is an issue with DDB. Piecemeal was what initially drove me to buy on this site. A $30 digital book for content I already had in physical form was unnecessary. I got the PHB on Amazon for $15, my first copy is completely notated and with several tab indicators to flip through more easily and I'd print off anything I need at work. But things like $5 for a new race and subclass was well worth it. Low barrier to entry and I didn't feel like I was making an investment in something I may not like anyway. Now I've purchased so much I have eventually rounded out many of the books, but I never would have started if I saw a $60 price tag to play one new race from Mordekainan's and one subclass from Tasha's.
That's what I really don't get, how do they expect to bring on new players if all they want is one thing from a source. And the only thing DDB says "oh for a subscription you can share content!" But you need people to want to buy your product first. Not everyone has that level of disposable income, or cares to run a campaign fully digitally. They ticked of most of their customer base and shot themselves in the foot over this.
WotC owned DDB when the OGL thing went down ( actually they bought it beginning of ‘22, OGL gate started late ‘22, so didn’t take them long.)
just as now, as it was then, it’s profit over people. And once again it will be the people who tell the company “sorry, you have become too expensive, no profit for you.”
What is even worst for the company is the timing of it all, and the fact that corporate heads should have known better.
5e alc piecemeal is dead, what else is possibly on the chopping block?
To be honest, I barely posted before the OGL scandal. It seems that when people are happy and are just here to buy things, it's a lot quieter. Now I'm more vocal about changes I see as flagrantly corporate greed because I can and will just buy from other creators.
I suppose they see losing the bulk of sales worth the few who still buy full books. But now I just buy my official books secondhand.
Yeah I'm the same. I saw the OGL as a Wizbro issue. DDB was third party until recently, it wasn't them causing the issue so I kept using the service and buying new material.
But now, this is an issue with DDB. Piecemeal was what initially drove me to buy on this site. A $30 digital book for content I already had in physical form was unnecessary. I got the PHB on Amazon for $15, my first copy is completely notated and with several tab indicators to flip through more easily and I'd print off anything I need at work. But things like $5 for a new race and subclass was well worth it. Low barrier to entry and I didn't feel like I was making an investment in something I may not like anyway. Now I've purchased so much I have eventually rounded out many of the books, but I never would have started if I saw a $60 price tag to play one new race from Mordekainan's and one subclass from Tasha's.
That's what I really don't get, how do they expect to bring on new players if all they want is one thing from a source. And the only thing DDB says "oh for a subscription you can share content!" But you need people to want to buy your product first. Not everyone has that level of disposable income, or cares to run a campaign fully digitally. They ticked of most of their customer base and shot themselves in the foot over this.
WotC owned DDB when the OGL thing went down ( actually they bought it beginning of ‘22, OGL gate started late ‘22, so didn’t take them long.)
just as now, as it was then, it’s profit over people. And once again it will be the people who tell the company “sorry, you have become too expensive, no profit for you.”
What is even worst for the company is the timing of it all, and the fact that corporate heads should have known better.
5e alc piecemeal is dead, what else is possibly on the chopping block?
Yeah, I know, but DDB had nothing to do with the OGL. When I say "recently," I mean in the context of DDB's lifespan; being owned by Hasbro is a newer development. Even if they were brought on earlier, the DDB team and the legal/executive team responsible for the OGL scandal are separate departments. DDB wouldn't have had any say in it.
Now, the Hasbro ghoul has sucked the soul of this site. Features are left unfinished and clunky, the VTT being prioritized over other roadmaps like the general feats tab, epic boons, and encounter builder. The site now focuses on making money rather than offering a good product. They're pushing the subscription model to justify $30 for a single subclass, claiming "you can share it!" But I can also share PDFs and physical books.
I haven't forgotten the $30 monthly subscription leak before OneD&D, I still think everything is leading to that. And unless it includes access to every book, feature, option, and map, even those with disposable income will pass. Micro-transaction models work, and there were many ways to make more money without pissing off the fan base: raise a la carte item prices by like $1, sell as 'pack only', offer alt covers with the $10 digital bundle, or other.
In all likeliness, homebrew is either going to get cut next or go behind a paywall. They know we can curtail purchases by taking the time to put in what we need into homebrew. Buying a la carte was worth the few bucks cause you wouldn't have to do the work and could have it work natively in the app without needing to spend hours figuring out how to work it in.
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
May we inquire as to what reasons they may of had? This community has been left in the dark with virtually zero communication from the new owners.
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
May we inquire as to what reasons they may of had? This community has been left in the dark with virtually zero communication from the new owners.
You can inquire as much as you want, we're either never getting an official answer (more likely), or the answer will come due to sales drop, not because of actual complaints (less likely).
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
I would also like to know what these difficulties were.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, more than anything I would just like better communication of any kind from WotC with the community. When people are clamoring for a response, at this point any response, this continued radio silence feels almost contemptuous.
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
I would also like to know what these difficulties were.
look back at older post here on site. The biggest is the contrast between an alc piecemeal system or a tiered subscription model.
The subscription model has the major flaw of it only takes a few consumers to run the profits into a one and done type system, and account abuse would be rampant.
The issue with a-la-carte that i’ve ever seen anywhere is when there is a wide production sale, and the occasional situation where a consumer buys just enough alc to overpay a sale, and now the company has to decide how to deal with that new issue. ( noticed how all alc piecemeal deals now have to go though an extensive ticket process, simple solution to complex issue, kill alc and see how many will attempt to deal with the hassle of getting that discount verses just eating the cost.)
I’m fairly sure this last 50% off sale, that was short for whatever reason, ( would really, really, really like to truly know how the changes have effected sales numbers, but we will get whatever spin the company will put on the numbers when the second quarter financials come out, just about the same time the new edition rolls out. Should be interesting. ), and I can only guess it was because wizbro knew the numbers were going to be low.
I just truly and honestly feel most sorry for Stormknight and the founders of the site. Having to watch a labor of love go through such troubling times must be gut wrenching.
But as they say, “That which does not kill you just pisses you off more, and makes you stronger, faster, smarter, and more determined to prove one persons trash is another persons treasure.”
I didn't post here at all during the OGL issue. It was a problem that affected all of D&D and was already being combatted on multiple fronts. I haven't seen nearly as wide pushback to this change because it only affects D&D Beyond, which not everyone uses. That's why I'm posting here. The marketplace ought to be rolled back. I've found myself so many times clicking an item I wanted, seeing it locked behind a full book purchase, and then turning away where I would have normally bought the individual item instead.
May we inquire as to what reasons they may of had? This community has been left in the dark with virtually zero communication from the new owners.
Almost certainly "it's a lot of work to maintain", and I don't think that answer would appease anyone.
I have a theory, for what it's worth. I think it has a lot to do with the VTT. Is it a lot of work to maintain the code for rach new class, subclass, creature, item, spell etc that comes out in a new book? Possibly, but at the end of the day, it's just text on a page...it can't be impossibly hard
But, now picture that each new spell has to be paired with a rendered 3D image and animation, in order to use it in a graphics-heavy VTT. Each monster has to be designed and animated and programmed with how it interacts with a map and all the bells and whistles that go along with it. I can easily see the time and cost and effort to build that out to be too much for a la carte purchasing. You throw a lot of developer resources into each element and so your vtt content comes from a Volo's Guide bundle, priced to offset the development costs
They're not going to want to remove a popular feature to support the vtt when it rolls out, because that generates a lot of bad blood for a key product. So instead, we pull a la carte pricing early, to lay the groundwork.
Absolutely zero evidence to suggest any of this is true, pure speculation. But it could explain the decision, and also why details behind the decision making process are scarce.
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
I would also like to know what these difficulties were.
"Dear customer,
We were having a difficulty feeding our greed at your expense. So instead of allowing you to purchase pieces and parts of a book convenient to you, we are now forcing you to buy the entire book. Nope, not even bundles, just the whole book or nothing. We were also not going to tell you about it. Ever. We will also ignore you and everyone else's feedback as the only feedback we understand is if we are obtaining your money or not. Have a wonderful day!
Unofficially since we haven't said anything about it, -WotC"
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
May we inquire as to what reasons they may of had? This community has been left in the dark with virtually zero communication from the new owners.
It is easy to imagine the reason. The ones in charge probably wanted to try to get more money per single customer without accepting that this is a "killing the goose that lays golden eggs" situation because the ala carte purchaces were what helped DNDbyeond to stand above its competition
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
May we inquire as to what reasons they may of had? This community has been left in the dark with virtually zero communication from the new owners.
It is easy to imagine the reason. The ones in charge probably wanted to try to get more money per single customer without accepting that this is a "killing the goose that lays golden eggs" situation because the ala carte purchaces were what helped DNDbyeond to stand above its competition
It is also likely setting up the piecemeal is time consuming as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
May we inquire as to what reasons they may of had? This community has been left in the dark with virtually zero communication from the new owners.
It is easy to imagine the reason. The ones in charge probably wanted to try to get more money per single customer without accepting that this is a "killing the goose that lays golden eggs" situation because the ala carte purchaces were what helped DNDbyeond to stand above its competition
It is also likely setting up the piecemeal is time consuming as well.
Depends on what you mean by that. They'd still need to individually load all of the classes, subclasses, backgrounds, feats, etc into the platform which would be the bulk of the work. They'd then need to link all those to a sourcebook so you can unlock them in Beyond by buying that book, but unlocks would need to still be on that individual item level to continue supporting previous purchases. It's far more likely that piecemeal would, at most, mean just adding a purchase price to those individual lines. The shop pages on the website likely queried that to find what things a book unlocks and then presented those for the piecemeal purchase.
The system was already set up to support it, so at most any extra work would have just been on supporting that feature via the new online shop.
+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
May we inquire as to what reasons they may of had? This community has been left in the dark with virtually zero communication from the new owners.
It is easy to imagine the reason. The ones in charge probably wanted to try to get more money per single customer without accepting that this is a "killing the goose that lays golden eggs" situation because the ala carte purchaces were what helped DNDbyeond to stand above its competition
It is also likely setting up the piecemeal is time consuming as well.
Depends on what you mean by that. They'd still need to individually load all of the classes, subclasses, backgrounds, feats, etc into the platform which would be the bulk of the work. They'd then need to link all those to a sourcebook so you can unlock them in Beyond by buying that book, but unlocks would need to still be on that individual item level to continue supporting previous purchases. It's far more likely that piecemeal would, at most, mean just adding a purchase price to those individual lines. The shop pages on the website likely queried that to find what things a book unlocks and then presented those for the piecemeal purchase.
The system was already set up to support it, so at most any extra work would have just been on supporting that feature via the new online shop.
Given many of the requests, and complaints that have gone unaddressed for years that many of us have made coupled with posts made by staff over the years (and this is from memory and I am not going to search for the post to back this up) DDB is not the perfect database/website many assume it is and as such things are not as easy to fix/implement as many would like to believe they are. Like most thing in life we tend to oversimplify and assume perfection where it simply does not exist. Given how nonexistent wizbro communication is it is unlikely we will ever know how involved piecemeal sales actually are, those that know aren't talking likely because of many reasons which most will boil down to NDA's at the end of the day. We all know what happens when we assume.
For the record I have rarely used piecemeal in the past, and given the direction D&D appears to be going it was going to be a huge part of my purchases moving forward so I agree it is from my seat a very poor move that I would like to see reverted. That said it is not near as concerning as taking away the bundle discount stacking both sold and marketed to those that purchased them which discussion and feedback can be found here. Removing piecemeal while unsettling, was never marketed or sold like bundle discount stacking was, and before DDB there was no legal piecemeal purchasing program that I am aware of, so it's removal while dumb in many people's opinion is something that while obviously unpopular, is not that surprising along with the removal of the digital bundles that are gone as well, unlike the above mentioned discount stacking which was both sold and marketed as a part of the benefits of purchasing a digital bundle.
Well, it's official, my campaign is dead and a large part of it is my players not wanting to use Dnd Beyond for easy character sheets, and me wanting to make sure everything is coming from official sources without having to pirate books to double check everything each session. Hoping Hasbros stocks crash, also the Humblewood campaign setting is on sale for 10 bucks from their publisher.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Trying to DM | Lost my party due to removal of A la Carte options | Party no longer wants to use Beyond
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WotC owned DDB when the OGL thing went down ( actually they bought it beginning of ‘22, OGL gate started late ‘22, so didn’t take them long.)
just as now, as it was then, it’s profit over people. And once again it will be the people who tell the company “sorry, you have become too expensive, no profit for you.”
What is even worst for the company is the timing of it all, and the fact that corporate heads should have known better.
5e alc piecemeal is dead, what else is possibly on the chopping block?
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D&D Beyond Founders+1 to unhappy about shutting off partial purchases.
I totally understand the reasons behind it - we discussed them frequently enough - but it was such a positive, pro-consumer feature of the site that we always concluded it should stay, even with the difficulties it caused.
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May we inquire as to what reasons they may of had? This community has been left in the dark with virtually zero communication from the new owners.
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[Flourishing], [Sanguine],[Themberchaud], [Baldur's Gate 3], [Lego].You can inquire as much as you want, we're either never getting an official answer (more likely), or the answer will come due to sales drop, not because of actual complaints (less likely).
I would also like to know what these difficulties were.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, more than anything I would just like better communication of any kind from WotC with the community. When people are clamoring for a response, at this point any response, this continued radio silence feels almost contemptuous.
look back at older post here on site. The biggest is the contrast between an alc piecemeal system or a tiered subscription model.
The subscription model has the major flaw of it only takes a few consumers to run the profits into a one and done type system, and account abuse would be rampant.
The issue with a-la-carte that i’ve ever seen anywhere is when there is a wide production sale, and the occasional situation where a consumer buys just enough alc to overpay a sale, and now the company has to decide how to deal with that new issue. ( noticed how all alc piecemeal deals now have to go though an extensive ticket process, simple solution to complex issue, kill alc and see how many will attempt to deal with the hassle of getting that discount verses just eating the cost.)
I’m fairly sure this last 50% off sale, that was short for whatever reason, ( would really, really, really like to truly know how the changes have effected sales numbers, but we will get whatever spin the company will put on the numbers when the second quarter financials come out, just about the same time the new edition rolls out. Should be interesting. ), and I can only guess it was because wizbro knew the numbers were going to be low.
I just truly and honestly feel most sorry for Stormknight and the founders of the site. Having to watch a labor of love go through such troubling times must be gut wrenching.
But as they say, “That which does not kill you just pisses you off more, and makes you stronger, faster, smarter, and more determined to prove one persons trash is another persons treasure.”
An absolutely disgusting choice on WotC part.
Almost certainly "it's a lot of work to maintain", and I don't think that answer would appease anyone.
I didn't post here at all during the OGL issue. It was a problem that affected all of D&D and was already being combatted on multiple fronts. I haven't seen nearly as wide pushback to this change because it only affects D&D Beyond, which not everyone uses. That's why I'm posting here. The marketplace ought to be rolled back. I've found myself so many times clicking an item I wanted, seeing it locked behind a full book purchase, and then turning away where I would have normally bought the individual item instead.
I have a theory, for what it's worth. I think it has a lot to do with the VTT. Is it a lot of work to maintain the code for rach new class, subclass, creature, item, spell etc that comes out in a new book? Possibly, but at the end of the day, it's just text on a page...it can't be impossibly hard
But, now picture that each new spell has to be paired with a rendered 3D image and animation, in order to use it in a graphics-heavy VTT. Each monster has to be designed and animated and programmed with how it interacts with a map and all the bells and whistles that go along with it. I can easily see the time and cost and effort to build that out to be too much for a la carte purchasing. You throw a lot of developer resources into each element and so your vtt content comes from a Volo's Guide bundle, priced to offset the development costs
They're not going to want to remove a popular feature to support the vtt when it rolls out, because that generates a lot of bad blood for a key product. So instead, we pull a la carte pricing early, to lay the groundwork.
Absolutely zero evidence to suggest any of this is true, pure speculation. But it could explain the decision, and also why details behind the decision making process are scarce.
"Dear customer,
We were having a difficulty feeding our greed at your expense. So instead of allowing you to purchase pieces and parts of a book convenient to you, we are now forcing you to buy the entire book. Nope, not even bundles, just the whole book or nothing. We were also not going to tell you about it. Ever. We will also ignore you and everyone else's feedback as the only feedback we understand is if we are obtaining your money or not. Have a wonderful day!
Unofficially since we haven't said anything about it,
-WotC"
Sound about right?
It is easy to imagine the reason. The ones in charge probably wanted to try to get more money per single customer without accepting that this is a "killing the goose that lays golden eggs" situation because the ala carte purchaces were what helped DNDbyeond to stand above its competition
It is also likely setting up the piecemeal is time consuming as well.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I guess they won't be getting anymore of my money then.
I don't want a bunch of junk I won't use (likes the monsters), I want to be able to purchase bits and pieces of things I WILL use.
Such a shame to see such an amazing feature stripped away from us due to nothing but pure greed.
The individual things are the only thing i was ever going to use. Guess that's my dndbeyond subscription gone!
Depends on what you mean by that. They'd still need to individually load all of the classes, subclasses, backgrounds, feats, etc into the platform which would be the bulk of the work. They'd then need to link all those to a sourcebook so you can unlock them in Beyond by buying that book, but unlocks would need to still be on that individual item level to continue supporting previous purchases. It's far more likely that piecemeal would, at most, mean just adding a purchase price to those individual lines. The shop pages on the website likely queried that to find what things a book unlocks and then presented those for the piecemeal purchase.
The system was already set up to support it, so at most any extra work would have just been on supporting that feature via the new online shop.
Given many of the requests, and complaints that have gone unaddressed for years that many of us have made coupled with posts made by staff over the years (and this is from memory and I am not going to search for the post to back this up) DDB is not the perfect database/website many assume it is and as such things are not as easy to fix/implement as many would like to believe they are. Like most thing in life we tend to oversimplify and assume perfection where it simply does not exist. Given how nonexistent wizbro communication is it is unlikely we will ever know how involved piecemeal sales actually are, those that know aren't talking likely because of many reasons which most will boil down to NDA's at the end of the day. We all know what happens when we assume.
For the record I have rarely used piecemeal in the past, and given the direction D&D appears to be going it was going to be a huge part of my purchases moving forward so I agree it is from my seat a very poor move that I would like to see reverted. That said it is not near as concerning as taking away the bundle discount stacking both sold and marketed to those that purchased them which discussion and feedback can be found here. Removing piecemeal while unsettling, was never marketed or sold like bundle discount stacking was, and before DDB there was no legal piecemeal purchasing program that I am aware of, so it's removal while dumb in many people's opinion is something that while obviously unpopular, is not that surprising along with the removal of the digital bundles that are gone as well, unlike the above mentioned discount stacking which was both sold and marketed as a part of the benefits of purchasing a digital bundle.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Well, it's official, my campaign is dead and a large part of it is my players not wanting to use Dnd Beyond for easy character sheets, and me wanting to make sure everything is coming from official sources without having to pirate books to double check everything each session. Hoping Hasbros stocks crash, also the Humblewood campaign setting is on sale for 10 bucks from their publisher.
Trying to DM | Lost my party due to removal of A la Carte options | Party no longer wants to use Beyond