I was super excited to use DnD Beyond when it went into Beta, and I have enjoyed using it so far in one of my current campaigns. However, as I've read through all the pricing information currently out there, it's become apparent that I'm going to have to re-purchase all the DnD content that I already physically own. (In my case, that's the PHB). I'm more than happy to pay a subscription fee to use the online application; that's what appeals to me most, really. I already have all the information at hand...DnD Beyond provides a great way to automate the number crunching and character choices that go into building and maintaining characters. But the fact that I have to buy something I already have is very off-putting.
Am I missing something? I'm sorry to say that I won't be paying for DnD beyond, nor using it at all in the future (nor recommending it to other DnD players I know) if my understanding of this pricing model is correct
I was super excited to use DnD Beyond when it went into Beta, and I have enjoyed using it so far in one of my current campaigns. However, as I've read through all the pricing information currently out there, it's become apparent that I'm going to have to re-purchase all the DnD content that I already physically own. (In my case, that's the PHB). I'm more than happy to pay a subscription fee to use the online application; that's what appeals to me most, really. I already have all the information at hand...DnD Beyond provides a great way to automate the number crunching and character choices that go into building and maintaining characters. But the fact that I have to buy something I already have is very off-putting.
Am I missing something? I'm sorry to say that I won't be paying for DnD beyond, nor using it at all in the future (nor recommending it to other DnD players I know) if my understanding of this pricing model is correct
have fun reading it. Hope you have lots of free time BTW i understand your point but go read you will see all the good points that been made there but there is one Major point to think about... no one forces you to buy anything here you can still play with pens and paper without probleme. Its a choice people made ... for my part i dont have any physical books from the 5e edition and moving from AD&D 2nd edition to 5e its a very good price considering that i save money over the physical books also there is constent evolution on the tools here and if one day they offer different language of the content like its the case with the physical books i will save even more money because here in canada a french PHB its like 90$ cdn but the content for the PHB in english on DDB cost me 19.99$ us with the first week discount and i can use that content in the tools its a bonus
Wasn't aware that another topic existed. Thought I'd looked for it, but oh well.
My pain isn't that the prices aren't fair - I really don't care how much they're charging for digital content. I also don't "mind" using the "free" version, except that you don't have access to pretty basic DnD material that's present in the PHB. My point is that they are, in a way, punishing players who've already shelled out for physical content; I'll have bought the same thing twice, which isn't something reasonable to expect from anybody, which means I won't be paying for this service.
My point is that they are, in a way, punishing players who've already shelled out for physical content
No. Emphatically no, not even "in a way".
When a person paid for physical content, that person weighed the price vs. what they were getting for it (i.e. ~$50 for a book with solid production quality and 300-ish pages of game content to use) and decided it was worth the price. To then turn around and say that being asked to pay for something more and different is "punishment" is absolute nonsense - sure, you can be bummed out about it and wish it weren't the case, but that doesn't actually make it unfair in any way, and it's not "punishment" because you still got everything you originally paid for at the price you obviously thought was worth it (since if you didn't think it was worth it, you wouldn't have bought it).
Wasn't aware that another topic existed. Thought I'd looked for it, but oh well.
My pain isn't that the prices aren't fair - I really don't care how much they're charging for digital content. I also don't "mind" using the "free" version, except that you don't have access to pretty basic DnD material that's present in the PHB. My point is that they are, in a way, punishing players who've already shelled out for physical content; I'll have bought the same thing twice, which isn't something reasonable to expect from anybody, which means I won't be paying for this service.
This is like saying that a movie studio is punishing people who bought the DVD of Star Wars by releasing it on Blu-Ray years later. It's a piss-poor argument. If you don't see any added value by buying it on DDB, that's your choice (just like people who don't see any added value in a Blu-Ray have a choice to not buy it), but complaining about it being unfair or saying that you're being punished is complete BS.
The added value argument imo is the best argument as to why paying "again" makes sense. You're paying for a very, very different product. Your paying for the integration of a robust digital toolset. I for one would love for WotC and Curse to work out some kind of discount for owners of physical media going forward, but I don't regret buying content on DDB even a little. They are two different products with different uses.
(One thing that I do think isn't necessarily apparent before you buy access to content you "already own" is just how different these products are and how beneficial the integration into the digital toolset actually is. With just the SRD content I think it's actually difficult to really get how different and impressive DDB really is.)
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DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder) Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
I absolutely agree with you LeboyX... The only feature I would use in DDB is the character generator... The cost off buying all the digital content to cover all the physical books I have an absolute rip off.. I will be passing on this cash grab of a product.
I absolutely agree with you LeboyX... The only feature I would use in DDB is the character generator... The cost off buying all the digital content to cover all the physical books I have an absolute rip off.. I will be passing on this cash grab of a product.
The character builder content alone for all books would set you back a total of $80 and you can buy it a bit at a time.
To the staff: again I'd like to emphasize the need for a character builder bundle.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
When a person paid for physical content, that person weighed the price vs. what they were getting for it (i.e. ~$50 for a book with solid production quality and 300-ish pages of game content to use) and decided it was worth the price. To then turn around and say that being asked to pay for something more and different is "punishment" is absolute nonsense - sure, you can be bummed out about it and wish it weren't the case, but that doesn't actually make it unfair in any way, and it's not "punishment" because you still got everything you originally paid for at the price you obviously thought was worth it (since if you didn't think it was worth it, you wouldn't have bought it).
I agree that it's something "more", but it's not different. You are, literally, buying the same content that it's in the PHB. Word-for-word, it's identical. What you're actually paying them to do is let you integrate it with their app. The "cost" of integrating one piece of content (a race, a class, a magic weapon, etc.) compared to any other is negligible...there's no extra effort to integrate 1 race vs. all of them.
The person that bought the PHB also didn't even have the chance to consider other, legal alternatives. DnD Beyond didn't exist. So, for players who already paid WotC to legally use the content, their physical content is worthless if they wish to play using this online tool. They have to pay for 2 things, now: An ongoing subscription service to use the app, which is perfectly fair; the same content they already own. They already have the content...all they want is the app. But, they must pay for both. The fact that a "digital" copy isn't the same thing is absurd in this instance. The overall price for digital content is even the same as the physical (once sales are over, anyway).
If a player has purchased content or a subscription, they should be able to use it regardless of the context. Does Netflix individually charge you to use their app on computers, TVs, phones, or tablets? No. That makes no sense.
That's the principle, anyway. I understand that implementing such a thing is a totally different story. Physical content has no unique ID w/ which players could prove they own a legal copy, and thus deserve access to digital content as well. 'Cause that's really the kind of system you'd need. And I guess, at the end of the day, that's just really unfortunate.
This is like saying that a movie studio is punishing people who bought the DVD of Star Wars by releasing it on Blu-Ray years later. It's a piss-poor argument. If you don't see any added value by buying it on DDB, that's your choice (just like people who don't see any added value in a Blu-Ray have a choice to not buy it), but complaining about it being unfair or saying that you're being punished is complete BS.
No. No it is not. Once you purchase a DVD, you can play it wherever you want, on whatever you want, whenever you want. A Blu-Ray isn't identical to the thing you purchased. Purchasing content on DnD Beyond is, literally, purchasing the same content you already own. To use your example, DnD Beyond is more like a system w/ which you can easily watch that DVD with other people. You can all comment on parts of the movie, play/rewind/etc together, and things like that. But, you can't put the DVD you own into the system. Even if all people involved own the same DVD (i.e. content), you still can't. You're all required to buy a different, "special" DVD that's the same in all ways, except this system accepts it. So you'll have two copies of the same thing.
The argument isn't piss-poor, and neither is your counter. There's no need to take it personal or get salty.
When a person paid for physical content, that person weighed the price vs. what they were getting for it (i.e. ~$50 for a book with solid production quality and 300-ish pages of game content to use) and decided it was worth the price. To then turn around and say that being asked to pay for something more and different is "punishment" is absolute nonsense - sure, you can be bummed out about it and wish it weren't the case, but that doesn't actually make it unfair in any way, and it's not "punishment" because you still got everything you originally paid for at the price you obviously thought was worth it (since if you didn't think it was worth it, you wouldn't have bought it).
I agree that it's something "more", but it's not different. You are, literally, buying the same content that it's in the PHB. Word-for-word, it's identical. What you're actually paying them to do is let you integrate it with their app. The "cost" of integrating one piece of content (a race, a class, a magic weapon, etc.) compared to any other is negligible...there's no extra effort to integrate 1 race vs. all of them.
The person that bought the PHB also didn't even have the chance to consider other, legal alternatives. DnD Beyond didn't exist. So, for players who already paid WotC to legally use the content, their physical content is worthless if they wish to play using this online tool. They have to pay for 2 things, now: An ongoing subscription service to use the app, which is perfectly fair; the same content they already own. They already have the content...all they want is the app. But, they must pay for both. The fact that a "digital" copy isn't the same thing is absurd in this instance. The overall price for digital content is even the same as the physical (once sales are over, anyway).
If a player has purchased content or a subscription, they should be able to use it regardless of the context. Does Netflix individually charge you to use their app on computers, TVs, phones, or tablets? No. That makes no sense.
That's the principle, anyway. I understand that implementing such a thing is a totally different story. Physical content has no unique ID w/ which players could prove they own a legal copy, and thus deserve access to digital content as well. 'Cause that's really the kind of system you'd need. And I guess, at the end of the day, that's just really unfortunate.
I don't pay a subscription and have no problems using the service, I have also purchase the 3 core books, LMOP and the new tortle package. So really it just comes down to paying for what you want or need, or waiting for the tools so that you can manually input all that information yourself. This is a very tired and old argument and like the other posts that have popped up I'm hoping this one is locked soon.
I agree that it's something "more", but it's not different. You are, literally, buying the same content that it's in the PHB. Word-for-word, it's identical.[/quote]
A book, which can only have its content read as laid out and printed, is absolutely different from those same words re-arrangeable by the reader.
Imagine one as a filled-out table inserted into a text document (i.e. Word document), and the other as the same information in a spread sheet (i.e. an Excel sheet). Different.
...there's no extra effort to integrate 1 race vs. all of them.
False.
The person that bought the PHB also didn't even have the chance to consider other, legal alternatives.
Irrelevant. It doesn't at all matter that a person had no idea that some other option would eventually become available - all that matters is whether what is offered now for the price being asked for it is enough of a value to that person for them to make their purchase. If they do, they got what they paid for and have no right to expect more. If they don't, then they have nothing to imagine as a reason to complain when a later product they'd prefer becomes available.
...their physical content is worthless if they wish to play using this online tool.
False. The physical content still has the same use as it always has, even if the customer no longer has a use for it. Also, the customer hasn't suddenly not spent the last however long using the physical content to play the game, so even if it will not be used any further it has still been useful to the customer.
They have to pay for 2 things, now...
Also false. Subscription is optional and completely separate from content purchases. And no one "has to" buy either - D&D Beyond is free in its basic form, just like the D&D 5th edition game. You want more than the basics, you have purchase options to get more content and subscription options to get different non-content features.
The overall price for digital content is even the same as the physical (once sales are over, anyway).
More false statements. The overall price for digital content is steeply discounted from the price of the physical content - because the MSRP, not whatever discount you might be able to find, is the price. The recently released Tomb of Annihilation is $49.95 for a physical copy, and $24.99 on D&D Beyond. That's nearly half price. And if you go all-in with D&D Beyond, you actually get even pricing than paying only almost half because of the legendary bundle.
If a player has purchased content or a subscription, they should be able to use it regardless of the context. Does Netflix individually charge you to use their app on computers, TVs, phones, or tablets? No. That makes no sense
D&D Beyond does let you use your purchased content or subscription regardless of content - they do not charge individually for using the service on a computer, phone, tablet, or whatever can run it.
Your analogue to Netflix doesn't make sense in the way you've made it - you should have focused on how Netflix doesn't have individual pricing for each film/show offered, since that could me made into an analogue of how D&D Beyond requires specific content purchases. I'd have countered with Amazon, though, since their streaming service has more of an analogue to D&D Beyond since you can use it without making specific content purchases, but it also has content you can only get if you pay for it specifically.
The "cost" of integrating one piece of content (a race, a class, a magic weapon, etc.) compared to any other is negligible...there's no extra effort to integrate 1 race vs. all of them.
This isn't true at all. The man-hours that go into entering the content and then testing it for 1 race is not anywhere near the same as doing it for all of them
The person that bought the PHB also didn't even have the chance to consider other, legal alternatives. DnD Beyond didn't exist.
I couldn't help but laugh at this. Guess I'll go take my parents' vinyl collection to Apple Headquarters and demand a digital copy of everything, because, you know, iTunes didn't exist so I couldn't consider any other legal alternatives.
So, for players who already paid WotC to legally use the content, their physical content is worthless if they wish to play using this online tool.
They're different systems. If I pay for a hardcover book, I don't get access to it on my Kindle or iPad, do I?
They have to pay for 2 things, now: An ongoing subscription service to use the app, which is perfectly fair; the same content they already own. They already have the content...all they want is the app. But, they must pay for both. The fact that a "digital" copy isn't the same thing is absurd in this instance. The overall price for digital content is even the same as the physical (once sales are over, anyway).
You actually don't have to pay for any of it, that's your choice as a consumer. And also, a subscription is in no way necessary to use this tool. The overall price is not the same, as MSRP for most of these books is $50 and they're being sold for $25-$30 on here (in the majority of cases).
Does Netflix individually charge you to use their app on computers, TVs, phones, or tablets?
No, but fun fact, they do charge separately for physical books discs and digital books videos. (See the similarities?)
Once you purchase a DVD, you can play it wherever you want, on whatever you want, whenever you want.
Except as a digital file.
A Blu-Ray isn't identical to the thing you purchased. Purchasing content on DnD Beyond is, literally, purchasing the same content you already own.
A Blu-Ray IS identical to the DVD I purchased, it's literally the same content, except with more pixel density. If a company rereleases a film without adding any features, than it is exactly identical. D&D Beyond is ADDING features.
To use your example, DnD Beyond is more like a system w/ which you can easily watch that DVD with other people. You can all comment on parts of the movie, play/rewind/etc together, and things like that. But, you can't put the DVD you own into the system. Even if all people involved own the same DVD (i.e. content), you still can't. You're all required to buy a different, "special" DVD that's the same in all ways, except this system accepts it. So you'll have two copies of the same thing.
No, to use my example D&D Beyond is like if my TV has a service (say Vudu) to rent movies but doesn't have a DVD player, I have to buy the same content from Vudu to play it because my DVD isn't supported by either my TV or Vudu. Also, exactly 1 person needs to buy the content if you get the subscription. Or even if you don't and just use one person's account to make everyone's characters and then print out the sheets.
There's no need to take it personal or get salty.
Not taking this personally, it's just gotten very old seeing the same exact thread that's complaining about the pricing be started over and over and over again and I can only imagine how the devs feel having to put up with this.
Can all the folks who are like, so mad about buying content twice go somewhere else and be mad about having to buy their content twice when D&D Reader comes out? Maybe looking at the official e-versions of the books will be enough to convince them of DDB's added value. Then again, probably not.
I don't mean to be snippy but can we PLEASE stop having this argument every three days.
Can all the folks who are like, so mad about buying content twice go somewhere else and be mad about having to buy their content twice when D&D Reader comes out? Maybe looking at the official e-versions of the books will be enough to convince them of DDB's added value. Then again, probably not.
I don't mean to be snippy but can we PLEASE stop having this argument every three days.
I'm convinced that it's Russian bots and trolls at this point.
I actually don't see any harm in letting a company know you are disapointed and don't see value in their product.... Its great feed back for them. If the topic really is popping up every few days then maybe they is a larger market share they are missing out on.
Myself I am only looking for a complete character builder... I don't see the value of buying a a full online version of the hard copy product I already have.. I don't need comprehensive descriptions of what each ability/skill/proficiency does.. so their product is not for me... I would be willing to pay for said product but. I am not willing to pay the dollars they are asking.
I actually don't see any harm in letting a company know you are disapointed and don't see value in their product.... Its great feed back for them. If the topic really is popping up every few days then maybe they is a larger market share they are missing out on.
Myself I am only looking for a complete character builder... I don't see the value of buying a a full online version of the hard copy product I already have.. I don't need comprehensive descriptions of what each ability/skill/proficiency does.. so their product is not for me... I would be willing to pay for said product but. I am not willing to pay the dollars they are asking.
If it's constructive feedback, sure. But the vast majority of the complaints on pricing have been "YOU should give me this for FREE because I bought it from a different company already". That does absolutely nothing to help, and there's absolutely no way that's going to change.
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I was super excited to use DnD Beyond when it went into Beta, and I have enjoyed using it so far in one of my current campaigns. However, as I've read through all the pricing information currently out there, it's become apparent that I'm going to have to re-purchase all the DnD content that I already physically own. (In my case, that's the PHB). I'm more than happy to pay a subscription fee to use the online application; that's what appeals to me most, really. I already have all the information at hand...DnD Beyond provides a great way to automate the number crunching and character choices that go into building and maintaining characters. But the fact that I have to buy something I already have is very off-putting.
Am I missing something? I'm sorry to say that I won't be paying for DnD beyond, nor using it at all in the future (nor recommending it to other DnD players I know) if my understanding of this pricing model is correct
Wasn't aware that another topic existed. Thought I'd looked for it, but oh well.
My pain isn't that the prices aren't fair - I really don't care how much they're charging for digital content. I also don't "mind" using the "free" version, except that you don't have access to pretty basic DnD material that's present in the PHB. My point is that they are, in a way, punishing players who've already shelled out for physical content; I'll have bought the same thing twice, which isn't something reasonable to expect from anybody, which means I won't be paying for this service.
No. Emphatically no, not even "in a way".
When a person paid for physical content, that person weighed the price vs. what they were getting for it (i.e. ~$50 for a book with solid production quality and 300-ish pages of game content to use) and decided it was worth the price. To then turn around and say that being asked to pay for something more and different is "punishment" is absolute nonsense - sure, you can be bummed out about it and wish it weren't the case, but that doesn't actually make it unfair in any way, and it's not "punishment" because you still got everything you originally paid for at the price you obviously thought was worth it (since if you didn't think it was worth it, you wouldn't have bought it).
The added value argument imo is the best argument as to why paying "again" makes sense. You're paying for a very, very different product. Your paying for the integration of a robust digital toolset. I for one would love for WotC and Curse to work out some kind of discount for owners of physical media going forward, but I don't regret buying content on DDB even a little. They are two different products with different uses.
(One thing that I do think isn't necessarily apparent before you buy access to content you "already own" is just how different these products are and how beneficial the integration into the digital toolset actually is. With just the SRD content I think it's actually difficult to really get how different and impressive DDB really is.)
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
I absolutely agree with you LeboyX... The only feature I would use in DDB is the character generator... The cost off buying all the digital content to cover all the physical books I have an absolute rip off.. I will be passing on this cash grab of a product.
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I agree that it's something "more", but it's not different. You are, literally, buying the same content that it's in the PHB. Word-for-word, it's identical. What you're actually paying them to do is let you integrate it with their app. The "cost" of integrating one piece of content (a race, a class, a magic weapon, etc.) compared to any other is negligible...there's no extra effort to integrate 1 race vs. all of them.
The person that bought the PHB also didn't even have the chance to consider other, legal alternatives. DnD Beyond didn't exist. So, for players who already paid WotC to legally use the content, their physical content is worthless if they wish to play using this online tool. They have to pay for 2 things, now: An ongoing subscription service to use the app, which is perfectly fair; the same content they already own. They already have the content...all they want is the app. But, they must pay for both. The fact that a "digital" copy isn't the same thing is absurd in this instance. The overall price for digital content is even the same as the physical (once sales are over, anyway).
If a player has purchased content or a subscription, they should be able to use it regardless of the context. Does Netflix individually charge you to use their app on computers, TVs, phones, or tablets? No. That makes no sense.
No. No it is not. Once you purchase a DVD, you can play it wherever you want, on whatever you want, whenever you want. A Blu-Ray isn't identical to the thing you purchased. Purchasing content on DnD Beyond is, literally, purchasing the same content you already own. To use your example, DnD Beyond is more like a system w/ which you can easily watch that DVD with other people. You can all comment on parts of the movie, play/rewind/etc together, and things like that. But, you can't put the DVD you own into the system. Even if all people involved own the same DVD (i.e. content), you still can't. You're all required to buy a different, "special" DVD that's the same in all ways, except this system accepts it. So you'll have two copies of the same thing.
The argument isn't piss-poor, and neither is your counter. There's no need to take it personal or get salty.
A book, which can only have its content read as laid out and printed, is absolutely different from those same words re-arrangeable by the reader.
Imagine one as a filled-out table inserted into a text document (i.e. Word document), and the other as the same information in a spread sheet (i.e. an Excel sheet). Different.
False.Your analogue to Netflix doesn't make sense in the way you've made it - you should have focused on how Netflix doesn't have individual pricing for each film/show offered, since that could me made into an analogue of how D&D Beyond requires specific content purchases. I'd have countered with Amazon, though, since their streaming service has more of an analogue to D&D Beyond since you can use it without making specific content purchases, but it also has content you can only get if you pay for it specifically.
booksdiscs and digitalbooksvideos. (See the similarities?)I think you forgot to mention that D&D Beyond is not produced by the people who produce D&D.
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Can all the folks who are like, so mad about buying content twice go somewhere else and be mad about having to buy their content twice when D&D Reader comes out? Maybe looking at the official e-versions of the books will be enough to convince them of DDB's added value. Then again, probably not.
I don't mean to be snippy but can we PLEASE stop having this argument every three days.
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)
I actually don't see any harm in letting a company know you are disapointed and don't see value in their product.... Its great feed back for them. If the topic really is popping up every few days then maybe they is a larger market share they are missing out on.
Myself I am only looking for a complete character builder... I don't see the value of buying a a full online version of the hard copy product I already have.. I don't need comprehensive descriptions of what each ability/skill/proficiency does.. so their product is not for me... I would be willing to pay for said product but. I am not willing to pay the dollars they are asking.