I'm sure they could do something like registration codes in PC games covered with scratch-off material to preserve the integrity of the code as much as possible. Still looking forward to seeing where the acquisition takes us as far as integration goes.
I'm sure they could do something like registration codes in PC games covered with scratch-off material to preserve the integrity of the code as much as possible. Still looking forward to seeing where the acquisition takes us as far as integration goes.
which increases manufacturing costs, leading to a price rise *somewhere* in the line, and such rises are usually foisted onto the customer by increasing the price of each book by anywhere from "insignificant" to "what do you mean it's now $40 per book?"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
If I had known I had to re-purchase all of the material to use it on this website, I would not have paid for a one-year "Master" tier subscription. I am getting back into D&D with my teenage son, after a very long break. I learned AD&D with the first-edition rules, back in the early 1980s. I had hoped this service would be an easy way for us to create characters, but I didn't know that I would have to essentially repurchase ALL of the books digitally, immediately after forking out several hundred dollars for multiple copies of the physical books.
I assumed the "master tier" subscription would grant me access to the content, and that doesn't seem to be the case. I have a MAJOR case of buyer's remorse. I don't care about reading the books online -- I have physical copies for that. However, having to pay extra to use a character class from "Monster's of the Multiverse" is infuriating. 🤬
I assumed the "master tier" subscription would grant me access to the content, and that doesn't seem to be the case.
There's the problem there - when you are going to be paying for anything, never assume anything - If you read the Subscription pages carefully, it doesn't say anywhere that you get access to the Digital Books for free. I'm sorry that you didn't check beforehand - you might be able to get in touch with the support staff, let them know the situation and see if they can't refund you?
If you are just wanting to buy a couple of things (e.g. a certain Class that you mentioned from MotM), you can go to the Marketplace and buy things 'piecemeal', thereby only buying the things you want from a book. Plus, anything you pay towards the book is discounted off the total book should you later decide to buy the whole thing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
With the latest bundle on dndbeyond, it looks like physical/virtual bundles may be a thing (depending on how this test goes). However. It feels bad that legendary bundle discounts don't apply to this bundle. I'd love to hear future plans from WotC.
Like what? Guys this is just a book. Give people the option of something other than "ParcelConnect Priority DDU" for shipping if you want people to buy the physical product from here. Because that is an insane cost to ship a book from the US to Canada.
Like what? Guys this is just a book. Give people the option of something other than "ParcelConnect Priority DDU" for shipping if you want people to buy the physical product from here. Because that is an insane cost to ship a book from the US to Canada.
For context, where I work we ship packages, far heavier than a book, from the UK to customers all over the US. It costs $20.
We're further away with an ocean between us. Yet our shipping is half the price than these delivery charges.
C'mon Wizards.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
The Physical/Digital Bundles are nothing short of gouging; full price for both products plus a minimum of a 50% price increase for shipping. So incredibly disappointing. If you want to know why people will either only buy physical copes or digital copies they then print from home, this is why.
There is nothing wrong with price gouging in this case. First off, D&D can already be played for absolutely free; while you might not get the exact mechanics in the latest sourcebooks, you will still get a very close approximation of them in UA, which is freaking free and is often more experimental and exciting than the final published version. Second, TTRPGs are not some critical necessity that people need to live and survive off of, it is a luxury good that businesses should feel free to charge however much they want so they can take care of their suppliers and employees properly. Thirdly, there is still a supply chain issue going on, and people need to realize that if they are just a regular individual consumer, they are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of priority, they are insignificant chump change in the grand scheme of things, and they are not even remorly special deserving of any extra attention or care. Just like everyone else, individual consumers will have to either wait at the back of the line, pay up to skip it, or get out of the line for people who will gladly pay for it.
To me, what is disappointing are entitled people throwing away free cafeteria lunches and demand that they be served a five course meal instead by chefs and butlers. Chefs and butlers are under no obligation to provide their services for free to people who do not deserve them.
'....Lamoon01 needs to update the information in his first post because none of it is accurate....'
'....Your posts are littered with misinformation and propaganda....
First of all, I appreciate the time you took to personally attack a random stranger on the internet.
Secondly, just picking one example, the Master Tier Subscription allows you to create unlimited encounters in the Encounter Builder. That is factually correct - unlike your post where you say 'none of it is accurate'. In future, don't make sweeping generalised statements.
Thirdly, I am more than happy to receive criticism/ways to improve the information in this thread. As I've previously stated, I'm just another site user - nothing special. I created this as a compendium to help and inform people. If you cannot add to the discussion and/or persist in attacking other site users, please kindly find another outlet for your issues that is not the D&D Beyond forums.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
'....Lamoon01 needs to update the information in his first post because none of it is accurate....'
'....Your posts are littered with misinformation and propaganda....
First of all, I appreciate the time you took to personally attack a random stranger on the internet.
Secondly, just picking one example, the Master Tier Subscription allows you to create unlimited encounters in the Encounter Builder. That is factually correct - unlike your post where you say 'none of it is accurate'. In future, don't make sweeping generalised statements.
Thirdly, I am more than happy to receive criticism/ways to improve the information in this thread. As I've previously stated, I'm just another site user - nothing special. I created this as a compendium to help and inform people. If you cannot add to the discussion and/or persist in attacking other site users, please kindly find another outlet for your issues that is not the D&D Beyond forums.
There was no "personal attack", your post is incorrect and outdated. That is not an insult, it is the truth. In the future, dont make the topic about you when it is about the information. You can go on pontificating now.
The Physical/Digital Bundles are nothing short of gouging; full price for both products plus a minimum of a 50% price increase for shipping. So incredibly disappointing. If you want to know why people will either only buy physical copes or digital copies they then print from home, this is why.
There is nothing wrong with price gouging in this case. First off, D&D can already be played for absolutely free; while you might not get the exact mechanics in the latest sourcebooks, you will still get a very close approximation of them in UA, which is freaking free and is often more experimental and exciting than the final published version. Second, TTRPGs are not some critical necessity that people need to live and survive off of, it is a luxury good that businesses should feel free to charge however much they want so they can take care of their suppliers and employees properly. Thirdly, there is still a supply chain issue going on, and people need to realize that if they are just a regular individual consumer, they are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of priority, they are insignificant chump change in the grand scheme of things, and they are not even remorly special deserving of any extra attention or care. Just like everyone else, individual consumers will have to either wait at the back of the line, pay up to skip it, or get out of the line for people who will gladly pay for it.
To me, what is disappointing are entitled people throwing away free cafeteria lunches and demand that they be served a five course meal instead by chefs and butlers. Chefs and butlers are under no obligation to provide their services for free to people who do not deserve them.
Firstly, price gouging is never the correct course of action.
Secondly, you cannot play all of D&D for "freaking free" on the website we are currently having this conversation and UA is not cannon. League of Legends is 100% free to play, D&D is not.
Thirdly, you are confusing separate issues. Only food, water, shelter, and wealth are critical necessities, everything else is a convenience or luxury so that argument is silly. Businesses can charge anything they want for their products. Consumers decide whether or not that price is justified; I argue it is not. And unless you have intimate knowledge of how they treat suppliers and employees I do not think you can make the assumption that the reason for the pricing is to give them extra money.
Fourthly, I seriously doubt Hasbro is at the bottom of the barrel and the "supply chain" argument is no longer appropriate.
Fifthly, how are we on the topic of anecdotal cafeteria food, chefs, and butlers?
Can Wizards charge whatever they choose? Certainly. Do I think that $30.00 for source material is outrageous? No, its a fair price. However, forcing the consumer base to choose between paying full price for digital or full price + shipping for a hardcover is shortsighted. Only children spending their parents money, the extremely wealthy, or the elitist who somehow thinks paying twice the price makes them better than those who don't, will not care about the cost.
The smart thing for Wizards to do is to give access to both when you buy one (or maybe a small increase for the digital with the physical). Why? Because people will still subscribe to D&D Beyond and will pay for the the digital maps, content, dice, and other bells and whistles. Plus, who would order a hardcover online for a minimum of a $13 increase when they can get it from their local book store or Amazon without shipping? it just does not make sense.
Firstly, price gouging is never the correct course of action.
There are situations where price gouging is the correct course of action. When there is high demand and supplies are limited, you generally want to charge the highest price possible to earn the most profit. And selling physical and digital bundle for its current price is not even anywhere remotely close to price gouging. It is literally just the MSRP prices of both products combined together, nowhere near five to ten times the MSRP price that scalpers and collectors would sell books with alt covers for.
Secondly, you cannot play all of D&D for "freaking free" on the website we are currently having this conversation and UA is not cannon. League of Legends is 100% free to play, D&D is not.
People seriously need to get the idea out of their head that Beyond is required to play D&D. Beyond is NOT necessary to play D&D, and people have been playing D&D with pen and paper for decades, and there are still quite a few forum users on here who still use pen and paper despite having access to Beyond's character builder.
D&D is also far more accessible than League of Legends; League does not even come close. You can go to your local public library and print out the Basic Rules/SRD and a few character sheets for a couple dollars or possibly even free, and you can start playing D&D right away. You need to own a computer and access to internet to play League. Canonicity does not matter, UA is freaking free for Christ's sake, you make do with what you have access to, and UA often have more experimental and interesting mechanics than its official published counterparts. If you want to play in AL, you can simply ask others if you can borrow their book to create a character, and more often than not, people will be more than willing to.
If you are still stuck on on the idea that you need Beyond to play D&D, you can use the homebrew tools and manually integrate the stuff into Beyond from your physical books yourself. It is a pain in the ass to do and it takes a long time, but that is pretty fair if you do not want to spend a dime on Beyond. People who have invested in and built Beyond did not do it for free and they deserve to be compensated for it, and charging for that integration convenience is a good way to earn that compensation.
Thirdly, you are confusing separate issues. Only food, water, shelter, and wealth are critical necessities, everything else is a convenience or luxury so that argument is silly. Businesses can charge anything they want for their products. Consumers decide whether or not that price is justified; I argue it is not. And unless you have intimate knowledge of how they treat suppliers and employees I do not think you can make the assumption that the reason for the pricing is to give them extra money.
I am glad that you understand that consumers can vote with their wallet and go elsewhere. If you do not think the price is justified, then go elsewhere. If you do not want to pay for it, that is more than fine, because there is a long line of other customers who will.
I do not need to have an intimate knowledge of how they treat their suppliers and employees. It is all over the freaking news for the past several years that labor costs and material costs are rising. If business are not passing on that cost to consumers, they are either screwing over their employees, their shareholders, or somebody else along the supply chain. This is not some rocket science level news that only Ivy League graduates and defense contractors would know about.
Fourthly, I seriously doubt Hasbro is at the bottom of the barrel and the "supply chain" argument is no longer appropriate.
I was not referring to Hasbro, I was referring to individual consumers. Individual consumers are unimportant and insignificant. From time to time, they are rude, obnoxious, and are not worth catering to.
I work with business clients towards the end of the supply chain of my industry, so I know what the **** I am talking about in my little corner of the supply chain, and I imagine my suppliers upstream and other industries are still working through their kinks. Supply chains are still a mess, and businesses I work with often have to refuse service because they simply cannot source the right materials, parts, or even labor. If their customers are lucky, they have the luxury of paying an arm and leg for something and wait several months for it to arrive. If they are not lucky, they are really shit out of luck and will probably have to spend even more body parts to get something else.
Fifthly, how are we on the topic of anecdotal cafeteria food, chefs, and butlers?
It is an analogy. Hasbro, Wizards, and Beyond do not owe consumers anything if those consumers are not willing to pay up. Wizards and Beyond have already done their fair share of providing free lunches in the form of Basic Rules/SRD, various other free content, and digital tools.
Can Wizards charge whatever they choose? Certainly. Do I think that $30.00 for source material is outrageous? No, its a fair price. However, forcing the consumer base to choose between paying full price for digital or full price + shipping for a hardcover is shortsighted. Only children spending their parents money, the extremely wealthy, or the elitist who somehow thinks paying twice the price makes them better than those who don't, will not care about the cost.
The smart thing for Wizards to do is to give access to both when you buy one (or maybe a small increase for the digital with the physical). Why? Because people will still subscribe to D&D Beyond and will pay for the the digital maps, content, dice, and other bells and whistles. Plus, who would order a hardcover online for a minimum of a $13 increase when they can get it from their local book store or Amazon without shipping? it just does not make sense.
As I have said previously, people who invested in and built Beyond deserve to be compensated for their work. Beyond is already more than generous to allow free access to its homebrew tools when they could have simply locked that away behind a paywall. If you do not want pay for it in money to integrate your physical books with Beyond, then you have to pay with time and do it manually yourself using the homebrew tools.
The smart thing for Wizards to do is cover their all their expenses and maintain a healthy profit margin, not cater to individual consumers' whims on what is a reasonable price or not. Many consumers will nickel and dime you, and those that do are not worth selling nor catering to. There are plenty of customers out there who would be more than happy to compensate you fairly for your work, so there is absolutely no reason to lower yourself to cater to people who constantly lowball and devalue you. Those wannabe customers can take their nickels and dimes and shop elsewhere.
Not bothering to quote, but XXXGammaRay - WotC does not need you to protect them. Seriously.
In the end, I also find the new pricing model a pity. It's not like I don't want to pay the good folks at DNDB; I've certainly bought my fair share of books here on the site. I also absolutely agree that in the end, WotC/Hasbro are a company, and a company's goal is to make profit for itself and its shareholders.
But - and this is a big but - you'd think that when they sell a book bundle they'd apply a hefty discount so we as customers are incentivized to buy the bundle. And they do that... in the US, for US customers. I can tell you right now that buying the EU bundle for Shadow of the Dragon Queen (regular) is actually flat out more expensive than just buying them separate from DNDB and a regular store. Could be my math's off there and all, but that it's even a close thing is puzzling to me.
While I suppose that that's good for our FLGS, you'll have to excuse me when I state that I believe that kind of pricing policy to be just a little out of touch with reality on WotC/Hasbro's part.
Not bothering to quote, but XXXGammaRay - WotC does not need you to protect them. Seriously.
In the end, I also find the new pricing model a pity. It's not like I don't want to pay the good folks at DNDB; I've certainly bought my fair share of books here on the site. I also absolutely agree that in the end, WotC/Hasbro are a company, and a company's goal is to make profit for itself and its shareholders.
But - and this is a big but - you'd think that when they sell a book bundle they'd apply a hefty discount so we as customers are incentivized to buy the bundle. And they do that... in the US, for US customers. I can tell you right now that buying the EU bundle for Shadow of the Dragon Queen (regular) is actually flat out more expensive than just buying them separate from DNDB and a regular store. Could be my math's off there and all, but that it's even a close thing is puzzling to me.
While I suppose that that's good for our FLGS, you'll have to excuse me when I state that I believe that kind of pricing policy to be just a little out of touch with reality on WotC/Hasbro's part.
Then buy it separately. Wizards is not forcing anyone to buy the bundle. The only benefit from buying the regular bundle is two weeks of early access, and if that is not enough of an incentive, then do not buy it and shop elsewhere. As stated on their FAQ, they are still trying and testing things out.
The shipping fee is very high and offsets pretty much any discount off of MSRP even in the US, so I agree their pricing model is a bit out of wack, but it is out of wack for a reason, and it honestly is not really difficult to understand why due to current events and given that this is their first foray into a new distribution model. Wizards is also an American company, so it should not be surprising that they are able to offer lower prices in the United States given that this is their home turf.
I cannot telling if you are trolling or playing devil’s advocate but there is not enough time to unpack all of the untruths in your comments.
No real consumer would ever advocate for being price gouged.
Its price gouging because they are trying to force consumers to pay more than double the MSRP for the exact same content.
In what world are people scalping current D&D source material for 5 to 10 times the MSRP? How did you even come up with that valuation?
League was used as an example of something that is actually 100% F2P. No one was saying they are similar products.
No one is required to play D&D; online, on paper, or any way in-between. However, if you want to play you have three options; pay full price for hardcover + very high shipping fees, pay full price for digital content, or pay double for both.
No one is arguing that D&D Beyond staff should not be paid, this statement is moot. However, refer back to point #2
You insinuation that people should not voice their discontent because it does not align with your opinion is very insulting. We can disagree and be able to voice that disagreement.
You do need to be able to back up your arguments with actual facts. Otherwise, anything you say holds zero value.
YOU ACTUALLY THINK COSUMERS ARE INSIGNIFICANT?! Okay corporate fanboy
You, allegedly, working someone in the supply chain field does not make you an expert on how the market and industry function. It’s the same as suggesting that if a person who physically manufactures computer chips then they know everything about how processors work.
Yes, Hasbro and WotC do not owe consumers anything. But they should at minimum respect them if they want to continue to have them.
Again, you are confusing the issues. There is a huge difference between compensation and outright greed. WotC will still earn money without charging double for the same content. Digital content has almost zero overhead because there is no production cost (i.e. printing, paper, labor, distribution, etc.). D&D Beyond has to either ban homebrew content or allow it to be free because they DO NOT OWN IT. Also, the consumers want that content so it makes business sense for them to provide a vehicle for it.
If you really want to pay extra for all of your goods then do it. Send them a personal check as a donation for whatever amount you feel you need to pay in excess. The rest of us will pay what we consider to be a fair price.
Not bothering to quote, but XXXGammaRay - WotC does not need you to protect them. Seriously.
In the end, I also find the new pricing model a pity. It's not like I don't want to pay the good folks at DNDB; I've certainly bought my fair share of books here on the site. I also absolutely agree that in the end, WotC/Hasbro are a company, and a company's goal is to make profit for itself and its shareholders.
But - and this is a big but - you'd think that when they sell a book bundle they'd apply a hefty discount so we as customers are incentivized to buy the bundle. And they do that... in the US, for US customers. I can tell you right now that buying the EU bundle for Shadow of the Dragon Queen (regular) is actually flat out more expensive than just buying them separate from DNDB and a regular store. Could be my math's off there and all, but that it's even a close thing is puzzling to me.
While I suppose that that's good for our FLGS, you'll have to excuse me when I state that I believe that kind of pricing policy to be just a little out of touch with reality on WotC/Hasbro's part.
Then buy it separately. Wizards is not forcing anyone to buy the bundle. The only benefit from buying the regular bundle is two weeks of early access, and if that is not enough of an incentive, then do not buy it and shop elsewhere. As stated on their FAQ, they are still trying and testing things out.
The shipping fee is very high and offsets pretty much any discount off of MSRP even in the US, so I agree their pricing model is a bit out of wack, but it is out of wack for a reason, and it honestly is not really difficult to understand why due to current events and given that this is their first foray into a new distribution model. Wizards is also an American company, so it should not be surprising that they are able to offer lower prices in the United States given that this is their home turf.
You need to stop telling people what they should do; that is not your place. People have every right to a dissenting opinion just as you have a right to your opinion.
Also, you keep talking about Hasbro/WotC's cost. Unless you work for their accounting division you do not have any idea if anything you are saying is true. Please stop spreading rumors that only serve to confuse people on this forum.
Its price gouging because they are trying to force consumers to pay more than double the MSRP for the exact same content.
It is not price gouging. It is two separate products in two different format/mediums. Just because you bought a physical book off of Amazon does not mean you are automatically entitled to the ebook version on the Kindle. It is no different here.
In what world are people scalping current D&D source material for 5 to 10 times the MSRP? How did you even come up with that valuation?
On eBay, the alternate covers of Xanathar's Guide to Everything is at least around five times the MSRP, and Volo's Guide to Monsters can reach ten times the MSRP.
No one is required to play D&D; online, on paper, or any way in-between. However, if you want to play you have three options; pay full price for hardcover + very high shipping fees, pay full price for digital content, or pay double for both.
Basic Rules/SRD is free. EEPC is free. MCV1 is free. LMOP is free. The entirety of UA is free.
Why are you so stuck on paying for the damn books when UA will give you a similar equivalent? Why even bother paying for Wizard's adventures when there are thousands of free homebrew adventures and campaigns out there?
No one is arguing that D&D Beyond staff should not be paid, this statement is moot. However, refer back to point #2
You are heavily implying that. The impression you are giving me is that you essentially want $49.95 to pay for both the physical product and digital product, instead of just the physical. You think somebody up the supply chain should suck it up and earn less money, and you do not give a crap who will get screwed over.
You insinuation that people should not voice their discontent because it does not align with your opinion is very insulting. We can disagree and be able to voice that disagreement.
I do not have an issue with people voicing discontent. I have an issue with people being rude and obnoxious. Saying others are spreading propoganda and keep complaining about price while refusing to acknowledge that businesses not passing on rising costs means somebody is going to get screwed over in the supply chain.
YOU ACTUALLY THINK COSUMERS ARE INSIGNIFICANT?! Okay corporate fanboy
Yes. Some of them are ********. I threatened to call law enforcement on a customer once because he was verbally abusing my staff, and then he took one of our products without paying for it. If we simply kicked him out right from the start, he would not have stolen something and we would not have lost money.
You, allegedly, working someone in the supply chain field does not make you an expert on how the market and industry function. It’s the same as suggesting that if a person who physically manufactures computer chips then they know everything about how processors work.
I never claim to be an expert, but since I work in the supply chain and I am telling you there are issues with having things getting delivered on time, there really is an issue with getting things delivered on time. Fedex Express's ETAs on delivery times was dogshit unreliable for the first half of this year, and they still have some kinks here and there lately. And if you really want something in high demand without paying an arm and leg, you better be really good at finding manufacturers and hope they deal with individual consumers directly.
Yes, Hasbro and WotC do not owe consumers anything. But they should at minimum respect them if they want to continue to have them.
Not all customers deserve respect, and for sure definitely not all consumers. It is going to cost the business less issues in the long run if you simply kick rude and obnoxious people to the curb. Chasing after every consumer is going to lose the business money if not every one of them is profitable.
Again, you are confusing the issues. There is a huge difference between compensation and outright greed. WotC will still earn money without charging double for the same content. Digital content has almost zero overhead because there is no production cost (i.e. printing, paper, labor, distribution, etc.). D&D Beyond has to either ban homebrew content or allow it to be free because they DO NOT OWN IT. Also, the consumers want that content so it makes business sense for them to provide a vehicle for it.
I have worked in accounting before I went into dealing with business clients and supplying them. If you understand production costs for physical products, then why the hell do you not understand there is still overhead cost for digital products? Do you really think Beyond employees just work at the park or at Starbucks rather than in an office building, and Beyond just pays zero rent? And speaking of labor, you do not think Beyond employees should be compensated for their labor in developing and improving these tools? Who is going to pay for all the server costs to host this stuff online 24/7/365 days per year? And that is just based on what little I know of running a simple business. Why are you so sure that it costs little to run an operation like Beyond?
If you really want to pay extra for all of your goods then do it. Send them a personal check as a donation for whatever amount you feel you need to pay in excess. The rest of us will pay what we consider to be a fair price.
I hunt for the best price just like you and many others do.
What I do not do is complain about price and act like I know how I can improve their business operation.
Not bothering to quote, but XXXGammaRay - WotC does not need you to protect them. Seriously.
In the end, I also find the new pricing model a pity. It's not like I don't want to pay the good folks at DNDB; I've certainly bought my fair share of books here on the site. I also absolutely agree that in the end, WotC/Hasbro are a company, and a company's goal is to make profit for itself and its shareholders.
But - and this is a big but - you'd think that when they sell a book bundle they'd apply a hefty discount so we as customers are incentivized to buy the bundle. And they do that... in the US, for US customers. I can tell you right now that buying the EU bundle for Shadow of the Dragon Queen (regular) is actually flat out more expensive than just buying them separate from DNDB and a regular store. Could be my math's off there and all, but that it's even a close thing is puzzling to me.
While I suppose that that's good for our FLGS, you'll have to excuse me when I state that I believe that kind of pricing policy to be just a little out of touch with reality on WotC/Hasbro's part.
Then buy it separately. Wizards is not forcing anyone to buy the bundle. The only benefit from buying the regular bundle is two weeks of early access, and if that is not enough of an incentive, then do not buy it and shop elsewhere. As stated on their FAQ, they are still trying and testing things out.
The shipping fee is very high and offsets pretty much any discount off of MSRP even in the US, so I agree their pricing model is a bit out of wack, but it is out of wack for a reason, and it honestly is not really difficult to understand why due to current events and given that this is their first foray into a new distribution model. Wizards is also an American company, so it should not be surprising that they are able to offer lower prices in the United States given that this is their home turf.
You need to stop telling people what they should do; that is not your place. People have every right to a dissenting opinion just as you have a right to your opinion.
Also, you keep talking about Hasbro/WotC's cost. Unless you work for their accounting division you do not have any idea if anything you are saying is true. Please stop spreading rumors that only serve to confuse people on this forum.
I agreed with and affirmed them that if they want to purchase them seperately, then by all means do so. If they really do not like the prices, they can vote with their wallet and leave. I did not tell them to do anything that they would not have already done.
I do not work in their accounting department, but I know enough about accounting that rude lay people often lowball and devalue businesses because they think can do better and offer lower prices, despite having little to no experience in running a business. If a lay person really think they can do better, they would not be throwing a tantrum about price on the floor at business's doorsteps.
I have not spread any rumors, but you keep complaining about price and constantly lowball and devalue the work of Wizards and especially Beyond.
As a new member and subscriber I have to confess it doesn't honestly seem like the combined D&D and D&D beyond have been very customer focused in these assessments. I'm barely 24 hours in here having come with great excitement from the re-entry of SpellJammer and the one D&D announcements. I have every intention of enjoying it here and making the best of it but let me just go through a few basic, at least in my mind, points especially as relates to the digital purchases.
Having just gotten SpellJammer as a physical order as stated in my intro I came here thinking I would be able to make use of digital tabletop options instead I get hit with a paywall saying to pay -FULL- retail price again to have access to it here. Okay reading from the FAQ though I disagree with most of its points after 4 months, I can understand that separate assets and licensing is behind it. What I can't understand is that you offer "bundled reduced" option for the digital reference material for the books I -HAVE-, but I have to buy the entire package book and content, or every piece of digital content individually. I would assume more people are going to be arriving like myself who have the physical copies and are only coming here for digital content. Why have you not offered an option that presumes the physical ownership and allows access to the vtt/character options and not the book content?
This is even more the case for people who are subscribers here, while the stated subscription and the playstation vs xbox argument makes a level of sense. It doesn't change that in most outside examples of digital systems a subscriber gets -ALL- content until such time as they stop subscribing, the counter is usually expansion packs which I can agree the books are but again speaking as a new customer here and one who is excited to be here. SpellJammer and the one D&D brought me to your table which included a Master Year Subscription already a few hundred outa pocket when I find out you want me to buy SpellJammer again to make use of it. Please think on this as constructive discussion I'm here, I'm your customer to keep or lose and I suspect one of many on how things move forward.
Let me also say this is coming from the perspective of someone who is willing and is paying money into the system, but at this point D&D and D&D Beyond are to my perspective and likely to an influx of incoming people one company now and this looks very much like unfair double dipping. It's easy for most companies for warranty purposes verify purchase with vendors require receipts etc in the modern digital system its even easier I certainly appreciate the creatives work and believe it should be paid for. However this is not a good look for the companies to wear in modern times. I'm glad that DragonLance and such going forward won't have this problem but I highly offer a "D&D Beyond Content" option the inverse of "Compendium Content" be considered if not an outright receipt ownership validation for physical owners.
You clearly have anger towards all consumers. I hope you find the healing you need.
I would also like to point out that I never said anything about you personally but you have consistently used words lie "rude" and "shitty" to describe others. That is not appropriate.
Having just gotten SpellJammer as a physical order as stated in my intro I came here thinking I would be able to make use of digital tabletop options instead I get hit with a paywall saying to pay -FULL- retail price again to have access to it here. Okay reading from the FAQ though I disagree with most of its points after 4 months, I can understand that separate assets and licensing is behind it. What I can't understand is that you offer "bundled reduced" option for the digital reference material for the books I -HAVE-, but I have to buy the entire package book and content, or every piece of digital content individually. I would assume more people are going to be arriving like myself who have the physical copies and are only coming here for digital content. Why have you not offered an option that presumes the physical ownership and allows access to the vtt/character options and not the book content?
Note that you can purchase individual character options and not book content. Anything you spend on individual elements (say, for example, the astral elf character race and the Ancient Solar Dragon from Spelljammer) is credited toward the purchase price of the whole book. It my understanding that it is also credited toward the price of any bundle that source is a part of.
If by "VTT elements" you mean maps and the like, you are quite correct that those are not individually purchasable, I agree that would be nice. Based on what has been said already, my guess is that the "digital play experience" WOTC is planning will provide those elements, though likely for purchase, and likely only usuable on their digital play experience.
Now, maybe I've misunderstood what you meant here, so if I'm telling you something you already know, or have missed you point, I apologize.
I'm sure they could do something like registration codes in PC games covered with scratch-off material to preserve the integrity of the code as much as possible. Still looking forward to seeing where the acquisition takes us as far as integration goes.
which increases manufacturing costs, leading to a price rise *somewhere* in the line, and such rises are usually foisted onto the customer by increasing the price of each book by anywhere from "insignificant" to "what do you mean it's now $40 per book?"
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
If I had known I had to re-purchase all of the material to use it on this website, I would not have paid for a one-year "Master" tier subscription. I am getting back into D&D with my teenage son, after a very long break. I learned AD&D with the first-edition rules, back in the early 1980s. I had hoped this service would be an easy way for us to create characters, but I didn't know that I would have to essentially repurchase ALL of the books digitally, immediately after forking out several hundred dollars for multiple copies of the physical books.
I assumed the "master tier" subscription would grant me access to the content, and that doesn't seem to be the case. I have a MAJOR case of buyer's remorse. I don't care about reading the books online -- I have physical copies for that. However, having to pay extra to use a character class from "Monster's of the Multiverse" is infuriating. 🤬
There's the problem there - when you are going to be paying for anything, never assume anything - If you read the Subscription pages carefully, it doesn't say anywhere that you get access to the Digital Books for free. I'm sorry that you didn't check beforehand - you might be able to get in touch with the support staff, let them know the situation and see if they can't refund you?
If you are just wanting to buy a couple of things (e.g. a certain Class that you mentioned from MotM), you can go to the Marketplace and buy things 'piecemeal', thereby only buying the things you want from a book. Plus, anything you pay towards the book is discounted off the total book should you later decide to buy the whole thing.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
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With the latest bundle on dndbeyond, it looks like physical/virtual bundles may be a thing (depending on how this test goes). However. It feels bad that legendary bundle discounts don't apply to this bundle. I'd love to hear future plans from WotC.
~Kcacee~
Shipping costs $42.99 to Canada.
https://dndstore.wizards.com/us/product/768936/shadow-of-the-dragon-queen-book-bundle
Like what? Guys this is just a book. Give people the option of something other than "ParcelConnect Priority DDU" for shipping if you want people to buy the physical product from here. Because that is an insane cost to ship a book from the US to Canada.
For context, where I work we ship packages, far heavier than a book, from the UK to customers all over the US. It costs $20.
We're further away with an ocean between us. Yet our shipping is half the price than these delivery charges.
C'mon Wizards.
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There is nothing wrong with price gouging in this case. First off, D&D can already be played for absolutely free; while you might not get the exact mechanics in the latest sourcebooks, you will still get a very close approximation of them in UA, which is freaking free and is often more experimental and exciting than the final published version. Second, TTRPGs are not some critical necessity that people need to live and survive off of, it is a luxury good that businesses should feel free to charge however much they want so they can take care of their suppliers and employees properly. Thirdly, there is still a supply chain issue going on, and people need to realize that if they are just a regular individual consumer, they are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of priority, they are insignificant chump change in the grand scheme of things, and they are not even remorly special deserving of any extra attention or care. Just like everyone else, individual consumers will have to either wait at the back of the line, pay up to skip it, or get out of the line for people who will gladly pay for it.
To me, what is disappointing are entitled people throwing away free cafeteria lunches and demand that they be served a five course meal instead by chefs and butlers. Chefs and butlers are under no obligation to provide their services for free to people who do not deserve them.
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First of all, I appreciate the time you took to personally attack a random stranger on the internet.
Secondly, just picking one example, the Master Tier Subscription allows you to create unlimited encounters in the Encounter Builder. That is factually correct - unlike your post where you say 'none of it is accurate'. In future, don't make sweeping generalised statements.
Thirdly, I am more than happy to receive criticism/ways to improve the information in this thread. As I've previously stated, I'm just another site user - nothing special. I created this as a compendium to help and inform people. If you cannot add to the discussion and/or persist in attacking other site users, please kindly find another outlet for your issues that is not the D&D Beyond forums.
#Open D&D
Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
Looking to add mouse-over triggered tooltips to such things like magic items, monsters or combat actions? Then dash over to the How to Add Tooltips thread.
There was no "personal attack", your post is incorrect and outdated. That is not an insult, it is the truth. In the future, dont make the topic about you when it is about the information. You can go on pontificating now.
Firstly, price gouging is never the correct course of action.
Secondly, you cannot play all of D&D for "freaking free" on the website we are currently having this conversation and UA is not cannon. League of Legends is 100% free to play, D&D is not.
Thirdly, you are confusing separate issues. Only food, water, shelter, and wealth are critical necessities, everything else is a convenience or luxury so that argument is silly. Businesses can charge anything they want for their products. Consumers decide whether or not that price is justified; I argue it is not. And unless you have intimate knowledge of how they treat suppliers and employees I do not think you can make the assumption that the reason for the pricing is to give them extra money.
Fourthly, I seriously doubt Hasbro is at the bottom of the barrel and the "supply chain" argument is no longer appropriate.
Fifthly, how are we on the topic of anecdotal cafeteria food, chefs, and butlers?
Can Wizards charge whatever they choose? Certainly. Do I think that $30.00 for source material is outrageous? No, its a fair price. However, forcing the consumer base to choose between paying full price for digital or full price + shipping for a hardcover is shortsighted. Only children spending their parents money, the extremely wealthy, or the elitist who somehow thinks paying twice the price makes them better than those who don't, will not care about the cost.
The smart thing for Wizards to do is to give access to both when you buy one (or maybe a small increase for the digital with the physical). Why? Because people will still subscribe to D&D Beyond and will pay for the the digital maps, content, dice, and other bells and whistles. Plus, who would order a hardcover online for a minimum of a $13 increase when they can get it from their local book store or Amazon without shipping? it just does not make sense.
There are situations where price gouging is the correct course of action. When there is high demand and supplies are limited, you generally want to charge the highest price possible to earn the most profit. And selling physical and digital bundle for its current price is not even anywhere remotely close to price gouging. It is literally just the MSRP prices of both products combined together, nowhere near five to ten times the MSRP price that scalpers and collectors would sell books with alt covers for.
People seriously need to get the idea out of their head that Beyond is required to play D&D. Beyond is NOT necessary to play D&D, and people have been playing D&D with pen and paper for decades, and there are still quite a few forum users on here who still use pen and paper despite having access to Beyond's character builder.
D&D is also far more accessible than League of Legends; League does not even come close. You can go to your local public library and print out the Basic Rules/SRD and a few character sheets for a couple dollars or possibly even free, and you can start playing D&D right away. You need to own a computer and access to internet to play League. Canonicity does not matter, UA is freaking free for Christ's sake, you make do with what you have access to, and UA often have more experimental and interesting mechanics than its official published counterparts. If you want to play in AL, you can simply ask others if you can borrow their book to create a character, and more often than not, people will be more than willing to.
If you are still stuck on on the idea that you need Beyond to play D&D, you can use the homebrew tools and manually integrate the stuff into Beyond from your physical books yourself. It is a pain in the ass to do and it takes a long time, but that is pretty fair if you do not want to spend a dime on Beyond. People who have invested in and built Beyond did not do it for free and they deserve to be compensated for it, and charging for that integration convenience is a good way to earn that compensation.
I am glad that you understand that consumers can vote with their wallet and go elsewhere. If you do not think the price is justified, then go elsewhere. If you do not want to pay for it, that is more than fine, because there is a long line of other customers who will.
I do not need to have an intimate knowledge of how they treat their suppliers and employees. It is all over the freaking news for the past several years that labor costs and material costs are rising. If business are not passing on that cost to consumers, they are either screwing over their employees, their shareholders, or somebody else along the supply chain. This is not some rocket science level news that only Ivy League graduates and defense contractors would know about.
I was not referring to Hasbro, I was referring to individual consumers. Individual consumers are unimportant and insignificant. From time to time, they are rude, obnoxious, and are not worth catering to.
I work with business clients towards the end of the supply chain of my industry, so I know what the **** I am talking about in my little corner of the supply chain, and I imagine my suppliers upstream and other industries are still working through their kinks. Supply chains are still a mess, and businesses I work with often have to refuse service because they simply cannot source the right materials, parts, or even labor. If their customers are lucky, they have the luxury of paying an arm and leg for something and wait several months for it to arrive. If they are not lucky, they are really shit out of luck and will probably have to spend even more body parts to get something else.
It is an analogy. Hasbro, Wizards, and Beyond do not owe consumers anything if those consumers are not willing to pay up. Wizards and Beyond have already done their fair share of providing free lunches in the form of Basic Rules/SRD, various other free content, and digital tools.
As I have said previously, people who invested in and built Beyond deserve to be compensated for their work. Beyond is already more than generous to allow free access to its homebrew tools when they could have simply locked that away behind a paywall. If you do not want pay for it in money to integrate your physical books with Beyond, then you have to pay with time and do it manually yourself using the homebrew tools.
The smart thing for Wizards to do is cover their all their expenses and maintain a healthy profit margin, not cater to individual consumers' whims on what is a reasonable price or not. Many consumers will nickel and dime you, and those that do are not worth selling nor catering to. There are plenty of customers out there who would be more than happy to compensate you fairly for your work, so there is absolutely no reason to lower yourself to cater to people who constantly lowball and devalue you. Those wannabe customers can take their nickels and dimes and shop elsewhere.
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Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Not bothering to quote, but XXXGammaRay - WotC does not need you to protect them. Seriously.
In the end, I also find the new pricing model a pity. It's not like I don't want to pay the good folks at DNDB; I've certainly bought my fair share of books here on the site. I also absolutely agree that in the end, WotC/Hasbro are a company, and a company's goal is to make profit for itself and its shareholders.
But - and this is a big but - you'd think that when they sell a book bundle they'd apply a hefty discount so we as customers are incentivized to buy the bundle. And they do that... in the US, for US customers. I can tell you right now that buying the EU bundle for Shadow of the Dragon Queen (regular) is actually flat out more expensive than just buying them separate from DNDB and a regular store. Could be my math's off there and all, but that it's even a close thing is puzzling to me.
While I suppose that that's good for our FLGS, you'll have to excuse me when I state that I believe that kind of pricing policy to be just a little out of touch with reality on WotC/Hasbro's part.
Then buy it separately. Wizards is not forcing anyone to buy the bundle. The only benefit from buying the regular bundle is two weeks of early access, and if that is not enough of an incentive, then do not buy it and shop elsewhere. As stated on their FAQ, they are still trying and testing things out.
The shipping fee is very high and offsets pretty much any discount off of MSRP even in the US, so I agree their pricing model is a bit out of wack, but it is out of wack for a reason, and it honestly is not really difficult to understand why due to current events and given that this is their first foray into a new distribution model. Wizards is also an American company, so it should not be surprising that they are able to offer lower prices in the United States given that this is their home turf.
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Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
@XXXGammaRay
I cannot telling if you are trolling or playing devil’s advocate but there is not enough time to unpack all of the untruths in your comments.
You need to stop telling people what they should do; that is not your place. People have every right to a dissenting opinion just as you have a right to your opinion.
Also, you keep talking about Hasbro/WotC's cost. Unless you work for their accounting division you do not have any idea if anything you are saying is true. Please stop spreading rumors that only serve to confuse people on this forum.
I do not mind higher prices if it means there are less shitty customers holding up the damned line screaming at the cashier.
It is not price gouging. It is two separate products in two different format/mediums. Just because you bought a physical book off of Amazon does not mean you are automatically entitled to the ebook version on the Kindle. It is no different here.
$59.94 bundle + $12.99 shipping = $72.93
$44.96 Amazon + $25.49 discounted digital = $70.45
$49.95 MSRP physical + $29.99 MSRP digital = $79.94
And honestly, the price difference is not even that bad. Calling it price gouging is extreme exaggeration.
On eBay, the alternate covers of Xanathar's Guide to Everything is at least around five times the MSRP, and Volo's Guide to Monsters can reach ten times the MSRP.
I was not saying they are the same products either. I gave an example of why D&D is 100% free to play and cheaper to play.
Basic Rules/SRD is free. EEPC is free. MCV1 is free. LMOP is free. The entirety of UA is free.
Why are you so stuck on paying for the damn books when UA will give you a similar equivalent? Why even bother paying for Wizard's adventures when there are thousands of free homebrew adventures and campaigns out there?
You are heavily implying that. The impression you are giving me is that you essentially want $49.95 to pay for both the physical product and digital product, instead of just the physical. You think somebody up the supply chain should suck it up and earn less money, and you do not give a crap who will get screwed over.
I do not have an issue with people voicing discontent. I have an issue with people being rude and obnoxious. Saying others are spreading propoganda and keep complaining about price while refusing to acknowledge that businesses not passing on rising costs means somebody is going to get screwed over in the supply chain.
All this stuff is literally on the news: high gas prices, high electricity prices, rising labor costs, high paper price.
Yes. Some of them are ********. I threatened to call law enforcement on a customer once because he was verbally abusing my staff, and then he took one of our products without paying for it. If we simply kicked him out right from the start, he would not have stolen something and we would not have lost money.
I never claim to be an expert, but since I work in the supply chain and I am telling you there are issues with having things getting delivered on time, there really is an issue with getting things delivered on time. Fedex Express's ETAs on delivery times was dogshit unreliable for the first half of this year, and they still have some kinks here and there lately. And if you really want something in high demand without paying an arm and leg, you better be really good at finding manufacturers and hope they deal with individual consumers directly.
Not all customers deserve respect, and for sure definitely not all consumers. It is going to cost the business less issues in the long run if you simply kick rude and obnoxious people to the curb. Chasing after every consumer is going to lose the business money if not every one of them is profitable.
I have worked in accounting before I went into dealing with business clients and supplying them. If you understand production costs for physical products, then why the hell do you not understand there is still overhead cost for digital products? Do you really think Beyond employees just work at the park or at Starbucks rather than in an office building, and Beyond just pays zero rent? And speaking of labor, you do not think Beyond employees should be compensated for their labor in developing and improving these tools? Who is going to pay for all the server costs to host this stuff online 24/7/365 days per year? And that is just based on what little I know of running a simple business. Why are you so sure that it costs little to run an operation like Beyond?
I hunt for the best price just like you and many others do.
What I do not do is complain about price and act like I know how I can improve their business operation.
I agreed with and affirmed them that if they want to purchase them seperately, then by all means do so. If they really do not like the prices, they can vote with their wallet and leave. I did not tell them to do anything that they would not have already done.
I do not work in their accounting department, but I know enough about accounting that rude lay people often lowball and devalue businesses because they think can do better and offer lower prices, despite having little to no experience in running a business. If a lay person really think they can do better, they would not be throwing a tantrum about price on the floor at business's doorsteps.
I have not spread any rumors, but you keep complaining about price and constantly lowball and devalue the work of Wizards and especially Beyond.
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Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
As a new member and subscriber I have to confess it doesn't honestly seem like the combined D&D and D&D beyond have been very customer focused in these assessments. I'm barely 24 hours in here having come with great excitement from the re-entry of SpellJammer and the one D&D announcements. I have every intention of enjoying it here and making the best of it but let me just go through a few basic, at least in my mind, points especially as relates to the digital purchases.
Having just gotten SpellJammer as a physical order as stated in my intro I came here thinking I would be able to make use of digital tabletop options instead I get hit with a paywall saying to pay -FULL- retail price again to have access to it here. Okay reading from the FAQ though I disagree with most of its points after 4 months, I can understand that separate assets and licensing is behind it. What I can't understand is that you offer "bundled reduced" option for the digital reference material for the books I -HAVE-, but I have to buy the entire package book and content, or every piece of digital content individually. I would assume more people are going to be arriving like myself who have the physical copies and are only coming here for digital content. Why have you not offered an option that presumes the physical ownership and allows access to the vtt/character options and not the book content?
This is even more the case for people who are subscribers here, while the stated subscription and the playstation vs xbox argument makes a level of sense. It doesn't change that in most outside examples of digital systems a subscriber gets -ALL- content until such time as they stop subscribing, the counter is usually expansion packs which I can agree the books are but again speaking as a new customer here and one who is excited to be here. SpellJammer and the one D&D brought me to your table which included a Master Year Subscription already a few hundred outa pocket when I find out you want me to buy SpellJammer again to make use of it. Please think on this as constructive discussion I'm here, I'm your customer to keep or lose and I suspect one of many on how things move forward.
Let me also say this is coming from the perspective of someone who is willing and is paying money into the system, but at this point D&D and D&D Beyond are to my perspective and likely to an influx of incoming people one company now and this looks very much like unfair double dipping. It's easy for most companies for warranty purposes verify purchase with vendors require receipts etc in the modern digital system its even easier I certainly appreciate the creatives work and believe it should be paid for. However this is not a good look for the companies to wear in modern times. I'm glad that DragonLance and such going forward won't have this problem but I highly offer a "D&D Beyond Content" option the inverse of "Compendium Content" be considered if not an outright receipt ownership validation for physical owners.
You clearly have anger towards all consumers. I hope you find the healing you need.
I would also like to point out that I never said anything about you personally but you have consistently used words lie "rude" and "shitty" to describe others. That is not appropriate.
Note that you can purchase individual character options and not book content. Anything you spend on individual elements (say, for example, the astral elf character race and the Ancient Solar Dragon from Spelljammer) is credited toward the purchase price of the whole book. It my understanding that it is also credited toward the price of any bundle that source is a part of.
If by "VTT elements" you mean maps and the like, you are quite correct that those are not individually purchasable, I agree that would be nice. Based on what has been said already, my guess is that the "digital play experience" WOTC is planning will provide those elements, though likely for purchase, and likely only usuable on their digital play experience.
Now, maybe I've misunderstood what you meant here, so if I'm telling you something you already know, or have missed you point, I apologize.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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