...and just to add on to what has already been said. There are other games than D&D and there's nothing wrong with wanting to play one of those if that is more to your liking.
Correct.
D&D is a game with a vast set of rules that are required because the canvas the game is played on is people's imagination. Those rules still allow a huge huge range of play within those guardrails. If a person feels unhappy playing within those rules, they are more than welcome to find a game and a like-minded group of people to play that game. They don't have to be bent on the destruction of D&D instead.
Vince we get it, you want to gatekeep the D&D community whilst preaching to follow THE RULES and never straying a millimeter away from them, whilst you seem to denounce the biggest and most important rule of D&D, the rules arent in charge, the DM is.
Go find a group of people who share your view of the rules and stop gatekeeping the rest of the community, because that is causing the "destruction of D&D" more than a DM ruling that burning hands melts some ice.
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"The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game" - Dungeon Masters Guide
I watch rules-lawyers. ("On page x, the PHB says...")
I watch Rule-of-Cool gamers. ("There are rules?")
I watch several in-between that mix and match 5e rules with variations based on custom lore and skill level of the gamers.
All are very different except all are having a lot of fun. (I'm one of those weirdos who never wants more of the same or more of what I already know.)
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
...and just to add on to what has already been said. There are other games than D&D and there's nothing wrong with wanting to play one of those if that is more to your liking.
Correct.
D&D is a game with a vast set of rules that are required because the canvas the game is played on is people's imagination. Those rules still allow a huge huge range of play within those guardrails. If a person feels unhappy playing within those rules, they are more than welcome to find a game and a like-minded group of people to play that game. They don't have to be bent on the destruction of D&D instead.
Vince we get it, you want to gatekeep the D&D community whilst preaching to follow THE RULES and never straying a millimeter away from them, whilst you seem to denounce the biggest and most important rule of D&D, the rules arent in charge, the DM is.
Go find a group of people who share your view of the rules and stop gatekeeping the rest of the community, because that is causing the "destruction of D&D" more than a DM ruling that burning hands melts some ice.
What makes it even funnier is that Vince hates "non-realistic" parts of D&D 5e, like carrying capacity and armor weights, and has houserules to "fix" those mechanics at his table, but if anyone dares to suggest that a spell that creates fire can melt some ice, he goes on a rant about the destruction of D&D.
It's just ironic. If you use houserules, you can't complain about the houserules of other tables, even if you disagree with them. To do so would be (and is) extremely hypocritical.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
...and just to add on to what has already been said. There are other games than D&D and there's nothing wrong with wanting to play one of those if that is more to your liking.
Correct.
D&D is a game with a vast set of rules that are required because the canvas the game is played on is people's imagination. Those rules still allow a huge huge range of play within those guardrails. If a person feels unhappy playing within those rules, they are more than welcome to find a game and a like-minded group of people to play that game. They don't have to be bent on the destruction of D&D instead.
You keep equating "using homebrew rules/houserules" with "bad D&D", and therefore "Destruction of the hobby". This is wrong.
If using houserules is fun for the table, they are playing D&D correctly. If they are playing D&D correctly, that is not "bad D&D", that is "good D&D". And there is absolutely no way that Good D&D can destroy the hobby.
Got it? It's a really simple transitive property problem. Here, let me simplify it a bit.
Fun D&D = Good D&D = Good for the hobby.
Not Fun D&D (for those at the table) = Bad D&D = Bad for the hobby.
It's really simple. If people at the table are having fun, that's good D&D and therefore good at the hobby. If people at the table aren't having fun, they're doing something wrong and that makes that bad D&D, and therefore bad for the hobby. Good D&D can't be bad for the hobby and Bad D&D can't be good for the hobby. My table has fun playing a different way from yours, which makes it good D&D, and therefore good for the hobby, even if it's different from your D&D.
Until there is any migrations of players from one table to another. Maybe for a long time you have played in the same group, with zero players moving in and out, and you are totally insulated. You can then call whatever you are playing D&D, or Chess, or Global Thermonuclear War, and no one is upset, or confused.
But in general, as soon as player are introduced into a table with vastly different rules, House Rules or not, there is going to be confusion or discomfort. That is self-evident. And in the real D&D community, players and DM's alike are looking for new opportunities. Just look at any website's "Looking for players", or "Looking for a game" forums. At which point, one person's view of "Good D&D" is another person's worst nightmare. Commonality is required in a community such as D&D. And don't say "Well, player X can bow out after realizing the experience at that new table is not for him". Because it is not that simple. Players usually make a real effort and investment in time before joining a new campaign, let alone what a DM does.
Wow, you have a seriously black and white mindset. I have played both kinds of D&D, where we had serious roleplayers and then serious powergamers. I can play either, so niether of them are the infamous "BAD D&D" (capitals mine). The fact that you are worried that players would be unable to go from one game to another is pretty ridiculous. It's like worrying if an NFL player can go from one team to another because they run a different defense.
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
How can a method of determining statistics in a tabletop roleplaying be akin to rocket science? Objective truth is there regardless of opinions, preferences, or feelings. It is what it is. There is 0 debate. There is, always will be, and always has been opinion and subjectivity on what is right, wrong, best, and better in regards to how an imaginary character is built. Every single aspect of building a character for D&D is as correct and as much fun as those involved in its creation say it is. There is no outside source or series of rules and logic steps to validate those opinions. That's kinda the point of, "make imaginary dudes and play what you want so long as the one running it agrees."
I assumed KanedaSyndrome was facetiously referring to a certain other thread in which the argument was that people who roll 4d6 are just trying to abuse the system (which is patently untrue). Of course, I could be wrong about that...
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
How can a method of determining statistics in a tabletop roleplaying be akin to rocket science? Objective truth is there regardless of opinions, preferences, or feelings. It is what it is. There is 0 debate. There is, always will be, and always has been opinion and subjectivity on what is right, wrong, best, and better in regards to how an imaginary character is built. Every single aspect of building a character for D&D is as correct and as much fun as those involved in its creation say it is. There is no outside source or series of rules and logic steps to validate those opinions. That's kinda the point of, "make imaginary dudes and play what you want so long as the one running it agrees."
Because other people prefer other methods. I've played with the 4d6 method for years, but found it to be a detriment to our game, so we switched over to Point Buy/Standard Array. If my table had more fun with Point Buy/Standard Array than we had with Roll for Stats, and KanedaSyndrome's table has more fun with the 4d6 method than Point Buy/Standard Array, that proves that playstyle is inherently subjective (based off of personal preference) instead of being objective (based off of fact "right or wrong", "better vs. worse").
So, if playstyle is subjective, including the method of stat generation, then it is objectively correct that no side can be superior or inferior. It's just a matter of taste. This is objectively true, the same way that it is objectively true that my dislike of avocados does not make me inherently inferior to someone who does like avocados. It's just a matter of taste, so neither side can be better or worse than the other side.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I assumed KanedaSyndrome was facetiously referring to a certain other thread in which the argument was that people who roll 4d6 are just trying to abuse the system (which is patently untrue). Of course, I could be wrong about that...
But you were completely right. It was indeed a joke referring to a certain other thread :)
My real opinion is that fun is only wrong if it comes at the expense of others. That counts in D&D and in life in general.
Referring back to my joke post, we don't roll for stats at our table, we're using the point buy system.
I would like to try rolling one day, but I know it will cause power differences between the characters, and in a game where stats mean a lot mechanically, I see it causing problems. But it would be interesting to see arrays outside the starting 8-15 range.
My real opinion is that fun is only wrong if it comes at the expense of others. That counts in D&D and in life in general.
Referring back to my joke post, we don't roll for stats at our table, we're using the point buy system.
I would like to try rolling one day, but I know it will cause power differences between the characters, and in a game where stats mean a lot mechanically, I see it causing problems. But it would be interesting to see arrays outside the starting 8-15 range.
I play and run multiple games per week - averaging around 6 and I have never played in a game with stat array. Probably 90% have been dice rolls, with a handful of point buys for Pathfinder and GURPS, but for D&D 100% are dice rolls. Usually in person but now either using Avrae on the discord channel or the dice roller on this website. Yes there can be significant variations in characters but I have never seen it cause problems. Most of my games are with real life friends, but an increasing number have been pugs from this forum since the lockdown started. I guess there could be if you have someone who is really whiny, but in my games I am pretty quick to identify and boot during the initial chat and session 0
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
Seriously? It's "objectively incorrect?" Please cite your facts that mike this objectively incorrect.
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
Seriously? It's "objectively incorrect?" Please cite your facts that mike this objectively incorrect.
Because it's entirely subjective. As such, there is no right or wrong way to do it, so saying it's the right way automatically makes it incorrect.
Plus, KanedaSyndrome said they were making a funny, so it isn't meant to be taken seriously in the first place.
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
Seriously? It's "objectively incorrect?" Please cite your facts that mike this objectively incorrect.
Dude. How many times must I repeat this? I already did that a few posts ago (in this thread). Here you go. Mezzurah also explained it well. "Objectively" is the opposite of "subjectively", so if something is inherently subjective, it is objectively true that there is not "correct" or "true" way to do it.
Also, go read the OP if you haven't. If you have, reread it. It goes more in depth about this, as does this post of mine. If you still don't believe me after that, nothing that I'm going to say is going to convince you. Fun cannot be wrong unless it's directly/truthfully at the expense of someone else, so if I have fun with Point Buy/Standard Array instead of Rolling for Stats, that is objectively a correct way to play D&D, and there is no superior/"truer" way to play it.
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
Seriously? It's "objectively incorrect?" Please cite your facts that mike this objectively incorrect.
Dude. How many times must I repeat this? I already did that a few posts ago (in this thread). Here you go. Mezzurah also explained it well. "Objectively" is the opposite of "subjectively", so if something is inherently subjective, it is objectively true that there is not "correct" or "true" way to do it.
Also, go read the OP if you haven't. If you have, reread it. It goes more in depth about this, as does this post of mine. If you still don't believe me after that, nothing that I'm going to say is going to convince you. Fun cannot be wrong unless it's directly/truthfully at the expense of someone else, so if I have fun with Point Buy/Standard Array instead of Rolling for Stats, that is objectively a correct way to play D&D, and there is no superior/"truer" way to play it.
My mistake, and my apologies. I totally misread this. I agree 100% with you, it is a game and if you enjoy playing it and are not hurting anyone, it is all good.
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
Seriously? It's "objectively incorrect?" Please cite your facts that mike this objectively incorrect.
Dude. How many times must I repeat this? I already did that a few posts ago (in this thread). Here you go. Mezzurah also explained it well. "Objectively" is the opposite of "subjectively", so if something is inherently subjective, it is objectively true that there is not "correct" or "true" way to do it.
Also, go read the OP if you haven't. If you have, reread it. It goes more in depth about this, as does this post of mine. If you still don't believe me after that, nothing that I'm going to say is going to convince you. Fun cannot be wrong unless it's directly/truthfully at the expense of someone else, so if I have fun with Point Buy/Standard Array instead of Rolling for Stats, that is objectively a correct way to play D&D, and there is no superior/"truer" way to play it.
My mistake, and my apologies. I totally misread this. I agree 100% with you, it is a game and if you enjoy playing it and are not hurting anyone, it is all good.
No harm, no foul. It happens to all of us sometimes. Sorry if my response was harsh.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Someone at WoTC must think 4d6 is "right", or at least didn't get the memo for the new edition. The Essentials Kit comes with 4 six sided dice, which is really only needed for the 4d6 drop low character generation...
However, I'd rather talk about times when my fun was "wrong". One of the more amusing times I had at the table was when every player decided to make a Half-Elven multiclass bard (2nd ed with Complete Bards Handbook). We may not have been the deadliest adventuring party, but we were highly entertaining.
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There is a name for them such folk.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Vince we get it, you want to gatekeep the D&D community whilst preaching to follow THE RULES and never straying a millimeter away from them, whilst you seem to denounce the biggest and most important rule of D&D, the rules arent in charge, the DM is.
Go find a group of people who share your view of the rules and stop gatekeeping the rest of the community, because that is causing the "destruction of D&D" more than a DM ruling that burning hands melts some ice.
"The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren't in charge. You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game" - Dungeon Masters Guide
I watch a range of TTRPG streamers.
I watch rules-lawyers. ("On page x, the PHB says...")
I watch Rule-of-Cool gamers. ("There are rules?")
I watch several in-between that mix and match 5e rules with variations based on custom lore and skill level of the gamers.
All are very different except all are having a lot of fun. (I'm one of those weirdos who never wants more of the same or more of what I already know.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
What makes it even funnier is that Vince hates "non-realistic" parts of D&D 5e, like carrying capacity and armor weights, and has houserules to "fix" those mechanics at his table, but if anyone dares to suggest that a spell that creates fire can melt some ice, he goes on a rant about the destruction of D&D.
It's just ironic. If you use houserules, you can't complain about the houserules of other tables, even if you disagree with them. To do so would be (and is) extremely hypocritical.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I definitely think D&D is the most fun when you roll stats with the 4d6 method. There can be no doubt about it. I think this is the right way to have fun in D&D.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
I'm assuming that you're being facetious. If you are, nice joke. If you're not, nice opinion, but it's objectively incorrect.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Wow, you have a seriously black and white mindset. I have played both kinds of D&D, where we had serious roleplayers and then serious powergamers. I can play either, so niether of them are the infamous "BAD D&D" (capitals mine). The fact that you are worried that players would be unable to go from one game to another is pretty ridiculous. It's like worrying if an NFL player can go from one team to another because they run a different defense.
How can a method of determining statistics in a tabletop roleplaying be akin to rocket science? Objective truth is there regardless of opinions, preferences, or feelings. It is what it is. There is 0 debate. There is, always will be, and always has been opinion and subjectivity on what is right, wrong, best, and better in regards to how an imaginary character is built. Every single aspect of building a character for D&D is as correct and as much fun as those involved in its creation say it is. There is no outside source or series of rules and logic steps to validate those opinions. That's kinda the point of, "make imaginary dudes and play what you want so long as the one running it agrees."
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
I assumed KanedaSyndrome was facetiously referring to a certain other thread in which the argument was that people who roll 4d6 are just trying to abuse the system (which is patently untrue). Of course, I could be wrong about that...
Because other people prefer other methods. I've played with the 4d6 method for years, but found it to be a detriment to our game, so we switched over to Point Buy/Standard Array. If my table had more fun with Point Buy/Standard Array than we had with Roll for Stats, and KanedaSyndrome's table has more fun with the 4d6 method than Point Buy/Standard Array, that proves that playstyle is inherently subjective (based off of personal preference) instead of being objective (based off of fact "right or wrong", "better vs. worse").
So, if playstyle is subjective, including the method of stat generation, then it is objectively correct that no side can be superior or inferior. It's just a matter of taste. This is objectively true, the same way that it is objectively true that my dislike of avocados does not make me inherently inferior to someone who does like avocados. It's just a matter of taste, so neither side can be better or worse than the other side.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
But you were completely right. It was indeed a joke referring to a certain other thread :)
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Now this is not a joke.
My real opinion is that fun is only wrong if it comes at the expense of others. That counts in D&D and in life in general.
Referring back to my joke post, we don't roll for stats at our table, we're using the point buy system.
I would like to try rolling one day, but I know it will cause power differences between the characters, and in a game where stats mean a lot mechanically, I see it causing problems. But it would be interesting to see arrays outside the starting 8-15 range.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
"Your Fun Is Wrong...I want that shirt..."
I play and run multiple games per week - averaging around 6 and I have never played in a game with stat array. Probably 90% have been dice rolls, with a handful of point buys for Pathfinder and GURPS, but for D&D 100% are dice rolls. Usually in person but now either using Avrae on the discord channel or the dice roller on this website. Yes there can be significant variations in characters but I have never seen it cause problems. Most of my games are with real life friends, but an increasing number have been pugs from this forum since the lockdown started. I guess there could be if you have someone who is really whiny, but in my games I am pretty quick to identify and boot during the initial chat and session 0
Seriously? It's "objectively incorrect?" Please cite your facts that mike this objectively incorrect.
Because it's entirely subjective. As such, there is no right or wrong way to do it, so saying it's the right way automatically makes it incorrect.
Plus, KanedaSyndrome said they were making a funny, so it isn't meant to be taken seriously in the first place.
Dude. How many times must I repeat this? I already did that a few posts ago (in this thread). Here you go. Mezzurah also explained it well. "Objectively" is the opposite of "subjectively", so if something is inherently subjective, it is objectively true that there is not "correct" or "true" way to do it.
Also, go read the OP if you haven't. If you have, reread it. It goes more in depth about this, as does this post of mine. If you still don't believe me after that, nothing that I'm going to say is going to convince you. Fun cannot be wrong unless it's directly/truthfully at the expense of someone else, so if I have fun with Point Buy/Standard Array instead of Rolling for Stats, that is objectively a correct way to play D&D, and there is no superior/"truer" way to play it.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
My mistake, and my apologies. I totally misread this. I agree 100% with you, it is a game and if you enjoy playing it and are not hurting anyone, it is all good.
No harm, no foul. It happens to all of us sometimes. Sorry if my response was harsh.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Someone at WoTC must think 4d6 is "right", or at least didn't get the memo for the new edition. The Essentials Kit comes with 4 six sided dice, which is really only needed for the 4d6 drop low character generation...
However, I'd rather talk about times when my fun was "wrong". One of the more amusing times I had at the table was when every player decided to make a Half-Elven multiclass bard (2nd ed with Complete Bards Handbook). We may not have been the deadliest adventuring party, but we were highly entertaining.
***This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it***