D&D 5.5 comes in and the prices for the books go up (which is very likely anyway), but you also get a code that you can use on DNDBeyond.
Just because prices go up does not mean they are going to throw more stuff into a product. Inflation does not impact just the final consumer, it impacts business's costs and expenses as well, and they are not going to spend more to manufacture their product unless it is vital to maximize their profit.
D&D and TTRPGs in general already has major issues appealing to and retaining main stream audiences. Sitting around a table to play pretend for hours on end is not exactly the definition of fun for most people, so not many people will be willing to try it, and many of those that do try are not going to last more than a few sessions. And there are many other major barriers like simply finding people to play the game with, agree upon a common schedule, the opportunity cost of doing another activity that is cheaper and/or more fun, etc. Since Wizards seems to be really focused on growing the market right now, I do not think it is a good idea to sell physical-digital bundled PHB for a higher discounted price when they could sell each individually for a lower price, given that it is already hard to convince people to start and stay playing.
D&D Beyond is turned into a full-blown VTT with a subscription model. They could make a new subscription type that lets you use all the splatbooks, adventures, and other content available without having to buy a book. For example $15 per month for splatbooks only (player sub) and 29,99 for all the content (DM sub).
I do not see Wizards developing a VTT on their own. I think it is less risky and makes more sense for them to pay a little more down the line and aqcuire a successful one, like how they did with Beyond.
Since neither Roll20 nor Fantasy Grounds is offering subscriptions that unlocks all content, I am not sure that is a viable sales model.
D&D Beyond and physical books are different products. DDB is not just the pages of books scanned into PDF format. It is a separate product designed for integration with the DDB character creator and other related functions. It includes cloud storage and is in general an online service that requires staff and other resources to create and maintain that are different from those related to publishing physical books. Buying a physical copy does not entitle you to a DDB copy of the same content, nor is the reverse true. There is no stated intent or even remote hints of such that this will change at any point in the future.
Exactly. In addition, for people saying "Wizards now owns DDB so therefore we should get free books," imagine spending 146.3 million dollars and then completely jeopardizing your purchase? If Wizards gave everyone free copies of digital books every time they bought a physical one, then no one would buy the digital book. I mean, if you can buy something for $30 on Amazon, and $30 on DDB, and if Amazon offers all DDB offers and the physical version too, then no one would buy from DDB anymore.
As enticing as it sounds, physical to digital would be an incredibly stupid company decision, and it's not happening. Wizard didn't buy DDB to get the company out of business, they bought it to actually make money. And who throws 146.3 million dollars into an investment, just to give it all away?
I would argue two things:
1) In Wizard's hands, DDB could pretty much be a decent cash cow on the subscription price alone.
2) If I'm not mistaken, the digital books are less expensive. Besides that, some people prefer them for convenience.
I'd argue that if Wizards wanted to go that way, it could quite probably still be a success. Some good planning/use of sinergies could even make it work better than as is, from a profit standpoint.
That said, I doubt it will ever happen. And if they ever get a VTT going, I also doubt it won't increase the subscription price.
1) Maybe, but just the subscriptions don't justify the 146.3 million dollar pricetag. DDB might be able to make some money of just subscriptions, but not nearly as much as they would have been able to before.
2) Not necessarily, Amazon prices things with MASSIVE discounts, the PHB on Amazon is more then 7 dollars less then the PHB on DDB. As long as Amazon and companies like it keeps giving discounts like this, then the prices will be equal to or less than the ones on DDB.
People wont bother to get the online version if they can get both the physical and digital versions at similar prices (which they can). This would massively hurt DDB financial wise and would cut the money they make into tiny fractions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
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2) Not necessarily, Amazon prices things with MASSIVE discounts, the PHB on Amazon is more then 7 dollars less then the PHB on DDB. As long as Amazon and companies like it keeps giving discounts like this, then the prices will be equal to or less than the ones on DDB.
If we are comparing apples to apples though, Beyond is still cheaper if you want just the compendium content. The seven dollars extra for the digital tools is hands down so much better AND cheaper if you compare them to its closest physical equivalent.
Despite all its flaws and hick ups, I still rather use the digital character sheet than a physical one. Like, this is not even a discussion. As one of the youngest of millenials, I still remember writing draft essays by hand in elementary school and finishing it off on the computer, but once I got a little older in late elementary and middle school, it is way more common to just type the draft straight on the computer itself as there is no point in writing it out just to type it later. Digital is just so much cleaner and easier.
Beyond's monster database is simply superior to physical monster cards. While the physical monster cards is a huge step up from running monsters from the physical book, running monsters from a browser tab is so much easier in my opinion, and it keeps the physical table cleaner and allow more space for battle mats and food. If we compare Beyond's database to physical monster cards for MM, the database costs just $19.99 on Beyond, while Monster Cards on Amazon costs like $18 for only a fraction of the monsters in MM. The full book of MM on Beyond will set you back $29.99, while a physical MM plus three packs of cards will set you back around $80. Even if we pick a less egregious book like VGTM and MTOF, the physical cards cost almost as much as the physicl book itself, so you are still comparing $29.99 on Beyond before it got discontinued to like over $40 on Amazon.
D&D Beyond and physical books are different products. DDB is not just the pages of books scanned into PDF format. It is a separate product designed for integration with the DDB character creator and other related functions. It includes cloud storage and is in general an online service that requires staff and other resources to create and maintain that are different from those related to publishing physical books. Buying a physical copy does not entitle you to a DDB copy of the same content, nor is the reverse true. There is no stated intent or even remote hints of such that this will change at any point in the future.
Exactly. In addition, for people saying "Wizards now owns DDB so therefore we should get free books," imagine spending 146.3 million dollars and then completely jeopardizing your purchase? If Wizards gave everyone free copies of digital books every time they bought a physical one, then no one would buy the digital book. I mean, if you can buy something for $30 on Amazon, and $30 on DDB, and if Amazon offers all DDB offers and the physical version too, then no one would buy from DDB anymore.
As enticing as it sounds, physical to digital would be an incredibly stupid company decision, and it's not happening. Wizard didn't buy DDB to get the company out of business, they bought it to actually make money. And who throws 146.3 million dollars into an investment, just to give it all away?
I would argue two things:
1) In Wizard's hands, DDB could pretty much be a decent cash cow on the subscription price alone.
2) If I'm not mistaken, the digital books are less expensive. Besides that, some people prefer them for convenience.
I'd argue that if Wizards wanted to go that way, it could quite probably still be a success. Some good planning/use of sinergies could even make it work better than as is, from a profit standpoint.
That said, I doubt it will ever happen. And if they ever get a VTT going, I also doubt it won't increase the subscription price.
1) Maybe, but just the subscriptions don't justify the 146.3 million dollar pricetag. DDB might be able to make some money of just subscriptions, but not nearly as much as they would have been able to before.
2) Not necessarily, Amazon prices things with MASSIVE discounts, the PHB on Amazon is more then 7 dollars less then the PHB on DDB. As long as Amazon and companies like it keeps giving discounts like this, then the prices will be equal to or less than the ones on DDB.
People wont bother to get the online version if they can get both the physical and digital versions at similar prices (which they can). This would massively hurt DDB financial wise and would cut the money they make into tiny fractions.
The compendium only content on DDB is only $20 USD. That’s $3 cheaper than Amazon’s price for the comparable product.
Just because prices go up does not mean they are going to throw more stuff into a product. Inflation does not impact just the final consumer, it impacts business's costs and expenses as well, and they are not going to spend more to manufacture their product unless it is vital to maximize their profit.
D&D and TTRPGs in general already has major issues appealing to and retaining main stream audiences. Sitting around a table to play pretend for hours on end is not exactly the definition of fun for most people, so not many people will be willing to try it, and many of those that do try are not going to last more than a few sessions. And there are many other major barriers like simply finding people to play the game with, agree upon a common schedule, the opportunity cost of doing another activity that is cheaper and/or more fun, etc. Since Wizards seems to be really focused on growing the market right now, I do not think it is a good idea to sell physical-digital bundled PHB for a higher discounted price when they could sell each individually for a lower price, given that it is already hard to convince people to start and stay playing.
I don't have any data to back it up, but seeing how many people ask for D&D Beyond codes when they already bought hardbacks makes me believe that WotC wouldn't lose anything and even had a lot to gain (with the subscription model), because most people don't want to buy stuff twice.
One thing you need to understand about digital sales it's that it doesn't cost much as opposed to selling books. Profit margins are much higher, but seeing how rather small the customer base really is, it would make sense to restructure the entire business side of D&D Beyond. Maybe even turn it into one big centralized digital & community platform of D&D. Hasbro won't stop at anything else than total monopoly anyway.
The thing with subscriptions is that people can just subscribe for one month and use the homebrew tools to copy everything for the digital tools and save webpages.
It still costs money to make digital goods. I am not convinced profit margins are high enough to warrant significant discounts. If the customer base is small, it makes even less sense to restructure your sales model if it there is not much customers to squeeze from.
I do not see Wizards developing a VTT on their own. I think it is less risky and makes more sense for them to pay a little more down the line and aqcuire a successful one, like how they did with Beyond.
Since neither Roll20 nor Fantasy Grounds is offering subscriptions that unlocks all content, I am not sure that is a viable sales model.
Really, I could make a working VTT myself in less than a month (also one that would probably look better than Roll20). It's not hard at all and there's even a guy who made Chrome extension into a VTT. The only problem would be integrating all the D&D Beyond stuff into it, but since they already have a character sheet - all it really needs to have is to parse that information onto chat (which already exists!). Everything is there and all you need is a tool that allows DMs to drop a map with tokens and the players to see that map and control the tokens.
Roll20 is not WotC - they can't offer services other than what WotC lets them to. Subscription is always better for profit than other business practices and seeing how Netflix ruined the entire home-cinema industry is a great example of it.
If it was really that easy to do, I am pretty sure Beyond would have made a VTT by now. Hell, they cannot even get their character sheet completely right.
Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds offer more than just D&D games. If neither VTT nor their other game makers are offering that type of subscription, it might not be a good enough sales model.
Just because prices go up does not mean they are going to throw more stuff into a product. Inflation does not impact just the final consumer, it impacts business's costs and expenses as well, and they are not going to spend more to manufacture their product unless it is vital to maximize their profit.
D&D and TTRPGs in general already has major issues appealing to and retaining main stream audiences. Sitting around a table to play pretend for hours on end is not exactly the definition of fun for most people, so not many people will be willing to try it, and many of those that do try are not going to last more than a few sessions. And there are many other major barriers like simply finding people to play the game with, agree upon a common schedule, the opportunity cost of doing another activity that is cheaper and/or more fun, etc. Since Wizards seems to be really focused on growing the market right now, I do not think it is a good idea to sell physical-digital bundled PHB for a higher discounted price when they could sell each individually for a lower price, given that it is already hard to convince people to start and stay playing.
I don't have any data to back it up, but seeing how many people ask for D&D Beyond codes when they already bought hardbacks makes me believe that WotC wouldn't lose anything and even had a lot to gain (with the subscription model), because most people don't want to buy stuff twice.
One thing you need to understand about digital sales it's that it doesn't cost much as opposed to selling books. Profit margins are much higher, but seeing how rather small the customer base really is, it would make sense to restructure the entire business side of D&D Beyond. Maybe even turn it into one big centralized digital & community platform of D&D. Hasbro won't stop at anything else than total monopoly anyway.
The thing with subscriptions is that people can just subscribe for one month and use the homebrew tools to copy everything for the digital tools and save webpages.
It still costs money to make digital goods. I am not convinced profit margins are high enough to warrant significant discounts. If the customer base is small, it makes even less sense to restructure your sales model if it there is not much customers to squeeze from.
I do not see Wizards developing a VTT on their own. I think it is less risky and makes more sense for them to pay a little more down the line and aqcuire a successful one, like how they did with Beyond.
Since neither Roll20 nor Fantasy Grounds is offering subscriptions that unlocks all content, I am not sure that is a viable sales model.
Really, I could make a working VTT myself in less than a month (also one that would probably look better than Roll20). It's not hard at all and there's even a guy who made Chrome extension into a VTT. The only problem would be integrating all the D&D Beyond stuff into it, but since they already have a character sheet - all it really needs to have is to parse that information onto chat (which already exists!). Everything is there and all you need is a tool that allows DMs to drop a map with tokens and the players to see that map and control the tokens.
Roll20 is not WotC - they can't offer services other than what WotC lets them to. Subscription is always better for profit than other business practices and seeing how Netflix ruined the entire home-cinema industry is a great example of it.
If it was really that easy to do, I am pretty sure Beyond would have made a VTT by now. Hell, they cannot even get their character sheet completely right.
Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds offer more than just D&D games. If neither VTT nor their other game makers are offering that type of subscription, it might not be a good enough sales model.
I doubt DDB doesn't have a VTT because of a lack of ability. Probably something to do with company direction or the deal with Wizards. AboveVTT is "living proof" of that.
However, I'd have to point out that AboveVTT has the advantage of not having to be a (nearly) finished product. Still, it works very well and I even ended up leaving Foundry for the sake of simplicity.
2) Not necessarily, Amazon prices things with MASSIVE discounts, the PHB on Amazon is more then 7 dollars less then the PHB on DDB. As long as Amazon and companies like it keeps giving discounts like this, then the prices will be equal to or less than the ones on DDB.
If we are comparing apples to apples though, Beyond is still cheaper if you want just the compendium content. The seven dollars extra for the digital tools is hands down so much better AND cheaper if you compare them to its closest physical equivalent.
Despite all its flaws and hick ups, I still rather use the digital character sheet than a physical one. Like, this is not even a discussion. As one of the youngest of millenials, I still remember writing draft essays by hand in elementary school and finishing it off on the computer, but once I got a little older in late elementary and middle school, it is way more common to just type the draft straight on the computer itself as there is no point in writing it out just to type it later. Digital is just so much cleaner and easier.
Beyond's monster database is simply superior to physical monster cards. While the physical monster cards is a huge step up from running monsters from the physical book, running monsters from a browser tab is so much easier in my opinion, and it keeps the physical table cleaner and allow more space for battle mats and food. If we compare Beyond's database to physical monster cards for MM, the database costs just $19.99 on Beyond, while Monster Cards on Amazon costs like $18 for only a fraction of the monsters in MM. The full book of MM on Beyond will set you back $29.99, while a physical MM plus three packs of cards will set you back around $80. Even if we pick a less egregious book like VGTM and MTOF, the physical cards cost almost as much as the physicl book itself, so you are still comparing $29.99 on Beyond before it got discontinued to like over $40 on Amazon.
Yes, I agree that digital offers things that physical does not, but that's exactly my point. If you can get a physical book within a 3 dollar range of a digital book, and get all the bonuses from on line, and the benefits of the physical version too, then most people will almost certainly take that. This will massively cut the amount of money DDB makes, and un-justify's (is that a word) the 146.3 price WotC payed to buy DDB.
Also, Amazon is not the only exception, Walmart has the PHB for 22.95 as well. Same for Target.
As long as the price range for both physical and digital remain in a similar ballpark as just digital, it's pretty clear what most people will be buying.
Just because prices go up does not mean they are going to throw more stuff into a product. Inflation does not impact just the final consumer, it impacts business's costs and expenses as well, and they are not going to spend more to manufacture their product unless it is vital to maximize their profit.
D&D and TTRPGs in general already has major issues appealing to and retaining main stream audiences. Sitting around a table to play pretend for hours on end is not exactly the definition of fun for most people, so not many people will be willing to try it, and many of those that do try are not going to last more than a few sessions. And there are many other major barriers like simply finding people to play the game with, agree upon a common schedule, the opportunity cost of doing another activity that is cheaper and/or more fun, etc. Since Wizards seems to be really focused on growing the market right now, I do not think it is a good idea to sell physical-digital bundled PHB for a higher discounted price when they could sell each individually for a lower price, given that it is already hard to convince people to start and stay playing.
I do not see Wizards developing a VTT on their own. I think it is less risky and makes more sense for them to pay a little more down the line and aqcuire a successful one, like how they did with Beyond.
Since neither Roll20 nor Fantasy Grounds is offering subscriptions that unlocks all content, I am not sure that is a viable sales model.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
1) Maybe, but just the subscriptions don't justify the 146.3 million dollar pricetag. DDB might be able to make some money of just subscriptions, but not nearly as much as they would have been able to before.
2) Not necessarily, Amazon prices things with
MASSIVE discounts, the PHB on Amazon is more then 7 dollars less then the PHB on DDB. As long as Amazon and companies like it keeps giving discounts like this, then the prices will be equal to or less than the ones on DDB.People wont bother to get the online version if they can get both the physical and digital versions at similar prices (which they can). This would massively hurt DDB financial wise and would cut the money they make into tiny fractions.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.If we are comparing apples to apples though, Beyond is still cheaper if you want just the compendium content. The seven dollars extra for the digital tools is hands down so much better AND cheaper if you compare them to its closest physical equivalent.
Despite all its flaws and hick ups, I still rather use the digital character sheet than a physical one. Like, this is not even a discussion. As one of the youngest of millenials, I still remember writing draft essays by hand in elementary school and finishing it off on the computer, but once I got a little older in late elementary and middle school, it is way more common to just type the draft straight on the computer itself as there is no point in writing it out just to type it later. Digital is just so much cleaner and easier.
Beyond's monster database is simply superior to physical monster cards. While the physical monster cards is a huge step up from running monsters from the physical book, running monsters from a browser tab is so much easier in my opinion, and it keeps the physical table cleaner and allow more space for battle mats and food. If we compare Beyond's database to physical monster cards for MM, the database costs just $19.99 on Beyond, while Monster Cards on Amazon costs like $18 for only a fraction of the monsters in MM. The full book of MM on Beyond will set you back $29.99, while a physical MM plus three packs of cards will set you back around $80. Even if we pick a less egregious book like VGTM and MTOF, the physical cards cost almost as much as the physicl book itself, so you are still comparing $29.99 on Beyond before it got discontinued to like over $40 on Amazon.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
The compendium only content on DDB is only $20 USD. That’s $3 cheaper than Amazon’s price for the comparable product.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
The thing with subscriptions is that people can just subscribe for one month and use the homebrew tools to copy everything for the digital tools and save webpages.
It still costs money to make digital goods. I am not convinced profit margins are high enough to warrant significant discounts. If the customer base is small, it makes even less sense to restructure your sales model if it there is not much customers to squeeze from.
If it was really that easy to do, I am pretty sure Beyond would have made a VTT by now. Hell, they cannot even get their character sheet completely right.
Roll20 and Fantasy Grounds offer more than just D&D games. If neither VTT nor their other game makers are offering that type of subscription, it might not be a good enough sales model.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
I doubt DDB doesn't have a VTT because of a lack of ability. Probably something to do with company direction or the deal with Wizards. AboveVTT is "living proof" of that.
However, I'd have to point out that AboveVTT has the advantage of not having to be a (nearly) finished product. Still, it works very well and I even ended up leaving Foundry for the sake of simplicity.
Yes, I agree that digital offers things that physical does not, but that's exactly my point. If you can get a physical book within a 3 dollar range of a digital book, and get all the bonuses from on line, and the benefits of the physical version too, then most people will almost certainly take that. This will massively cut the amount of money DDB makes, and un-justify's (is that a word) the 146.3 price WotC payed to buy DDB.
Also, Amazon is not the only exception, Walmart has the PHB for 22.95 as well. Same for Target.
As long as the price range for both physical and digital remain in a similar ballpark as just digital, it's pretty clear what most people will be buying.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.