So I guess I'll make a general topic for folks to discuss things on the book they like and dislike.
I like a lot of the content. School activities and such are interesting. But the one thing that just really for some reason rubs me the wrong way.... is that in a book about a magical school we get around 10 magic items, 5 of which do the same thing but slightly different..... and 1 spell for each college? We get a feat/background which is literally just magic initiate. Then we get a slightly better familiar?
When I preordered the book I saw the UA and was like "Man, they're adding all sorts of interesting subclasses. I bet there's going to be all sorts of spells and fun new content". But it feels like there is nothing unique about playing any of the colleges. What makes a Quandrix student unique mechanically from any other college? The only thing that makes it different is how you flavor things, mechanically there's very little.
The 'adventures' IE each year of class are interesting enough and there's a good bit of school info which is nice... Maybe it's just me.... but this feels more like an adventure book than a Sourcebook.
It's not just you. I've already responded to two different threads and have seen a third where people are complaining that it's a Sourcebook and not listed as an Adventure instead.
But I like the world setting, the structure provided, and I'm gonna use (and abuse) it for a few solo campaigns with friends.
My only mechanical concern is Silvery Barbs. It's too strong for 1st level.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
This certainly isn't Christmas for people who were hoping for more character creation options. 0 subclasses down from 5 in the unearthed arcana, I get that they were generally not liked in UA form but replacing them with a couple of backgrounds with spell lists, 2 feats (one of which requires the other), and 5 spells....I feel like I just got coal in my stocking. I preordered this because I at least thought a sourcebook would have more than this.
The Owlin has to be the most unimagined player race yet... you're an owlin... you have dark vision like just about everyone else, you can fly, and you are better at stealth... the end.
When Crawford said they had a backup to the UA after it received its criticism I was assuming it was more than 15 minutes of work writing a couple spell lists.... Last time I preorder if this is what they are delivering as a sourcebook now.
Not only were they 5 subclasses. They were the first ones useable with different classes. IE You could make a Silverquill Wizard, or a Silverquill Bard.
It's not just you. I've already responded to two different threads and have seen a third where people are complaining that it's a Sourcebook and not listed as an Adventure instead.
But I like the world setting, the structure provided, and I'm gonna use (and abuse) it for a few solo campaigns with friends.
My only mechanical concern is Silvery Barbs. It's too strong for 1st level.
Silvery Barbs is pretty broken yeah....if you made it a 2nd level spell I would say its more balanced.
But the one thing that just really for some reason rubs me the wrong way.... is that in a book about a magical school we get around 10 magic items, 5 of which do the same thing but slightly different..... and 1 spell for each college?
I want to point out you don't even get 10 magic items you get 8.... +1 weapon & a spell scroll are magic items that have been in 5e since the start.
That is 8 new magic items, 5 new magic spells..... in a book entirely centered around a magic school... that's disappointing to say the least.
The sour view is that the book was marketed, classified, and sold as a "Sourcebook". Sourcebooks are supposed to be generalized information, useful for anyone playing any adventure in the setting the sourcebook describes. Explorer's Guide to Wildemount is a sourcebook - it has tons of information about the setting it details, gives lots of background and world lore, and empowers a DM to create whatever adventure they wish in the world while giving players the information they need to make characters grounded in the setting.
Strixhaven has two short chapters dedicated to basic introductory material, and then spends the entire rest of its page count on one single adventure chain. Once you've played that adventure chain, the Strixhaven book becomes worthless. It does not empower a DM to create whatever adventures they wish in Discount Color Warz Harry Potter; it spoon-feeds a DM the one single adventure in the book und zat is it. If you like that adventure? Great! Awesome! Enjoy! But the books that spoon-feed a DM a single rigid, fixed, unbending adventure and which players are supposed to avoid reading at all costs are called "Adventure Books". Not "Sourcebooks". That distinction was abused here to sell more copies of Strixhaven than would have been sold had it been properly classified as an Adventure, and people who bought the thing thinking they were getting a sourcebook only to receive an adventure instead are justifiably salty about that.
It's very comparable to Wild Beyond the Witchlight, which Wizards also tried to panhandle off as a 'Sourcebook on the Feywild!", save that Wizards correctly classified Witchlight as an Adventure. Which meant people knew what they were getting when they purchased it and discovered it had almost no useful worldbuilding/adventure building lore but was instead almost nothing but a single, one-and-done rigid adventure. Satisfaction for Witchlight purchasers was high, but Wizards didn't care for the number of people who purchased Witchlight, so....here we are.
This lays out a whole campaign. It is a setting but also is a campaign. And I love both aspects. The backgrounds and feats are not really standalone though. They do not make sense outside of the setting (or some similar setting), so I can see how some would be upset over that.
And this right here is the problem. This is a sourcebook. Not an adventure. But it sets up a campaign and has adventures for most of the book. Had this been advertised and promised as an adventure I don't think anyone would have minded. But when you say its a sourcebook, things have certain expectations....
When the subclasses failed in the playtest and Crawford said they'd be feats instead, I expected they'd at least preserve some of the cool mechanics we saw in the playtest material. "Pick some spells" is really disappointing after seeing what we could have had.
Am withholding my opinion until I have more time to look over it, but those feats were the thing I was most excited to see.
And yet I can see a lot of folks taking this feat to get INT-based healing for their wizards and sorcerers.
Yeah, I probably wouldn't allow those feats use in a non-strixhaven game. They've already said they intentionally throw off the powercurve to make it feel like you are getting more bang for your buck and are supposed to be in line with the divine gifts from Theros. I think I'd bar players from using content from this book, in general, unless its relevant to my campaigns.
I legitimately don’t understand where your sour view on it is coming from
My sour view is that this book clearly was designed with the idea that the 5 Unearthed Arcana multiple subclasses that could be used by multiple classes were going to be the central focus for the "sourcebook" status. When that failed due to abnormally high complaints (unbalancing issues, lack of synergy with bases classes, and lack of interest in some of the choices) rather than actual fill that exceptionally large gap with something new or tweaks on the subclasses we got left with a large hole.
That hole in the book was filled with very little: 2 feats, 5 spells, 8 new magic items (of which most are very similar), and a couple spell list backgrounds. These are nice, I like these things... but it doesn't make up for the fact that it is listed and was advertised as a SOURCEBOOK not an adventure book.
And up until now, correct me if I am wrong most/all source books (minus monster manual type books & the DM book) have at least 2 new subclass additions up to 23 subclass additions (Tasha's).
So what we are left with a is "source book" missing far too much of the actual meat required of a "source book" . I am left feeling like because things didn't work out with the UA they abandoned it and then never adequately made up for this large missing chunk that was needed in the book. Their solution to removing these subclass choices were 5 backgrounds with spell lists which to me shows a very minimal effort to make up for what was lost.
Without this core chunk it is almost entirely an adventure book but was not advertised as this. I am not knocking it for its subject, I am not knocking it for its monsters, or the spells, or the quests, or the background. I am knocking it because its clear that what we got was an incomplete book that was falsely advertised.
I legitimately don’t understand where your sour view on it is coming from
This isn't an argument. We understand that you very much like this book. However, when other people are saying they don't like the book, they give reasons why they don't like the book. They point out features that they find lacking. If they were just to say "I don't like this book" and nothing more, then the response would be "That's nice. So what? Why should I care?"
Saying, as a counter point, "I actually like the book," and nothing more isn't constructive. It elicits the sort of reactions I described above, which is "so what?" If you can't give a counter argument to the position that this book is bad, for the above stated reasons, then your position isn't worth as much as those who did provide arguments to substantiate their positions. Just having an opinion isn't enough, you need to support it in order to be persuasive.
Listen, I get it, the owlin was probably overpowered. But why did they need to nerf it into oblivion? I was just in the character builder and it's so boring? It's literally just a slower Aaracockra with stealth and darkvision. Where's all this fey magic we saw in the UA? It's just garbage combined with the fact it doesn't get standard racial ASI's. Has no personality at all.
Imma be honest, this purchase was just for the DDB pre-order rewards in the end. This book is just disappointing so far.
There is a pretty good percentage of DMs/Players who view at will flight as extremely powerful.
I am in this boat myself as I view it as the best racial feature in the game. I know that there is a lot of contention around that idea and that a lot of people do not agree with me and that is fine...but honestly having a race being a much more powerful version of an existing race just isn't good for the game in the long run to me.
Flight is problematic for a bout 80% of most "normal" campaigns IMO (normal = ends at 10th level or before) as it is basically at-will 3rd level spell without the concentration component.
However, I do not agree with them nerfing the race as much as they did as the 30ft fly speed scaled back was enough to warrant at least one feature from UA.
Prof. are a joke at this point to obtain as you can get whatever you want basically during creation with the Tasha's rules (I like this by the way no complaints here)so having a preset skill just seems old fashioned...at least let them pick the skill.
Also innate magic seems to be intended for all characters based on the backgrounds offered so maybe that is why they removed that stuff? If so then they should have added something back at least....like a neck thing that lets them get ADV on a perception check a number of times per day equal to their Prof. Bonus?
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So I guess I'll make a general topic for folks to discuss things on the book they like and dislike.
I like a lot of the content. School activities and such are interesting. But the one thing that just really for some reason rubs me the wrong way.... is that in a book about a magical school we get around 10 magic items, 5 of which do the same thing but slightly different..... and 1 spell for each college? We get a feat/background which is literally just magic initiate. Then we get a slightly better familiar?
When I preordered the book I saw the UA and was like "Man, they're adding all sorts of interesting subclasses. I bet there's going to be all sorts of spells and fun new content". But it feels like there is nothing unique about playing any of the colleges. What makes a Quandrix student unique mechanically from any other college? The only thing that makes it different is how you flavor things, mechanically there's very little.
The 'adventures' IE each year of class are interesting enough and there's a good bit of school info which is nice...
Maybe it's just me.... but this feels more like an adventure book than a Sourcebook.
It's not just you. I've already responded to two different threads and have seen a third where people are complaining that it's a Sourcebook and not listed as an Adventure instead.
But I like the world setting, the structure provided, and I'm gonna use (and abuse) it for a few solo campaigns with friends.
My only mechanical concern is Silvery Barbs. It's too strong for 1st level.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
This certainly isn't Christmas for people who were hoping for more character creation options. 0 subclasses down from 5 in the unearthed arcana, I get that they were generally not liked in UA form but replacing them with a couple of backgrounds with spell lists, 2 feats (one of which requires the other), and 5 spells....I feel like I just got coal in my stocking. I preordered this because I at least thought a sourcebook would have more than this.
The Owlin has to be the most unimagined player race yet... you're an owlin... you have dark vision like just about everyone else, you can fly, and you are better at stealth... the end.
When Crawford said they had a backup to the UA after it received its criticism I was assuming it was more than 15 minutes of work writing a couple spell lists.... Last time I preorder if this is what they are delivering as a sourcebook now.
Not only were they 5 subclasses. They were the first ones useable with different classes. IE You could make a Silverquill Wizard, or a Silverquill Bard.
I am IN LOVE with this book. It’s pure awesome
Silvery Barbs is pretty broken yeah....if you made it a 2nd level spell I would say its more balanced.
I want to point out you don't even get 10 magic items you get 8.... +1 weapon & a spell scroll are magic items that have been in 5e since the start.
That is 8 new magic items, 5 new magic spells..... in a book entirely centered around a magic school... that's disappointing to say the least.
With a very tiny bit of reflavoring anything in the book would work in any setting
I legitimately don’t understand where your sour view on it is coming from
I think the main problem lies in the lack of useful tools for running your own magic school or any significant "magical" content for players or DMs.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The sour view is that the book was marketed, classified, and sold as a "Sourcebook". Sourcebooks are supposed to be generalized information, useful for anyone playing any adventure in the setting the sourcebook describes. Explorer's Guide to Wildemount is a sourcebook - it has tons of information about the setting it details, gives lots of background and world lore, and empowers a DM to create whatever adventure they wish in the world while giving players the information they need to make characters grounded in the setting.
Strixhaven has two short chapters dedicated to basic introductory material, and then spends the entire rest of its page count on one single adventure chain. Once you've played that adventure chain, the Strixhaven book becomes worthless. It does not empower a DM to create whatever adventures they wish in Discount Color Warz Harry Potter; it spoon-feeds a DM the one single adventure in the book und zat is it. If you like that adventure? Great! Awesome! Enjoy! But the books that spoon-feed a DM a single rigid, fixed, unbending adventure and which players are supposed to avoid reading at all costs are called "Adventure Books". Not "Sourcebooks". That distinction was abused here to sell more copies of Strixhaven than would have been sold had it been properly classified as an Adventure, and people who bought the thing thinking they were getting a sourcebook only to receive an adventure instead are justifiably salty about that.
It's very comparable to Wild Beyond the Witchlight, which Wizards also tried to panhandle off as a 'Sourcebook on the Feywild!", save that Wizards correctly classified Witchlight as an Adventure. Which meant people knew what they were getting when they purchased it and discovered it had almost no useful worldbuilding/adventure building lore but was instead almost nothing but a single, one-and-done rigid adventure. Satisfaction for Witchlight purchasers was high, but Wizards didn't care for the number of people who purchased Witchlight, so....here we are.
Please do not contact or message me.
And this right here is the problem. This is a sourcebook. Not an adventure. But it sets up a campaign and has adventures for most of the book. Had this been advertised and promised as an adventure I don't think anyone would have minded. But when you say its a sourcebook, things have certain expectations....
When the subclasses failed in the playtest and Crawford said they'd be feats instead, I expected they'd at least preserve some of the cool mechanics we saw in the playtest material. "Pick some spells" is really disappointing after seeing what we could have had.
Am withholding my opinion until I have more time to look over it, but those feats were the thing I was most excited to see.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
And yet I can see a lot of folks taking this feat to get INT-based healing for their wizards and sorcerers.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Yeah, I probably wouldn't allow those feats use in a non-strixhaven game. They've already said they intentionally throw off the powercurve to make it feel like you are getting more bang for your buck and are supposed to be in line with the divine gifts from Theros. I think I'd bar players from using content from this book, in general, unless its relevant to my campaigns.
My sour view is that this book clearly was designed with the idea that the 5 Unearthed Arcana multiple subclasses that could be used by multiple classes were going to be the central focus for the "sourcebook" status. When that failed due to abnormally high complaints (unbalancing issues, lack of synergy with bases classes, and lack of interest in some of the choices) rather than actual fill that exceptionally large gap with something new or tweaks on the subclasses we got left with a large hole.
That hole in the book was filled with very little: 2 feats, 5 spells, 8 new magic items (of which most are very similar), and a couple spell list backgrounds. These are nice, I like these things... but it doesn't make up for the fact that it is listed and was advertised as a SOURCEBOOK not an adventure book.
And up until now, correct me if I am wrong most/all source books (minus monster manual type books & the DM book) have at least 2 new subclass additions up to 23 subclass additions (Tasha's).
So what we are left with a is "source book" missing far too much of the actual meat required of a "source book" . I am left feeling like because things didn't work out with the UA they abandoned it and then never adequately made up for this large missing chunk that was needed in the book. Their solution to removing these subclass choices were 5 backgrounds with spell lists which to me shows a very minimal effort to make up for what was lost.
Without this core chunk it is almost entirely an adventure book but was not advertised as this. I am not knocking it for its subject, I am not knocking it for its monsters, or the spells, or the quests, or the background. I am knocking it because its clear that what we got was an incomplete book that was falsely advertised.
This isn't an argument. We understand that you very much like this book. However, when other people are saying they don't like the book, they give reasons why they don't like the book. They point out features that they find lacking. If they were just to say "I don't like this book" and nothing more, then the response would be "That's nice. So what? Why should I care?"
Saying, as a counter point, "I actually like the book," and nothing more isn't constructive. It elicits the sort of reactions I described above, which is "so what?" If you can't give a counter argument to the position that this book is bad, for the above stated reasons, then your position isn't worth as much as those who did provide arguments to substantiate their positions. Just having an opinion isn't enough, you need to support it in order to be persuasive.
Listen, I get it, the owlin was probably overpowered. But why did they need to nerf it into oblivion? I was just in the character builder and it's so boring? It's literally just a slower Aaracockra with stealth and darkvision. Where's all this fey magic we saw in the UA? It's just garbage combined with the fact it doesn't get standard racial ASI's. Has no personality at all.
Imma be honest, this purchase was just for the DDB pre-order rewards in the end. This book is just disappointing so far.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
There is a pretty good percentage of DMs/Players who view at will flight as extremely powerful.
I am in this boat myself as I view it as the best racial feature in the game. I know that there is a lot of contention around that idea and that a lot of people do not agree with me and that is fine...but honestly having a race being a much more powerful version of an existing race just isn't good for the game in the long run to me.
Flight is problematic for a bout 80% of most "normal" campaigns IMO (normal = ends at 10th level or before) as it is basically at-will 3rd level spell without the concentration component.
However, I do not agree with them nerfing the race as much as they did as the 30ft fly speed scaled back was enough to warrant at least one feature from UA.
Prof. are a joke at this point to obtain as you can get whatever you want basically during creation with the Tasha's rules (I like this by the way no complaints here)so having a preset skill just seems old fashioned...at least let them pick the skill.
Also innate magic seems to be intended for all characters based on the backgrounds offered so maybe that is why they removed that stuff? If so then they should have added something back at least....like a neck thing that lets them get ADV on a perception check a number of times per day equal to their Prof. Bonus?