I think part of the confusion is that there are different kinds of maturity that are getting intermixed here
Strict biological/sexual maturity might be when a species is capable of reproducing.
Physical maturation can also be synonymous with ageing process
Mental maturity as in being able to cope with difficult situations more calmly or accepting our own faults,
Spiritual maturity as in an emerging understanding of your own place or role in the great cosmos.
I think its fair to say that humans mature at different rates in these definitions, even before we add in all the other species of D&D. So I could easily imagine that most species reach physical maturity ahead of mental or spiritual maturity, but that they might base their definition of adulthood on any one of those categories (e.g. a kobold tribe might predominantly regard someone as mature when physically capable of mining and helping the tribe, while someone in an elvish society is only regarded as mature when a more fundamental understanding of their life and the cosmos is achieved).
For the purposes of D&D, I think it's sufficient to say that a person is mature when they can make the decision for themselves to go into a dungeon, or take up arms against a dragon. In real world terms it's roughly analogous to the minimum age for joining the military. It's a little different for different cultures, but it's easy if you just pick what your own culture uses.
There isn't a direct correlation between Elven maturity and Humans, specifically. The deeper lore describes how Elves go to heaven and merge with the memories of all their lives before being reincarnated. The first hundred years of an elves childhood is a struggle to recover from being taken out of heaven and sorting their identity from all the lives they still remember. As they get older the memories of their former lives fade away, along with their recollection of heaven, and they pine to accomplish adequate deeds to return to heaven.
Elves also get a thorough education from their mother telepathically before their born. It's not really equivocal to human maturity in the slightest, it's more like reverse maturation from a free Fae spirit back into the mortal coil. By the time they are considered "adults", is long after their bodies mature, and when they finally develop an individual sense of self apart from memories of their previous lives.
Elves are perhaps the least like humans in maturation. Except the Drow, Drow have been exiled from heaven and probably live a much more relatable childhood, with the obvious exception of a very vicious and cruel Edgelord upbringing.
There isn't a direct correlation between Elven maturity and Humans, specifically. The deeper lore describes how Elves go to heaven and merge with the memories of all their lives before being reincarnated. The first hundred years of an elves childhood is a struggle to recover from being taken out of heaven and sorting their identity from all the lives they still remember. As they get older the memories of their former lives fade away, along with their recollection of heaven, and they pine to accomplish adequate deeds to return to heaven.
Is this "deeper lore" specific to Forgotten Realms, or one of the other campaign settings?
The race description in the PHB says that they " reach physical maturity at about the same age as humans, the elven understanding of adulthood goes beyond physical growth to encompass worldly experience."
There isn't a direct correlation between Elven maturity and Humans, specifically. The deeper lore describes how Elves go to heaven and merge with the memories of all their lives before being reincarnated. The first hundred years of an elves childhood is a struggle to recover from being taken out of heaven and sorting their identity from all the lives they still remember. As they get older the memories of their former lives fade away, along with their recollection of heaven, and they pine to accomplish adequate deeds to return to heaven.
Is this "deeper lore" specific to Forgotten Realms, or one of the other campaign settings?
The race description in the PHB says that they " reach physical maturity at about the same age as humans, the elven understanding of adulthood goes beyond physical growth to encompass worldly experience."
I don't agree with the interpetation above, but the deeper lore on the Elves in D&D, the reveries and how elves grow up is covered in Mordenkaine's Tome of Foes, and specifically at: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/mtof/elves#LivinginReverie if you have purchased that book.
It's official lore from across several game books, previous editions and even novels. You'll have to ask the lore masters who gather this stuff about which comes from where, but several parts of the description even in the PHB tie the history of the publication to current descriptions. See the description of Trance.
So wanted to get other peoples thoughts on this. When dealing with a race that generally VASTLY outlives humans, how do you figure the whole "age to maturity" ratio? Like if a human tops out at 100 years, and an elf tops out at 2K. Does that mean a 100 year old elf is equal to a 5 year old human? Or are we looking at a "DBZ Saiyan" situation; where some races physically age to a certain point, then remain in that form for 80-95% of their life?
I'm basically trying to figure out how old to make an elf kid, so that they can have the wide eye innocence of youth, while not having an "8 year old" having been alive since the human (class)'s great grandpa was teething.
I think there’s an age chart somewhere that lists maturity ages? I’m not quite sure where exactly to find it but you could probably google it. The copy I saw was on the DND World discord server.
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— δ ψινο • the croc master • hε/hιm δ — “sᴏᴍᴇᴏɴᴇ, ɪ ᴛᴇʟʟ ʏᴏᴜ, ɪɴ ᴀɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀ ᴛɪᴍᴇ ᴡɪʟʟ ʀᴇᴍᴇᴍʙᴇʀ ᴜs.” ——————| EXTENDED SIG |—————— Φ • happily married to • ☁️ℝ𝔼𝔻ℙ𝔼𝕃𝕋☁️ • As vast as the sun, stars, and the sky itself, so is my promise to you • Φ
Link has a legitimate point about brain development. A child with a 5-year-old's brain will not process events the same way a 15-year-old brain would, and a brain that developed slower would proceed more slowly through mental and social development. That being said, there's no obvious reason elves would evolve that way, and you'd expect other drastic biological differences to come with it, like slower physical development, lowered metabolism, etc. That's just more unknown variables than I care to deal with.
Why don't they all rule the world as archmages when they reach 700 years old? One of the common ways we interpret long lived races is that they simply have different priorities. Humans are often characterized as the race of ambition and thirst for power with the understanding that the other races aren't like that. I like how the Tolkien elves eventually just peace out. They're done with living life as humans know it so they get get on a boat and go somewhere else.
I like to think of long-lived species living their lives in stages like this, where a given society the party encounters might just be elves between 50 and 200 years old. At around 200 they develop a wanderlust and explore the world. Or they retreat into isolated contemplation for a century before diminishing into the east. Or they enlist in the army and 90% of them die in glorious battle. Or they become adventurers and 99% of them die in glorious battle. Or all but the most rigorously prepared minds begin to deteriorate and descend into madness.
Age limits don't mean everyone lives that long, and they don't mean that a given elven settlement will have individuals across the entire age spectrum. You can have a lot of fun with it. The whole point is to give you a creative prompt and explore what could be.
Very coincidental that I see this the day after having done a podcast which includes this very topic. Obviously this can change from world to world and DM to DM, but we personally decided would be the determining factor is experiences. Has the 90 year old elf done anything except living day to day life in their village or have they been adventuring and roaming. Has the human been isolated and suddenly expected to adapt after 20 years or more. Felt this was an awesome topic. To get back to the answer though, See it as physically mature at the same rate but experience shaping their mental age, it goes with an unfortunately common trope of but they are experienced for their age.
I saw a campaign where the DM made a one-shot focused around the Elf character's clan-required 100th-year naming ceremony. (The overarching campaign already lasted a couple of IRL years, and the character started at 99 years of age.) She really didn't want to change her name—declining would mean permanent exile—but at the ceremony, the party uncovered a murderous plot involving the elders of the reclusive forest village—a place where only those born in the village could find the village on their own, and the journey only took a few days no matter where the villagers began travelling there. (Convenient! No?)
The difference in ages and customs can provide a nice story hook in the right hands.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Great question! To estimate an elf's age compared to a human, use an age calculator based on their lifespan ratio.
For example, if elves live 2,000 years and humans 100, a 200-year-old elf might be like a 10-year-old human in maturity. This approach helps balance the elven age with their level of innocence.
I think part of the confusion is that there are different kinds of maturity that are getting intermixed here
Strict biological/sexual maturity might be when a species is capable of reproducing.
Physical maturation can also be synonymous with ageing process
Mental maturity as in being able to cope with difficult situations more calmly or accepting our own faults,
Spiritual maturity as in an emerging understanding of your own place or role in the great cosmos.
I think its fair to say that humans mature at different rates in these definitions, even before we add in all the other species of D&D. So I could easily imagine that most species reach physical maturity ahead of mental or spiritual maturity, but that they might base their definition of adulthood on any one of those categories (e.g. a kobold tribe might predominantly regard someone as mature when physically capable of mining and helping the tribe, while someone in an elvish society is only regarded as mature when a more fundamental understanding of their life and the cosmos is achieved).
Tell me what you you are trying to achieve - we're telling this story together ....at least I thought we were - Now I am not so sure [OGL 1.1]
For the purposes of D&D, I think it's sufficient to say that a person is mature when they can make the decision for themselves to go into a dungeon, or take up arms against a dragon. In real world terms it's roughly analogous to the minimum age for joining the military. It's a little different for different cultures, but it's easy if you just pick what your own culture uses.
There isn't a direct correlation between Elven maturity and Humans, specifically. The deeper lore describes how Elves go to heaven and merge with the memories of all their lives before being reincarnated. The first hundred years of an elves childhood is a struggle to recover from being taken out of heaven and sorting their identity from all the lives they still remember. As they get older the memories of their former lives fade away, along with their recollection of heaven, and they pine to accomplish adequate deeds to return to heaven.
Elves also get a thorough education from their mother telepathically before their born. It's not really equivocal to human maturity in the slightest, it's more like reverse maturation from a free Fae spirit back into the mortal coil. By the time they are considered "adults", is long after their bodies mature, and when they finally develop an individual sense of self apart from memories of their previous lives.
Elves are perhaps the least like humans in maturation. Except the Drow, Drow have been exiled from heaven and probably live a much more relatable childhood, with the obvious exception of a very vicious and cruel Edgelord upbringing.
Is this "deeper lore" specific to Forgotten Realms, or one of the other campaign settings?
The race description in the PHB says that they " reach physical maturity at about the same age as humans, the elven understanding of adulthood goes beyond physical growth to encompass worldly experience."
I don't agree with the interpetation above, but the deeper lore on the Elves in D&D, the reveries and how elves grow up is covered in Mordenkaine's Tome of Foes, and specifically at: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/mtof/elves#LivinginReverie if you have purchased that book.
It's official lore from across several game books, previous editions and even novels. You'll have to ask the lore masters who gather this stuff about which comes from where, but several parts of the description even in the PHB tie the history of the publication to current descriptions. See the description of Trance.
I think there’s an age chart somewhere that lists maturity ages? I’m not quite sure where exactly to find it but you could probably google it. The copy I saw was on the DND World discord server.
— δ ψινο • the croc master • hε/hιm δ —
“sᴏᴍᴇᴏɴᴇ, ɪ ᴛᴇʟʟ ʏᴏᴜ, ɪɴ ᴀɴᴏᴛʜᴇʀ ᴛɪᴍᴇ ᴡɪʟʟ ʀᴇᴍᴇᴍʙᴇʀ ᴜs.”
——————| EXTENDED SIG |——————
Φ • happily married to • ☁️ℝ𝔼𝔻ℙ𝔼𝕃𝕋☁️ • As vast as the sun, stars, and the sky itself, so is my promise to you • Φ
Link has a legitimate point about brain development. A child with a 5-year-old's brain will not process events the same way a 15-year-old brain would, and a brain that developed slower would proceed more slowly through mental and social development. That being said, there's no obvious reason elves would evolve that way, and you'd expect other drastic biological differences to come with it, like slower physical development, lowered metabolism, etc. That's just more unknown variables than I care to deal with.
Why don't they all rule the world as archmages when they reach 700 years old? One of the common ways we interpret long lived races is that they simply have different priorities. Humans are often characterized as the race of ambition and thirst for power with the understanding that the other races aren't like that. I like how the Tolkien elves eventually just peace out. They're done with living life as humans know it so they get get on a boat and go somewhere else.
I like to think of long-lived species living their lives in stages like this, where a given society the party encounters might just be elves between 50 and 200 years old. At around 200 they develop a wanderlust and explore the world. Or they retreat into isolated contemplation for a century before diminishing into the east. Or they enlist in the army and 90% of them die in glorious battle. Or they become adventurers and 99% of them die in glorious battle. Or all but the most rigorously prepared minds begin to deteriorate and descend into madness.
Age limits don't mean everyone lives that long, and they don't mean that a given elven settlement will have individuals across the entire age spectrum. You can have a lot of fun with it. The whole point is to give you a creative prompt and explore what could be.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Well said.
Very coincidental that I see this the day after having done a podcast which includes this very topic. Obviously this can change from world to world and DM to DM, but we personally decided would be the determining factor is experiences. Has the 90 year old elf done anything except living day to day life in their village or have they been adventuring and roaming. Has the human been isolated and suddenly expected to adapt after 20 years or more. Felt this was an awesome topic. To get back to the answer though, See it as physically mature at the same rate but experience shaping their mental age, it goes with an unfortunately common trope of but they are experienced for their age.
I saw a campaign where the DM made a one-shot focused around the Elf character's clan-required 100th-year naming ceremony. (The overarching campaign already lasted a couple of IRL years, and the character started at 99 years of age.) She really didn't want to change her name—declining would mean permanent exile—but at the ceremony, the party uncovered a murderous plot involving the elders of the reclusive forest village—a place where only those born in the village could find the village on their own, and the journey only took a few days no matter where the villagers began travelling there. (Convenient! No?)
The difference in ages and customs can provide a nice story hook in the right hands.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Great question! To estimate an elf's age compared to a human, use an age calculator based on their lifespan ratio.
For example, if elves live 2,000 years and humans 100, a 200-year-old elf might be like a 10-year-old human in maturity. This approach helps balance the elven age with their level of innocence.