Let's stay friendly about this... and actually talk about why we want what we want.
There's a couple groups of races I think should be there. The "Tolkien Races" for people coming in. The "Divine Races" for reluctant readers. An Animal System for Mythical races (similar to the half-race system).
This means Dwarves, Elves, Giants (Goliath), Goblins, Halflings, and Orcs. Then for the divine you have Aasimar, Genasi, and Tieflings... though Ardlings and Gnolls wouldn't be bad. Lastly, a system for Minotaurs, Centaurs, Dryads, and Merfolk, because myth is great... and people love Merfolk.
What should be core depends on what you want a new player to think what D&D is when they open the Players Handbook, I reckon.
I mean hey, I have an opinion, but it's just to please me. What is the best way to do this today? Well, in 2024 anyho'. But just to say; I gotta think putting in something beyond just the original, core Lord of the Rings cast of characters, so to speak, might be a good idea to show that the game doesn't have to be that.
Or, should the core books remain with the core cast of characters because that's what people sorta think D&D is anyway. Keep everything else in supplements as we pretty much do now? Why fix what isn't broken?
As I said before, it all come down to WoTC and their intent.
I think fairly standard fantastical races. Not just the tolkienian ones.
fairies, centaurs, minotaurs, satryrs, as well maybe some of the other monsters, goblin should be in the core book.
Obviously there's a limit but I think fairy, and goblin should be core. fairy have a fly speed and getting that settled into core DND for base characters would help tamp down on DMs whom hate all flying. As well goblins are one of if not the most stable monster races in any campaign I think the inclusion of them should be pretty high priority.
I don't really see the point of these arguments. If, come 2024, people don't like the cast of races in the updated PHB, they'll have the trove of races already released to play with. I wouldn't be surprised if WotC produced a free update document to bring the older out-of-date races into the 1d&d fold.
I'm of the mind that it barely matters if things stay as they are; you can throw a thousand races or just humans in there and it doesn't really make a difference because their is an active decision to go full lore agnostic which means it's like comparing off-brand flat colas.
Like the 4e essentials entry on humans was longer then the lore on any of the playable races in multiverse.
Any D&D race that is cool or one that people liked should be in the core rules, as long as other things are not taken out in its place.
I personally like having lot's of races for players to choose from. If you don't feel comfortable or enjoy playing one of them, you don't have to play it, but it's good for other people to have the option of playing it even if you don't want to
What I don't like is certain races being replaced and taken out of D&D or shoved into non-core books. However, adding a new race to D&D doesn't have to come at the cost of others, and in my opinion at least, it shouldn't.
Personally, some of the D&D races I really want to be or stay (depending on the race) in the core rules are the Tolkien species', Goblinoids, Aaracokra, Aasimar, and I'd also like to see a lot of the races from Spelljammer.
For me: Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Hin (Halflings), Orcs, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Half-Elves, Half-Dwarves, Half-Gnomes, Half-Orcs, Half-Goblins, Half-Hobgoblins, and Half-Ogres. Those have been my world’s “standard” races since 2e. Anything else would be “exotic” races on my world and I would prefer to see in a supplement.
All of them. Rulebooks are supposed to be "setting agnostic" now, right? Give me all the options and let me pick and choose which ones I want in my game
My home game uses human/elf/dwarf/gnome/halfling and orc/goblin/dragonborn/kobold for PC races, with one player also being a shifter (from a family of elves) as it's not treated as a separate race. That's it. I wouldn't tell someone else they could only use those options in their own game, though
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How have you done your halfzies? And thank you for sharing.
PM me and I’ll show you some of what I was working with. In general I modeled them off of the Half-Elf for this edition. (In older editions they were different.)
I don't really see the point of these arguments. If, come 2024, people don't like the cast of races in the updated PHB, they'll have the trove of races already released to play with. I wouldn't be surprised if WotC produced a free update document to bring the older out-of-date races into the 1d&d fold.
You're right that those of us here invested in 5e will still have access to their presentation in 5e products ... which will become legacy products presumably as the core gets replaced by WOTC PROJEKT D&D 2024 GOLD. So I guess the point of the argument is concerns over how race/lineage/origin is handled for the next generation of players who will have access primarily to those books. Backwards compatible, my read = legacy content. If you own it, great you keep using it. But don't be expecting to buy a 5e PHB on DDB once WOTC PROJEKT D&D 2024 GOLD'S Tutorial for Players (TP), Instructive for Dungeon Masters (IDM), and Monstrous Monograph (MM) become available.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I would have Core Races broken down into 'Racial Groups', rather than '7 core races'.
Goblinods: Break this down into Bugbears, Goblins and Hobgblins. Your typical 'reviled as monsters but are actually people' filler content and how these races are pushed into savagery in some worlds, and in others are no more or less citizens than any Elf, Man or Dwarf.
Human-Blooded: Break this down into Humans, Gith, Yuan-Ti Purebloods, Shifters, Halflings and Changelings. Basic 'Humans' who also include races that have been altered by sorcery, the will of the Gods and terrible curses.
Fey-Descended: Break this down into Elves, Firbolgs, Gnomes, Eladrins and Satyrs. Basically Fey that were either trapped, or chose to stay, on the Material Plane and slowly lost the bulk of their connection to the Feywild as a result.
Born of Stone: Dwarves, Orcs and Goliaths. Gives a short description of the various races and their ties to the mountains and deep places of the earth.
Children of the Planes: Tieflings, Aasimar, Genasai. A short description of how overwhelming power can alter not only the children of powerful spellcasters, but can even affect others within range of such potent magic, and the machinations of powerful Planar entities to try and manipulate the Material Plane via loopholes which can often result in free-willed children and bloodlines.
Children of the Wilds: Minotaurs, Centaurs, Tabaxi, Loxodon, Tortollan, etc, the beast-type races. Plays up the aspect that sentience can arise from many different wellsprings and that the civilised races are merely the latest attempt by the Gods to make the 'perfect' race, and the so-called Beast Races are their predecessors ... and may yet replace the modern races again.
Children of the Dragons: Kobolds, Lizardfolk, Metallic Dragonborn, Chromatic Dragonborn, Gem Dragonborn. Plays up the aspect that Dragons are formidable and dangerous entities both physically and magically, and their long and grinding war with the Giants across many worlds through-out history.
Agreed that it's basically a matter of creating a first impression.
D&D is meant to be a broad fantasy game system. It should hit a lot of fantasy races. You can leave out anything super setting-specific, like giff. Nobody knows what a giff is.
So: Humans, obviously. Elves and dwarves, for Tolkien fans. Angels and devils. Animal people, for Thundercats fans. Fairies, because fairy tales. Inanimate objects given life, including treants and robots and undead. That's all the really important ones, I think. I guess gnomes and halflings if you really care. I don't think they're any more necessary than, like, firbolgs.
They could have "choose one" features and setting names. "In Faerun, reptiles with the Breath Weapon trait are called dragonborn, and ones with the Brave feat are called kobolds." Stuff like that.
For me I feel in addition to your categories there should be an additional category called the weird races....
This would be things that are deliberately odd... Something like Warforged, Changeling, Plasmoid, Thri-Kreen, Simic Hybrid(but call it something else) races that aren't strictly humanoid
Let's stay friendly about this... and actually talk about why we want what we want.
There's a couple groups of races I think should be there. The "Tolkien Races" for people coming in. The "Divine Races" for reluctant readers. An Animal System for Mythical races (similar to the half-race system).
This means Dwarves, Elves, Giants (Goliath), Goblins, Halflings, and Orcs. Then for the divine you have Aasimar, Genasi, and Tieflings... though Ardlings and Gnolls wouldn't be bad. Lastly, a system for Minotaurs, Centaurs, Dryads, and Merfolk, because myth is great... and people love Merfolk.
That's what I feel should be core.
Gnolls and Minotaurs don't have free will and should not be humanoids, let alone playable, full stop. Ardlings appear to be the new Aasimar, so I suspect that is a distinction without a difference. If you allow Centaurs to be "core" you have no valid basis for excluding almost any race from being "core".
I personally would like Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings, Tieflings, Aasimar, Orcs, Goblinoids, Dragonborn, and maybe also Shifter and Genasi to be in the core rules. Although I might remove Dragonborn because they're a weird fit.
Let's stay friendly about this... and actually talk about why we want what we want. [Snip]
Gnolls and Minotaurs don't have free will and should not be humanoids, let alone playable, full stop. Ardlings appear to be the new Aasimar, so I suspect that is a distinction without a difference. If you allow Centaurs to be "core" you have no valid basis for excluding almost any race from being "core".
That doesn't sound very friendly.
Ardlings aren't replacing anything. Aasimar are staying where they are -- in a splatbook. (Though tbh I think ardlings aren't even FOR 6e, they're for Planescape. We'll see.)
OP's choices make me think they're a Magic player. ;)
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Let's stay friendly about this... and actually talk about why we want what we want.
There's a couple groups of races I think should be there. The "Tolkien Races" for people coming in. The "Divine Races" for reluctant readers. An Animal System for Mythical races (similar to the half-race system).
This means Dwarves, Elves, Giants (Goliath), Goblins, Halflings, and Orcs. Then for the divine you have Aasimar, Genasi, and Tieflings... though Ardlings and Gnolls wouldn't be bad. Lastly, a system for Minotaurs, Centaurs, Dryads, and Merfolk, because myth is great... and people love Merfolk.
That's what I feel should be core.
What should be core depends on what you want a new player to think what D&D is when they open the Players Handbook, I reckon.
I mean hey, I have an opinion, but it's just to please me. What is the best way to do this today? Well, in 2024 anyho'. But just to say; I gotta think putting in something beyond just the original, core Lord of the Rings cast of characters, so to speak, might be a good idea to show that the game doesn't have to be that.
Or, should the core books remain with the core cast of characters because that's what people sorta think D&D is anyway. Keep everything else in supplements as we pretty much do now? Why fix what isn't broken?
As I said before, it all come down to WoTC and their intent.
I think fairly standard fantastical races. Not just the tolkienian ones.
fairies, centaurs, minotaurs, satryrs, as well maybe some of the other monsters, goblin should be in the core book.
Obviously there's a limit but I think fairy, and goblin should be core. fairy have a fly speed and getting that settled into core DND for base characters would help tamp down on DMs whom hate all flying. As well goblins are one of if not the most stable monster races in any campaign I think the inclusion of them should be pretty high priority.
I don't really see the point of these arguments. If, come 2024, people don't like the cast of races in the updated PHB, they'll have the trove of races already released to play with. I wouldn't be surprised if WotC produced a free update document to bring the older out-of-date races into the 1d&d fold.
I'm of the mind that it barely matters if things stay as they are; you can throw a thousand races or just humans in there and it doesn't really make a difference because their is an active decision to go full lore agnostic which means it's like comparing off-brand flat colas.
Like the 4e essentials entry on humans was longer then the lore on any of the playable races in multiverse.
Any D&D race that is cool or one that people liked should be in the core rules, as long as other things are not taken out in its place.
I personally like having lot's of races for players to choose from. If you don't feel comfortable or enjoy playing one of them, you don't have to play it, but it's good for other people to have the option of playing it even if you don't want to
What I don't like is certain races being replaced and taken out of D&D or shoved into non-core books. However, adding a new race to D&D doesn't have to come at the cost of others, and in my opinion at least, it shouldn't.
Personally, some of the D&D races I really want to be or stay (depending on the race) in the core rules are the Tolkien species', Goblinoids, Aaracokra, Aasimar, and I'd also like to see a lot of the races from Spelljammer.
Edit: I also forgot Kobolds:)
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HERE.For me: Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Hin (Halflings), Orcs, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Half-Elves, Half-Dwarves, Half-Gnomes, Half-Orcs, Half-Goblins, Half-Hobgoblins, and Half-Ogres. Those have been my world’s “standard” races since 2e. Anything else would be “exotic” races on my world and I would prefer to see in a supplement.
Edit: I forgot Kobolds.
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All of them. Rulebooks are supposed to be "setting agnostic" now, right? Give me all the options and let me pick and choose which ones I want in my game
My home game uses human/elf/dwarf/gnome/halfling and orc/goblin/dragonborn/kobold for PC races, with one player also being a shifter (from a family of elves) as it's not treated as a separate race. That's it. I wouldn't tell someone else they could only use those options in their own game, though
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
How have you done your halfzies? And thank you for sharing.
PM me and I’ll show you some of what I was working with. In general I modeled them off of the Half-Elf for this edition. (In older editions they were different.)
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
You're right that those of us here invested in 5e will still have access to their presentation in 5e products ... which will become legacy products presumably as the core gets replaced by WOTC PROJEKT D&D 2024 GOLD. So I guess the point of the argument is concerns over how race/lineage/origin is handled for the next generation of players who will have access primarily to those books. Backwards compatible, my read = legacy content. If you own it, great you keep using it. But don't be expecting to buy a 5e PHB on DDB once WOTC PROJEKT D&D 2024 GOLD'S Tutorial for Players (TP), Instructive for Dungeon Masters (IDM), and Monstrous Monograph (MM) become available.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I would have Core Races broken down into 'Racial Groups', rather than '7 core races'.
Goblinods: Break this down into Bugbears, Goblins and Hobgblins. Your typical 'reviled as monsters but are actually people' filler content and how these races are pushed into savagery in some worlds, and in others are no more or less citizens than any Elf, Man or Dwarf.
Human-Blooded: Break this down into Humans, Gith, Yuan-Ti Purebloods, Shifters, Halflings and Changelings. Basic 'Humans' who also include races that have been altered by sorcery, the will of the Gods and terrible curses.
Fey-Descended: Break this down into Elves, Firbolgs, Gnomes, Eladrins and Satyrs. Basically Fey that were either trapped, or chose to stay, on the Material Plane and slowly lost the bulk of their connection to the Feywild as a result.
Born of Stone: Dwarves, Orcs and Goliaths. Gives a short description of the various races and their ties to the mountains and deep places of the earth.
Children of the Planes: Tieflings, Aasimar, Genasai. A short description of how overwhelming power can alter not only the children of powerful spellcasters, but can even affect others within range of such potent magic, and the machinations of powerful Planar entities to try and manipulate the Material Plane via loopholes which can often result in free-willed children and bloodlines.
Children of the Wilds: Minotaurs, Centaurs, Tabaxi, Loxodon, Tortollan, etc, the beast-type races. Plays up the aspect that sentience can arise from many different wellsprings and that the civilised races are merely the latest attempt by the Gods to make the 'perfect' race, and the so-called Beast Races are their predecessors ... and may yet replace the modern races again.
Children of the Dragons: Kobolds, Lizardfolk, Metallic Dragonborn, Chromatic Dragonborn, Gem Dragonborn. Plays up the aspect that Dragons are formidable and dangerous entities both physically and magically, and their long and grinding war with the Giants across many worlds through-out history.
One or more species from each iconic location in the multiverse:
Material Plane - Dragonborn
Feywild - Elf, Gnome?
Underground but not too underground - Dwarf
Anywhere, but possibly originating from Sigil - Human
Inner Planes - Genasi
Outer Planes - Aasimar, tiefling
Underdark or a world’s closest equivalent - elves are already taken, but we con put Drow here.
Shadowfell - Shadar-kai? Reborn? It doesn’t really have an iconic inhabitant.
Tiefling, Human, Elf, Dwarf, Tiefling, Halfling, Gnome, Orc, Goliath, Aasimar, and Tiefling. Those would be my preferred PHB races.
And Tiefling
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Agreed that it's basically a matter of creating a first impression.
D&D is meant to be a broad fantasy game system. It should hit a lot of fantasy races. You can leave out anything super setting-specific, like giff. Nobody knows what a giff is.
So: Humans, obviously. Elves and dwarves, for Tolkien fans. Angels and devils. Animal people, for Thundercats fans. Fairies, because fairy tales. Inanimate objects given life, including treants and robots and undead. That's all the really important ones, I think. I guess gnomes and halflings if you really care. I don't think they're any more necessary than, like, firbolgs.
They could have "choose one" features and setting names. "In Faerun, reptiles with the Breath Weapon trait are called dragonborn, and ones with the Brave feat are called kobolds." Stuff like that.
For me I feel in addition to your categories there should be an additional category called the weird races....
This would be things that are deliberately odd... Something like Warforged, Changeling, Plasmoid, Thri-Kreen, Simic Hybrid(but call it something else) races that aren't strictly humanoid
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Gnolls and Minotaurs don't have free will and should not be humanoids, let alone playable, full stop. Ardlings appear to be the new Aasimar, so I suspect that is a distinction without a difference. If you allow Centaurs to be "core" you have no valid basis for excluding almost any race from being "core".
I personally would like Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings, Tieflings, Aasimar, Orcs, Goblinoids, Dragonborn, and maybe also Shifter and Genasi to be in the core rules. Although I might remove Dragonborn because they're a weird fit.
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That doesn't sound very friendly.
Ardlings aren't replacing anything. Aasimar are staying where they are -- in a splatbook. (Though tbh I think ardlings aren't even FOR 6e, they're for Planescape. We'll see.)
OP's choices make me think they're a Magic player. ;)