One thing I do not think people have mentioned, is how you run your play by post game? And if there might be things there that can be streamlined or changed to keep the game going. So in general how do you run your play by post game? And what do you expect of the players and yourself?
For example: When I was doing play by post there was a time we were trying to get multiple turns done in day but a number of players could not be at their PC during that time frame so we went back to me issuing a turn 1-2 days in advance of the required post time.
To be honest I don’t think this is going to go anywhere. I mean, he had the temerity to tell me (a veteran player and dm in multiple different game systems of around 35 years) that I was wrong in not liking play by post games. I’m pretty sure I am old enough and experienced enough to know what style games I enjoy. That pretty much sums up all you need to know about why his games fell apart.
If that was me I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that some themes and situations do not work well in play by post, from my experience in playing in them. Quick action encounters can stretch out over days and or weeks due to players taking multiple small actions that have to interact with each other. Where as when you play in person or live those interactions can be easy(er) to deal with in a much more timely manner.
I think Beardsinger was referring to Acromos, specifically in post #31.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
To be honest I don’t think this is going to go anywhere. I mean, he had the temerity to tell me (a veteran player and dm in multiple different game systems of around 35 years) that I was wrong in not liking play by post games. I’m pretty sure I am old enough and experienced enough to know what style games I enjoy. That pretty much sums up all you need to know about why his games fell apart.
If that was me I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that some themes and situations do not work well in play by post, from my experience in playing in them. Quick action encounters can stretch out over days and or weeks due to players taking multiple small actions that have to interact with each other. Where as when you play in person or live those interactions can be easy(er) to deal with in a much more timely manner.
I think Beardsinger was referring to Acromos, specifically in post #31.
No problem I just wanted to make sure I did not doing anything I did not intend to do or my language was such that it implied something I was not intending it to.
Have you run a game like this before? How long did lit last? How is your game different now then then? How long between turns? How much reading is involved? Do they feel like they are in control of their PC or are actions predetermined. Is the story too fast or slow?
Are you trying to monetize your PbP game? Sending spam to them, requiring them to watch 2 min of adds before each turn or the free time runs out and then they have to play?
Are players in a specific age group? Does the game start at a specific time of the year and ends at a specific time of the year (ie summer then back to school). Do the players simply time out and want a change to something else.
Again I would mention that I have talked to people that had trouble with politics, profanity and other things and that is why they decided to quit. I am not saying it is in your game or that people may or may not have interpreted your posts that way but again I have seen this and things like ti to be a reason for quitting.
I hope that helps but some more basic questions trying to id any possible issue could be helpful. IMHO treat this issue like a business would a failed product or a product that was not as successful then it was supposed to be.
Have you run a game like this before? How long did lit last? How is your game different now then then? How long between turns? How much reading is involved? Do they feel like they are in control of their PC or are actions predetermined. Is the story too fast or slow?
Are you trying to monetize your PbP game? Sending spam to them, requiring them to watch 2 min of adds before each turn or the free time runs out and then they have to play?
Are players in a specific age group? Does the game start at a specific time of the year and ends at a specific time of the year (ie summer then back to school). Do the players simply time out and want a change to something else.
Again I would mention that I have talked to people that had trouble with politics, profanity and other things and that is why they decided to quit. I am not saying it is in your game or that people may or may not have interpreted your posts that way but again I have seen this and things like ti to be a reason for quitting.
I hope that helps but some more basic questions trying to id any possible issue could be helpful. IMHO treat this issue like a business would a failed product or a product that was not as successful then it was supposed to be.
Have you run a game like this before? I've run several pbp games, some long, others stillborn.
How long did lit last? Some have lasted years.
How is your game different now then then? I dunno.
How long between turns? Time between turns is a variable - basically, it depends on player posting rates. I post several times a day, if needed.
How much reading is involved? I sometimes write a lot, but mostly not so much.
Do they feel like they are in control of their PC or are actions predetermined? I basically play open world. That is often a problem, because players have too little direction.
Do they feel like they are in control of their PC or are actions predetermined? I think the story flows at the right pace, but ... see above. Without direction, sometimes the game stalls, and other times if might move too fast.
Are you trying to monetize your PbP game? Don't be absurd. I'm a mediocre GM, no one in their right minds would pay to play with me =)
Are players in a specific age group? I don't know - they're online, I don't know, don't ask, don't care. But maybe I should.
Does the game start at a specific time of the year and ends at a specific time of the year (ie summer then back to school)? No.
Do the players simply time out and want a change to something else? I doubt the players 'time out', but I cannot rule it out.
I agree that certain topics can be problematic, but I don't see them coming up - ever. As a player in pbp, I've seen it a few times. But never in my own.
A failed product, eh? Sure. If I could, I'd do a focus group with present and past users of the product, and look for insights - but since I can't do that, what I'm doing instead is ask the board of directors for their wisdom and advice (that's you guys).
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
So, an essential mechanic of the game (the bugmen one) was that ... you can do what you like. You want your character to live? Well, then run away. But there's a cost to that, you're weakening the defence, losing the encounter perhaps. But you're more than welcome to play that guy. Or girl, as it were. Another core mechanic was the investment of forces: They're soldiers, they're there to fight - and potentially die. Position them right, give the right orders, and you will inflict greater losses on the bugmen, winning time - maybe even allowing retreat rather than death.
I want to join in with the others here to say that this is not as fun as you think it is.
A losing campaign is fine. The issue is that you're asking the players to sacrifice their characters to save a bunch of nameless, faceless NPCs. Over and over and over.
From a DM perspective, this setup is just fine. No matter what, your story continues. But the players are essentially throwing meat into a blender. They don't get to have character arcs (and let's be honest here, "You are free to be a coward and let everyone else die" is not a real choice). They don't get to know their characters. Their story does not continue. They are just extras in yours.
I think if you flipped this, you'd get a lot more player engagement. Losses don't mean the PCs all die, it means you didn't save this group of NPCs, or secure this resource, or whatever. You can certainly still kill PCs, but it should not be written into the campaign design because nobody likes playing that way. Even if they think they might. I've done meat grinder campaigns and they just don't ever last because the players can never truly relate to the world.
Let the PCs survive to save the next group of citizens. This is a roleplaying game. You cannot really sink into your character until you get to know them by playing the game for a while. A game set up to prevent this is killing the primary motivator for the players, and will fail.
To be honest I don’t think this is going to go anywhere. I mean, he had the temerity to tell me (a veteran player and dm in multiple different game systems of around 35 years) that I was wrong in not liking play by post games. I’m pretty sure I am old enough and experienced enough to know what style games I enjoy. That pretty much sums up all you need to know about why his games fell apart.
If that was me I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that some themes and situations do not work well in play by post, from my experience in playing in them. Quick action encounters can stretch out over days and or weeks due to players taking multiple small actions that have to interact with each other. Where as when you play in person or live those interactions can be easy(er) to deal with in a much more timely manner.
I think Beardsinger was referring to Acromos, specifically in post #31.
Yes, correct. In post 30 I said I found the concept of the game interesting at first but that I really disliked the idea of play by post. Been there done that a couple of times and really didn’t enjoy it, and then in post 31 the OP told me I was wrong for not liking to play by post because he enjoys it. That’s a really strong indication of the Op’s game style and a massive red flag for me 😂 Did I tag the wrong person when I replied? I end up doing that sometimes on my phone. Sorry if I confused you.
To be honest I don’t think this is going to go anywhere. I mean, he had the temerity to tell me (a veteran player and dm in multiple different game systems of around 35 years) that I was wrong in not liking play by post games. I’m pretty sure I am old enough and experienced enough to know what style games I enjoy. That pretty much sums up all you need to know about why his games fell apart.
If that was me I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that some themes and situations do not work well in play by post, from my experience in playing in them. Quick action encounters can stretch out over days and or weeks due to players taking multiple small actions that have to interact with each other. Where as when you play in person or live those interactions can be easy(er) to deal with in a much more timely manner.
I think Beardsinger was referring to Acromos, specifically in post #31.
Yes, correct. In post 30 I said I found the concept of the game interesting at first but that I really disliked the idea of play by post. Been there done that a couple of times and really didn’t enjoy it, and then in post 31 the OP told me I was wrong for not liking to play by post because he enjoys it. That’s a really strong indication of the Op’s game style and a massive red flag for me 😂 Did I tag the wrong person when I replied? I end up doing that sometimes on my phone. Sorry if I confused you.
No problem I just wanted to be sure I did not offend anyone by mistake, Note I think you know what I mean there even my words do not say so as in the past I thought I was providing a reason why the product/game/idea was not successful and the person took great offense to what I said.
My questions were just examples of what I thought of off the top of my head if I were trying to find out why a play by post game I was running was not successful or as successful as I expected it to be.
I am just working with the info you provided and my understanding of that, but it seem very unusual that some players are too busy to provide basic feedback to you. To me this seems very strange, especially since it happened twice. But again it could be just a group of people decided to join your game and thought it was fun to quit in the middle just to mess with someone's game, and the fact it happened twice.
I myself ran an in person game every 3 weeks for 8-12 hours and then supplemented it during the week with posts over the net. I found that I needed to keep my posts fairly short less then a couple of paragraphs as people were often tired after a day at work and I had to repeat somethings that were important to certain players as they did not have the memory that other did. I also found some liked it a lot and some did not like it. So I had to tailor it to each type of poster as well as plan for issues such as I just did not have time to read and get the post in time.
I think most of my comments have been the same as the first time you asked the question and I would have hoped that after running the game a second time you would have a better feedback and or a personal idea as to why it stopped.
I wish you good luck and hope you find out just what is going on.
1. Not every RPG is heroic per se, but in general, that IS why people play DND. I can't help but feel that a setting in which the PCs are doomed to be buried under a landslide of enemies regardless of what they do doesn't speak to that.
2. PBP is... well, it's pretty stinky and bad. Assuming you are not a cave troll, I think you'd have better results running a game in person or via a videocall.
See, this is not taking criticism. Only taking criticism that you agree with is just looking for an echo chamber.
People have given you lots of great suggestions, but you tend to just blow them off. You asked why these games just die, people answered, and you said, "But I've gotten people to sign up for them, so people want to play this!" Maybe your advertising is not fully truthful? Maybe people think they are getting into a different sort of game and leave when they feel railroaded or that they are always going to die or that nothing they do really matters.
I'm going to unsubscribe (as I'm sure many other people have) because it doesn't seem like you want actual ideas on how to improve, you are just looking for strangers on the internet to agree that the fault is the players and that your idea is perfect.
Only taking the criticism you like is no different from only taking the criticism I like. Except I'm unlikely to do the former.
Here's what I think: It's tricky to make this work, and no one is to blame. But I believe it can work, and I'm trying to figure out what to do different. It's not the players at fault, nor is it me at fault. And there have been great suggestions in this thread, and I've responded to those.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
See, this is not taking criticism. Only taking criticism that you agree with is just looking for an echo chamber.
People have given you lots of great suggestions, but you tend to just blow them off. You asked why these games just die, people answered, and you said, "But I've gotten people to sign up for them, so people want to play this!" Maybe your advertising is not fully truthful? Maybe people think they are getting into a different sort of game and leave when they feel railroaded or that they are always going to die or that nothing they do really matters.
I'm going to unsubscribe (as I'm sure many other people have) because it doesn't seem like you want actual ideas on how to improve, you are just looking for strangers on the internet to agree that the fault is the players and that your idea is perfect.
Only taking the criticism you like is no different from only taking the criticism I like. Except I'm unlikely to do the former.
Here's what I think: It's tricky to make this work, and no one is to blame. But I believe it can work, and I'm trying to figure out what to do different. It's not the players at fault, nor is it me at fault. And there have been great suggestions in this thread, and I've responded to those.
One rule of good DMing that I live by. Everything is your fault.
I say this because it's also how you should live. Learn to adapt, overcome, move on, and not be so hard on yourself on mostly trivial things (playing and running D&D is a luxury - regardless of how you important it is in your life). Take blame for all of it - always. Then do better. Always.
One rule of good DMing that I live by. Everything is your fault.
I say this because it's also how you should live. Learn to adapt, overcome, move on, and not be so hard on yourself on mostly trivial things (playing and running D&D is a luxury - regardless of how you important it is in your life). Take blame for all of it - always. Then do better. Always.
I totally agree.
Not that I particularly believe in assigning fault, as a concept. But you're right, if you take in everything that happens as if it was all your fault, you live in the mindset of 'what can I do different'. Rather than the mindset of 'what could everyone else have done different'. And that is undeniably healthy.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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One thing I do not think people have mentioned, is how you run your play by post game? And if there might be things there that can be streamlined or changed to keep the game going. So in general how do you run your play by post game? And what do you expect of the players and yourself?
For example: When I was doing play by post there was a time we were trying to get multiple turns done in day but a number of players could not be at their PC during that time frame so we went back to me issuing a turn 1-2 days in advance of the required post time.
I think Beardsinger was referring to Acromos, specifically in post #31.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
No problem I just wanted to make sure I did not doing anything I did not intend to do or my language was such that it implied something I was not intending it to.
Some other basic questions to ask:
Have you run a game like this before? How long did lit last? How is your game different now then then? How long between turns? How much reading is involved? Do they feel like they are in control of their PC or are actions predetermined. Is the story too fast or slow?
Are you trying to monetize your PbP game? Sending spam to them, requiring them to watch 2 min of adds before each turn or the free time runs out and then they have to play?
Are players in a specific age group? Does the game start at a specific time of the year and ends at a specific time of the year (ie summer then back to school). Do the players simply time out and want a change to something else.
Again I would mention that I have talked to people that had trouble with politics, profanity and other things and that is why they decided to quit. I am not saying it is in your game or that people may or may not have interpreted your posts that way but again I have seen this and things like ti to be a reason for quitting.
I hope that helps but some more basic questions trying to id any possible issue could be helpful. IMHO treat this issue like a business would a failed product or a product that was not as successful then it was supposed to be.
Have you run a game like this before? I've run several pbp games, some long, others stillborn.
How long did lit last? Some have lasted years.
How is your game different now then then? I dunno.
How long between turns? Time between turns is a variable - basically, it depends on player posting rates. I post several times a day, if needed.
How much reading is involved? I sometimes write a lot, but mostly not so much.
Do they feel like they are in control of their PC or are actions predetermined? I basically play open world. That is often a problem, because players have too little direction.
Do they feel like they are in control of their PC or are actions predetermined? I think the story flows at the right pace, but ... see above. Without direction, sometimes the game stalls, and other times if might move too fast.
Are you trying to monetize your PbP game? Don't be absurd. I'm a mediocre GM, no one in their right minds would pay to play with me =)
Are players in a specific age group? I don't know - they're online, I don't know, don't ask, don't care. But maybe I should.
Does the game start at a specific time of the year and ends at a specific time of the year (ie summer then back to school)? No.
Do the players simply time out and want a change to something else? I doubt the players 'time out', but I cannot rule it out.
I agree that certain topics can be problematic, but I don't see them coming up - ever. As a player in pbp, I've seen it a few times. But never in my own.
A failed product, eh? Sure. If I could, I'd do a focus group with present and past users of the product, and look for insights - but since I can't do that, what I'm doing instead is ask the board of directors for their wisdom and advice (that's you guys).
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
I want to join in with the others here to say that this is not as fun as you think it is.
A losing campaign is fine. The issue is that you're asking the players to sacrifice their characters to save a bunch of nameless, faceless NPCs. Over and over and over.
From a DM perspective, this setup is just fine. No matter what, your story continues. But the players are essentially throwing meat into a blender. They don't get to have character arcs (and let's be honest here, "You are free to be a coward and let everyone else die" is not a real choice). They don't get to know their characters. Their story does not continue. They are just extras in yours.
I think if you flipped this, you'd get a lot more player engagement. Losses don't mean the PCs all die, it means you didn't save this group of NPCs, or secure this resource, or whatever. You can certainly still kill PCs, but it should not be written into the campaign design because nobody likes playing that way. Even if they think they might. I've done meat grinder campaigns and they just don't ever last because the players can never truly relate to the world.
Let the PCs survive to save the next group of citizens. This is a roleplaying game. You cannot really sink into your character until you get to know them by playing the game for a while. A game set up to prevent this is killing the primary motivator for the players, and will fail.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Yes, correct. In post 30 I said I found the concept of the game interesting at first but that I really disliked the idea of play by post. Been there done that a couple of times and really didn’t enjoy it, and then in post 31 the OP told me I was wrong for not liking to play by post because he enjoys it. That’s a really strong indication of the Op’s game style and a massive red flag for me 😂 Did I tag the wrong person when I replied? I end up doing that sometimes on my phone. Sorry if I confused you.
No problem I just wanted to be sure I did not offend anyone by mistake, Note I think you know what I mean there even my words do not say so as in the past I thought I was providing a reason why the product/game/idea was not successful and the person took great offense to what I said.
To the OP:
My questions were just examples of what I thought of off the top of my head if I were trying to find out why a play by post game I was running was not successful or as successful as I expected it to be.
I am just working with the info you provided and my understanding of that, but it seem very unusual that some players are too busy to provide basic feedback to you. To me this seems very strange, especially since it happened twice. But again it could be just a group of people decided to join your game and thought it was fun to quit in the middle just to mess with someone's game, and the fact it happened twice.
I myself ran an in person game every 3 weeks for 8-12 hours and then supplemented it during the week with posts over the net. I found that I needed to keep my posts fairly short less then a couple of paragraphs as people were often tired after a day at work and I had to repeat somethings that were important to certain players as they did not have the memory that other did. I also found some liked it a lot and some did not like it. So I had to tailor it to each type of poster as well as plan for issues such as I just did not have time to read and get the post in time.
I think most of my comments have been the same as the first time you asked the question and I would have hoped that after running the game a second time you would have a better feedback and or a personal idea as to why it stopped.
I wish you good luck and hope you find out just what is going on.
OP, I have a couple thoughts.
1. Not every RPG is heroic per se, but in general, that IS why people play DND. I can't help but feel that a setting in which the PCs are doomed to be buried under a landslide of enemies regardless of what they do doesn't speak to that.
2. PBP is... well, it's pretty stinky and bad. Assuming you are not a cave troll, I think you'd have better results running a game in person or via a videocall.
Good luck.
Only taking the criticism you like is no different from only taking the criticism I like. Except I'm unlikely to do the former.
Here's what I think: It's tricky to make this work, and no one is to blame. But I believe it can work, and I'm trying to figure out what to do different. It's not the players at fault, nor is it me at fault. And there have been great suggestions in this thread, and I've responded to those.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
One rule of good DMing that I live by. Everything is your fault.
I say this because it's also how you should live. Learn to adapt, overcome, move on, and not be so hard on yourself on mostly trivial things (playing and running D&D is a luxury - regardless of how you important it is in your life). Take blame for all of it - always. Then do better. Always.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
I totally agree.
Not that I particularly believe in assigning fault, as a concept. But you're right, if you take in everything that happens as if it was all your fault, you live in the mindset of 'what can I do different'. Rather than the mindset of 'what could everyone else have done different'. And that is undeniably healthy.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.