I'm testing the spellpoint variant and I find it great
One amazing thing is how it allows arcane player characters of medium or higher level to casually use magic for mundane stuff and everyday work like you see master wizards etc do in all sorts of adaptations.
Spell slots of 3rd level are so valuable, that burning them for lvl 1 utility spells isn't usually worth it. So players often feel restricted to only using lvl 1 slots for lvl 1 spells when upcasting has no benefits.
With the spellpoint system, you can choose to cast a buttload of level 1 or 2 spells for the cost of a couple of lvl 3 and 4 slots.
This has an interesting effect on multiclassing too. By multiclassing two casters you delay your spell progress but NOT your spell slot/point progress. This is usually an annoying nuisance, since using those new valuable slots for just upcasting is a bit meh.
But with this system, those additional points can be used to effectively fuel lots of lvl 1 and 2 spells of either class. This inspired me to create a multiclass character that focuses on low level utility spells, utilizing this flexibility and stamina to its fullest.
That's very interesting. I haven't used it before, and never considered that effect on the way the game unfolds. I'll have to give it another look, thank you!
I dunno, I've never used the system, but it does seem a bit overpowered since (unles I am misunderstanding how it works) a level 20 Wizard can use it to cast 26 5th level spells in one day and still have a bit of energy left over. But I guess the system does have some cool benefits though.
Don’t cantrips already allow for casual use of mundane magic? Between prestidigitation and mage hand seems like you cover most everything. Throw in a ritual cast of unseen servant, and you’ve not used any spell slots, but done all your chores magically. Spell points are a cool mechanic and all, and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of them, but I’m not sure they are required to make this happen.
I think it mostly comes down to different styles of play. I saw another thread recently that proposed all spells should be able to be cast as rituals because they felt slots only mattered for combat. That person is definitely playing a different kind of game than you or I run. :)
I guess it depends a lot of how many combats you run, how you design non-combat challenges, how much exploration and social situations you have, what you want the feel of magic to be like in your game, etc.
I can see the value for some games. I do appreciate some insight into a mechanic I haven't tried. The unforseen benefits and consequences. For homebrewing things I would like in my own style game.
I dunno, I've never used the system, but it does seem a bit overpowered since (unles I am misunderstanding how it works) a level 20 Wizard can use it to cast 26 5th level spells in one day and still have a bit of energy left over. But I guess the system does have some cool benefits though.
I haven't checked your maths, but it wouldn't be massively overpowered, I don't think. For example, yes, maybe your L20 Wizard can cast 26th 5th level spells...but then can't cast Wish or do 40d6 damage per creature to an entire army in a single Action via Meteor Swarm...in an encounter balanced for a character that is capable of doing precisely that.
Yes, it would increase power (adding flexibility always at least maintains power and often adds to it), but the ability to cast spells non-stop comes with a hefty price.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
A group I have played with uses the SP system and loves it as it provides a lot of versatility. I do not think they use the exact rules as listed in the book but have some other options.
When looking over their system I did have a question above high level use of it but I do not remember the exact details right now.
I don't think this is a problem. Some lvl 20 characters are so broken and god-like by default that it's pretty difficult to create a significant shift in balance. The stuff you can do with lvl 9 spells and lvl 20 abilities is wild.
By casting 26 level 5 spells, you need to take 26 turns opposed to causing world-altering effects with a single lvl 9 spell. And you not only sacrifice your level 9 slot, but your lvl 8, 7, 6 spells too. That's a hefty price, considering you kinda mess up your action economy too.
But if you don't expect a grand battle, then yeah, it does give you amazing flexibility. 😄
I would just wish it was adopted into dndbeyond in a proper way.
Right now we have made some homebrew shenanigans, it is working but not really well.
It would be far better if it was aopted into dndbeyond, so that when I click the cast button, it would deduct the right amount of spellpoints from my pool.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm testing the spellpoint variant and I find it great
One amazing thing is how it allows arcane player characters of medium or higher level to casually use magic for mundane stuff and everyday work like you see master wizards etc do in all sorts of adaptations.
Spell slots of 3rd level are so valuable, that burning them for lvl 1 utility spells isn't usually worth it. So players often feel restricted to only using lvl 1 slots for lvl 1 spells when upcasting has no benefits.
With the spellpoint system, you can choose to cast a buttload of level 1 or 2 spells for the cost of a couple of lvl 3 and 4 slots.
This has an interesting effect on multiclassing too. By multiclassing two casters you delay your spell progress but NOT your spell slot/point progress. This is usually an annoying nuisance, since using those new valuable slots for just upcasting is a bit meh.
But with this system, those additional points can be used to effectively fuel lots of lvl 1 and 2 spells of either class. This inspired me to create a multiclass character that focuses on low level utility spells, utilizing this flexibility and stamina to its fullest.
Finland GMT/UTC +2
That's very interesting. I haven't used it before, and never considered that effect on the way the game unfolds. I'll have to give it another look, thank you!
I dunno, I've never used the system, but it does seem a bit overpowered since (unles I am misunderstanding how it works) a level 20 Wizard can use it to cast 26 5th level spells in one day and still have a bit of energy left over. But I guess the system does have some cool benefits though.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Don’t cantrips already allow for casual use of mundane magic? Between prestidigitation and mage hand seems like you cover most everything. Throw in a ritual cast of unseen servant, and you’ve not used any spell slots, but done all your chores magically.
Spell points are a cool mechanic and all, and I wouldn’t mind seeing more of them, but I’m not sure they are required to make this happen.
I think it mostly comes down to different styles of play. I saw another thread recently that proposed all spells should be able to be cast as rituals because they felt slots only mattered for combat. That person is definitely playing a different kind of game than you or I run. :)
I guess it depends a lot of how many combats you run, how you design non-combat challenges, how much exploration and social situations you have, what you want the feel of magic to be like in your game, etc.
I can see the value for some games. I do appreciate some insight into a mechanic I haven't tried. The unforseen benefits and consequences. For homebrewing things I would like in my own style game.
I haven't checked your maths, but it wouldn't be massively overpowered, I don't think. For example, yes, maybe your L20 Wizard can cast 26th 5th level spells...but then can't cast Wish or do 40d6 damage per creature to an entire army in a single Action via Meteor Swarm...in an encounter balanced for a character that is capable of doing precisely that.
Yes, it would increase power (adding flexibility always at least maintains power and often adds to it), but the ability to cast spells non-stop comes with a hefty price.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
A group I have played with uses the SP system and loves it as it provides a lot of versatility. I do not think they use the exact rules as listed in the book but have some other options.
When looking over their system I did have a question above high level use of it but I do not remember the exact details right now.
I have been a proponent that spell points should be the default for Sorcerers, it really fixes the class.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I don't think this is a problem. Some lvl 20 characters are so broken and god-like by default that it's pretty difficult to create a significant shift in balance. The stuff you can do with lvl 9 spells and lvl 20 abilities is wild.
By casting 26 level 5 spells, you need to take 26 turns opposed to causing world-altering effects with a single lvl 9 spell. And you not only sacrifice your level 9 slot, but your lvl 8, 7, 6 spells too. That's a hefty price, considering you kinda mess up your action economy too.
But if you don't expect a grand battle, then yeah, it does give you amazing flexibility. 😄
Finland GMT/UTC +2
I would just wish it was adopted into dndbeyond in a proper way.
Right now we have made some homebrew shenanigans, it is working but not really well.
It would be far better if it was aopted into dndbeyond, so that when I click the cast button, it would deduct the right amount of spellpoints from my pool.