That being said, hyenas (probably) won't bite you because you aren't listening to them, so you don't have that much of a reason to hear what they have to say about D&D. But take my account with a MASSIVE grain of salt, because I'm not really qualified or a professional on this.
I have it on good authority that hyenas are VERY bitey.
Again Eagleshield is right on the money. For various reasons DND has had a unique secure cultural and player scale unlike just about every other TTRPG going back many years. The reality is that if DND collapses for the time being its not going to be a one for one transfer into another TTRPG theres going to be a ton of folks all over the place who are fundamentally displaced socially creatively and community-wise and that will only serve to harm everyone from players to creatives alike on an insane scale. Which kind of goes back to my main question about the goal of this campaign-obviously we need to push to get this OGL stuff ironed out to the best of our ability but we shouldn't arbitrarily sacrifice DND for the sake of a pyrrhic“victory“ and we need to be focusing on calling out and shutting down toxicity and also focus on cultivating the DND communities around us so that way when the OGL stuff is hopefully ironed out in the future DND will be better than ever.
I have it on good authority that hyenas are VERY bitey.
I don't disagree there. That being said, I doubt the reason a hyena would bite you is because they were upset that you didn't listen to them screaming about how a legal contract for an RPG might change.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
Yeah, it really is sad because certain community members are being vilified for advocating for patience and logic over panicking. I've lost track of the names I've been called, but people on these normally kind + respectful forums have called me a conspiracy theorist, a reality denier, and a "bigot" for not attacking Wizards over how terrible and evil they are. As I write this post, a comment just popped up accusing someone of being "daft", and it is another hurtful and disturbing remark that contributes to a problematic new trend of a lack of civility.
---
Also, I did a bit of research and it appears convoluted on whether people should listen to hyenas. According to some people on StackExchange, you should avoid + ignore wild dogs. Hyenas are sort of like wild dogs, so things might be similar in encounters with them. That being said, hyenas (probably) won't bite you because you aren't listening to them, so you don't have that much of a reason to hear what they have to say about D&D. But take my account with a MASSIVE grain of salt, because I'm not really qualified or a professional on this.
It is fair for me to admit that I was the author of the daft post. But my response is about characterization. You characterize the responses as "advocating for patience and logic over panicking". But that's not what they are saying. The lack of civility is specific and intended. WotC has shown a callous disregard for the truth, any sort of open and transparent activity, and any desire to maintain existing norms. They could easily twirl their handlebar moustaches and not get any more cartoon villain in their approach. All they need is to find out Paizo owns Dalmatian puppies.
In that environment, does the polite person get a good result?
"Here here, my good fellow, would you mind not slaughtering that puppy?"
"oh, terribly sorry, I already murdered the puppy. It's all a misunderstanding. I was planning all along to ask the community what it thought and take feedback to see if I should have killed it. So now that you've objected, um... sorry. But I'm still taking the pelt."
My point is simple. We are not in a terrified panic. We are not illogical. But we are angry. And we are not going to be quiet so everyone can go back to whatever inane thing that might be happening while WotC destroys the community. If you want to shill for them, prepare for it to stay loud. If you want to say "can't we all just get along?" you're likely to have some unpleasant things said. If you believe that villains are just misunderstood heroes, you can expect to face a lot of unpleasant remarks. Or you can simply get out of the way. Don't read it. Let the actual misbehaving company face the consequences of their actions and no one will bother you.
Wizards is deflecting attention away from their efforts to deauthorize the OGL 1.0a, now that they have softened a few of the most visible but less important aspects of their new closed 3rd-party content license. They are making headway, and we need to stay focused.
Simply not revoking the OGL 1.0a is not sufficient. The D&D community will not be safe until Wizards releases an updated OGL, adding an irrevocability clause and removing the reference to 'authorized versions' from Section 9.
The first wave of conciliation is forming among fans who feel like their concerns have been addressed and don’t want to believe that Wizards is trying to hurt people. But Wizards’ intentions don’t matter. Wizards could be deauthorizing the OGL 1.0a because they genuinely believe it is in the best interest of the community and industry, and it would still be wrong and destructive.
Respectfully decline to be baited into arguments with Wizards' defenders about whether or not we are right to be offended by the company's behavior. They are a distraction.
All forms of advocacy and resistance are valid as long as D&D Beyond's rules are honored. No successful sales exec in the history of the world has ever said, "Oh, those people are a lost cause." A consumer is either someone who bought the last product and is to be retained, or someone who did not and is to be courted. Everyone is a potential customer; indignation is just passion waiting to be redirected. Show Wizards your indignation.
Protecting the D&D community requires us to stay focused on Wizards’ actions, not their attitudes. Deauthorizing the OGL 1.0a is indefensible, no matter their regrets or excuses.
We have Advantage. Keep making those Charisma (Persuasion) checks, hyenas.
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J Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Yeah, it really is sad because certain community members are being vilified for advocating for patience and logic over panicking. I've lost track of the names I've been called, but people on these normally kind + respectful forums have called me a conspiracy theorist...
Is "conspiracy theorist" an insult? And how does proposing that there is a conspiracy going on mean you're "advocating for patience and logic"?
What part of "conspiracy theorist" is doing the "be vilified"?
I think I remember seeing that post then, where you propose that a cabal of shadowy figures came together in secret to work out a plan to tarnish WOTC reputation. And this is all their master plan. It was when the leaked documents hadn't really been verified yet. Right?
Idk mate. If that's not a conspiracy theory idk what is.
I agree we should aim to remain civil. But its not a issue to point out obvious behavior.
(Editted because I accidentally used some archaic problematic wording.)
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Nobody listens to people defending a company that seems to have lied and gaslight its community in its most recent statement.
I am not sure how you looked at a post that literally is advising folks on how best to attack Wizards in the most effective manner and decided “yeah, that’s what defending a company looks like.”
Frankly, as far as corporate apologies go, this was a good one - it addressed the concerns, promised action items, and specifically said sorry. That - particularly actual action items requested by players - is better than the usual corporate nonsense response.
Frankly, as far as corporate apologies go, this was a good one - it addressed the concerns, promised action items, and specifically said sorry. That - particularly actual action items requested by players - is better than the usual corporate nonsense response.
Unfortunately, that same apology was also rife with half-truths, bald-faced lies, and CEO-speak. It was essentially meaningless.
Frankly, as far as corporate apologies go, this was a good one - it addressed the concerns, promised action items, and specifically said sorry. That - particularly actual action items requested by players - is better than the usual corporate nonsense response.
Unfortunately, that same apology was also rife with half-truths, bald-faced lies, and CEO-speak. It was essentially meaningless.
It was decidedly not meaningless. Action items promised by a corporation in response to a PR disaster have weight - you can always win back the adults who were justifiably angry but not vitriolic by promising change and delivering thereon, but you will lose them forever if you backstab them.
And that’s the irony of the “this promise means nothing” crowd—they both believe Hasbro is a greedy, profit driven company, and believe that Hasbro will do the one thing that would utterly destroy profits. Corporate greed is your ally right now - it is the force that takes their words and gives them weight and meaning.
Frankly, as far as corporate apologies go, this was a good one - it addressed the concerns, promised action items, and specifically said sorry. That - particularly actual action items requested by players - is better than the usual corporate nonsense response.
Unfortunately, that same apology was also rife with half-truths, bald-faced lies, and CEO-speak. It was essentially meaningless.
It was decidedly not meaningless. Action items promised by a corporation in response to a PR disaster have weight - you can always win back the adults who were justifiably angry but not vitriolic by promising change and delivering thereon, but you will lose them forever if you backstab them.
And that’s the irony of the “this promise means nothing” crowd—they both believe Hasbro is a greedy, profit driven company, and believe that Hasbro will do the one thing that would utterly destroy profits. Corporate greed is your ally right now - it is the force that takes their words and gives them weight and meaning.
PR statements are not meaningless. But they are not on equal footing with contracts made and offered, such as licenses. There is a four corners doctrine. And it isn't even a good statement if we'd take it at face value. And how could we as it starts with obvious lies? It was not a draft. It was sent out with contracts to be signed, not with drafts for 1:1 individual licenses, but as a standard 1:many license.
I do not hate big corporations. I do not hate investment. I love the game, i love the creative work in there and all the people who contributed to make us this great products, both DND itself and dnd beyond.
I spent hundreds of dollars for a good reason: I enjoy it and because of that, the people behind all this great stuff deserve to earn something for it.
I also like investment and big corporations. Give the people who can bring me enjoyment the dollars they need to do big stuff. I want movies, i want merch, i want creative workers not having problems feeding their families and i want that big AAA stamp on the products i cherish. Thats not the problem.
I want to keep what DND is right now and for that I fight. These last bad decisions are the decisions of misinformed corporate shills not playing DND, maybe not even playing any kind of thing. This is not their world and they talk exactly one language: Money.
And i tell them in their language: I dislike what you are trying to do and i am not your wallet if you go with that. If they truly back up and let the people who can do this job DO THEIR JOB, i tell them in their language that they are a good boy, but only then. Unfortunately this suits sometimes are not as smart as they believe they are and take good people with them to the ground. I hope that doesn't happen.
And this hope lets me still be here. If I would not have that hope or i won't care anymore, i absolutely agree with the OP i should leave.
So should you if you are just here to say that wotc / dnd should die imho.
Frankly, as far as corporate apologies go, this was a good one - it addressed the concerns, promised action items, and specifically said sorry. That - particularly actual action items requested by players - is better than the usual corporate nonsense response.
Unfortunately, that same apology was also rife with half-truths, bald-faced lies, and CEO-speak. It was essentially meaningless.
It was decidedly not meaningless. Action items promised by a corporation in response to a PR disaster have weight - you can always win back the adults who were justifiably angry but not vitriolic by promising change and delivering thereon, but you will lose them forever if you backstab them.
And that’s the irony of the “this promise means nothing” crowd—they both believe Hasbro is a greedy, profit driven company, and believe that Hasbro will do the one thing that would utterly destroy profits. Corporate greed is your ally right now - it is the force that takes their words and gives them weight and meaning.
Hey, imho... Or that responce was so arrogant andf pathetic the larger community became angry, and now has no trust of WoTC.
This might be why all of them, all, from Piaso to Kobald Press, Mage Hand, etc., are announcing their own, open, rules for the community. And leaving. Perhaps the damage is done?
Waiting for Critical Role to go too. That will be a big deal. Right?
I have seen people on Facebook say the objective is to kill WotC. I have seen them say you can't play D&D ever again unless you want WotC to succeed because even if you don't buy anything ever again WotC wins because their game is being played and talked about. I have seen people being called stupid and on the side of evil if they don't switch to Pathfinder RIGHT NOW! So yes, for a part of the fanbase the objective very much is to burn WotC to the ground and D&D with it. All the while, they completely forget that the entire mess was BECAUSE OF THE THIRD PARTY CREATORS OF 5E! The actual players of D&D were only going to be affected once third party creators close their doors due to not being able to pay revenue and other unfair requests. Well guess what, those 3rd party creators won't have to pay revenue, but if we listen to the folks with torches and pitchforks THEY WON'T SELL A DAMN THING ANYWAY! ORC is months or years away, it took Paizo a year and a half to publish Pathfinder and all they did was slap some paint on 3.5. A new system by a dozen companies will take at least that long to create, so 3PP folk are out of a job if D&D goes under (it won't, but many really want it to).
You seem to think that a company like Green Ronin or Kobold Press, or MCDM, or... (you get the idea) can ONLY create 5e products. Are you daft? They can create for any of the plethora of systems that are already out there. They created for 5e because 5e had the largest player base. That made it the biggest market. If D&D or WotC dried up and blew away in the wind, there would simply be a lot of new products for other games. So we are arguing for Darwin. Let WotC show that they are smart enough to adapt to the environment or let WotC shrivel up and die so someone or something more able to live in this environment can thrive.
Personally, I don't care wither way. D&D was convenient because so many people had seen it, knew someone that played, or actually knew the system. Want to gather a game group? It's very easy to find D&D players. But let's be honest, the system would never be called elegant. It started as a kit bash of miniature war game rules to add weird special units like wizards. It grew to become a survival horror style game with deep dungeons of total darkness with numerous traps and monsters where only those clever and greedy enough to plunder its treasures could thrive. Then it morphed into a story telling system with fiction like Dragonlance and rules trying to adapt to the new approach. Then they tried to reinvent it as a video game type system of wargaming with 4e. That wasn't as popular, so they course corrected to be more of a light-ish weight story telling system with 5e. After all of that, why do we still have 3-18 attributes? Why can you buy a pole as equipment? Because they keep trying to be at least somewhat compatible with what came before. The pole was for finding traps way back when it was survival horror. All of this is because D&D was built in layers and is trying to be backward compatible.
So, D&D isn't necessarily the cleanest of most elegant system. It has relics all scattered through it from those old iterations. So why has it been so popular? Because there is so much material and exposure (due to the third party community) that most people who might be interested in playing have some familiarity. But it's not because D&D is essential or the best or somehow a basis for all other RPGs. And once D&D is not seen as safe to produce for, some other system will receive all of those benefits, perhaps supplanting D&D. It will all work out for the user community, whether WotC learns and changes their approach, or if they burn to the ground.
Not a single RPG out there has a fraction of the D&D playerbase. Not a single RPG will allow 3PP to survive till ORC comes other than D&D. The raging fans are throwing 3PP under the bus.
??? The third parties have all come out and said they're done with WotC. That's why they're creating thier own gaming license. This whole argument has become moot. The OGL is dead. They won't publish under 2.0 and they can't publish under 1.0a so what exactly are you suggesting?? The ORC will be done in no time. They're not trying to write a 9,000 word document. It'll be little more than a revision of 1.0.
Is "conspiracy theorist" an insult? And how does proposing that there is a conspiracy going on mean you're "advocating for patience and logic"?
What part of "conspiracy theorist" is doing the "be vilified"?
I think I remember seeing that post then, where you propose that a cabal of shadowy figures came together in secret to work out a plan to tarnish WOTC reputation. And this is all their master plan. It was when the leaked documents hadn't really been verified yet. Right?
I never talked about a cabal of shadowy figures. As I explained to you directly several times, I never pretended that the concerns over Open Game License 1.1 were a conspiracy. My point was that a random new website by anonymous publishers talking about information anyone could falsify might not be fully trustworthy. Especially when those "publishers" could just be one malicious person who invented a fake legal document and fit it into other rumors to make it look like corroborating evidence when it really wasn't.
If you seriously believe that the belief that there might be at least one malicious person on the internet is a "conspiracy theory", then I honestly don't know what to say. Not every website on the internet is 100% trustworthy. That isn't a conspiracy, that's just facts.
Also, being called a conspiracy theorist is a VERY offensive insult where I live. Patience and logic is not a conspiracy, and saying that is vilifying people. Not only that, but you've ignored all the other things people have called me to focus on one specific comment. If you have been following threads such as this, then it is baffling that you apparently haven't seen any comments that were way worse than this.
Hm. People want me to moderate my words, avoid incendiary or evocative language? They want me to stop using simile or comparison, to speak as mildly as I can with maximum care taken to sound professional, empathetic, and detached from the situation?
Hmm. People want me to use Corpospeak. How curious, given how much people profess to despise Corpospeak from Wizards.
How about you try just one thing to improve your communication skills: look up the definition of simianization. In the climate of today's discourse, it is ill advised to compare people to animals, or baboons, or clowns. Those are dehumanizing insults. Not "corpospeak," that's just how mature adults hold a productive conversation. Light and hope.
Frankly, as far as corporate apologies go, this was a good one - it addressed the concerns, promised action items, and specifically said sorry. That - particularly actual action items requested by players - is better than the usual corporate nonsense response.
Unfortunately, that same apology was also rife with half-truths, bald-faced lies, and CEO-speak. It was essentially meaningless.
It was decidedly not meaningless. Action items promised by a corporation in response to a PR disaster have weight - you can always win back the adults who were justifiably angry but not vitriolic by promising change and delivering thereon, but you will lose them forever if you backstab them.
And that’s the irony of the “this promise means nothing” crowd—they both believe Hasbro is a greedy, profit driven company, and believe that Hasbro will do the one thing that would utterly destroy profits. Corporate greed is your ally right now - it is the force that takes their words and gives them weight and meaning.
Caerwyn, Hasbro/WOTC already has done the one thing that would utterly destroy their profits. None of us have to believe it- it's happened. Past tense. We, and particularly the 3rd-party entities, have already been backstabbed. WOTC tried to steal the cookie jar under the cover of darkness and they were *caught.*
So, no. Their promises mean nothing. Their open letter the other day means nothing. What they called a draft was not a draft. They did not want a dialogue.
The only thing that matters now, the ONLY thing, are their actions going forward. We do agree that their greed is our ally. Publicly traded corporations *hate* hemorrhaging money and customers the way WOTC is right now. The proof, however, will be in what they eventually do to resolve this. Not what they say, and not what they promise. Until then, PR band-aids are irrelevant.
I have seen people on Facebook say the objective is to kill WotC. I have seen them say you can't play D&D ever again unless you want WotC to succeed because even if you don't buy anything ever again WotC wins because their game is being played and talked about. I have seen people being called stupid and on the side of evil if they don't switch to Pathfinder RIGHT NOW! So yes, for a part of the fanbase the objective very much is to burn WotC to the ground and D&D with it. All the while, they completely forget that the entire mess was BECAUSE OF THE THIRD PARTY CREATORS OF 5E! The actual players of D&D were only going to be affected once third party creators close their doors due to not being able to pay revenue and other unfair requests. Well guess what, those 3rd party creators won't have to pay revenue, but if we listen to the folks with torches and pitchforks THEY WON'T SELL A DAMN THING ANYWAY! ORC is months or years away, it took Paizo a year and a half to publish Pathfinder and all they did was slap some paint on 3.5. A new system by a dozen companies will take at least that long to create, so 3PP folk are out of a job if D&D goes under (it won't, but many really want it to).
You seem to think that a company like Green Ronin or Kobold Press, or MCDM, or... (you get the idea) can ONLY create 5e products. Are you daft? They can create for any of the plethora of systems that are already out there. They created for 5e because 5e had the largest player base. That made it the biggest market. If D&D or WotC dried up and blew away in the wind, there would simply be a lot of new products for other games. So we are arguing for Darwin. Let WotC show that they are smart enough to adapt to the environment or let WotC shrivel up and die so someone or something more able to live in this environment can thrive.
Personally, I don't care wither way. D&D was convenient because so many people had seen it, knew someone that played, or actually knew the system. Want to gather a game group? It's very easy to find D&D players. But let's be honest, the system would never be called elegant. It started as a kit bash of miniature war game rules to add weird special units like wizards. It grew to become a survival horror style game with deep dungeons of total darkness with numerous traps and monsters where only those clever and greedy enough to plunder its treasures could thrive. Then it morphed into a story telling system with fiction like Dragonlance and rules trying to adapt to the new approach. Then they tried to reinvent it as a video game type system of wargaming with 4e. That wasn't as popular, so they course corrected to be more of a light-ish weight story telling system with 5e. After all of that, why do we still have 3-18 attributes? Why can you buy a pole as equipment? Because they keep trying to be at least somewhat compatible with what came before. The pole was for finding traps way back when it was survival horror. All of this is because D&D was built in layers and is trying to be backward compatible.
So, D&D isn't necessarily the cleanest of most elegant system. It has relics all scattered through it from those old iterations. So why has it been so popular? Because there is so much material and exposure (due to the third party community) that most people who might be interested in playing have some familiarity. But it's not because D&D is essential or the best or somehow a basis for all other RPGs. And once D&D is not seen as safe to produce for, some other system will receive all of those benefits, perhaps supplanting D&D. It will all work out for the user community, whether WotC learns and changes their approach, or if they burn to the ground.
Not a single RPG out there has a fraction of the D&D playerbase. Not a single RPG will allow 3PP to survive till ORC comes other than D&D. The raging fans are throwing 3PP under the bus.
??? The third parties have all come out and said they're done with WotC. That's why they're creating thier own gaming license. This whole argument has become moot. The OGL is dead. They won't publish under 2.0 and they can't publish under 1.0a so what exactly are you suggesting?? The ORC will be done in no time. They're not trying to write a 9,000 word document. It'll be little more than a revision of 1.0.
They don't have a game attached to that licence. They can't make a revision of what is not theirs to revise.
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DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
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It was nuts! Straight annihilation results for crits and fumbles!
I have it on good authority that hyenas are VERY bitey.
But sir, the odds of rolling a 96 or higher five times in a row is approximately 3,720 to 1!
Edit: I honestly can't believe nobody got this reference
Again Eagleshield is right on the money. For various reasons DND has had a unique secure cultural and player scale unlike just about every other TTRPG going back many years. The reality is that if DND collapses for the time being its not going to be a one for one transfer into another TTRPG theres going to be a ton of folks all over the place who are fundamentally displaced socially creatively and community-wise and that will only serve to harm everyone from players to creatives alike on an insane scale. Which kind of goes back to my main question about the goal of this campaign-obviously we need to push to get this OGL stuff ironed out to the best of our ability but we shouldn't arbitrarily sacrifice DND for the sake of a pyrrhic“victory“ and we need to be focusing on calling out and shutting down toxicity and also focus on cultivating the DND communities around us so that way when the OGL stuff is hopefully ironed out in the future DND will be better than ever.
I don't disagree there. That being said, I doubt the reason a hyena would bite you is because they were upset that you didn't listen to them screaming about how a legal contract for an RPG might change.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.I mean, I hear hyenas, I'm going to listen to them.
It is fair for me to admit that I was the author of the daft post. But my response is about characterization. You characterize the responses as "advocating for patience and logic over panicking". But that's not what they are saying. The lack of civility is specific and intended. WotC has shown a callous disregard for the truth, any sort of open and transparent activity, and any desire to maintain existing norms. They could easily twirl their handlebar moustaches and not get any more cartoon villain in their approach. All they need is to find out Paizo owns Dalmatian puppies.
In that environment, does the polite person get a good result?
"Here here, my good fellow, would you mind not slaughtering that puppy?"
"oh, terribly sorry, I already murdered the puppy. It's all a misunderstanding. I was planning all along to ask the community what it thought and take feedback to see if I should have killed it. So now that you've objected, um... sorry. But I'm still taking the pelt."
My point is simple. We are not in a terrified panic. We are not illogical. But we are angry. And we are not going to be quiet so everyone can go back to whatever inane thing that might be happening while WotC destroys the community. If you want to shill for them, prepare for it to stay loud. If you want to say "can't we all just get along?" you're likely to have some unpleasant things said. If you believe that villains are just misunderstood heroes, you can expect to face a lot of unpleasant remarks. Or you can simply get out of the way. Don't read it. Let the actual misbehaving company face the consequences of their actions and no one will bother you.
Wizards is deflecting attention away from their efforts to deauthorize the OGL 1.0a, now that they have softened a few of the most visible but less important aspects of their new closed 3rd-party content license. They are making headway, and we need to stay focused.
Simply not revoking the OGL 1.0a is not sufficient. The D&D community will not be safe until Wizards releases an updated OGL, adding an irrevocability clause and removing the reference to 'authorized versions' from Section 9.
The first wave of conciliation is forming among fans who feel like their concerns have been addressed and don’t want to believe that Wizards is trying to hurt people. But Wizards’ intentions don’t matter. Wizards could be deauthorizing the OGL 1.0a because they genuinely believe it is in the best interest of the community and industry, and it would still be wrong and destructive.
Respectfully decline to be baited into arguments with Wizards' defenders about whether or not we are right to be offended by the company's behavior. They are a distraction.
All forms of advocacy and resistance are valid as long as D&D Beyond's rules are honored. No successful sales exec in the history of the world has ever said, "Oh, those people are a lost cause." A consumer is either someone who bought the last product and is to be retained, or someone who did not and is to be courted. Everyone is a potential customer; indignation is just passion waiting to be redirected. Show Wizards your indignation.
Protecting the D&D community requires us to stay focused on Wizards’ actions, not their attitudes. Deauthorizing the OGL 1.0a is indefensible, no matter their regrets or excuses.
We have Advantage. Keep making those Charisma (Persuasion) checks, hyenas.
J
Great Wyrm Moonstone Dungeon Master
The time of the ORC has come. No OGL without irrevocability; no OGL with 'authorized version' language. #openDND
Practice, practice, practice • Respect the rules; don't memorize them • Be merciless, not cruel • Don't let the dice run the game for you
Is "conspiracy theorist" an insult? And how does proposing that there is a conspiracy going on mean you're "advocating for patience and logic"?
What part of "conspiracy theorist" is doing the "be vilified"?
I think I remember seeing that post then, where you propose that a cabal of shadowy figures came together in secret to work out a plan to tarnish WOTC reputation. And this is all their master plan. It was when the leaked documents hadn't really been verified yet. Right?
Idk mate. If that's not a conspiracy theory idk what is.
I agree we should aim to remain civil. But its not a issue to point out obvious behavior.
(Editted because I accidentally used some archaic problematic wording.)
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I am not sure how you looked at a post that literally is advising folks on how best to attack Wizards in the most effective manner and decided “yeah, that’s what defending a company looks like.”
Frankly, as far as corporate apologies go, this was a good one - it addressed the concerns, promised action items, and specifically said sorry. That - particularly actual action items requested by players - is better than the usual corporate nonsense response.
Unfortunately, that same apology was also rife with half-truths, bald-faced lies, and CEO-speak. It was essentially meaningless.
It was decidedly not meaningless. Action items promised by a corporation in response to a PR disaster have weight - you can always win back the adults who were justifiably angry but not vitriolic by promising change and delivering thereon, but you will lose them forever if you backstab them.
And that’s the irony of the “this promise means nothing” crowd—they both believe Hasbro is a greedy, profit driven company, and believe that Hasbro will do the one thing that would utterly destroy profits. Corporate greed is your ally right now - it is the force that takes their words and gives them weight and meaning.
PR statements are not meaningless. But they are not on equal footing with contracts made and offered, such as licenses. There is a four corners doctrine. And it isn't even a good statement if we'd take it at face value. And how could we as it starts with obvious lies? It was not a draft. It was sent out with contracts to be signed, not with drafts for 1:1 individual licenses, but as a standard 1:many license.
I do not hate big corporations. I do not hate investment. I love the game, i love the creative work in there and all the people who contributed to make us this great products, both DND itself and dnd beyond.
I spent hundreds of dollars for a good reason: I enjoy it and because of that, the people behind all this great stuff deserve to earn something for it.
I also like investment and big corporations. Give the people who can bring me enjoyment the dollars they need to do big stuff. I want movies, i want merch, i want creative workers not having problems feeding their families and i want that big AAA stamp on the products i cherish. Thats not the problem.
I want to keep what DND is right now and for that I fight. These last bad decisions are the decisions of misinformed corporate shills not playing DND, maybe not even playing any kind of thing. This is not their world and they talk exactly one language: Money.
And i tell them in their language: I dislike what you are trying to do and i am not your wallet if you go with that.
If they truly back up and let the people who can do this job DO THEIR JOB, i tell them in their language that they are a good boy, but only then. Unfortunately this suits sometimes are not as smart as they believe they are and take good people with them to the ground. I hope that doesn't happen.
And this hope lets me still be here. If I would not have that hope or i won't care anymore, i absolutely agree with the OP i should leave.
So should you if you are just here to say that wotc / dnd should die imho.
Hey, imho... Or that responce was so arrogant andf pathetic the larger community became angry, and now has no trust of WoTC.
This might be why all of them, all, from Piaso to Kobald Press, Mage Hand, etc., are announcing their own, open, rules for the community. And leaving. Perhaps the damage is done?
Waiting for Critical Role to go too. That will be a big deal. Right?
??? The third parties have all come out and said they're done with WotC. That's why they're creating thier own gaming license. This whole argument has become moot. The OGL is dead. They won't publish under 2.0 and they can't publish under 1.0a so what exactly are you suggesting?? The ORC will be done in no time. They're not trying to write a 9,000 word document. It'll be little more than a revision of 1.0.
I never talked about a cabal of shadowy figures. As I explained to you directly several times, I never pretended that the concerns over Open Game License 1.1 were a conspiracy. My point was that a random new website by anonymous publishers talking about information anyone could falsify might not be fully trustworthy. Especially when those "publishers" could just be one malicious person who invented a fake legal document and fit it into other rumors to make it look like corroborating evidence when it really wasn't.
If you seriously believe that the belief that there might be at least one malicious person on the internet is a "conspiracy theory", then I honestly don't know what to say. Not every website on the internet is 100% trustworthy. That isn't a conspiracy, that's just facts.
Also, being called a conspiracy theorist is a VERY offensive insult where I live. Patience and logic is not a conspiracy, and saying that is vilifying people. Not only that, but you've ignored all the other things people have called me to focus on one specific comment. If you have been following threads such as this, then it is baffling that you apparently haven't seen any comments that were way worse than this.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.How about you try just one thing to improve your communication skills: look up the definition of simianization.
In the climate of today's discourse, it is ill advised to compare people to animals, or baboons, or clowns. Those are dehumanizing insults.
Not "corpospeak," that's just how mature adults hold a productive conversation. Light and hope.
Caerwyn, Hasbro/WOTC already has done the one thing that would utterly destroy their profits. None of us have to believe it- it's happened. Past tense. We, and particularly the 3rd-party entities, have already been backstabbed. WOTC tried to steal the cookie jar under the cover of darkness and they were *caught.*
So, no. Their promises mean nothing. Their open letter the other day means nothing. What they called a draft was not a draft. They did not want a dialogue.
The only thing that matters now, the ONLY thing, are their actions going forward. We do agree that their greed is our ally. Publicly traded corporations *hate* hemorrhaging money and customers the way WOTC is right now. The proof, however, will be in what they eventually do to resolve this. Not what they say, and not what they promise. Until then, PR band-aids are irrelevant.
They don't have a game attached to that licence. They can't make a revision of what is not theirs to revise.
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.