So we have this campaign of 5 people... A Barbarian, Rune Fighter, Sorlock, Wizard, and Twilight Domain Cleric. We normally don't add a timer to turns and I've never played in a campaign that has, however... As we go up in levels (12th) the turns are taking agonizingly long as mostly the casters take longer to figure out what spells work in the current combat situation. As the Barbarian my turns literally takes 2 minutes if that for "I swing my axe"... "I swing my axe again"... Ok I'm done. The casters (sorlock) on the other hand take alot longer per turn and its starting to drag the game down and affect progression.
What do ya'll think of timed turns for combat? Anyone do it? What say you?
I don't use turn timer when i DM nor have i ever played a game where a DM did.
If i had a player slowing the game pace every turn by taking too much time to decide what to do i'd definitely talk to the player and suggest to start figuring what to do next turn when the creature in initiative before him or her is taking turn. If it's a matetr of dice rolling etc i'd suggest rolling both attack and damage dice altogheter to speed up play. In last resort, i'd treat analysis-paralysis syndrome with the Dogge action and move on to next turn order,
I too have sometimes suffered at the hands of this situation. I have talked to my problem players because it's not all of them. Casters tend to be the ones who have the most trouble. However, I have never done a time. One suggestion I saw online was to use the timer and if they can't figure it out by the end of time you declare they take the defensive action and move to the next player. Most people say it takes no more than 2 times of this and the delay troubles disappear.
I suppose other options are to impose new issues in combat, like (not to pick on casters BUT) the spell the cast on the target is less effective, doing less damage or easier to save against like the target was prepared for it. Or the fighter went to strike an enemy and they do less damage or find they get struck at one extra time that round. Or maybe one of the enemies was able to take an additional 5 footstep for the round.
Additionally are there other distractions at the table like phones or tablets allowing for the players to be less focused during combat? Maybe they are just not focused. Casters should have all spells in front of them not head in a book each round.
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I live my life like a West Marches campaign, A swirling vortex of Ambitions and Insecurities.
Another thing that slow a turn is excessive talking between player characters so one way to limit this is to enforce the notion that only brief communication can occur on your turn and not let them elobarate tactic plans and such since in combat rounds lasting 6 seconds everything happen fast for everyone without much time to talk during it;
Other Activity on Your Turn: You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
I really don't like the of timers. It just brings the wrong tone to the game, like an exam.
The problem isn't so much one of not having enough time, so much as discipline, in my experience. They're waiting for their turn in order to start their process. Instead, they should always be playing their turn. My mental process is this (P1 being the next player after me to go; P2 going after them; etc):
End of my turn: I assess what happened, how my character is doing, what was the effect of my turn, etc.
End of P1's turn: I've already identified which of my allies are struggling, which monsters need taking down a peg.
End of P2: I've decided whether I'm going to attack the enemy, if I'm going to aid my allies, or if I'm going to alter the battlefield.
End of P3: I've picked out what I'm going to do and who in going to do it to.
Mid-P4: I've updated my plan to reflect changes in the scene, and I'm ready in my mind what's going to happen.
Start of my turn: My dice are in my hand, I'm ready to roll.
By the time my turn starts, I'll have at most two plans of action and in ready to implement either. My turn is spent carrying out my decisions that I already made beforehand.
That comes from prioritising playing the game over listening leisurely to the others. I certainly listen, and enjoy it, but I'm constantly preparing for my next turn so that I take maybe 30 seconds to carry it out. When you consider that still leads to 5-6 minute rounds and therefore half hour combats, it's the least you can do. I want to spend my time playing, not watching someone fumble through their spellbook! Other things I do is roll all my dice at once (if feasible). If you're a Paladin swinging twice, roll two d20s (different colours) and the weapon dice (one matching each of the d20) and nominate a colour for the first swing. I declare my to hit rolls, then the damage for any successes. What I don't do is roll d20...hit? Ok damage...yeah that's a six...d20...miss...d20...hit! That's an eight...too long. Roll in one go, and deal with it. If the first hit unexpectedly kills, then the subsequent rolls are ignored and rerolled (if necessary).
The problem is that this is something that needs to be instilled from the beginning. You need to do it starting from L1 so they're used to prepping and listening simultaneously. It'll be easy at L1 because they only have to deal with a few options - at L12 they have tons and could be overwhelmed trying to do that cold turkey.
Maybe timers are the way to force the issue and get them to start thinking ahead of time. Next time, in Session 0, I'd outline the expectation that they do as I suggest - prepping their turns and not staring gormlessly while others dig through their spell books.
The problem (in my experience) isn't that they're taking too long to make decisions, it's that they're starting to make their decisions too late.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I too have sometimes suffered at the hands of this situation. I have talked to my problem players because it's not all of them. Casters tend to be the ones who have the most trouble. However, I have never done a time. One suggestion I saw online was to use the timer and if they can't figure it out by the end of time you declare they take the defensive action and move to the next player. Most people say it takes no more than 2 times of this and the delay troubles disappear.
I suppose other options are to impose new issues in combat, like (not to pick on casters BUT) the spell the cast on the target is less effective, doing less damage or easier to save against like the target was prepared for it. Or the fighter went to strike an enemy and they do less damage or find they get struck at one extra time that round. Or maybe one of the enemies was able to take an additional 5 footstep for the round.
Additionally are there other distractions at the table like phones or tablets allowing for the players to be less focused during combat? Maybe they are just not focused. Casters should have all spells in front of them not head in a book each round.
That could be part of it honestly... Its kinda funny the fighter and me (Barbarian) use paper and pencil old school style. The sorlock, wizard, and cleric use phones/tablets. I think that part of it is just searching for things in D&D Beyond and navigating the app. The other would be planning their turn to late or not anticipating what could possibly happen to them outside of their turn.
Nope. Chess clock like turn timers, they're often invoked by DMs who feel some need to tighten their games ship. What's really needed is an increase in some combination of the DM's patience and/or the players' competency with the rules. Putting folks under a clock helps neither. Know what's on your sheet, and the DM needs to appreciate what's on the character sheet.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I keep a tiny little one minute hourglass handy and if someone is really taking an extraordinarily long time on their turn I’ll give them a 1-minute warning. If they haven’t told me what they’re doing before the sand runs out their character was frozen in indecision and skips a turn. I’ve only ever had to use it once.
I use the "on deck" system which has helped a lot for people to stay engaged and plan ahead.
Basically, when they are one creature away from their initiative, I tell them they're "on deck". This warns them that after this thing does what it's doing, they need to do something. Typically the battlefield doesn't change much in one activation, so it is fairly easy by then for people to pick out what they are doing!
do if it's the rogue next and then the barbarian, I would say "Rogue, it's your turn, Barbarian, you're on-deck" and then the rogue takes their turn. Meanwhile, the barbarian... wonders why they need time to decide to hit things. Ok, bad example XD
Thus far I've not timed turns, because I feel like the characters that we're playing will know their own abilities better than the players, so they aren't actually taking time to decide in the story. If someone is dragging too much, I may ask them for a decision, but thus far I have never had someone drag for that long!
That's your fellow casters fault. First, because they must have the spells studied before the game. It's okay to have a specific question, but if every turn you have to watch what your spells do, we're doing it wrong. And second, because they should think about what they are going to do before their turn comes. I have never put a time limit on my games, but I have scolded several players for this matter. I even kindly asked one of them not to come back to my games, since he spent the others' turn looking at the mobile and, when it was his turn, we had to explain what had happened. That shows 0 interest, and I prefer that you leave your place to someone else who really wants to play.
That's your fellow casters fault. First, because they must have the spells studied before the game. It's okay to have a specific question, but if every turn you have to watch what your spells do, we're doing it wrong.
I half agree. Casters should have an idea of what a spell does. However, specific details (such as exact range, etc) you can't reasonably expect them to have memorised. So, they should know that Fireball has a long range (over 100'), has an AoE of a sphere of about 20' and does lots of damage (lots of d6s, give or take a dice size) and that it's a save. They may have to look up that it's actually 150', it actually is 20' sphere, does 8d6 damage with half on a Dex Save.
Casters should know the general details of each of their spells, but for exact specifics, it's reasonable to assume they'll need to look it up. If they're using DDB, then it's really easy and I don't see why it should take so long.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Checking if a fireball has range 100 or 120 is a second. And you can do it out of turn. We're not talking about that. The ones that hinder the flow of the game are the ones who in their turn look at their entire list of spells, to see what they decide to do. "What does wall of fire do?". "Hold monster is char or wis?". "Ah, no, better cast haste." "I lose concentration, why? Ah, yes, I was already using concentration..."
When I'm not a DM, I usually play casters. Usually my turn doesn't last longer than my teammates, since I know what my spells do, and I think about what I'm going to do before my turn comes. Sometimes a turn can last a little longer because a question arises about X effect, or about how to solve a situation. That is normal. But I don't start looking at my spell list on my turn. I know what my spells do, I keep an eye on the game (something that seems like a truism to me), and I decide my actions before my turn starts.
I use the "on deck" system which has helped a lot for people to stay engaged and plan ahead.
I do this as well, and it really helps a person refocus their attention on planning their next actions.
I also tell people I expect them to know their character's powers and abilities better than me and that I expect them to know what they want to do next each round. I don't care how long the resolution takes; the declaration of the character action should be relatively quick.
Beyond that, I trust people to find their personal best way to stay engaged, and if someone's bringing the table down by being too slow, I talk with them privately and respectfully to see what we can do to help them be more ready.
In my experience, if a player begans taking a bit to long on the turn of combat, I encourage the player to hurry up. A round last for 6 seconds, I tell them that and say make your decision. For me it speeds them up rather Quickly and they say what they are going to do, but I don't have any full caster in my party, but I do expect my players to think of their move before hand.
I have folded cards on top of my DM screen that shows the initiative order which helps others to know when their turn is coming up. On these cards they have their names, AC, and Passive Perception/Investigation.
I use a turn timer when it starts to become an issue. After whipping it out 2 or 3 times the problem solves itself. A player will typically have a few minutes between turn and they should know their characters abilities (which is also a good reason to start at level 1).
I don't get to pushy, but when you do have that person who is doing something on their phone that has nothing to do with the game
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So we have this campaign of 5 people... A Barbarian, Rune Fighter, Sorlock, Wizard, and Twilight Domain Cleric. We normally don't add a timer to turns and I've never played in a campaign that has, however... As we go up in levels (12th) the turns are taking agonizingly long as mostly the casters take longer to figure out what spells work in the current combat situation. As the Barbarian my turns literally takes 2 minutes if that for "I swing my axe"... "I swing my axe again"... Ok I'm done. The casters (sorlock) on the other hand take alot longer per turn and its starting to drag the game down and affect progression.
What do ya'll think of timed turns for combat? Anyone do it? What say you?
/discuss
I don't use turn timer when i DM nor have i ever played a game where a DM did.
If i had a player slowing the game pace every turn by taking too much time to decide what to do i'd definitely talk to the player and suggest to start figuring what to do next turn when the creature in initiative before him or her is taking turn. If it's a matetr of dice rolling etc i'd suggest rolling both attack and damage dice altogheter to speed up play. In last resort, i'd treat analysis-paralysis syndrome with the Dogge action and move on to next turn order,
I too have sometimes suffered at the hands of this situation. I have talked to my problem players because it's not all of them. Casters tend to be the ones who have the most trouble. However, I have never done a time. One suggestion I saw online was to use the timer and if they can't figure it out by the end of time you declare they take the defensive action and move to the next player. Most people say it takes no more than 2 times of this and the delay troubles disappear.
I suppose other options are to impose new issues in combat, like (not to pick on casters BUT) the spell the cast on the target is less effective, doing less damage or easier to save against like the target was prepared for it. Or the fighter went to strike an enemy and they do less damage or find they get struck at one extra time that round. Or maybe one of the enemies was able to take an additional 5 footstep for the round.
Additionally are there other distractions at the table like phones or tablets allowing for the players to be less focused during combat? Maybe they are just not focused. Casters should have all spells in front of them not head in a book each round.
I live my life like a West Marches campaign, A swirling vortex of Ambitions and Insecurities.
Another thing that slow a turn is excessive talking between player characters so one way to limit this is to enforce the notion that only brief communication can occur on your turn and not let them elobarate tactic plans and such since in combat rounds lasting 6 seconds everything happen fast for everyone without much time to talk during it;
I really don't like the of timers. It just brings the wrong tone to the game, like an exam.
The problem isn't so much one of not having enough time, so much as discipline, in my experience. They're waiting for their turn in order to start their process. Instead, they should always be playing their turn. My mental process is this (P1 being the next player after me to go; P2 going after them; etc):
End of my turn: I assess what happened, how my character is doing, what was the effect of my turn, etc.
End of P1's turn: I've already identified which of my allies are struggling, which monsters need taking down a peg.
End of P2: I've decided whether I'm going to attack the enemy, if I'm going to aid my allies, or if I'm going to alter the battlefield.
End of P3: I've picked out what I'm going to do and who in going to do it to.
Mid-P4: I've updated my plan to reflect changes in the scene, and I'm ready in my mind what's going to happen.
Start of my turn: My dice are in my hand, I'm ready to roll.
By the time my turn starts, I'll have at most two plans of action and in ready to implement either. My turn is spent carrying out my decisions that I already made beforehand.
That comes from prioritising playing the game over listening leisurely to the others. I certainly listen, and enjoy it, but I'm constantly preparing for my next turn so that I take maybe 30 seconds to carry it out. When you consider that still leads to 5-6 minute rounds and therefore half hour combats, it's the least you can do. I want to spend my time playing, not watching someone fumble through their spellbook! Other things I do is roll all my dice at once (if feasible). If you're a Paladin swinging twice, roll two d20s (different colours) and the weapon dice (one matching each of the d20) and nominate a colour for the first swing. I declare my to hit rolls, then the damage for any successes. What I don't do is roll d20...hit? Ok damage...yeah that's a six...d20...miss...d20...hit! That's an eight...too long. Roll in one go, and deal with it. If the first hit unexpectedly kills, then the subsequent rolls are ignored and rerolled (if necessary).
The problem is that this is something that needs to be instilled from the beginning. You need to do it starting from L1 so they're used to prepping and listening simultaneously. It'll be easy at L1 because they only have to deal with a few options - at L12 they have tons and could be overwhelmed trying to do that cold turkey.
Maybe timers are the way to force the issue and get them to start thinking ahead of time. Next time, in Session 0, I'd outline the expectation that they do as I suggest - prepping their turns and not staring gormlessly while others dig through their spell books.
The problem (in my experience) isn't that they're taking too long to make decisions, it's that they're starting to make their decisions too late.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
That could be part of it honestly... Its kinda funny the fighter and me (Barbarian) use paper and pencil old school style. The sorlock, wizard, and cleric use phones/tablets. I think that part of it is just searching for things in D&D Beyond and navigating the app. The other would be planning their turn to late or not anticipating what could possibly happen to them outside of their turn.
Nope. Chess clock like turn timers, they're often invoked by DMs who feel some need to tighten their games ship. What's really needed is an increase in some combination of the DM's patience and/or the players' competency with the rules. Putting folks under a clock helps neither. Know what's on your sheet, and the DM needs to appreciate what's on the character sheet.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I keep a tiny little one minute hourglass handy and if someone is really taking an extraordinarily long time on their turn I’ll give them a 1-minute warning. If they haven’t told me what they’re doing before the sand runs out their character was frozen in indecision and skips a turn. I’ve only ever had to use it once.
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I use the "on deck" system which has helped a lot for people to stay engaged and plan ahead.
Basically, when they are one creature away from their initiative, I tell them they're "on deck". This warns them that after this thing does what it's doing, they need to do something. Typically the battlefield doesn't change much in one activation, so it is fairly easy by then for people to pick out what they are doing!
do if it's the rogue next and then the barbarian, I would say "Rogue, it's your turn, Barbarian, you're on-deck" and then the rogue takes their turn. Meanwhile, the barbarian... wonders why they need time to decide to hit things. Ok, bad example XD
Thus far I've not timed turns, because I feel like the characters that we're playing will know their own abilities better than the players, so they aren't actually taking time to decide in the story. If someone is dragging too much, I may ask them for a decision, but thus far I have never had someone drag for that long!
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That's your fellow casters fault. First, because they must have the spells studied before the game. It's okay to have a specific question, but if every turn you have to watch what your spells do, we're doing it wrong.
And second, because they should think about what they are going to do before their turn comes.
I have never put a time limit on my games, but I have scolded several players for this matter. I even kindly asked one of them not to come back to my games, since he spent the others' turn looking at the mobile and, when it was his turn, we had to explain what had happened. That shows 0 interest, and I prefer that you leave your place to someone else who really wants to play.
I half agree. Casters should have an idea of what a spell does. However, specific details (such as exact range, etc) you can't reasonably expect them to have memorised. So, they should know that Fireball has a long range (over 100'), has an AoE of a sphere of about 20' and does lots of damage (lots of d6s, give or take a dice size) and that it's a save. They may have to look up that it's actually 150', it actually is 20' sphere, does 8d6 damage with half on a Dex Save.
Casters should know the general details of each of their spells, but for exact specifics, it's reasonable to assume they'll need to look it up. If they're using DDB, then it's really easy and I don't see why it should take so long.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Checking if a fireball has range 100 or 120 is a second. And you can do it out of turn. We're not talking about that. The ones that hinder the flow of the game are the ones who in their turn look at their entire list of spells, to see what they decide to do. "What does wall of fire do?". "Hold monster is char or wis?". "Ah, no, better cast haste." "I lose concentration, why? Ah, yes, I was already using concentration..."
When I'm not a DM, I usually play casters. Usually my turn doesn't last longer than my teammates, since I know what my spells do, and I think about what I'm going to do before my turn comes. Sometimes a turn can last a little longer because a question arises about X effect, or about how to solve a situation. That is normal. But I don't start looking at my spell list on my turn. I know what my spells do, I keep an eye on the game (something that seems like a truism to me), and I decide my actions before my turn starts.
Oh yeah, on decking helps a lot. I use that too and it really does speed up combat quite a bit.
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I do this as well, and it really helps a person refocus their attention on planning their next actions.
I also tell people I expect them to know their character's powers and abilities better than me and that I expect them to know what they want to do next each round. I don't care how long the resolution takes; the declaration of the character action should be relatively quick.
Beyond that, I trust people to find their personal best way to stay engaged, and if someone's bringing the table down by being too slow, I talk with them privately and respectfully to see what we can do to help them be more ready.
In my experience, if a player begans taking a bit to long on the turn of combat, I encourage the player to hurry up. A round last for 6 seconds, I tell them that and say make your decision. For me it speeds them up rather Quickly and they say what they are going to do, but I don't have any full caster in my party, but I do expect my players to think of their move before hand.
I have folded cards on top of my DM screen that shows the initiative order which helps others to know when their turn is coming up. On these cards they have their names, AC, and Passive Perception/Investigation.
I use a turn timer when it starts to become an issue. After whipping it out 2 or 3 times the problem solves itself. A player will typically have a few minutes between turn and they should know their characters abilities (which is also a good reason to start at level 1).
I don't get to pushy, but when you do have that person who is doing something on their phone that has nothing to do with the game