Can anyone figure out what they are doing here? Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the WoTC VTT that I have seen (am a Foundry user) but it seems really strange that DDB is building Maps! while the WoTC VTT is also under development...
The Alpha release is an early version of Maps to demonstrate what we're developing for DM's to host game sessions. Due to being an Alpha, this version may be different than the final product and will contain bugs or performance issues. We intend on learning from our players to inform broader releases. Try it out with your games today and provide feedback! Check back regularly for new features!
My interpretation is that it's related to the VTT. Essentially, this is an alpha test if either the maps aspect of the VTT, or it's effectively a stripped down economy version of the VTT.
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Hey look, a FAQ. Which doesn't answer why they're doing it, but it's clearly not the VTT.
It could well be part of the VTT. I'd expect it's using the same API, and it could well be built upon the same guts, just with a much simpler interface layer.
It'd be a weird choice if it wasn't testing parts of the VTT tech stack.
Hey look, a FAQ. Which doesn't answer why they're doing it, but it's clearly not the VTT.
All that says is that it's not the VTT. No one claimed it was. I put forth two suggestions that it was related to the VTT, either testing an aspect of it or presenting an economy version of it, but no one was under the impression that it was an alpha of the VTT itself.
It'll be interesting to see where this goes. The fact that it's Master Tier and not Hero Tier suggests that it's intended to always be locked behind Master (and it's not sub-only due to early access being a sub perk). It also suggests that the VTT itself will not be a feature intended to attract people, but a premium service. That again raises questions marks, given that Roll20 provides a VTT for similar priced books, but without the need for a sub, or a higher priced tier of book if that's the route they go down. Personally, I'm assuming there'll be a third tier of sub (or a rearrangement to eliminate Hero Tier), but how they'll price that in will be interesting. I know that Wizards' VTT will at least be graphically superior to Roll20, but any sub will mount up in costs.
On a related but still tangential note, anyone else noticed that subs have gone down? I'm sure it used to be $2.99/$4.99 a month, now it's $2.17/$4.58 a month.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It'll be interesting to see where this goes. The fact that it's Master Tier and not Hero Tier suggests that it's intended to always be locked behind Master (and it's not sub-only due to early access being a sub perk).
It's likely a functional requirement, as it would be unusable without either content sharing (for WotC maps) or storage (for custom maps).
Master Tier has always been early access to all tools. Hero Tier gets you all released tool plus early access to player tools. I wouldn't read too much into this being locked behind Master tier.
I also think the VTT will likely have many piecemeal components to accommodate as many ways of playing D&D and using D&D Beyond and using VTT as it can. Some folks want a 2-D map, others want a 3-D unreal experience. I think WotC would like to be able to provide both. It's done exhaustive research in the myriad things people mean when they say "play D&D" and making D&D Beyond a one stop shop means there will be many let's call them "tiers of playstyle" which that one stop shop would like to entertain.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Hard to speak with certainty, but the Maps feature is almost identical to Above VTT and some of the other super easy to use but very limited VTT. Basically it mimics what you have with a real life table and a battle map that you can set down. The VTT is supposed to be the best 3D experience, bringing DM tools that create a near video game style of play.
I would guess that the Maps feature will be available at minimal to no cost, much like the competing products. It also provides a place for players to get and use digital maps from purchased modules. This will make it much more desirable to buy a digital module even if you aren't sure you will play it as the maps will provide real value. Hopefully they will eventually add the maps for all the prior modules. This has been a serious weakness of online support for modules as DMs have to create their own, or buy from 3rd party suppliers.
If the VTT lives up to the hype it will likely require a subscription above and beyond the "Master Tier". I'm guessing it will cost about $5-10 per month more than the Master Tier and include all the benefits of the Master Tier as well as additional advantages. Microtransactions are also likely so DMs can buy extra tokens, objects, and maps.
From the FAQ already linked here, they seem to answer some of the questions raised in this thread. They made the Maps tool because they want to be the one-stop-shop for all things D&D and not everyone wants the VTT or cannot afford a rig to run something so ‘advanced’.
By providing both Maps and our 3D VTT, we are building an ecosystem that provides hybrid and digital play experiences that allow fans to choose how and where they want to play. This means fans will be able to play D&D characters wherever they want to, whether that is on D&D Beyond, in the 3D VTT, or with pen and paper.
I don’t believe Maps is related to the VTT at all. This will be distinct from it and will be offered at a Master Tier, which suggests that the VTT will be offered at some premium subscription. Much like many services do now. Think of Nintendo’s online game library. I would not be surprised to see the VTT on a $15 - $50 USD yearly premium sub service for either all users or just Master Tiers with temporary access that the subscribers can give out.
My take on "Why Maps when they have a different VTT in flight?" is pretty easy.
There are going to be significant swaths of people that won't buy into the super fancy 3D tabletop VTT experience that's being built. No matter how great it is some folks won't have an interest, the budget, or some combination of reasons not to go deep on it.
Maps fills the void between "Nothing VTT related" and "Super fancy 3D VTT related"
Instead of leaving the simpler product to third parties, WotC can have two VTTs that each offer differing scale experiences. They'll net more money that way (this is not a bad thing) and there's a clear conversion path:
GM not using any VTT tools
GM using Maps as a rapid deployment tool
GM using D&D Direct VTT as a full service tool
There's money to be made, why wouldn't they want it all? From a customer perspective I get the simple security of knowing that what I buy on D&D Beyond can scale into Maps and D&D Direct, and any interoperability will work better than if a third party did it and had to rely on WotC giving them legal permission and possible API access points.
This combo is a full range of services answer. I like it.
Master Tier has always been early access to all tools. Hero Tier gets you all released tool plus early access to player tools. I wouldn't read too much into this being locked behind Master tier.
Yeah, I've only just noticed the distinction made between player tools and all tools. Perhaps it could be free. Hopefully it is, seems a bit steep to charge a sub on top of the books for a Roll20esque experience.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Master Tier has always been early access to all tools. Hero Tier gets you all released tool plus early access to player tools. I wouldn't read too much into this being locked behind Master tier.
Yeah, I've only just noticed the distinction made between player tools and all tools. Perhaps it could be free. Hopefully it is, seems a bit steep to charge a sub on top of the books for a Roll20esque experience.
The paid tiers for now are "early access", the tools that were early access to hero and master tiers are now available to non subscribers. It's how they roll (things out).
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Honestly to me it doesn't matter 'why' they're doing this simple virtual tabletop right when they have a dedicated one coming.
I'm far more excited about this basic one, as it actually runs for people playing on potatos. I've seen games kill their own playerbase far too many times simply because people can't run it.
What a colossal waste of time/money. AboveVTT has this and much, much more that is not locked behind a paywall. Stop recreating the wheel.
They are not recreating the wheel, they are trying to generate more revenue. I look forward to having WotC's version of AboveVTT but one that doesn't break whenever there is an update pushed.
Who asked for maps? This can not be the number 1 or even the top 100th thing asked for. How are you all trying to make a VTT when the program, and features for the character sheet is completely broken still? Are there any programmers working on simple features to improve the character sheet? You haven't even implemented the ability to roll multiple different damage dice yet....which is a core part of the game mechanics? What about toggles for buff like bless etc? How about fixing and expanding the homebrew options?
Ugh this site has gone from crawling along with features to making a poor excuses of broken features nobody wants or asked for. People have payed good money for other great functioning, and well established VTT's... Everyone has already trained multiple generations on them, and they are right now training the next generations on them.
Nobody is going to sink money for this VTT, it is a waste of time to even try and create it as we all see the unfinished mess you left the character sheets in. Especially when you have shown a lack of interest, or none at all, into fixing and expanding on what the site was originally made for.
Who is calling the shots since it has gotten bought out? That person most definitely lives on the moors.
Who asked for maps? This can not be the number 1 or even the top 100th thing asked for. How are you all trying to make a VTT when the program, and features for the character sheet is completely broken still? Are there any programmers working on simple features to improve the character sheet? You haven't even implemented the ability to roll multiple different damage dice yet....which is a core part of the game mechanics? What about toggles for buff like bless etc? How about fixing and expanding the homebrew options?
Ugh this site has gone from crawling along with features to making a poor excuses of broken features nobody wants or asked for. People have payed good money for other great functioning, and well established VTT's... Everyone has already trained multiple generations on them, and and they are right now training the next generations on them.
Nobody is going to sink money for this VTT, it is a waste of time to even try and create it as we all see the unfinished mess you left the character sheets in. Especially when you have shown a lack of interest, or none at all, into fixing and expanding on what the site was originally made for.
Who is calling the shots since it has gotten bought out? That person most definitely lives on the moors.
I agree with a lot of this. Many will buy in and it is a publicly traded company owned buy a larger publicly traded company so by law they have to pay the shareholders until they go bankrupt.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
What a colossal waste of time/money. AboveVTT has this and much, much more that is not locked behind a paywall. Stop recreating the wheel.
They are not recreating the wheel, they are trying to generate more revenue. I look forward to having WotC's version of AboveVTT but one that doesn't break whenever there is an update pushed.
Most of the breaking is probably my fault lol. DDB rarely pushes updates that break above (at least for the past while). I'm certainly bias having contributed to AboveVTT quite a bit but even I would like to see DDBs map tool catch up to AboveVTT and the other bigger VTTs. I don't know what their plans are past their current roadmap.
Even if it doesn't end up being the tool for me I'm glad its here and to see things being worked on. For now I'm going to stick to other tools since it's pretty sparse on features (ofc given it's alpha that makes sense) - a little more hopeful when it comes to the future of ddb though. I do also like to see that this option is going to be available along side their other planned 3D VTT.
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Can anyone figure out what they are doing here? Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of the WoTC VTT that I have seen (am a Foundry user) but it seems really strange that DDB is building Maps! while the WoTC VTT is also under development...
From the description:
My interpretation is that it's related to the VTT. Essentially, this is an alpha test if either the maps aspect of the VTT, or it's effectively a stripped down economy version of the VTT.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Hey look, a FAQ. Which doesn't answer why they're doing it, but it's clearly not the VTT.
It could well be part of the VTT. I'd expect it's using the same API, and it could well be built upon the same guts, just with a much simpler interface layer.
It'd be a weird choice if it wasn't testing parts of the VTT tech stack.
All that says is that it's not the VTT. No one claimed it was. I put forth two suggestions that it was related to the VTT, either testing an aspect of it or presenting an economy version of it, but no one was under the impression that it was an alpha of the VTT itself.
It'll be interesting to see where this goes. The fact that it's Master Tier and not Hero Tier suggests that it's intended to always be locked behind Master (and it's not sub-only due to early access being a sub perk). It also suggests that the VTT itself will not be a feature intended to attract people, but a premium service. That again raises questions marks, given that Roll20 provides a VTT for similar priced books, but without the need for a sub, or a higher priced tier of book if that's the route they go down. Personally, I'm assuming there'll be a third tier of sub (or a rearrangement to eliminate Hero Tier), but how they'll price that in will be interesting. I know that Wizards' VTT will at least be graphically superior to Roll20, but any sub will mount up in costs.
On a related but still tangential note, anyone else noticed that subs have gone down? I'm sure it used to be $2.99/$4.99 a month, now it's $2.17/$4.58 a month.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
It's likely a functional requirement, as it would be unusable without either content sharing (for WotC maps) or storage (for custom maps).
Master Tier has always been early access to all tools. Hero Tier gets you all released tool plus early access to player tools. I wouldn't read too much into this being locked behind Master tier.
I also think the VTT will likely have many piecemeal components to accommodate as many ways of playing D&D and using D&D Beyond and using VTT as it can. Some folks want a 2-D map, others want a 3-D unreal experience. I think WotC would like to be able to provide both. It's done exhaustive research in the myriad things people mean when they say "play D&D" and making D&D Beyond a one stop shop means there will be many let's call them "tiers of playstyle" which that one stop shop would like to entertain.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Does the VTT support grids?
Probably doesn't matter as my computer is old so likely can't run it anyway.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
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"real life is a super high CR."
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Basing it on that demo from a few months back, it didn’t look like the grid was obvious, but it’s tough to say.
Hard to speak with certainty, but the Maps feature is almost identical to Above VTT and some of the other super easy to use but very limited VTT. Basically it mimics what you have with a real life table and a battle map that you can set down. The VTT is supposed to be the best 3D experience, bringing DM tools that create a near video game style of play.
I would guess that the Maps feature will be available at minimal to no cost, much like the competing products. It also provides a place for players to get and use digital maps from purchased modules. This will make it much more desirable to buy a digital module even if you aren't sure you will play it as the maps will provide real value. Hopefully they will eventually add the maps for all the prior modules. This has been a serious weakness of online support for modules as DMs have to create their own, or buy from 3rd party suppliers.
If the VTT lives up to the hype it will likely require a subscription above and beyond the "Master Tier". I'm guessing it will cost about $5-10 per month more than the Master Tier and include all the benefits of the Master Tier as well as additional advantages. Microtransactions are also likely so DMs can buy extra tokens, objects, and maps.
From the FAQ already linked here, they seem to answer some of the questions raised in this thread. They made the Maps tool because they want to be the one-stop-shop for all things D&D and not everyone wants the VTT or cannot afford a rig to run something so ‘advanced’.
I don’t believe Maps is related to the VTT at all. This will be distinct from it and will be offered at a Master Tier, which suggests that the VTT will be offered at some premium subscription. Much like many services do now. Think of Nintendo’s online game library. I would not be surprised to see the VTT on a $15 - $50 USD yearly premium sub service for either all users or just Master Tiers with temporary access that the subscribers can give out.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
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Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
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My take on "Why Maps when they have a different VTT in flight?" is pretty easy.
There are going to be significant swaths of people that won't buy into the super fancy 3D tabletop VTT experience that's being built. No matter how great it is some folks won't have an interest, the budget, or some combination of reasons not to go deep on it.
Maps fills the void between "Nothing VTT related" and "Super fancy 3D VTT related"
Instead of leaving the simpler product to third parties, WotC can have two VTTs that each offer differing scale experiences. They'll net more money that way (this is not a bad thing) and there's a clear conversion path:
There's money to be made, why wouldn't they want it all? From a customer perspective I get the simple security of knowing that what I buy on D&D Beyond can scale into Maps and D&D Direct, and any interoperability will work better than if a third party did it and had to rely on WotC giving them legal permission and possible API access points.
This combo is a full range of services answer. I like it.
Yeah, I've only just noticed the distinction made between player tools and all tools. Perhaps it could be free. Hopefully it is, seems a bit steep to charge a sub on top of the books for a Roll20esque experience.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The paid tiers for now are "early access", the tools that were early access to hero and master tiers are now available to non subscribers. It's how they roll (things out).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Honestly to me it doesn't matter 'why' they're doing this simple virtual tabletop right when they have a dedicated one coming.
I'm far more excited about this basic one, as it actually runs for people playing on potatos. I've seen games kill their own playerbase far too many times simply because people can't run it.
What a colossal waste of time/money. AboveVTT has this and much, much more that is not locked behind a paywall. Stop recreating the wheel.
They are not recreating the wheel, they are trying to generate more revenue. I look forward to having WotC's version of AboveVTT but one that doesn't break whenever there is an update pushed.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Who asked for maps?
This can not be the number 1 or even the top 100th thing asked for.
How are you all trying to make a VTT when the program, and features for the character sheet is completely broken still?
Are there any programmers working on simple features to improve the character sheet?
You haven't even implemented the ability to roll multiple different damage dice yet....which is a core part of the game mechanics?
What about toggles for buff like bless etc?
How about fixing and expanding the homebrew options?
Ugh this site has gone from crawling along with features to making a poor excuses of broken features nobody wants or asked for.
People have payed good money for other great functioning, and well established VTT's...
Everyone has already trained multiple generations on them, and they are right now training the next generations on them.
Nobody is going to sink money for this VTT, it is a waste of time to even try and create it as we all see the unfinished mess you left the character sheets in.
Especially when you have shown a lack of interest, or none at all, into fixing and expanding on what the site was originally made for.
Who is calling the shots since it has gotten bought out? That person most definitely lives on the moors.
I agree with a lot of this. Many will buy in and it is a publicly traded company owned buy a larger publicly traded company so by law they have to pay the shareholders until they go bankrupt.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Most of the breaking is probably my fault lol. DDB rarely pushes updates that break above (at least for the past while). I'm certainly bias having contributed to AboveVTT quite a bit but even I would like to see DDBs map tool catch up to AboveVTT and the other bigger VTTs. I don't know what their plans are past their current roadmap.
Even if it doesn't end up being the tool for me I'm glad its here and to see things being worked on. For now I'm going to stick to other tools since it's pretty sparse on features (ofc given it's alpha that makes sense) - a little more hopeful when it comes to the future of ddb though. I do also like to see that this option is going to be available along side their other planned 3D VTT.