It's the end of the week and still no sorcerer Article ? Yet the Cleric and Bard were unaffected?
Honestly the two updates I was most interested in was Sorcer and Warlock and both got delayed, why ?
There could be any number of reasons. I used to be an editor for a now defunct comic book website. When we would have guest writers, I had to review everything that went up. Sometimes, I would also be collaborating with publishers/writers/artists to make sure content met their own requirements and desires. This caused delays as well because you are working on their time, not your own.
It could be that the writer was late, it could be that they misunderstood an ability that the editor caught and something had to be revised, or it could be that they accidentally put something in an article that WotC doesn't want revealed yet. There are so many other reasons, it just isn't worth getting upset about. It will be coming eventually.
I was reading the article for the Sorcerer, and this phrase got my attention:
First, everybody "prepares" spells now. But this change is a stylistic one for the Sorcerer. You still edit your spell list when you level up and can only change one spell on your list at a time.
Spellcasting looks a little different in the 2024 Player’s Handbook. All spellcasting classes prepare their spells now, although some classes still change their spells when they level up, just like you’re used to.
So now, all spellcasters will have a list of known spells from which they will choose what to prepare after a long rest, similar to Wizards in the 2014 PHB, instead of a fixed number of spells known associated with their level like the Sorcerer or the Ranger in 2014?
Can someone translate for me I been playing dnd for like 6 years but still a bit confused about prepare and known... So now all spells are prepared but we still have known..? I'm confused
Reading the article it sounds like Sorcerers get 2 metamagics at lvl 2.. than 2 at 10? I hope not.. why repeat the same problem from 2014. Far better option woulda been 2 at 2, 1 at 6 and 1 at 10
Can someone translate for me I been playing dnd for like 6 years but still a bit confused about prepare and known... So now all spells are prepared but we still have known..? I'm confused
As far as I understand, all the classes (except Warlocks, I imagine) will now have a list of known spells, and you can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. (as usual)
This is similar to how Druids, Clerics, Paladins, and Wizards worked in 2014.
However, Druids, Clerics, and Paladins in 2014 had access to the entire spell list. So, I guess that now in 2024, each class will have access to more or fewer spells from their corresponding spell list.
EDIT: To be honest, I'm not sure yet... my previous question was about this...
Can someone translate for me I been playing dnd for like 6 years but still a bit confused about prepare and known... So now all spells are prepared but we still have known..? I'm confused
Think of a wizard. It's basically that with some small differences. You will know a certain number of spells but can only prepare some after finishing a rest. It may be something similar to wizards when it comes to learning spells too; you start with some, then learn some at level up automatically. Of that list of spells you have learned, you can only remember the details of how to cast a certain number a day because spellcasting is so complicated. That is why wizards consult their spellbook every morning; to essentially memorize how to cast the spells they want. Who knows how finding scrolls are going to factor into it just yet.
Can someone translate for me I been playing dnd for like 6 years but still a bit confused about prepare and known... So now all spells are prepared but we still have known..? I'm confused
Think of a wizard. It's basically that with some small differences. You will know a certain number of spells but can only prepare some after finishing a rest. It may be something similar to wizards when it comes to learning spells too; you start with some, then learn some at level up automatically. Of that list of spells you have learned, you can only remember the details of how to cast a certain number a day because spellcasting is so complicated. That is why wizards consult their spellbook every morning; to essentially memorize how to cast the spells they want. Who knows how finding scrolls are going to factor into it just yet.
I think I'm confused. (perhaps missing context - you're not saying that 2024 Sorcerers are going to have a similar mechanism as Wizards for swapping out spells, right?)
I thought for 2014 5E there were classes that prepared spells daily (after each long rest) like Clerics & Druids, from the complete spell list for their class, and then Wizards are also said to 'prepare spells daily' too, but the mechinism is different: they only prepare spells from those written in their Wizard's Spell book. And then Classes with Spells Known, like Sorerers and Bards, they can't change out spells after each long rest but rather are only able swap out one spell each time they level up.
In the 2014 5E cantrips origianlly couldn't be swapped out, and then by optional rules "Cantrip Versatility" from Tasha'scan only one can be swaped out at specific level up events (Levels when you get an ability score increase or feat).
I think for 2024 edtion, one Cantrip can be swapped out at each leveling up event, (I'm not sure if that's in addition to or instead of a leveled spell, for classes that have Known Spells). I'm not sure if there is anything else that we have been told about possible changes in rules for swappinig out leveled spells, but I might have missed something related to that.
I believe when they say that all spellcasters now "prepare" spells, they just mean that they've standardized the terminology used to talk about spellcasting. For the most part, all classes get their spells the same way they did in 2014 (besides Rangers/Paladins) but if you're a spontaneous caster (Bard/Sorcerer) you "prepare" new spells as you level up and can swap one you already prepared each level. I believe Rangers and Paladins now "prepare" each level BUT they can swap one single spell after each long rest.
I will be honest, it is entirely possible I misunderstood the information given and I don't want to mislead, but from what I heard in the preview of the 2024 casters, all the spellcasters prepare spells for the day from a curated selection of the entire class spell list. For example at level up, a cleric/druid/sorcerer has the entire class list to choose new spells from, but they can only select x amount of new ones to have prepared and can swap when certain conditions are met, like a level up or a long rest.
This is only based on previews though, so it may not be painting a full or accurate picture. If you want to review for yourself though, Tarodnet comment cites the sources that gave me my current understanding; the 2024 Ranger vs. 2014 Ranger article:
Spellcasting looks a little different in the 2024 Player’s Handbook. All spellcasting classes prepare their spells now, although some classes still change their spells when they level up, just like you’re used to. Spellcasting classes are no longer distinguished by who prepares spells and who learns them, but rather how often a class can change their prepared spells and how many they can change at a time. For example, now the 2024 Ranger prepares its spells when they complete a Long Rest, just like the Druid, but can only swap out one spell per day.
This would be a departure from the 2014 rules. After having slept on it, maybe every class is now more similar to the 2014 cleric and druid, rather than the 2014 wizard. I guess we will see in two months.
“The Sorcerer’s Spellcasting feature grants you more spells and flexibility, and has seen some slight tweaks to nomenclature.
First, everybody "prepares" spells now. But this change is a stylistic one for the Sorcerer. You still edit your spell list when you level up and can only change one spell on your list at a time.”
So, my reading of this is that the process of generating and changing the Sorcerer’s list of spells they have ready to cast works like it did, but it’s now called “preparing”. It looks like a character’s list of spells is now called their “prepared” spells, regardless of class.
I have the same feeling as @Erik_Soong. It would be nice to get some clarification from the staff in one of the articles, or we can just wait for the printed books 😅
I'm 99% sure the whole "sorcerers prepare spells now" is simply a terminology thing. Sorcerers prepare every spell they know, so it's not like they even have the ability to swap out spells on a long rest, since there's nothing to swap out. It's not like other classes that know more spells than they can prepare, like the wizard or cleric. That's what I got from the article and videos on it anyway.
Clerics & Druids know their entire list, and can prepare a subset of that on LR.
Wizards know a subset of their entire list (what's in their spell book), and can prepare a subset of that on LR.
Sorcerers know a subset of their entire list (the spells they choose on level up), and prepare all of them all the time.
I'm 99% sure the whole "sorcerers prepare spells now" is simply a terminology thing. Sorcerers prepare every spell they know, so it's not like they even have the ability to swap out spells on a long rest, since there's nothing to swap out. It's not like other classes that know more spells than they can prepare, like the wizard or cleric. That's what I got from the article and videos on it anyway.
Clerics & Druids know their entire list, and can prepare a subset of that on LR.
Wizards know a subset of their entire list (what's in their spell book), and can prepare a subset of that on LR.
Sorcerers know a subset of their entire list (the spells they choose on level up), and prepare all of them all the time.
This.
And unifying the terminology makes sense, because it makes it easy for other things that give you spells - like your species, or subclass, or feats, or even magic items - to all work the same way. Say you're a wizard who loses their spellbook, now you don't have to wonder which spells in the old book they "knew" or not to transfer over - they can simply transfer any prepared wizard spells to the new one, and those can include wizard spells they have prepared from other sources besides leveling up.
I'm 99% sure the whole "sorcerers prepare spells now" is simply a terminology thing. Sorcerers prepare every spell they know, so it's not like they even have the ability to swap out spells on a long rest, since there's nothing to swap out. It's not like other classes that know more spells than they can prepare, like the wizard or cleric. That's what I got from the article and videos on it anyway.
Clerics & Druids know their entire list, and can prepare a subset of that on LR.
Wizards know a subset of their entire list (what's in their spell book), and can prepare a subset of that on LR.
Sorcerers know a subset of their entire list (the spells they choose on level up), and prepare all of them all the time.
After reading this post, it does make a lot of sense. Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding.
Some open questions now that I've had some time to digest it all, talk through some things, and comparing with what I have in my UA notes (specifically on draconic sorcerers since that's most pertinent to my interests at the moment, but also on the sorc in general):
1. Font of Magic. There was no talk in either the video or the article on the UA change to Font of Magic action economy. In the UA, turning spell slots into sorcery points was a free action (BA in 2014). In the video, JC quickly went from describing FoM as being able to change SP into Spell Slots and vise versa to SP's usage for MM (the signature ability of the entire class) with no mention of that change. Hopefully this was just an omission, and not a reversion back to 2014.
2. The Draconic Sorcerer Spell List. We have about half (?) of them at this point? Curious what the rest are.
3. Dragon Speech at level 3. There was no talk of this. The latest UA had the text amended to make it seem even more like a magical ability (all creatures of the "Dragon" type can understand your speech) than a skill, though "speak, read, and write Draconic" - period - was still there. If I had my way, I would add a bit of flavor to that text just to drive the point home: you don't actually know the language, but the magic within you allows you communicate with any dragon type whether it's through spoken or written words. For all intents and purposes you "know" the Draconic language without actually knowing it. In other words, you couldn't teach someone the language, or communicate in Draconic with someone who is not a dragon type. The only problem this creates in my mind is that you could not, then, communicate with other draconic sorcerers using Draconic.
4. Dragon Wings. All we know is that they are given earlier, and are no longer effectively permanent. Originally at level 14, "earlier" could be a lot of different levels (though my guess would be somewhere around 10 or even earlier, depending on how long they last).
5. Draconic Presence. No mention of this at all, but it can't remain unchanged from 2014. For starters, summoning your dragon companion for free (and no concentration!) was mentioned as the new subclass capstone, which would replace this. But they never talked about getting rid of it. That leads me to believe that it's still there somewhere, but earlier in the progression. Perhaps it's the new level 14 ability? It's a perfectly reasonable ability and does tie into the subclass, in a way, but I think it was universally despised as a level 18 ability that you needed to spend 5 SP on.
Last thoughts:
There was some talk on the discord on whether the spell lists added onto the already significantly increased prepared spells the 2024 sorcs get, or if they were merely part of that increase. I'm thinking it's the latter, meaning that the number of spells you choose per level is roughly the same as before, but you just get a bunch of freebies on top of that.
And then there's twinned spell... I'm under the impression that most people think the name of the MM should have been changed with what's been presented to us as the rework, but there was one person on the discord that almost convinced me that perhaps it was left that way on purpose. Their rationale was that every example they've given so far of how the new twinned works has been upcasting a one-target spell to two (you know... effectively "twinning" it). For example, upcasting Hold Person from level 2 to level 3. Under this assumption, you could NOT - for example - cast it at level 4 (targeting 3) and spend a SP to upcast it at level 5 (targeting 4). Now, of course, the latest text from the UA has no mention of this restriction, and they never specifically called it out as only going from 1 target to 2, and I don't know the spell lists well enough to know how much of a nerf from the UA this would be, but I found it to be an interesting argument. At the end of the day, that person is either going to be correct, or pleasantly surprised in August.
they took away the draconic sorcerers unlimited flight ;-; it maybe faster but it lasting forever meant more to me tbh tho idk what kinda resource they are tieing it to now
I never liked how that was designed. Saying that it requires a bonus action on your turn implies you are constantly thinking about keeping them on. Also since it was level 14, most people never got to use it.
It doesn't feel like Sorcerer got a huge amount of attention, but like all main spellcasting classes they are inherently harder to do because the nature of spellcasting is already very powerful.
Don't like that "Wild Magic sorcerers don't need bonus spells because the table is a bonus spell" logic.
I agree. The wild magic table needs some serious changes to justify the zero bonus spells because right now that table is pathetic. Also the surge would need to happen much more frequently than it does now
they took away the draconic sorcerers unlimited flight ;-; it maybe faster but it lasting forever meant more to me tbh tho idk what kinda resource they are tieing it to now
I never liked how that was designed. Saying that it requires a bonus action on your turn implies you are constantly thinking about keeping them on. Also since it was level 14, most people never got to use it.
It doesn't feel like Sorcerer got a huge amount of attention, but like all main spellcasting classes they are inherently harder to do because the nature of spellcasting is already very powerful.
Don't like that "Wild Magic sorcerers don't need bonus spells because the table is a bonus spell" logic.
I agree. The wild magic table needs some serious changes to justify the zero bonus spells because right now that table is pathetic. Also the surge would need to happen much more frequently than it does now
Both of those things appear to be true, though. So at least there's hope.
I know it's too late to give feedback that will change in the PHB, but the fact that the interaction between the Draconic Sorcerer and the Dragon's Breath spell still remains is asinine. Elemental Affinity only give you your Cha mod to damage rolls once on the spells casting. Would giving Dragon's Breath on the DRACONIC SORCERER a max of +5 damage against one target each USE instead of each CASTING really be too unbalanced?
Could somebody, who already have access to the new PHB, write the final origin spell list (per level ) of the Draconic Sorcerer? Or is this already available somewhere?
It's the end of the week and still no sorcerer Article ? Yet the Cleric and Bard were unaffected?
Honestly the two updates I was most interested in was Sorcer and Warlock and both got delayed, why ?
There could be any number of reasons. I used to be an editor for a now defunct comic book website. When we would have guest writers, I had to review everything that went up. Sometimes, I would also be collaborating with publishers/writers/artists to make sure content met their own requirements and desires. This caused delays as well because you are working on their time, not your own.
It could be that the writer was late, it could be that they misunderstood an ability that the editor caught and something had to be revised, or it could be that they accidentally put something in an article that WotC doesn't want revealed yet. There are so many other reasons, it just isn't worth getting upset about. It will be coming eventually.
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Hi guys!
I was reading the article for the Sorcerer, and this phrase got my attention:
And then I remembered something similar for the Ranger:
So now, all spellcasters will have a list of known spells from which they will choose what to prepare after a long rest, similar to Wizards in the 2014 PHB, instead of a fixed number of spells known associated with their level like the Sorcerer or the Ranger in 2014?
EDIT: rewording.
Can someone translate for me I been playing dnd for like 6 years but still a bit confused about prepare and known... So now all spells are prepared but we still have known..? I'm confused
Reading the article it sounds like Sorcerers get 2 metamagics at lvl 2.. than 2 at 10? I hope not.. why repeat the same problem from 2014. Far better option woulda been 2 at 2, 1 at 6 and 1 at 10
As far as I understand, all the classes (except Warlocks, I imagine) will now have a list of known spells, and you can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. (as usual)
This is similar to how Druids, Clerics, Paladins, and Wizards worked in 2014.
However, Druids, Clerics, and Paladins in 2014 had access to the entire spell list. So, I guess that now in 2024, each class will have access to more or fewer spells from their corresponding spell list.
EDIT: To be honest, I'm not sure yet... my previous question was about this...
Think of a wizard. It's basically that with some small differences. You will know a certain number of spells but can only prepare some after finishing a rest. It may be something similar to wizards when it comes to learning spells too; you start with some, then learn some at level up automatically. Of that list of spells you have learned, you can only remember the details of how to cast a certain number a day because spellcasting is so complicated. That is why wizards consult their spellbook every morning; to essentially memorize how to cast the spells they want. Who knows how finding scrolls are going to factor into it just yet.
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I think I'm confused. (perhaps missing context - you're not saying that 2024 Sorcerers are going to have a similar mechanism as Wizards for swapping out spells, right?)
I thought for 2014 5E there were classes that prepared spells daily (after each long rest) like Clerics & Druids, from the complete spell list for their class, and then Wizards are also said to 'prepare spells daily' too, but the mechinism is different: they only prepare spells from those written in their Wizard's Spell book. And then Classes with Spells Known, like Sorerers and Bards, they can't change out spells after each long rest but rather are only able swap out one spell each time they level up.
In the 2014 5E cantrips origianlly couldn't be swapped out, and then by optional rules "Cantrip Versatility" from Tasha'scan only one can be swaped out at specific level up events (Levels when you get an ability score increase or feat).
I think for 2024 edtion, one Cantrip can be swapped out at each leveling up event, (I'm not sure if that's in addition to or instead of a leveled spell, for classes that have Known Spells). I'm not sure if there is anything else that we have been told about possible changes in rules for swappinig out leveled spells, but I might have missed something related to that.
I believe when they say that all spellcasters now "prepare" spells, they just mean that they've standardized the terminology used to talk about spellcasting. For the most part, all classes get their spells the same way they did in 2014 (besides Rangers/Paladins) but if you're a spontaneous caster (Bard/Sorcerer) you "prepare" new spells as you level up and can swap one you already prepared each level. I believe Rangers and Paladins now "prepare" each level BUT they can swap one single spell after each long rest.
I will be honest, it is entirely possible I misunderstood the information given and I don't want to mislead, but from what I heard in the preview of the 2024 casters, all the spellcasters prepare spells for the day from a curated selection of the entire class spell list. For example at level up, a cleric/druid/sorcerer has the entire class list to choose new spells from, but they can only select x amount of new ones to have prepared and can swap when certain conditions are met, like a level up or a long rest.
This is only based on previews though, so it may not be painting a full or accurate picture. If you want to review for yourself though, Tarodnet comment cites the sources that gave me my current understanding; the 2024 Ranger vs. 2014 Ranger article:
This would be a departure from the 2014 rules. After having slept on it, maybe every class is now more similar to the 2014 cleric and druid, rather than the 2014 wizard. I guess we will see in two months.
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From the Sorcerer article:
“The Sorcerer’s Spellcasting feature grants you more spells and flexibility, and has seen some slight tweaks to nomenclature.
First, everybody "prepares" spells now. But this change is a stylistic one for the Sorcerer. You still edit your spell list when you level up and can only change one spell on your list at a time.”
So, my reading of this is that the process of generating and changing the Sorcerer’s list of spells they have ready to cast works like it did, but it’s now called “preparing”. It looks like a character’s list of spells is now called their “prepared” spells, regardless of class.
I have the same feeling as @Erik_Soong. It would be nice to get some clarification from the staff in one of the articles, or we can just wait for the printed books 😅
I'm 99% sure the whole "sorcerers prepare spells now" is simply a terminology thing. Sorcerers prepare every spell they know, so it's not like they even have the ability to swap out spells on a long rest, since there's nothing to swap out. It's not like other classes that know more spells than they can prepare, like the wizard or cleric. That's what I got from the article and videos on it anyway.
Clerics & Druids know their entire list, and can prepare a subset of that on LR.
Wizards know a subset of their entire list (what's in their spell book), and can prepare a subset of that on LR.
Sorcerers know a subset of their entire list (the spells they choose on level up), and prepare all of them all the time.
This.
And unifying the terminology makes sense, because it makes it easy for other things that give you spells - like your species, or subclass, or feats, or even magic items - to all work the same way. Say you're a wizard who loses their spellbook, now you don't have to wonder which spells in the old book they "knew" or not to transfer over - they can simply transfer any prepared wizard spells to the new one, and those can include wizard spells they have prepared from other sources besides leveling up.
After reading this post, it does make a lot of sense. Thank you for correcting my misunderstanding.
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Some open questions now that I've had some time to digest it all, talk through some things, and comparing with what I have in my UA notes (specifically on draconic sorcerers since that's most pertinent to my interests at the moment, but also on the sorc in general):
1. Font of Magic. There was no talk in either the video or the article on the UA change to Font of Magic action economy. In the UA, turning spell slots into sorcery points was a free action (BA in 2014). In the video, JC quickly went from describing FoM as being able to change SP into Spell Slots and vise versa to SP's usage for MM (the signature ability of the entire class) with no mention of that change. Hopefully this was just an omission, and not a reversion back to 2014.
2. The Draconic Sorcerer Spell List. We have about half (?) of them at this point? Curious what the rest are.
3. Dragon Speech at level 3. There was no talk of this. The latest UA had the text amended to make it seem even more like a magical ability (all creatures of the "Dragon" type can understand your speech) than a skill, though "speak, read, and write Draconic" - period - was still there. If I had my way, I would add a bit of flavor to that text just to drive the point home: you don't actually know the language, but the magic within you allows you communicate with any dragon type whether it's through spoken or written words. For all intents and purposes you "know" the Draconic language without actually knowing it. In other words, you couldn't teach someone the language, or communicate in Draconic with someone who is not a dragon type. The only problem this creates in my mind is that you could not, then, communicate with other draconic sorcerers using Draconic.
4. Dragon Wings. All we know is that they are given earlier, and are no longer effectively permanent. Originally at level 14, "earlier" could be a lot of different levels (though my guess would be somewhere around 10 or even earlier, depending on how long they last).
5. Draconic Presence. No mention of this at all, but it can't remain unchanged from 2014. For starters, summoning your dragon companion for free (and no concentration!) was mentioned as the new subclass capstone, which would replace this. But they never talked about getting rid of it. That leads me to believe that it's still there somewhere, but earlier in the progression. Perhaps it's the new level 14 ability? It's a perfectly reasonable ability and does tie into the subclass, in a way, but I think it was universally despised as a level 18 ability that you needed to spend 5 SP on.
Last thoughts:
There was some talk on the discord on whether the spell lists added onto the already significantly increased prepared spells the 2024 sorcs get, or if they were merely part of that increase. I'm thinking it's the latter, meaning that the number of spells you choose per level is roughly the same as before, but you just get a bunch of freebies on top of that.
And then there's twinned spell... I'm under the impression that most people think the name of the MM should have been changed with what's been presented to us as the rework, but there was one person on the discord that almost convinced me that perhaps it was left that way on purpose. Their rationale was that every example they've given so far of how the new twinned works has been upcasting a one-target spell to two (you know... effectively "twinning" it). For example, upcasting Hold Person from level 2 to level 3. Under this assumption, you could NOT - for example - cast it at level 4 (targeting 3) and spend a SP to upcast it at level 5 (targeting 4). Now, of course, the latest text from the UA has no mention of this restriction, and they never specifically called it out as only going from 1 target to 2, and I don't know the spell lists well enough to know how much of a nerf from the UA this would be, but I found it to be an interesting argument. At the end of the day, that person is either going to be correct, or pleasantly surprised in August.
I agree. The wild magic table needs some serious changes to justify the zero bonus spells because right now that table is pathetic. Also the surge would need to happen much more frequently than it does now
Both of those things appear to be true, though. So at least there's hope.
I know it's too late to give feedback that will change in the PHB, but the fact that the interaction between the Draconic Sorcerer and the Dragon's Breath spell still remains is asinine. Elemental Affinity only give you your Cha mod to damage rolls once on the spells casting. Would giving Dragon's Breath on the DRACONIC SORCERER a max of +5 damage against one target each USE instead of each CASTING really be too unbalanced?
Could somebody, who already have access to the new PHB, write the final origin spell list (per level ) of the Draconic Sorcerer? Or is this already available somewhere?