The timing of their departure was also deliberate, as both waited for the newly revised core rulebooks to come out before leaving the D&D team. "They wanted to make sure that [the core rulebooks were really successful, that they were setting up all of the future leads for success," Lanzillo said. "That has happened, and they feel really reassured that the folks in place will be able to carry on with the wonderful legacy that they've given us, and then bring their own stuff to the table, which they've already been doing."
Screen Rant also confirmed with Lanzillo that both Perkins and Crawford's departures were on their terms and not part of some wider corporate move. "It's one of those things where you finished a major keystone creative project and you do ask yourself, 'Okay, do I have the next one in me for right now? Do I want to do something a little bit different?'" Lanzillo said. "I think any creative can identify with that."
I read it, not sure I buy what's being sold.
Yep, but when the "conspiracy" is proven true it's just crickets and/or spin. Time will tell if it is or is not a conspiracy, if it isn't just look under the the lumpy rug.
I'd just like to point out that in recent years in the video game industry there's been a strong trend of publishers having mass firings after a new game is released regardless of whether it's a flop or a hit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think it's likely a broad combination of things, including the official story. Perkins and Crawford are close to my age, I think, and thus either eyeing the next phase of life and work or, at the very least, maybe wanting to try something different from what they've been doing for decades. Plus, as folks have pointed out, designers departing after a major release isn't out of the ordinary. And I imagine the next few years for D&D would feel pretty repetitious to both of them.
Having said all that, I also find it really easy to imagine that all of the corporate shenanigans of the last 2+ years probably wore them down. I think we've seen repeated, ample evidence of a very large divide between business executives and creatives at WOTC and Hasbro - a divide in which the executives have continued to make unforced errors and not provide the resources and support needed.
I think it's likely a broad combination of things, including the official story. Perkins and Crawford are close to my age, I think, and thus either eyeing the next phase of life and work or, at the very least, maybe wanting to try something different from what they've been doing for decades. Plus, as folks have pointed out, designers departing after a major release isn't out of the ordinary. And I imagine the next few years for D&D would feel pretty repetitious to both of them.
Having said all that, I also find it really easy to imagine that all of the corporate shenanigans of the last 2+ years probably wore them down. I think we've seen repeated, ample evidence of a very large divide between business executives and creatives at WOTC and Hasbro - a divide in which the executives have continued to make unforced errors and not provide the resources and support needed.
I could see that as being part of their decision, but let's not forget how the D&D community has treated them. Every time people call the 2024 rules a "Dumpster Fire" or "Waste of Money" or anything else negative, that is a comment on them and the hard work that the did. I would never want to work in a place where I have to deal with either situation.
I could see that as being part of their decision, but let's not forget how the D&D community has treated them. Every time people call the 2024 rules a "Dumpster Fire" or "Waste of Money" or anything else negative, that is a comment on them and the hard work that the did. I would never want to work in a place where I have to deal with either situation.
I was at a comic con years 10 or 15 ago and I remember Dan Slott once said something in response to some feedback someone gave him on his Spider-Man work, which, at the time, was not well-received. I can't remember the exact words anymore but to paraphrase: "There is nothing more rewarding than the fans and there is nothing more loathsome than the fans."
I found the story today, and now this thread. It's sad to see both of them leaving. I knew about Chris Perkins, but as Lia said: "I was not expecting this".
I really admire the work both of them did for the industry and for D&D in particular. I'll miss them, but I'm sure the current and future team will care just as deeply about this wonderful game. Best of luck, and Heroic Inspiration to WotC!
Thanks to Jeremy & Chris for all the passionate hard work for D&D over the years!
And welcome back to D&D Greg Bilsland! During his last tenure at WoTC i worked with him as Rules Advisor and D&D Playtester and i'm glad to see him back!
D&D 6E to be really a different thing than the 5E.
That's not going to be entirely up to the design team. Business execs within WOTC and Hasbro will likely have the final word, and when we do get 6E, it's going to be because they're confident no more money can be squeezed from the 2024 or 2014 rules sets.
That sounds really critical but it's not meant to be completely so. Hasbro is a for-profit company and it's ultimately unrealistic (and perhaps unfair) to expect them to make altruistic decisions. And as much as I think D&D 2024 gets right, the more time passes, the more I think they really should have stripped the car all the way down to the chassis and done a complete rebuild.
No, but they do need to read the market better than they have been. They're trying to go far too hard at monetization to the point many people are becoming more and more willing to jump ship and try a different system. They need to find a happier medium of cost/product.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
No, but they do need to read the market better than they have been. They're trying to go far too hard at monetization to the point many people are becoming more and more willing to jump ship and try a different system. They need to find a happier medium of cost/product.
I think you're overstating the impact of the monetization issues. Literally the only thing they've tried that isn't a "do you want fries with that?" secondary product is cutting a la carte on Beyond, and that doesn't seem to have kept the new core books from selling extremely well.
Removing bundle discounts stacking with sale prices was a huge slap in the face considering wizbro themselves marketed it as a reason to buy the bundles. Sure removal of the bundles was cool, but taking away the marketed discount stacking from those that bought them not so much! At least they are making more money?
I was, and I am hopeful that the path they took on D&D will be curbed. The only bright thing, was bringing back the Greyhawk. Now if they would just hire guys who want to bring the world back to the happier era of 1e. 👍
I was, and I am hopeful that the path they took on D&D will be curbed. The only bright thing, was bringing back the Greyhawk. Now if they would just hire guys who want to bring the world back to the happier era of 1e. 👍
Since they brought back Greg Bilsland who worked to develop 4e and 5e, I am going to guess that D&D isn't going to go back to 1e very soon.
I was, and I am hopeful that the path they took on D&D will be curbed. The only bright thing, was bringing back the Greyhawk. Now if they would just hire guys who want to bring the world back to the happier era of 1e. 👍
Since they brought back Greg Bilsland who worked to develop 4e and 5e, I am going to guess that D&D isn't going to go back to 1e very soon.
You misunderstood me. I never said go back to 1e for the rules and what not. I said the era.
But whatever happens, it will be better without Crawford.
I was, and I am hopeful that the path they took on D&D will be curbed. The only bright thing, was bringing back the Greyhawk. Now if they would just hire guys who want to bring the world back to the happier era of 1e. 👍
Since they brought back Greg Bilsland who worked to develop 4e and 5e, I am going to guess that D&D isn't going to go back to 1e very soon.
You misunderstood me. I never said go back to 1e as for as rules and what not. I said the era.
But whatever happens, it will be better without Crawford.
What we really need is not a return to 1e, but something new, that takes the best elements of D&D and makes it clear that players can play whatever type of game they want…. Which… is exactly what 5.24’s DMG does. This iteration’s DMG explicitly walks through different styles of play (such as high risk deadly campaigns of 1e and low risk ones of more modern audiences), and makes it clear that whatever game works for you and your players is what you should play.
You know where that “play the game you want to play” philosophy comes from? The original DMG, which makes a lot of the same points the 5.24 DMG does. Just the 5.24 version does so while removing the vile elements of early D&D, bringing forward the best elements of 1e, without also including the worst elements (remember, the original DMG has an entire discourse on “what if Hitler was hot” - surely we can all agree that element of 1e need not be brought back).
In a lot of ways, you actually are getting exactly what you want - the 5.24 book has a lot of AD&D and other early D&D elements explicitly built into its design. If you gave it a chance and read it, you might find that the “old school style of play” is explicitly encouraged and supported… just not the gross parts.
Crawford did that for us, and he should be thanked for that. He certainly was a better custodian of the game than Gygax.
Not for nothing, but without Gygax there would be no D&D as we know it. Can we judge his personal beliefs and influence on the game, sure. However to think for one second we'd be playing let alone discussing this game as we are able to without his influence is laughable at best. I challenge you to justify otherwise!!
Crawford would not have had anything without Gygax!
People's opinions of Gygax are their own and they're entitled to them but understating the man's role is profoundly disrespectful.
Neither Crawford nor Perkins himself would ever do that. He knows without Gygax he'd be without the hobby to which he has devoted so much of his life.
This trend to understate Gygax's role is like a modern guitar player understating the importance of pioneering guitarists just because he is not of fan of the blues.
Yep, but when the "conspiracy" is proven true it's just crickets and/or spin. Time will tell if it is or is not a conspiracy, if it isn't just look under the the lumpy rug.
I'd just like to point out that in recent years in the video game industry there's been a strong trend of publishers having mass firings after a new game is released regardless of whether it's a flop or a hit.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think it's likely a broad combination of things, including the official story. Perkins and Crawford are close to my age, I think, and thus either eyeing the next phase of life and work or, at the very least, maybe wanting to try something different from what they've been doing for decades. Plus, as folks have pointed out, designers departing after a major release isn't out of the ordinary. And I imagine the next few years for D&D would feel pretty repetitious to both of them.
Having said all that, I also find it really easy to imagine that all of the corporate shenanigans of the last 2+ years probably wore them down. I think we've seen repeated, ample evidence of a very large divide between business executives and creatives at WOTC and Hasbro - a divide in which the executives have continued to make unforced errors and not provide the resources and support needed.
I could see that as being part of their decision, but let's not forget how the D&D community has treated them. Every time people call the 2024 rules a "Dumpster Fire" or "Waste of Money" or anything else negative, that is a comment on them and the hard work that the did. I would never want to work in a place where I have to deal with either situation.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I was at a comic con years 10 or 15 ago and I remember Dan Slott once said something in response to some feedback someone gave him on his Spider-Man work, which, at the time, was not well-received. I can't remember the exact words anymore but to paraphrase: "There is nothing more rewarding than the fans and there is nothing more loathsome than the fans."
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I found the story today, and now this thread. It's sad to see both of them leaving. I knew about Chris Perkins, but as Lia said: "I was not expecting this".
I really admire the work both of them did for the industry and for D&D in particular. I'll miss them, but I'm sure the current and future team will care just as deeply about this wonderful game. Best of luck, and Heroic Inspiration to WotC!
Thanks to Jeremy & Chris for all the passionate hard work for D&D over the years!
And welcome back to D&D Greg Bilsland! During his last tenure at WoTC i worked with him as Rules Advisor and D&D Playtester and i'm glad to see him back!
Is not a bad thing by itself. For them to face a new project (good luck to both) and so D&D 6E to be really a different thing than the 5E.
That's not going to be entirely up to the design team. Business execs within WOTC and Hasbro will likely have the final word, and when we do get 6E, it's going to be because they're confident no more money can be squeezed from the 2024 or 2014 rules sets.
That sounds really critical but it's not meant to be completely so. Hasbro is a for-profit company and it's ultimately unrealistic (and perhaps unfair) to expect them to make altruistic decisions. And as much as I think D&D 2024 gets right, the more time passes, the more I think they really should have stripped the car all the way down to the chassis and done a complete rebuild.
No, but they do need to read the market better than they have been. They're trying to go far too hard at monetization to the point many people are becoming more and more willing to jump ship and try a different system. They need to find a happier medium of cost/product.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
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I think you're overstating the impact of the monetization issues. Literally the only thing they've tried that isn't a "do you want fries with that?" secondary product is cutting a la carte on Beyond, and that doesn't seem to have kept the new core books from selling extremely well.
Removing bundle discounts stacking with sale prices was a huge slap in the face considering wizbro themselves marketed it as a reason to buy the bundles. Sure removal of the bundles was cool, but taking away the marketed discount stacking from those that bought them not so much! At least they are making more money?
I was, and I am hopeful that the path they took on D&D will be curbed. The only bright thing, was bringing back the Greyhawk. Now if they would just hire guys who want to bring the world back to the happier era of 1e. 👍
Since they brought back Greg Bilsland who worked to develop 4e and 5e, I am going to guess that D&D isn't going to go back to 1e very soon.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
You misunderstood me. I never said go back to 1e for the rules and what not. I said the era.
But whatever happens, it will be better without Crawford.
Ok, so what is the "1e era" then?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
What we really need is not a return to 1e, but something new, that takes the best elements of D&D and makes it clear that players can play whatever type of game they want…. Which… is exactly what 5.24’s DMG does. This iteration’s DMG explicitly walks through different styles of play (such as high risk deadly campaigns of 1e and low risk ones of more modern audiences), and makes it clear that whatever game works for you and your players is what you should play.
You know where that “play the game you want to play” philosophy comes from? The original DMG, which makes a lot of the same points the 5.24 DMG does. Just the 5.24 version does so while removing the vile elements of early D&D, bringing forward the best elements of 1e, without also including the worst elements (remember, the original DMG has an entire discourse on “what if Hitler was hot” - surely we can all agree that element of 1e need not be brought back).
In a lot of ways, you actually are getting exactly what you want - the 5.24 book has a lot of AD&D and other early D&D elements explicitly built into its design. If you gave it a chance and read it, you might find that the “old school style of play” is explicitly encouraged and supported… just not the gross parts.
Crawford did that for us, and he should be thanked for that. He certainly was a better custodian of the game than Gygax.
Not for nothing, but without Gygax there would be no D&D as we know it. Can we judge his personal beliefs and influence on the game, sure. However to think for one second we'd be playing let alone discussing this game as we are able to without his influence is laughable at best. I challenge you to justify otherwise!!
Crawford would not have had anything without Gygax!
People's opinions of Gygax are their own and they're entitled to them but understating the man's role is profoundly disrespectful.
Neither Crawford nor Perkins himself would ever do that. He knows without Gygax he'd be without the hobby to which he has devoted so much of his life.
This trend to understate Gygax's role is like a modern guitar player understating the importance of pioneering guitarists just because he is not of fan of the blues.
[Redacted]