My char in my campaign is chaotic evil, but im looking for ways to help defend party members with her alignment in mind. any tips and tidbits more experienced players would care to share? the party is generally CN and CG. my char tends to keep her distance but wont let someone die if it means she could survive an ordeal. shes very aggressive (not towards party in serious cases) but shes not the kill on sight chaotic evil
So she's not a murder hobo - that's a good start! Chaotic evil does not mean chaotic stupid and doesn't have to mean psychopathic, either - she could just be selfish and have no empathy. If she's aligned herself with this party, it makes sense she would work towards their interests as long as it a) serves her own, and b) doesn't put her in the way of unnecessary harm or loss. She may not particularly value the lives of the party out of empathy, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't grow attached to one or all of them (unless she's a sociopath) - perhaps there's some room for character growth there. Or perhaps she'll happily betray them at an opportune time to further her own interests. Of course, none of that stops her from making questioning moral choices, filching from the treasure hoard, etc. I think you could have a lot of fun with her if you play her smart, but evil characters are hard to get right.
Since most of your party is chaotic, I'd focus on the chaotic aspects of the character: not LOLrandom (that's not chaotic) but Robin-Hood-ish. She can fight against oppression alongside the other characters...she'll just be more than happy to cruelly murder any oppressors she comes across. A chaotic evil character can still have specific people they hate and fight against, like orcs or evil empires. The difference between her and a good character is that hatred, unlike justice, has no reason or limit beyond self-preservation. Watching the people she hates, NOT the party or innocent civilians, brings her joy, and so she's out to make sure they suffer as much as possible, with the party, as she sees it, helping her out. Think Joker in the recent movie...he's not out to murder everyone he comes across, he just wants to see the rich and haughty get what they deserve. There's just no limit to the horrible things he's willing and happy to do to them, as there would be for a good character.
90% of my oc's are evil varied from chaotic neutral to chaotic evil. so all this advice is helping me with all my characters since a large handful is CE. ty to all that help and add on
Creative logic... Chaotic can have reasons that make sense only in the moment.
Saw an adventure where the tiefling stated she'll throw herself in front of a blast to protect the flammable party members. She stopped and said, "Wait. Why would I do that?"
After one aww-inspiring (not awe-inspiring) nice suggestion, ("No," she replied) she decided that she wanted their stuff undamaged in case they died in a less destructive way later so she could have it.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I would not worry too much about what your alignment specifically is. It is not a mechanical element of D&D and only exists as a roleplay aide. There was a post I saw describing alignment on social media which I found incredibly useful
Lawful: Rules matter more to me than individuals Chaotic: Individuals matter more to me than rules Good: Other people's well-being is more important than my own Evil: My own well-being is more important than other people's Neutral: My opinion of whats important is determined on a case-by-case basis.
In this case, Chaotic Evil is "Screw the rules and screw you." Such a person would still be inclined to have associates, especially if they help enrich you or stick it to the man.
First of all, alignment is supposed to be descriptive, not perscriptive. You can have two chaotic evil characters who are very dissimilar in worldview. If you want to think of the four axis, I think it's better to talk about their ideals and I think that applies to evil as a philosophy. I've written here before on the problem with D&D as presenting a nuanced ethical system. It doesn't and isn't meant to. Alignments mean different things depending on what they are describing. However, a good rule of thumb is like what Houligan wrote, but I disagree with those assessments.
I would argue that the chief ideals of the alignments are:
Lawful - Honour Chaotic - Freedom Good - Alturism Evil - Individualism (or maybe understand it as self-empowerment) Neutrality - Balance
Now, this would mean that we can read Chaotic Evil not necessarily as someone who kills indiscriminately, but as a person who doesn't really recognise other people as legitimate people. They can be someone who is uncompromising and unwilling to accept any impedement to their person freedom, no matter how reasonable. I think how demons were described on an article for Descent into Avernus puts it well how Chaotic Evil can be, maybe if it is toned down: just extremely soliciptic.
I would argue that playing evil is the dumbest thing an evil character can do. If you are surrounded by people who find you metaphysically objectional the worst thing you could do is wear that on a t-shirt. You hide, so you can live to fight another day. You behave more good than good so that those fools will let you be and not suspect your real motivations. Evil in a good party or society should bide its time and wait until it has a "checkmate" before it makes a single evil move. Beasts get put down. So you can't be a beast.
My dream player is one with a Chaotic Evil PC but otherwise acts noble and true and cooperative with the group and very helpful. They'd be somebody SOOO evil that they never show any indication of it ever in their actions. They'd otherwise act like a reasonable, rational Lawful Good or Neutral Good... but in their heart of hearts...
I'm unconvinced that many people have ever really pulled this off, but surely it must have. A player's devotion to Chaotic and Evil over group cohesion and playing the game collaboratively are just some of the most sure fire ways I've personally witnessed to torpedo a whole campaign.
My advice is to not think "but this is what my character would do!" and just focus on being an asset to the party. Teamwork makes the dream work!!!1
A question for my more supportive Evils. how would i go about playing the evil healer class. most of my supportive chars (around 6) are lawful evil. 1 is CE (who im really asking for) and 2 are NE
There's nothing that says an evil character can't have friends. If you look at fiction (movies, books, games, etc.) there are characters who are definitely or even unforgivably evil that still have friends and loved ones. In that case their well-being is one of your character's interests and in some interpretations of alignment being chaotic evil means being focused on your interests without concern for the well-being of others (probably innocent townfolk and the like) or the law.
So to me at least a chaotic evil character would be completely willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill to ensure the health and well-being of the people they care about.
That said you could also be willing to heal the rest of the party because you're working to the same ends. That's just pragmatic.
What is chaotic evil? To break it down into it's parts, chaotic is one that doesn't give two hoots about what the law says. You do what you want. Most folks tend to rate evil as lacking in empathy and selfish (although I tend to believe that's more neutral) So, you do what you want AND those things benefit you. The party helps you advance your desires, so it behooves you to help them. You just don't care what means are used for that, if innocents suffer? So be it. Collateral damage is collateral damage. Honor? pfft. Fight dirty, fight to win.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Simply put, greed. Red dragons are chaotic evil and even they can have minions that they will take steps to protect, if only because they are useful. Beyond that chaotic evil people can value their lessers as property and safeguard them to prevent others from stealing them or otherwise depriving the character of them. You don't defend them because you care for them as people, you do so because they're YOURS and nobody is going to take them from you.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
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My char in my campaign is chaotic evil, but im looking for ways to help defend party members with her alignment in mind. any tips and tidbits more experienced players would care to share? the party is generally CN and CG. my char tends to keep her distance but wont let someone die if it means she could survive an ordeal. shes very aggressive (not towards party in serious cases) but shes not the kill on sight chaotic evil
My Spells, My Races, My Magic Items, My Monsters, My Subclasses,
So she's not a murder hobo - that's a good start! Chaotic evil does not mean chaotic stupid and doesn't have to mean psychopathic, either - she could just be selfish and have no empathy. If she's aligned herself with this party, it makes sense she would work towards their interests as long as it a) serves her own, and b) doesn't put her in the way of unnecessary harm or loss. She may not particularly value the lives of the party out of empathy, but that doesn't mean she wouldn't grow attached to one or all of them (unless she's a sociopath) - perhaps there's some room for character growth there. Or perhaps she'll happily betray them at an opportune time to further her own interests. Of course, none of that stops her from making questioning moral choices, filching from the treasure hoard, etc. I think you could have a lot of fun with her if you play her smart, but evil characters are hard to get right.
Since most of your party is chaotic, I'd focus on the chaotic aspects of the character: not LOLrandom (that's not chaotic) but Robin-Hood-ish. She can fight against oppression alongside the other characters...she'll just be more than happy to cruelly murder any oppressors she comes across. A chaotic evil character can still have specific people they hate and fight against, like orcs or evil empires. The difference between her and a good character is that hatred, unlike justice, has no reason or limit beyond self-preservation. Watching the people she hates, NOT the party or innocent civilians, brings her joy, and so she's out to make sure they suffer as much as possible, with the party, as she sees it, helping her out. Think Joker in the recent movie...he's not out to murder everyone he comes across, he just wants to see the rich and haughty get what they deserve. There's just no limit to the horrible things he's willing and happy to do to them, as there would be for a good character.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
90% of my oc's are evil varied from chaotic neutral to chaotic evil. so all this advice is helping me with all my characters since a large handful is CE. ty to all that help and add on
My Spells, My Races, My Magic Items, My Monsters, My Subclasses,
Creative logic... Chaotic can have reasons that make sense only in the moment.
Saw an adventure where the tiefling stated she'll throw herself in front of a blast to protect the flammable party members. She stopped and said, "Wait. Why would I do that?"
After one aww-inspiring (not awe-inspiring) nice suggestion, ("No," she replied) she decided that she wanted their stuff undamaged in case they died in a less destructive way later so she could have it.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I would not worry too much about what your alignment specifically is. It is not a mechanical element of D&D and only exists as a roleplay aide. There was a post I saw describing alignment on social media which I found incredibly useful
Lawful: Rules matter more to me than individuals
Chaotic: Individuals matter more to me than rules
Good: Other people's well-being is more important than my own
Evil: My own well-being is more important than other people's
Neutral: My opinion of whats important is determined on a case-by-case basis.
In this case, Chaotic Evil is "Screw the rules and screw you." Such a person would still be inclined to have associates, especially if they help enrich you or stick it to the man.
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First of all, alignment is supposed to be descriptive, not perscriptive. You can have two chaotic evil characters who are very dissimilar in worldview. If you want to think of the four axis, I think it's better to talk about their ideals and I think that applies to evil as a philosophy. I've written here before on the problem with D&D as presenting a nuanced ethical system. It doesn't and isn't meant to. Alignments mean different things depending on what they are describing. However, a good rule of thumb is like what Houligan wrote, but I disagree with those assessments.
I would argue that the chief ideals of the alignments are:
Lawful - Honour
Chaotic - Freedom
Good - Alturism
Evil - Individualism (or maybe understand it as self-empowerment)
Neutrality - Balance
Now, this would mean that we can read Chaotic Evil not necessarily as someone who kills indiscriminately, but as a person who doesn't really recognise other people as legitimate people. They can be someone who is uncompromising and unwilling to accept any impedement to their person freedom, no matter how reasonable. I think how demons were described on an article for Descent into Avernus puts it well how Chaotic Evil can be, maybe if it is toned down: just extremely soliciptic.
I would argue that playing evil is the dumbest thing an evil character can do. If you are surrounded by people who find you metaphysically objectional the worst thing you could do is wear that on a t-shirt. You hide, so you can live to fight another day. You behave more good than good so that those fools will let you be and not suspect your real motivations. Evil in a good party or society should bide its time and wait until it has a "checkmate" before it makes a single evil move. Beasts get put down. So you can't be a beast.
My dream player is one with a Chaotic Evil PC but otherwise acts noble and true and cooperative with the group and very helpful. They'd be somebody SOOO evil that they never show any indication of it ever in their actions. They'd otherwise act like a reasonable, rational Lawful Good or Neutral Good... but in their heart of hearts...
I'm unconvinced that many people have ever really pulled this off, but surely it must have. A player's devotion to Chaotic and Evil over group cohesion and playing the game collaboratively are just some of the most sure fire ways I've personally witnessed to torpedo a whole campaign.
My advice is to not think "but this is what my character would do!" and just focus on being an asset to the party. Teamwork makes the dream work!!!1
A question for my more supportive Evils. how would i go about playing the evil healer class. most of my supportive chars (around 6) are lawful evil. 1 is CE (who im really asking for) and 2 are NE
My Spells, My Races, My Magic Items, My Monsters, My Subclasses,
There's nothing that says an evil character can't have friends. If you look at fiction (movies, books, games, etc.) there are characters who are definitely or even unforgivably evil that still have friends and loved ones. In that case their well-being is one of your character's interests and in some interpretations of alignment being chaotic evil means being focused on your interests without concern for the well-being of others (probably innocent townfolk and the like) or the law.
So to me at least a chaotic evil character would be completely willing to lie, cheat, steal, and kill to ensure the health and well-being of the people they care about.
That said you could also be willing to heal the rest of the party because you're working to the same ends. That's just pragmatic.
honestly the best answer i could have looked for. thanks
My Spells, My Races, My Magic Items, My Monsters, My Subclasses,
What is chaotic evil? To break it down into it's parts, chaotic is one that doesn't give two hoots about what the law says. You do what you want. Most folks tend to rate evil as lacking in empathy and selfish (although I tend to believe that's more neutral) So, you do what you want AND those things benefit you. The party helps you advance your desires, so it behooves you to help them. You just don't care what means are used for that, if innocents suffer? So be it. Collateral damage is collateral damage. Honor? pfft. Fight dirty, fight to win.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Simply put, greed. Red dragons are chaotic evil and even they can have minions that they will take steps to protect, if only because they are useful. Beyond that chaotic evil people can value their lessers as property and safeguard them to prevent others from stealing them or otherwise depriving the character of them. You don't defend them because you care for them as people, you do so because they're YOURS and nobody is going to take them from you.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!