There are worlds (such as Eberron and Exandria) where gnolls are not feral, demonic monsters, and are instead sentient humanoids like all other species.
But in Forgotten Realms, they are basically borderline sentient creatures who's entire existence is rooted in their primal hyena instincts to hunt and kill.
I know, but the Forgotten Realms shouldn't prevent a gnoll PC from existing in other worlds.
I didn't say that it should...
Sorry, I thought you were saying that gnolls shouldn't be playable because they aren't really typical "humanoids" in the Forgotten Realms.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
There are worlds (such as Eberron and Exandria) where gnolls are not feral, demonic monsters, and are instead sentient humanoids like all other species.
But in Forgotten Realms, they are basically borderline sentient creatures who's entire existence is rooted in their primal hyena instincts to hunt and kill.
I know, but the Forgotten Realms shouldn't prevent a gnoll PC from existing in other worlds.
I didn't say that it should...
Sorry, I thought you were saying that gnolls shouldn't be playable because they aren't really typical "humanoids" in the Forgotten Realms.
It's ok, misunderstandings happen. To clarify, I wasn't saying that if they aren't typical humanoids in the Forgotten Realms then they shouldn't be elsewhere, but that they would be hard to play in the Forgotten Realms.
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All stars fade. Some stars forever fall. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Homebrew:Magic Items,Monsters,Spells,Subclasses ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
There are worlds (such as Eberron and Exandria) where gnolls are not feral, demonic monsters, and are instead sentient humanoids like all other species.
But in Forgotten Realms, they are basically borderline sentient creatures who's entire existence is rooted in their primal hyena instincts to hunt and kill.
I know, but the Forgotten Realms shouldn't prevent a gnoll PC from existing in other worlds.
I didn't say that it should...
Sorry, I thought you were saying that gnolls shouldn't be playable because they aren't really typical "humanoids" in the Forgotten Realms.
It's ok, misunderstandings happen. To clarify, I wasn't saying that if they aren't typical humanoids in the Forgotten Realms then they shouldn't be elsewhere, but that they would be hard to play in the Forgotten Realms.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but in the forgotten reason aren’t most under the strong and almost unbreakable influence of yeenoghu?
There are worlds (such as Eberron and Exandria) where gnolls are not feral, demonic monsters, and are instead sentient humanoids like all other species.
But in Forgotten Realms, they are basically borderline sentient creatures who's entire existence is rooted in their primal hyena instincts to hunt and kill.
I know, but the Forgotten Realms shouldn't prevent a gnoll PC from existing in other worlds.
I didn't say that it should...
Sorry, I thought you were saying that gnolls shouldn't be playable because they aren't really typical "humanoids" in the Forgotten Realms.
It's ok, misunderstandings happen. To clarify, I wasn't saying that if they aren't typical humanoids in the Forgotten Realms then they shouldn't be elsewhere, but that they would be hard to play in the Forgotten Realms.
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but in the forgotten reason aren’t most under the strong and almost unbreakable influence of yeenoghu?
Not to my knowledge. I believe they're just fanatically devoted to Yeenoghu; as far as I'm aware, based on what I've read over the past couple days in order to take part in this discussion, what drives them is their "supernatural hunger" which is imparted unto them by Yeenoghu (this does certainly seem to be written such that it could be considered an "unbreakable influence", though). Other than that, they don't seem to be controlled in any "I have power over your mind and command you to follow my instructions" kind of way.
I'm currently playing a gnoll barbarian in Out of the Abyss. He's from clan blackfang and is CN. He is an outcast and highly intelligent for a gnoll (Int 11), and he believes that all other gnolls and Yeenoghu deserve to die by his hand in order to clear the universe of the fools that punished him. So I think that gnolls are playable.
Drow weren't seen as viable PCs either until Drizzt existed. In worlds where gods can directly intervene in affairs, there's no reason a gnoll couldn't be redeemed by a higher power and invested in a soul or compassion or whatever else they may lack in that particular settings lore. People love to play that kind of trope, proving that your heritage doesn't determine who you are.
At any rate, seems not difficult to reskin an existing race. Orc or Leonin seem well-suited. Or if I were to combine the two I'd probably use Leonin with Aggressive instead of Daunting Roar.
I think the reason Gnolls in Forgotten Realms were written to be irredeemably evil and impossible to reason with was just so that DM's could have a humanoid, passably intelligent race that was capable of being cunning or clever, but which the players can relentlessly slaughter at first sight with no moral quandary. Goblins, Orcs, Kobolds, and all the other "monster" races have been gradually expanded on and have a lot of sympathetic examples either in the game or in other media that makes players feel bad sometimes about fighting them.
one way gnolls are created is by hyenas eating dead gnolls and gnoll victims - becoming bloated to the point they burst open into new gnolls. Maybe a hyena ate a couple dead gnolls and maybe a priest/priestess victim...whatever holiness remained in that corpse altered the process and one of the new gnolls that popped out was significantly smarter than your average gnoll and independent minded, without the link to Yeenoghu. ....or it ate a wizard with magic items in its pockets....or ate a druid with some fancy seeds in its pocket...or whatever.
+1 Strength or Constitution score. Crushing Bite. Melee unarmed strike. 1d4 + Strength bludgeoning damage (or improvised piercing damage). Lockjaw. If your bite hits, you can use your bonus action to try grapple. Typically you bite the throat of your prey and lock on until your prey is dead. Carcass Weaponry. Melee or ranged weapon attack. 1d4 + Strength bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage. Gnolls often use the bones and other bodyparts of slain corpses as effective improvised weapons.
DM's Guild have an Ebberon Expanded book or you can download the pdf there is a Gnoll Race section in there it has a stat block and racial abilities just like any official DND book
This is my biggest problem with gnolls in 5e - they shouldn't be humanoids. Humanoid as a type implies that they're "people" much like other humanoids, capable of a variety of emotions and cultures, but their description is 100% in line with the Fiend type. IMO, anything that can have the humanoid type should be on the table for player options and relatable on the "human" level - hence why spells like "charm person", which rely on human-like minds, work. Anything else should be a different type.
People always seem to think Hyenas are Canines, they’re in fact more closely related to cats than dogs but they’re actually neither. Hyenas fall into their own genus Crocuta and their are only five extant members of that genus. The spotted hyena (the hyena everyone thinks of) the striped hyena, the brown hyena, the Hyaeninae, and the Aardwolf. All of them are classified as subfamilies of the family Hyaenidae which is the only family still living within the genus Crocuta.
People always seem to think Hyenas are Canines, they’re in fact more closely related to cats than dogs but they’re actually neither. Hyenas fall into their own genus Crocuta and their are only five extant members of that genus. The spotted hyena (the hyena everyone thinks of) the striped hyena, the brown hyena, the Hyaeninae, and the Aardwolf. All of them are classified as subfamilies of the family Hyaenidae which is the only family still living within the genus Crocuta.
Aardwolves are members of the subfamily Protelinae, not Hyaenidae. And only the spotted hyena is a member of genus Corcuta. There's only four extant species in the hyena family, not five.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Hyenas are Feliforms, not felines. That just means that they're more closely related to cats than to dogs, not that they're cats themselves. They're about as closely related to mongooses and civets as they are to felines, but they're in a taxonomic family by themselves.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This is my biggest problem with gnolls in 5e - they shouldn't be humanoids. Humanoid as a type implies that they're "people" much like other humanoids, capable of a variety of emotions and cultures, but their description is 100% in line with the Fiend type. IMO, anything that can have the humanoid type should be on the table for player options and relatable on the "human" level - hence why spells like "charm person", which rely on human-like minds, work. Anything else should be a different type.
And rabbits are rodents. - point being there’s always exceptions (and pretty much every character is one)
This is my biggest problem with gnolls in 5e - they shouldn't be humanoids. Humanoid as a type implies that they're "people" much like other humanoids, capable of a variety of emotions and cultures, but their description is 100% in line with the Fiend type. IMO, anything that can have the humanoid type should be on the table for player options and relatable on the "human" level - hence why spells like "charm person", which rely on human-like minds, work. Anything else should be a different type.
They ARE people, though. Their creator was a fiend, but that doesn't mean ALL of them have to act like fiends.
Culturally, they are very nomadic and tribal, and many prefer the wilderness to the sorts of civilization that other races like humans and elves and dwarves might live in. But not all of them. Gnolls as a whole have a strong affinity for family and blood ties, as well. They CARE about their families, and their friends, and will even go to war with other gnoll clans who threaten them.
Gnolls are not necessarily evil. They just all suffer from a very primal need to hunt and fight that tends to make them lean towards or be influenced by evil, or chaotic paths. But they are capable of being able to conquer and learn to control those primal urges, and even become pacifists who only fight or hunt for survival or sport.
They are just as capable of being mandalorian-esque noble warriors as they are of being primal, bloodthirsty savages who just want to slaughter everything around them.
This is my biggest problem with gnolls in 5e - they shouldn't be humanoids. Humanoid as a type implies that they're "people" much like other humanoids, capable of a variety of emotions and cultures, but their description is 100% in line with the Fiend type. IMO, anything that can have the humanoid type should be on the table for player options and relatable on the "human" level - hence why spells like "charm person", which rely on human-like minds, work. Anything else should be a different type.
And rabbits are rodents. - point being there’s always exceptions (and pretty much every character is one)
Rabbits aren't rodents.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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Sorry, I thought you were saying that gnolls shouldn't be playable because they aren't really typical "humanoids" in the Forgotten Realms.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
It's ok, misunderstandings happen. To clarify, I wasn't saying that if they aren't typical humanoids in the Forgotten Realms then they shouldn't be elsewhere, but that they would be hard to play in the Forgotten Realms.
All stars fade. Some stars forever fall.
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Homebrew: Magic Items, Monsters, Spells, Subclasses
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If there was no light, people wouldn't fear the dark.
Also
Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but in the forgotten reason aren’t most under the strong and almost unbreakable influence of yeenoghu?
SAUCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not to my knowledge. I believe they're just fanatically devoted to Yeenoghu; as far as I'm aware, based on what I've read over the past couple days in order to take part in this discussion, what drives them is their "supernatural hunger" which is imparted unto them by Yeenoghu (this does certainly seem to be written such that it could be considered an "unbreakable influence", though). Other than that, they don't seem to be controlled in any "I have power over your mind and command you to follow my instructions" kind of way.
I'm currently playing a gnoll barbarian in Out of the Abyss. He's from clan blackfang and is CN. He is an outcast and highly intelligent for a gnoll (Int 11), and he believes that all other gnolls and Yeenoghu deserve to die by his hand in order to clear the universe of the fools that punished him. So I think that gnolls are playable.
Drow weren't seen as viable PCs either until Drizzt existed. In worlds where gods can directly intervene in affairs, there's no reason a gnoll couldn't be redeemed by a higher power and invested in a soul or compassion or whatever else they may lack in that particular settings lore. People love to play that kind of trope, proving that your heritage doesn't determine who you are.
At any rate, seems not difficult to reskin an existing race. Orc or Leonin seem well-suited. Or if I were to combine the two I'd probably use Leonin with Aggressive instead of Daunting Roar.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I think the reason Gnolls in Forgotten Realms were written to be irredeemably evil and impossible to reason with was just so that DM's could have a humanoid, passably intelligent race that was capable of being cunning or clever, but which the players can relentlessly slaughter at first sight with no moral quandary. Goblins, Orcs, Kobolds, and all the other "monster" races have been gradually expanded on and have a lot of sympathetic examples either in the game or in other media that makes players feel bad sometimes about fighting them.
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one way gnolls are created is by hyenas eating dead gnolls and gnoll victims - becoming bloated to the point they burst open into new gnolls. Maybe a hyena ate a couple dead gnolls and maybe a priest/priestess victim...whatever holiness remained in that corpse altered the process and one of the new gnolls that popped out was significantly smarter than your average gnoll and independent minded, without the link to Yeenoghu. ....or it ate a wizard with magic items in its pockets....or ate a druid with some fancy seeds in its pocket...or whatever.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Here is a legal playable gnoll, utilizing custom lineage. I quote it from an other thread.
Until a more exact feat becomes officially available for the gnoll custom lineage, there are official feats that can already work as approximations.
Here is a Custom Lineage for a gnoll that utilizes an official feat and is legal.
GNOLL
Medium humanoid (gnoll, beast, hyena, fiend, demon)
+2 Strength score.
Speed 30.
Darkvision.
Languages. Common, Abyssal (Gnoll dialect).
FERAL FEROCITY (Tavern Brawler feat)
+1 Strength or Constitution score.
Crushing Bite. Melee unarmed strike. 1d4 + Strength bludgeoning damage (or improvised piercing damage).
Lockjaw. If your bite hits, you can use your bonus action to try grapple. Typically you bite the throat of your prey and lock on until your prey is dead.
Carcass Weaponry. Melee or ranged weapon attack. 1d4 + Strength bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage. Gnolls often use the bones and other bodyparts of slain corpses as effective improvised weapons.
he / him
DM's Guild have an Ebberon Expanded book or you can download the pdf there is a Gnoll Race section in there it has a stat block and racial abilities just like any official DND book
This is my biggest problem with gnolls in 5e - they shouldn't be humanoids. Humanoid as a type implies that they're "people" much like other humanoids, capable of a variety of emotions and cultures, but their description is 100% in line with the Fiend type. IMO, anything that can have the humanoid type should be on the table for player options and relatable on the "human" level - hence why spells like "charm person", which rely on human-like minds, work. Anything else should be a different type.
People always seem to think Hyenas are Canines, they’re in fact more closely related to cats than dogs but they’re actually neither. Hyenas fall into their own genus Crocuta and their are only five extant members of that genus. The spotted hyena (the hyena everyone thinks of) the striped hyena, the brown hyena, the Hyaeninae, and the Aardwolf. All of them are classified as subfamilies of the family Hyaenidae which is the only family still living within the genus Crocuta.
I actually made a homebrew race for gnolls. It’s very basic but here is the Free Gnoll.
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Spells, Monsters, Magic Items, Feats, Subclasses.
I am an Archfey, but nobody seems to notice.
Extended Signature
Aardwolves are members of the subfamily Protelinae, not Hyaenidae. And only the spotted hyena is a member of genus Corcuta. There's only four extant species in the hyena family, not five.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Gnolls/Hyenas are actually felines, not canines.
But cats can be mans best friend too! without cats, we'd have ben overrun by rats centuries ago
Hyenas are Feliforms, not felines. That just means that they're more closely related to cats than to dogs, not that they're cats themselves. They're about as closely related to mongooses and civets as they are to felines, but they're in a taxonomic family by themselves.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
still, they're not canines, is what I'm getting at
And rabbits are rodents. - point being there’s always exceptions (and pretty much every character is one)
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
They ARE people, though. Their creator was a fiend, but that doesn't mean ALL of them have to act like fiends.
Culturally, they are very nomadic and tribal, and many prefer the wilderness to the sorts of civilization that other races like humans and elves and dwarves might live in. But not all of them. Gnolls as a whole have a strong affinity for family and blood ties, as well. They CARE about their families, and their friends, and will even go to war with other gnoll clans who threaten them.
Gnolls are not necessarily evil. They just all suffer from a very primal need to hunt and fight that tends to make them lean towards or be influenced by evil, or chaotic paths. But they are capable of being able to conquer and learn to control those primal urges, and even become pacifists who only fight or hunt for survival or sport.
They are just as capable of being mandalorian-esque noble warriors as they are of being primal, bloodthirsty savages who just want to slaughter everything around them.
Rabbits aren't rodents.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.